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Is Castle Never Really Suppose To Be Played This Way?
mrvincent1959
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
I joined a PUG to play CN and it was really frustrating. They play all these tricks where you don't really even fight that much. I ended up leaving because I can't jump too well and the game became like a platformer from the old PS2 days.
Can CN be beat legit, or is this the way it really works? I mean the environment looks really cool and I would love to play it.
On another note, why does the map allow you to find all these alternate ways to get around without fighting? I am sure the developers know this stuff exists!
Can CN be beat legit, or is this the way it really works? I mean the environment looks really cool and I would love to play it.
On another note, why does the map allow you to find all these alternate ways to get around without fighting? I am sure the developers know this stuff exists!
twitch.tv/kaligold
Post edited by mrvincent1959 on
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from already thank everyone's attention.
In the reference MMO, WoW, some players from the world-leading Paragon Dream guild were banned by the editor for using platform tactics.
Different editors, different ethics.
Can't agreed more. I, too, am weak at jumping with my toon, thus I stopped doing any PvE Epic dungeons. I only do PvP now.
Ebony (Whisperknife)
I want to ask this, are you a Halfling? The reason I asked this is because I have 1 Halfling TR and 1 Half-Elven DC. I find it much easier to do the jumps with my Half-Elven DC compared to my Halfling TR. Did anyone ever experienced this? Or is this just me who feels like halflings can jump less then other races? I begin to regret I ever created a halfling at this stage of game. Almost every epic dungeon have a jump exploit in this game and halfling race seems to me lacking in jumping ability.
Moreover, I know this isn't the subject of this treat but after leveling 2 x lvl 60 and gearing them to certian extend. I begin to get bored of this game as there is nothing to do when dd isn't active. When dd isn't active only certain people farms CN over and over again with all kind of exploit, due to running other dungeons being considerably less rewarding. As there is no real challange in exploit running the same Dungeon over and over again. And since not a single soul in my server run CN without exploits, it becomes very boring after sometime. Many people I used to play with either quit the game or only come online for dds if they ever come online.
What they really need to do is add more Skirmishes to the list for level 60s to play.
Got it from a trash mob in a Foundry mission.
Trash mobs do drop items of value.
Most people exploit this game because they enjoy exploits and because they want the contents of the dungeon delves chest or boss loot, or they simply want to farm.
I have played other games (co-op games) in which some players exploit simply to get an achievement or high score.
If Crpytic increases the rewards for killing mobs, then exploiters will continue to bypass mobs during dungeon delves and begin farming mobs during non-dungeon delves. The only solution is to fix the dungeons, so that exploiting/cheating is not possible.
Edit: just sold three more rank 4 dark enchantments for 8900 AD. That's 2966 AD per enchantment !!
best way is to submit a bug report by pressing the H button and follow the menus. The exploits i have reported was fixed fast (within 1 week)
Wow, you made almost as much as someone can from just invoking and running leadership missions in PE....wait were you trying to say that was worth something?
1. Yes, mobs drop valuable loot. Exploiters and dungeon delves farmers will deny this, of course.
They need an excuse to justify their exploits.
2. Players can run leadership missions and kill mobs simultaneously, and also invoke when a campfire is near. My current leadership skill is level 15. It's not easy for me to earn 2700 AD in less than a few hours, by only doing leadership missions and invoking. Are you suggesting that mob loot should be as valuable as doing leadership missions and invoking? How much AD (or other rewards) do you think players should earn by killing mobs?
Edit: just got another rank 4 dark enchantment (and 2 rank 4 azure's) while doing a foundry mission ... and these foundry mobs are easy to kill with my lvl 60 CW.
No, they don't. 5k AD is not valuable and perhaps even more important is that while yes, enchants drop, getting them from the dungeon trash is such a tiny fraction of the input of enchants that its meaningless noise. The fastest way (outside of buying from PWE or a botter) to get enchants is by farming nodes or running mass AoE Foundry missions.
I personally would like to see spawns in dungeons drop things not found in other drops. A _chance_ for rare crafting items, wards, and rank 5 enchants would probably be enough to change most people's behavior. The exact chance could be tweaked based on stats from the game to balance player interest with time spent and over abundance of items dropped.
This would also lessen the desire that most players have to knock as many mobs off cliffs as possible, since the items would go with them.
Every dungeon has exploits. Pvp maps both gauntlgrym and normal have exploits.
botting is rampant and they do nothing, etc et al.
I do seriously doubt it matters to them.
5k AD is the value of some gear found in boss drops and dungeon delve chests. If 5k AD is not valuable, then many T1 gear items are also not valuable. What do you expect? 25-50k AD item drop from a random mob? That would be ridiculous in my opinion.
Players will still knock mobs off cliffs during dungeon delves. Why? because their goal is to get boss loot and DD chest, not mob loot. After dungeon delves is finished, they will farm mobs. Your suggestions have some merit, however your suggestions could also cause an increase in farming mobs. If the rare mob drops were bind on pickup, then that would curtail the farmers but some players would be upset.
rank 4 are already dropping. not really a need for rank 5. they could tweak the rank 4 drop rate a little, but I think it's close to ok right now. Note: if the drop rate on these rare items is extremely rare, people will continue to avoid killing mobs. As a CW, I throw mobs off cliffs mainly for survival, and not because I hate killing mobs (I enjoy killing mobs). I prefer to group the mobs in a small circle and let GWF's cut them down, but some players (including myself) can't survive huge mobs or are unable to effectively damage large mobs, so instead sometimes I kick them off. If mobs dropped rare items, I would still throw them off. Mobs are unlimited. You can always farm them at a later time, by yourself or with a farming party.
5k is the value of some of the crappy and or commonly dropped sets. I stated what I thought was reasonable and its not a single 25k item, but things that are vastly over valued because the only source today is from the Zen store as well as rank 5 enchants.
Specifically mobs in epic dungeons and NOT normal world spawns, solo instances, Foundry instances, or non-epic dungeons is where I'd have the "nicer" drop table for normal mobs. I don't doubt that farming the beginning of dungeons would be tried, but it would be relatively simple to make that difficult by just making the initial spawns sized for a party of 5. Farming at scale is, in all the games I've played, inherently a solo activity. I'm not saying that teams can't farm, but the impact of team farming compared to solo farming is extremely small since getting a group together that has to share rewards from doing a boring repetitive task is hard especially since its not XP related.
You propose that epic dungeon mobs drop items of the same (or greater) value which are found in some boss drops and in some dungeons delves chests.
That seems like a dangerous idea to me. Why kill the boss if mobs will drop items of similiar or greater value? Why not only kill mobs? After a player gets the special item he wants from a dungeon, why do a full run of the same dungeon again? Of course, many players play mainly for fun and not for rewards, and their behavior will not be greatly affected by changing rewards for killing mobs. My questions are in regards to players who play mainly for mob/boss rewards.
personal story ....
During a previous event (bag of bones, savage enchantments) ....
I spent almost all my playtime in Protector's Enclave and almost no time doing dungeons or anything else. Why?
1. I enjoyed the event because it was something new and different and temporary.
2. The loot was good ... so good that I stopped caring about anything else for a while. At the time, I was only level 45-49 CW, and did not have access to epic dungeons and epic boss loot.
If mob loot is very good, people will stop doing other things, and instead just start killing mobs. Then, repeat dungeon to kill more mobs. killing dungeon boss would be optional.
Not to wax into economics, but keep in mind that "value" is a flexible thing. Observe that drops from Karrundax, which was arguably the most farmed T2, have already begun to creep up in price with increased difficulty of having to fight the mini-bosses in their proper location. Having said that, I am proposing that items that drop nowhere in the game HAVE A CHANCE to be dropped from trash spawns. Specifically things that are currently only available in profession packs. I don't think it would be bad for the economy, in fact I think it would be very healthy, for green crafting items to be more available. The percentage chance could be trivially modified if the drop rates proved to be too generous as they could be tweaked if players kept simply skipping all the spawns.
Just because some tier 1 set items are only valued at 5k currently doesn't mean that they are an even swap. What happens if average dungeon runs take longer? Fewer boss drops. If the norm becomes that pugs don't simply choose the fastest way to score a chest during delves then the pricing we see today would be completely invalidated.
Again, different items and the value of boss drops would end up increasing because average dungeon run time would be longer.
This is true. It's also true that these new items (dropped from mobs) will lose value in the auction house, especially due to farming. If the cost of these new items (whatever they may be) decrease too much, some people will prefer to buy them (at a low price) on the AH, instead of killing mobs in dungeons.
When I run a dungeon and there is a pop-up on my screen (need, greed, or pass), my decision is partially based on the auction house value of that item. If that item is inexpensive on the auction house, I am more likely to choose greed or pass, since I don't want non-valuable items filling up limited inventory space. If these new items dropped from mobs are cheap on the AH, then they will have little effect on my gameplay.
Good job bro! Give yourself a pat on the back!
While you're farming up those chump change, botters are farming full stacks of enchants on multiple accounts without having to do anything, and the people that knows how to play this game are getting 1-2 mil AD from a 45 min CN run.
Exploiters don't need an excuse for exploiting. Why the hell would anyone need an excuse to do something in a video game? Maybe in another 6 months you'll have the gear and skills to be able to do CN. Do come back and tell us how much fun it was to kill all the trash mobs and how much AD you made from them.
People who defend exploitation on this forum need an excuse to promote their agenda on this forum, if they want neverwinter staff to seriously listen to them. The common excuse on this forum is ... killing mobs is boring and/or unrewarding, therefore we exploit (skip mobs, speed run, ....)
I play NW mainly because I enjoy the combat and atmosphere and stories. Unlike you, I love killing mobs. Neverwinter is a hack-n-slash mob killing game. People who don't enjoy killing mobs should find another game to play. Imagine if people complained about killing mobs in Diablo, which is another hack-n-slash game. These games are based on killing mobs. It's the core gameplay, always has been that way.
I don't play Neverwinter mainly to farm. I was just pointing out that mobs do drop items of significant value (compared to some boss and DD chest loot). I play Foundry mission because I enjoy them. To me, the free enchants are simply a bonus. As for me, I am not interested in speed running or exploiting dungeons. Only dungeon I speed run in is Fardelvers because usually most players sit at the first camp until the second camp is active. They refuse to move or fight until the second camp is active. I can't kill every mob by myself and I'm not going to stand idle by a camp fire while someone else runs the dungeon for me. Either I speed run and terrain exploit, or I don't play Fardelver crypt. I tried to find non-speed Fardelver's crypt party but failed numerous times. Today, I was fortunate to fully run dwarf king crypt. Almost no one runs that dungeon because it's much harder to farm. It's sad that farmers seem to outnumber non-farmers.
CN boss has been able to bug since day 1, and now nearly every group that does CN will use this exploit, to make it easier.
I cant wait till they fix this, hoping it will change the current economy. Would also be great if they made DD BoP and made bosses drop T2 more frequently. only running dungeons during DD window is a bit shoddy mechanic.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I drop a lot of crafting materials from mobs during legit dungeon runs. Often white, sometimes green, blue can happen, and purple happens only during the profession event. I never have to worry about my crafting materials supplies, playing the game without exploits is more rewarding than most people think. I also have a lot of lvl 6-7 enchants i've fused myself. So i'm a bit amused by all your arguments.
Some mobs also drop a lot of silver. If you play dungeon proprely, you have:
- enchants
- crafting stuff
- you can loot nodes
- some copper (you don't need to farm anything else then)
It is valuable. I don't know what else you're expecting, mobs dropping 1000 refined ADs each maybe? Would it be enough for you? All exploiters can do is showing their ignorance of game mechanics and their lack of gaming skills, if it's taking "too long". Of course every pack isn't as valuable as the last boss and it's definitely something anyone with a brain should expect. If "valuable" drops drop too often it stops being valuable.
Yep. Hope they fix this stuff soon. Also hope that they make CN shorter (or drastically reduce the number of mobs, if a regular kill-all run really takes three hours). It might be nice if trash in high-end dungeons had a very very small chance of dropping something worthwhile too. Or hey, how about we scrap the green drops in Epic Dungeons altogether, and replace them with rank 4-5 enchants?
Anyway, my problem with the skip-everything culture in high-level PvE these days is that even in random-queued PuGs you'll get one or two people who wanna do even easy dungeons that way. They just assume that it's the smart (or cool) thing to do, even when the rest of the group isn't on the same page. If I had a nickel for every time one of my PuGs ended up wasting time because one or two people decided to do something cute and it didn't work out, I'd be rich.
Most of the time, it's easier and faster just to kill stuff normally.
I don't judge people who take guild groups through dungeons as quickly as possible; that's understandable. But in the average PuG? Spending a minute at the beginning of every fight dithering about where or if we're gonna pull the mobs and punt them isn't efficient, guys. Pulling a boss and twenty adds into a space so small that literally the entire floor is a red zone -- without telling anyone -- on the theory that future adds will spawn back in the first room ... there are no words.
I could go on, but I won't. Suffice to say that none of my PuGs have ever failed to complete an instance. Somehow the ones that try to be more efficient end up taking more time, though. I very much look forward to a time when both Cryptic and the general player base embrace playing the effing game as the main goal, rather than playing against the game.
Oh there are groups doing legit runs in fardelver's. There are many people not willing to exploit, they are just completely passive and follow the stream. I'm a bit more active. I play mostly with my DC, thus i'm ALWAYS party leader in fardelver's. I can kick anyone trying to rush and do it on a regular basis. If they don't agree i suggest them to leave and find another party.
Since exploiters have no respect for people enjoying the game, don't treat them like princes and kings. You can also kick their asses if you're willing to. It's, like most enjoy to say as an excuse for their poor behaviour and greed (saving a few RL copper coins selling drops, really), "an in-game feature". A PL can kick anyone, like anyone can run through invisible walls. And if it's there, why not using it?
Be amused all you want, but it would help more if you actually read what was posted. You're passive aggressive posting is also pretty transparent and not everyone who thinks dungeons should be both shorter in terms of trash (they're called that for good reasons) and more rewarding is an exploiter. I've got 2 60s, a 51, and two in 40's and none were done via foundry or other exploits. I've got 2 rank 8 enchants and the rest are 7s.
All that aside, the point was NOT crafting mats but crafting ASSETS.
Oh and go **** yourself.
Why should it take a long time and be a pita rather than taking a shorter amount of time but be more of a challenge?