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Pathfinder Online Kickstarter?!?
deathssickle
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
SO I found this yesterday guys while looking at the ads on my facebook page(as they track the sites you visit I have a lot of RPG/ DnD based ads) I decided to look and there I found a kickstarter for Pathfinder Online, a Pathfinder based MMO.
This game is made by Goblin Works, Is a paid membership, and is slated for 2016. I do not, from what I understood, find it anywhere near as appealing as Neverwinter Online but that is just me.(and maybe my love of Forgotten Realms)
I made a small mentioning of it on my blog today.(If you guys are willing I would appreciate it if yall would follow my blog. The web address is http://deathscrowbarsgamingandmods.blogspot.com)
The kickstarter link is here if yall want more info.
This game is made by Goblin Works, Is a paid membership, and is slated for 2016. I do not, from what I understood, find it anywhere near as appealing as Neverwinter Online but that is just me.(and maybe my love of Forgotten Realms)
I made a small mentioning of it on my blog today.(If you guys are willing I would appreciate it if yall would follow my blog. The web address is http://deathscrowbarsgamingandmods.blogspot.com)
The kickstarter link is here if yall want more info.
I am usually Deaths Crowbar.
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
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Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
NW FAQ | HCG NW Host Site
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Post edited by deathssickle on
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And I don't even think their goal is a good one. Why they'd take the Pathfinder IP and make an MMO that is about as far removed from Pathfinder RPG as an MMO could possibly be is beyond me. Pathfinder's strengths are published adventures (which translates to traditional "theme park" MMO), not open world PvP.
On the MMO game, I think it's innovative, and have more questions if a subscription model would survive over the game play model by the time they are done. We shall see.
Yeah I been looking at this one too and this was my thoughts as well, vaporware or will come out sometime in 2020 lol, another one I am looking at is Greed Monger but yeah I will not hold my breath . I seen too many indie projects look so promising to end up complete garbage
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Just peeked again... $415,340 more they've made? Really?? There is no idea how good or bad this game will be, or if it will ever even ship or even be developed. There are no guarantees at all. Just a pipe dream for the years 2017-2019 somewhere...
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Maybe my eyes have become jaded after all the NWO videos...
...The Pathfinder Project was our last, best hope for DnD, a self-contained world ......
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
psssst Aandre don't talk about people blowing their hard earned cash not knowing how good a game will be. *ducks before HoTN buyers fire up the torches*
As for whomever mentioned vaporware I figured neverwinter was headed that way given who was making it.
Agreed, actually they are very clueless about what's involved, the investment actually required and the resources necessary. They don't have a single decent programmer on staff, let alone someone familiar with running real technology projects.
And it's Ryan Dancey behind the wheel on this one, who doesn't exactly have a great track record with financial alacrity or keeping promises.
Note how it's largely branded Goblinworks and not Paizo.
I'd stay far away from this with your money, if at all possible.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
At least we can play City of Heroes 2 until 2016.
Skuli Ketilson (3.5 Character Sheet)
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Anyway, I hope these Kickstarter MMOGs succeed because I love to see successes in the genre, but until the model is proven, I would be very cautious. There is no harm, I suppose, kicking $100 over to a company you believe in and their project you love if you have the money, just do not be surprised if it never happens or falls very short. You will never catch me doing it unless the studio doing the project has a proven track record, good management, tons of experience, and a reasonable budget, goals, and timeline. Even then I would never expect to see a return, but it would be nice if I did.
As much as people rag on the large publishers, at least they put the resources towards making a great game and thus take the risk. The nice thing is that they also then can manage the studio properly, something I doubt most of these small studios can do themselves. As important as the actual development is, the managing of resources and the project from a business perspective is just as critical, if not more. Someone has to keep the thing on time and on budget, and when you hand a small studio a bag of money, who is doing this?
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Simply put- this looks like a remake of Darkfall so far. Will it have a market? Ya- but it's likely to be a small crowd of fiercely loyal, hardcore pvpers. There's pretty much nothing to make it remotely appealling to pvers and casuals- which is the deathknell of a game these days.
For the record, I happen to think this kickstarter project is a disaster as well. I'm truly looking for Paizo to gracefully get out of it next year. They are spending far too many resources just fulfilling their promises, rather than focusing on a brand that is currently kicking D&D in the rear.
It's a classic case of the dog with the bone staring into his reflection. Which I have to tell you has been Dancey's problem for a while. I say that recognizing he's brilliant, but his hubris does get the better of him.
But the above quote is not true.
I'm not sure anyone can play Pathfinder and call it "theme park", that makes absolutely no sense. Its like saying, "Wizard of Oz is superb film noir" or "this bacon is the best vegetable ever". Sorry, please help me understand what the heck you mean there.
The game is never going to get built. The only way it does is if they lure some major developer to make it for them. At which point its concept will likely completely change, because Dancey doesn't have a clue what sells in this industry. He's literally out of his element with this project, and I'll tell you that some people within Paizo secretly will tell you, they aren't very happy with this initiative because it is very big on hubris and bravado and very short on strategy and know how.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
I think UO was wonderfully successful, in its day, only its inability to update to 3D made it a footnote in history. Some awful changes came along years after it had already become obsolete, so I don't consider them a reason for failure.
On the other hand, you are all correct. It is painfully obvious that PFO is not likely to ever exist, or at least it will not live up to its current aspriations. But it's a good dream, and it doesn't hurt to keep trying!
I would have to say that most of my fond MMO memories happened in UO, and the reason is, it was the only game that really allowed those types of things to happen at all.
No rails, just a big wild west sand box where socializing counts for much more than loot and levels. That's what an MMO should be (IMHO)!
Skuli Ketilson (3.5 Character Sheet)
I played UO. I played it a lot, back when it was the only thing to play.
While UO belongs in the MMO Hall-of-Fame (for its wondrous avant-garde debut), UO's dirty secret was tha it was a really awful game, where bully guilds ruled, macros were everywhere and the grind was even duller than EQs. It was also probably the most spiteful place I've ever gamed. And proud of that bully culture too.
I'm glad it's a dodo.
But sandbox is more than the idea that you can not only kill others, but that you can steal all their gear they are carrying, or worse if you even advocate perma death, I think you'll attract a very small segment of gamers, and be pretty much destined to obscurity.
Sandbox means an actual sandbox, that you provide a very base world, with minimal hard coded content. NPCs don't really talk to you. There's no quests. There's nothing to do at default launch. But also as the name Sandbox implies, your players create your content and the culture for you. These days a Sandbox without UGC is bound to fail. Utterly. That's the part of the equation people forget about Sandbox, you must provide tools/methods for players to create content. By the way, this is what Pathfinder's initiative has promised to do.
EVE probably does the 'ePeen game" better than anyone, but even EVE isn't as mean as UO was. It also doesn't have real UGC. It also, like so many raw sandboxes involves HOURS of really dull exercises to survive. Mining planets, for hours is DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLL.
I mean UO had PvE spawns show up at specific places at very specific times. Guilds would camp them and not only harvest all the XP, but murder anyone who came close to join in on the fun.
Not to mention it was the land of "Tank Mages" because of a crappy skill system. UO was for so many of us, pretty miserable. It was replaced by bigger and better things and the market made it pretty clear, UO isn't really what the majority of gamers want.
Some do of course, which is totally, cool. But Permadeath has never caught on (despite everyone saying they'd love it), Permadeath guilds that form always cheat and make exceptions and while PVP servers exist in their own niche, they remain a niche and not mainstream.
I like how MMOs offer different play styles and cater to different taste, that's a good thing, but if you want to be mainstream, cater to mainstream, not some ePeen culture, that often doesn't show up in the numbers it contends to have. Really, I think the market is making it clear that draconian PVP games, are a sidebar, rather than the main course in the MMO market place.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
Pathfinder's biggest defining feature is its published modules. That's essentially the PnP analog of MMO "Theme Park" design.
Pathfinder can be played sandbox style, but in that regard it's basically the same as 3.5 (and most other RPGs).
The only times I have experienced anything remotely as engaging, have been on hardcore RP NWN & NWN2 servers.
And that kinda makes my point. It's perfectly "in character" (if you will) for Pathfinder devs to angle their MMO concept towards something that you would expect on a hardcore NWN2 server.
So in summary, more power to them. And, it will be a sad day when those who believe that an MMO can only flourish by using the same old formula as every other game, have their way.
Skuli Ketilson (3.5 Character Sheet)
As a Pathfinder player, I would say that its biggest defining feature would be its 'dramatically improving upon 3.5 to the point that anyone who has played it will cringe at the thought of playing 3.5 again'. And that is coming from someone who was a huge fan of 3.5.
Skuli Ketilson (3.5 Character Sheet)
Well first of all, modules don't define Pathfinder. That's like saying baseball cap sales define the NY Yankees.
And most modules are very open-ended and encourage all kinds of sandbox type play. Take a deep look at their best module series, it has all kinds of open plot-hooks, open RP hooks and encourages you all over its text to go off script. They aren't designed to play exactly the same way and they certainly not designed to have one specific outcome.
I agree PF is very similar to 3.5 (with some variation in things in some of the classes and some rules, particularly grappling/pummeling (vastly improved) and turning undead and healing (also vastly improved), and other base rules. But that's my point, it is an extension of a system designed to be the perfect sandbox, not a "theme park". 3.5 isn't sandbox, so the game that continued its design and philosophy certainly isn't either.
Sorry, but saying Pathfinder is Sandbox is INACCURATE to the point of either deception or ignorance, take your pick. A more closed design system like 4e is arguably more theme park, because it's not designed to bridge with any other system and is not designed to be modified or adjusted by the open source community.
This design philosophy of Pathfinder is clearly stated in the opening paragraph of Core Rules. The core of Pathfinder is to continue open source traditions, to provide a collaborative, open-ended system, that lets you build your own adventures/worlds to your precise taste. The very antithesis of theme park. By the way, modules are a tiny part of the brand's revenue stream. Modules aren't a lost leader, but they aren't extremely profitable either, (it's why Wizards abandoned them).
Back to the very specific topic of the MMO itself:
The MMO Kickstarter campaign is flawed because it begins with "give us some money, then we'll figure out how to do this", instead of "we've learned how to do this, now give us some money to finish it". It's the same as a group of people asking you to fund the production of their next CD/album, but they admit they can't play their instruments yet.
There's just too many ACTUAL video game developers, that need your money to finish their independent games to fund that kind of nonsense in my opinion.
If Paizo was asking for Kickstarter funds to do something they already knew how to do, I'd support them, because I love the company and I love their product.
I can tell you there's even some people in Paizo who will tell you off the record, they are not happy with this kickstarter campaign, or how its being managed. It's draining resources. It might pay off, but the only way I see it can, is some big game developer coughing up the massive investment and expertise they need to do this right. Alas, I also know they've approached big game companies before and they can't get a bite.
For whatever reason many big gaming companies don't see the rules or brand, as anything worth leveraging. Actually even D&D has had a bit of a problem with this. Heck, even Magic the Gathering has. The mechanics of these old paper brands, just aren't enough to entice licensing. I think if D&D flops here with NWO, we may never see another large D&D branded video game again. I really believe that.
My wooden nickel on the subject only, of course. But yeah, Pathfinder is not a "theme park game". No. Nope. Sorry. The fact the "Rise of the Runelords" hard cover was one of the surprise sellers in paper RPGs this year doesn't change that.
Check out SHADOW on YouTube!
However, my vaporware of choice is the World of Darkness MMO, not Pathfinder. Call it a weakness for gothic shenanigans if you like. It's a problem, I admit.