While waiting for proper matchmaking: force solo queue in PvP

pando83

I noticed that the premade or half premade vs pug number of matches is increasing. Can barely find a real pug v pug match.
Needless to say, this greatly increase the % of 1 sided matches greatly, on top of a system that does nothing to balance teams.

So, while we wait for a proper matchmaking and a pre v pre system, i would ask to the devs to modify the current system and allow people to queue for PvP only when they are NOT in a Group.
Should not require much work to do it.

Sorry for guilds, but you guys really ruin PvP when you go with full premades or, in some cases, half premades (3+ guildies in the same team). For 2 simple factors:

- a full premade or even a half premade means more organized teamplay, and it's more likely that the match will become 1 sided.

- a full or half premade means that it's more likely for well geared player to end up together in the same team (considering it's easier for a guild to make dungeon runs than it is for a lone wolf).

Take it as a chance to challenge your guildies when you end up in opposite teams.

But really, just to start, at least devs free us from the premade or half premade vs pug, plague.

chocobofarmer

What's wrong? I thought being killed in 1 second by a synchronized swimming team of tenebrous users while four of your 8k gs teammates are dying to a single sentinel halfway across the map was the epitome of fun. I think people who complain about the pvp system should always be made to face premades by the queue system, this will increase their enjoyment of the game, and most importantly, it may encourage them to buy zen so they can compete in pvp. Doesn't this make you salivate, cryptic?

pers3phone

Yeah man how do you dare try to spoil the funz of paying customers, hmmpf.

(btw you should see our full-casual guild "premades" sometimes with people in blues, sometimes with tanks squishier than my CW and none of us having pvP spec/gear etc. :P We can still roflstomp most guys minus PvP people just cause they know what to do and where to go, but it's still lulzy).

pando83

You said it: even a casual guild, when forming a premade with low geared people, can be more organized and effective than a pug. Now, when the guild is geared just even a bit, you can already see why a half premade already has a huge advantage. Going full pug in PvP you can, and usually get, bots and people in blue/ green that just hit 60 and have no experience in PvP. Also, it's rare to find someone that actually knows how to be useful to the team. They just rush to points and chase enemies forever just to get a kill.

When you already start with 3 geared, or experienced (or both) players in your team, you already have a huge advantage.

Not to mention full premades.

You can be lucky and end up with a strong team vs a mediocre premade and win, but it's very, very rare.

I find harder every day to get in a real pug v pug. 8 times out of ten it's against a half premade with 3 people from same guild, or against a full premade. And it usually ends up in a ****ty match where your team gets beaten up 400-40, then someone leave the match, then your only options are to

- quit
- get swarmed
- camp in spawn

I hate to say it, and i usually never quit a match, but people should just quit the match when they see a premade or a half premade, to send a message to the devs that PvP must be fixed. Right now, going to queue for a pug PvP match is just a waste of time. Today i got 2 real pug v pug matches out of may be 15 i joined. All the rest were with my pug against a full premade, a half premade, and even got a 2+2 ( may be allied guilds).

Forcing people to actually queue ALONE for pug PvP, could be a start. Then you can ask for a premade vs premade system, and then you can go for penalties to quitters.
May be guilds started to go premade or half-premade more often to farm glory to get the raven skull artifact, but i noticed a huge increase of this plague in pug PvP.

abell39

Maybe a solution would be to split the queue in two -- one that only accepts single-player entries, and one that only accepts groups of 2+.

swarfega27

Edit ** stupid server gave me an error ** double post

swarfega27

Mass quitting still happens after the first death in a true pug v pug too. I got lols for anyone who believes a solo que will fix it.
If it wont fix it i dont think a partial fix out weighs <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over allowing friends to group up.

pando83

swarfega27 wrote: »

Mass quitting still happens after the first death in a true pug v pug too. I got lols for anyone who believes a solo que will fix it.
If it wont fix it i dont think a partial fix out weighs <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over allowing friends to group up.

Sure thing is that having 80% of guilds joining as premade or half premade, just increase the % of unbalanced matches and consequent quits.
It's not a definitive fix, but it's fast and better than nothing, until they make a proper system. Anyway, forcing solo queue for pug PvP would be needed even with a separated premade PvP system, to prevent guilds from going premade into the pug PvP.
Also, on top of this, the game should scramble and rebalance teams when the score difference is above 200.

But, for now, i think that solo queue would at least get rid of that part of unbalanced matches caused by organized groups joining PvP.
Would solve everything? No.
Would improve the situation? Yes. At least you don't have to worry about ending up against a premade or half premade team, with your full pug team.

gctrl

swarfega27 wrote: »

Mass quitting still happens after the first death in a true pug v pug too. I got lols for anyone who believes a solo que will fix it.
If it wont fix it i dont think a partial fix out weighs <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over allowing friends to group up.

^ This.

Pugs quit against Pugs all the time, probably more so than against premades because the ratio of Pug vs Pug is greater than Pre vs Pug. I solo q every day and I would say that more than half the time, someone on the other team leaves, it becomes 4v5 and then the rest follow suit.

I will also say that it is entirely possible to beat premades sometimes. In many instances I've beaten a full premade while only being solo q'd or q'd with one/two other people.

Just let everyone do what they want for now, if you find yourself in a premade and you're smashing a pug, do what LS does and just start 1v1s until the match ends.

At this point in time the real problem with PvP is that there is no ranking system or organized queue system. And yes, leavers are another big problem, because most of them give up without even trying. There needs to be some kind of forfeit system as well as penalties for just bailing on a game in the first few minutes.

chocobofarmer

I don't think people should be punished for leaving, they should give good reward for losing. One major reason people will leave when their team is being dominated is because if they don't score at least 300 points, the amount of glory they get will be pitiful. By making the losing team gain more glory than the winning team, people will gladly stay and pvp.

gctrl

chocobofarmer wrote: »

I don't think people should be punished for leaving, they should give good reward for losing. One major reason people will leave when their team is being dominated is because if they don't score at least 300 points, the amount of glory they get will be pitiful.

And so does the winning team, if either side doesn't get a certain amount of points it greatly diminishes the glory earnings of BOTH teams.

chocobofarmer wrote: »

By making the losing team gain more glory than the winning team, people will gladly stay and pvp.

Lol, that would just start to defeat the entire purpose of there being a winner and loser in the first place.

ikeepit3hunna

I stomp mediocre premades solo all the time. Maybe u ppl should join a decent guild that has ppl online so u can be the premade ppl? U know like try to be good instead of complaining that u want results without effort

melodywhr

when a pvp match falls apart by someone quitting, what i don't understand is why the winning team will still go after and gang-bust individuals trying to cap nodes for points. if everyone plays merry-go-round in a dead pvp match, everybody wins.

ikeepit3hunna

Premades aren't there for glory. Their there to kill ppl

melodywhr

well you can't force people to leave the spawn area or stay in an unbalanced match. might as well earn some rAD.

ayroux

melodywhr wrote: »

well you can't force people to leave the spawn area or stay in an unbalanced match. might as well earn some rAD.

Honestly in light of a real matchmaking system, we cant really do much.

OP is wrong in that premades ruin pvp, I would HIGHLY suggest that undergeared 5k GS players are the ones that ruin pvp. I cant tell you how many times I have qued with a friend, or two, only to get paired with either a bot or 5k GS TR or CW (class irrelevant) just to have that person go 0-20 in the match, its basically a 4v5 in that scenario.


Now, one REALLY easy way to "temporarily fix" this issue would be,

Create an "achievement" that you get when you unlock 8300+ GS when your allowed to ENTER T2 dungeons.

Once this achievement is unlocked, you are no longer able to que for <8300 GS pvp.

This separates the T2 PVP+ from the T1/just hit 60 PVP. Or even heck, the achievement system is already in place in the expansion, just make it so if you equip ANY T2 set piece it auto pushes you up to higher pvp. I like the first idea.

That would help alot, not fix all the problems, but help alot.



Short of a true matchmaking system though, this will never get fixed. I would love to punish leavers and love to see no true "safe zone" in pvp either, but inorder for any of that you HAVE to get equally geared/skilled matchmaking....

ikeepit3hunna

Should be a solo que and group que tbh. Would fix most issues

josiahiyon

Another "solution" along the same line of thought: require 5-man parties to queue. This would also remove the premade vs pug or partial premade vs pug problem.

See what I did there?

Note that I don't think the above idea or the OP ideas are good.

melodywhr

well first of all, while it may be the unspoken truth, it must be stated that not all games have quitters and some games actually finish with all ten players. some pug games, you can't 1v1 with people because there might be someone in the group that doesn't speak the same language and as soon as one person from the crippled team comes around, they start attacking... even though you've stated your intent. and some people disable zone chat and the say channel because some people can get pretty passionate in pvp... so there's another potential issue.

but even if they incorporate a better matchmaking system, i still don't see cryptic/pwe implementing any kind of penalty for forfeiting a pvp match. because if they did that, they'd have to punish people for quitting dungeons before the boss is dead as well... wouldn't they? and keeping people from playing their game is a bit counter productive. because... you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. think about all the 'i quit' posts that have happened in the history of these forums. forget for a moment that these posts are against the forum rules of conduct. what if all of these people were banned for quitting? maybe they wouldn't care. maybe they were quitting because the ranger was taking too long but now that the ranger is about to be released, they want to come back... but oh... they're banned for quitting. as a company, do you want to drive your customers away or do you want them to play your game?

so the point is... while people quitting pvp matches sucks, you just gotta queue for the next pvp match. and the next one after that. and the next one. or whatever your play style is. because no one is going to tell you how you play your game, what makes you think that you can tell someone else how to enjoy pvp? you can't. because they're not you. as it's been said before in other threads just like this one... a penalty undermines the sole reason why we're all here... and that is to have fun. if we're not having fun, we're doing it wrong.

manholio

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

Should be a solo que and group que tbh. Would fix most issues

Agreed. Solo queue is a great idea. I wouldn't want to punish players who enjoy queueing pre-mades though.