I am sick to see ppl calling out nerf before the **** thing is live. If you call out for nerf, go after the rangers. They have 6-8 dodge-like abilitys, insane crit, and lower cool down when crit, and so many other OP powers. Wait until the changes are implemented, test it with some premade v premade matches, and you will see how these new builds perform. I have several interesting build in my mind re my GWF, but will they work? will they work as well as my current setup? NO ONE KNOWS before you test it against well geared, well played premades. The atomosphere here is just sickening.
im not sure where it said anything about a nerf in this thread all that was being pointed out was the insane capabilities the iron vanguard path brings to the table for GWF sents, aslo why sacrafice bravery couldnt you run bravery and ferocious reaction? and even still if you want to you could switch out tenes for higher rank darks which i find more beneficial anyway with the upcoming changes. also on a side note thats what the preview server is for to find out this stuff and possibly change it before it goes live so it doesnt become game breaking and then take another 3-6 months before it gets fixed
and yes ranger class has insane dodges if you make a halfling ranger coupled with feats your sitting on 16% deflection alone before items boons artifacts ext. thats crazy but again its preview so things may or may not be toned down
One this is for sure. Unrefutable even...GWF'S are getting the better deal on this whole Paragon swapping ordeal. Losing Frontline Surge, Trample the Fallen and Indomitable Strength, for relatively weak single target abilities....an no gap closing capabilities other than Lunging Strike (on the slowest moving class in the game mind you). If you show me a single GF Swordmaster if this all goes live, then I will show you an idiot. If he is by some miracle successful with the build...then I will show you a **** genius. There is no in between.
The preview server is for bug identification I would think, as for OP'ness of a certain build / class, truth is there is not that many premade vs premade in the preview server to even suggest which build is OP / unkillable. So at this stage, to even suggest a nerf to a build that no one has tested yet, or an outcry on how tanky a tank class may perform is just not right. I can come up with several builds with the new paragon path, and I expect them to work well; however all class get new paragon / new powers, are gwf so tanky and scary that all these new powers are useless against gwf?
Truth be told, I am afraid these changes will actually do more harm to GWF than good, simply because of the perception of a unkillable machine which may become FotM and muddy the water where I had great fun for the last 5 months.
One this is for sure. Unrefutable even...GWF'S are getting the better deal on this whole Paragon swapping ordeal. Losing Frontline Surge, Trample the Fallen and Indomitable Strength, for relatively weak single target abilities....an no gap closing capabilities other than Lunging Strike (on the slowest moving class in the game mind you). If you show me a single GF Swordmaster if this all goes live, then I will show you an idiot. If he is by some miracle successful with the build...then I will show you a **** genius. There is no in between.
A GF in my guild just told me last night, with the AP generation capability of his GF, he can build up daily really fast, and he will slot the steel defence class feature to get his 5 sec immunity every 10-15 sec (no sure how he does it for fast AP generation, he is the expert on his GF obviously), so I dont know, maybe some new builds will make the GF a 2nd unkillable machine?
yeah seems gf forgot about steel defense.
gf gets ap gain from Con, which for pvp is very good.
i told about this build to m y mates the moment i saw the paragon thing on. I am just laughing that everyone scared of gwfs.
not to mention how gwf are supposed to kill a good tr or a good cleric with all these changes.
good luck all harassing gwfs lol
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
A GF in my guild just told me last night, with the AP generation capability of his GF, he can build up daily really fast, and he will slot the steel defence class feature to get his 5 sec immunity every 10-15 sec (no sure how he does it for fast AP generation, he is the expert on his GF obviously), so I dont know, maybe some new builds will make the GF a 2nd unkillable machine?
For PvE that may certainly work. I've already tested this type of build on the PTR and it's too slow getting action points in PvP. We also played a couple inhouse premades with one of our GWFs using Iron Vanguard and it's just ridiculous.
GF gains almost nothing in PvP from the paragon swap. They lose maneuverability, damage, AoE and prone time from Frontline. GWF not only gets all these but they even get the GF mark ability via Threatening Rush. GFs already have the worse tab ability, being just to mark a target, and now GWFs can do it with no effort. How about giving GFs Unstoppable (joking) or giving them some sort of useful tab ability and then we're getting somewhere.
All the GFs in our guild are pretty much resigned to playing other characters once this patch goes live as we're predicting that GFs will offer little to nothing in PvP over the Iron Vanguard GWF. This paragon swap was an extremely lazy and not a very well thought out thing for Cryptic to do.
For PvE that may certainly work. I've already tested this type of build on the PTR and it's too slow getting action points in PvP. We also played a couple inhouse premades with one of our GWFs using Iron Vanguard and it's just ridiculous.
GF gains almost nothing in PvP from the paragon swap. They lose maneuverability, damage, AoE and prone time from Frontline. GWF not only gets all these but they even get the GF mark ability via Threatening Rush. GFs already have the worse tab ability, being just to mark a target, and now GWFs can do it with no effort. How about giving GFs Unstoppable (joking) or giving them some sort of useful tab ability and then we're getting somewhere.
All the GFs in our guild are pretty much resigned to playing other characters once this patch goes live as we're predicting that GFs will offer little to nothing in PvP over the Iron Vanguard GWF. This paragon swap was an extremely lazy and not a very well thought out thing for Cryptic to do.
Thought I was the only one who could see the dramatic changes here. Finally, someone with real GF credentials steps in!
On top of your comment, players have to still to understand that this "fusion" has very strong balancing implications. So, it is not even that GF will remain relatively static, with nothing really added and nothing removed - no matter how carefully balanced it may be now.
I am sorely tempted to finally make a GWF since Cryptic have waited so late in the annual schedule to start getting feedback on these things, I cannot see how they will be able to tune this properly. GWF will hit with these changes come what may and they will change sharply, at minimum, the PvP landscape, which was already GWF's strongest backyard.
For PvE that may certainly work. I've already tested this type of build on the PTR and it's too slow getting action points in PvP. We also played a couple inhouse premades with one of our GWFs using Iron Vanguard and it's just ridiculous.
GF gains almost nothing in PvP from the paragon swap. They lose maneuverability, damage, AoE and prone time from Frontline. GWF not only gets all these but they even get the GF mark ability via Threatening Rush. GFs already have the worse tab ability, being just to mark a target, and now GWFs can do it with no effort. How about giving GFs Unstoppable (joking) or giving them some sort of useful tab ability and then we're getting somewhere.
All the GFs in our guild are pretty much resigned to playing other characters once this patch goes live as we're predicting that GFs will offer little to nothing in PvP over the Iron Vanguard GWF. This paragon swap was an extremely lazy and not a very well thought out thing for Cryptic to do.
i see.
we still have to see how it will be when on live. I am sure a lot of things will change.
I will try the new paragon for pvp on live, but I am not so sure if i will swapp. I may get survivality...
but the only way this new paragon works effective that i can see right now is to sacrifice some damage stuff, and even student of sword. which sometimes is a big deal. I am not so sure if a "clericgwf" that cannot kill anyone would be that good after all. so we still have to see how things going to be.
gwf without bravery lose great deal of deflect and is more easy to kite, and if remove weapon master, well there you go half of killing power and some more deflect...
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
A GF in my guild just told me last night, with the AP generation capability of his GF, he can build up daily really fast, and he will slot the steel defence class feature to get his 5 sec immunity every 10-15 sec (no sure how he does it for fast AP generation, he is the expert on his GF obviously), so I dont know, maybe some new builds will make the GF a 2nd unkillable machine?
the way i can see steel defence working is if you have a GF using the tactician tree and the heroic feat to gain AP while blocking and the paragon feat to give ap under 50% health and the last point in tactician where everytime your hit you gain AP thus making steel defence worthwhile a 5 sec immune though isnt enough to make me want to switch to swordmaster and lose all our good abilities.
the way i can see steel defence working is if you have a GF using the tactician tree and the heroic feat to gain AP while blocking and the paragon feat to give ap under 50% health and the last point in tactician where everytime your hit you gain AP thus making steel defence worthwhile a 5 sec immune though isnt enough to make me want to switch to swordmaster and lose all our good abilities.
stell grace I think is amazing for gf too since they have a low mobility...
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Depending on AP generation GF in pve can become a beast with steel defense + Knight's Valor and Fighter Recovery if u need. Cant test but a rotation of shield with steel defense might make u almost immune to dmg. Pvp atm is a mess, I see no point as a solo player to make a tanky build, reason is that in pugs is usually more easy to carry as a high dps then a tank and if by any chance i;ll encounter a high tanky premade is just no reason to stay, pvp as premade usually is nothing else but sitting idle on a node and read forums or inspect ah while u wont gain anything of value.
well after more testing if this goes live in it's current state i will be shelfing my GF in favor of the iron vanguard sent gwf nothing funnier than watching a whole team try and kill you theres nothing to theorize you can all test it out for yourself. just slot ferocious reaction and bravery and feat accordingly you can even get past 30% dmg bonus with feats and determination and trample fallen if you decide to take it over bravery otherwise your still looking at 15% constant dmg bonus with threatening rush
also get your perfect soulforges ready for this party.
well, we have different ideas of what is good or useless.
steel grace helped me prevail against matches where the opponent team had more number of cws/gfs.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Comments
and yes ranger class has insane dodges if you make a halfling ranger coupled with feats your sitting on 16% deflection alone before items boons artifacts ext. thats crazy but again its preview so things may or may not be toned down
Truth be told, I am afraid these changes will actually do more harm to GWF than good, simply because of the perception of a unkillable machine which may become FotM and muddy the water where I had great fun for the last 5 months.
A GF in my guild just told me last night, with the AP generation capability of his GF, he can build up daily really fast, and he will slot the steel defence class feature to get his 5 sec immunity every 10-15 sec (no sure how he does it for fast AP generation, he is the expert on his GF obviously), so I dont know, maybe some new builds will make the GF a 2nd unkillable machine?
gf gets ap gain from Con, which for pvp is very good.
i told about this build to m y mates the moment i saw the paragon thing on. I am just laughing that everyone scared of gwfs.
not to mention how gwf are supposed to kill a good tr or a good cleric with all these changes.
good luck all harassing gwfs lol
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
For PvE that may certainly work. I've already tested this type of build on the PTR and it's too slow getting action points in PvP. We also played a couple inhouse premades with one of our GWFs using Iron Vanguard and it's just ridiculous.
GF gains almost nothing in PvP from the paragon swap. They lose maneuverability, damage, AoE and prone time from Frontline. GWF not only gets all these but they even get the GF mark ability via Threatening Rush. GFs already have the worse tab ability, being just to mark a target, and now GWFs can do it with no effort. How about giving GFs Unstoppable (joking) or giving them some sort of useful tab ability and then we're getting somewhere.
All the GFs in our guild are pretty much resigned to playing other characters once this patch goes live as we're predicting that GFs will offer little to nothing in PvP over the Iron Vanguard GWF. This paragon swap was an extremely lazy and not a very well thought out thing for Cryptic to do.
Thought I was the only one who could see the dramatic changes here. Finally, someone with real GF credentials steps in!
On top of your comment, players have to still to understand that this "fusion" has very strong balancing implications. So, it is not even that GF will remain relatively static, with nothing really added and nothing removed - no matter how carefully balanced it may be now.
I am sorely tempted to finally make a GWF since Cryptic have waited so late in the annual schedule to start getting feedback on these things, I cannot see how they will be able to tune this properly. GWF will hit with these changes come what may and they will change sharply, at minimum, the PvP landscape, which was already GWF's strongest backyard.
we still have to see how it will be when on live. I am sure a lot of things will change.
I will try the new paragon for pvp on live, but I am not so sure if i will swapp. I may get survivality...
but the only way this new paragon works effective that i can see right now is to sacrifice some damage stuff, and even student of sword. which sometimes is a big deal. I am not so sure if a "clericgwf" that cannot kill anyone would be that good after all. so we still have to see how things going to be.
gwf without bravery lose great deal of deflect and is more easy to kite, and if remove weapon master, well there you go half of killing power and some more deflect...
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
the way i can see steel defence working is if you have a GF using the tactician tree and the heroic feat to gain AP while blocking and the paragon feat to give ap under 50% health and the last point in tactician where everytime your hit you gain AP thus making steel defence worthwhile a 5 sec immune though isnt enough to make me want to switch to swordmaster and lose all our good abilities.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
also get your perfect soulforges ready for this party.
This is a useless class feature.
steel grace helped me prevail against matches where the opponent team had more number of cws/gfs.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
dose not work so great in pvp only 150 dps from sure strike and 1k+ from encounter on tanks