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Idea to improve current enchantment plan
irene
Member Posts: 159 Arc User
Dear all Players and Developers,
The newly planned enchantments could potentially undo our past efforts and to drive existing supporters away. Few friends of mine have told me that they wish to sell their account.
Instead of giving just another small 'Ney' feedback on the official thread, I think it is mission critical to communicate what we want - we've got to make a stand together. I wish this proposed enchantment table improvement can gain strong support and recognition to persuade a change.
[True understanding of the market]
Adding more item levels is not the right way. WoW has done it and people just play and quit. If we make a game with plastic sword item level 50,000 and in next patch metal sword item level 1,000,000, it'd be a HAMSTER game.
The items must have long term recognition and value. In the free steam game Counter-Strike with over a million players, people are paying over thousands of USD on cosmetic weapon skins because it has high collecting value and it is tradable. It does not increase any weapon stats in game.
It is with miracle and luck that traders surfaced in Neverwinter. Mark of Potency is their recognized currency. This trend must not go unnoticed. Instead, it would be better if it can be explored further, such as to exchange MOP for Bitcoin or other Arc games. This can drive in a lot more players, but that is another topic.
The below table is a summary of what's being planned for mod22. There is now a new rank 1 to rank 5 enchantment with item level 300 - 1500.
Though this formula opens a crave for higher item level and we can trade our existing for new ones, it has indirectly harm the game's overall item value. Existing players who have spent a lot of time, money and effort to collect the best items became bottom level in the next patch. Their hard earned gear or mounts became less significant when compared to the item level 1300 - 1500 enchants.
If you buy a painting at $1000 and the painting is suddenly drop to $50 tomorrow, you will most likely not to buy again. You might even label the store as scam.
[Proposal of a better design]
First off, protect the interest of current collectors and traders. Give the Mark of Potency an ability to exchange for tokens.
Next, protect the dignity of current players by introducing 3 new ranks "Basic" "intermediate" and "Advanced".
For example, players with Rank 14 enchantments will be able to trade in for an Advanced enchantment in next mod. He or she starts the game as a recognized player with Higher advanced stats.
Minimize the item level gap between the ranks to 20 to protect the value of collectors. Those who have spent a lot on mythic mounts, collars, high enchants are still winners as an advanced player with a much higher stats than basic.
Finally, introduce the new Ranks 1 to 5 as new mythic enchants. It can create a better desire for players to join in the elite ranks.
Thank you.
The newly planned enchantments could potentially undo our past efforts and to drive existing supporters away. Few friends of mine have told me that they wish to sell their account.
Instead of giving just another small 'Ney' feedback on the official thread, I think it is mission critical to communicate what we want - we've got to make a stand together. I wish this proposed enchantment table improvement can gain strong support and recognition to persuade a change.
[True understanding of the market]
Adding more item levels is not the right way. WoW has done it and people just play and quit. If we make a game with plastic sword item level 50,000 and in next patch metal sword item level 1,000,000, it'd be a HAMSTER game.
The items must have long term recognition and value. In the free steam game Counter-Strike with over a million players, people are paying over thousands of USD on cosmetic weapon skins because it has high collecting value and it is tradable. It does not increase any weapon stats in game.
It is with miracle and luck that traders surfaced in Neverwinter. Mark of Potency is their recognized currency. This trend must not go unnoticed. Instead, it would be better if it can be explored further, such as to exchange MOP for Bitcoin or other Arc games. This can drive in a lot more players, but that is another topic.
The below table is a summary of what's being planned for mod22. There is now a new rank 1 to rank 5 enchantment with item level 300 - 1500.
Though this formula opens a crave for higher item level and we can trade our existing for new ones, it has indirectly harm the game's overall item value. Existing players who have spent a lot of time, money and effort to collect the best items became bottom level in the next patch. Their hard earned gear or mounts became less significant when compared to the item level 1300 - 1500 enchants.
If you buy a painting at $1000 and the painting is suddenly drop to $50 tomorrow, you will most likely not to buy again. You might even label the store as scam.
[Proposal of a better design]
First off, protect the interest of current collectors and traders. Give the Mark of Potency an ability to exchange for tokens.
Next, protect the dignity of current players by introducing 3 new ranks "Basic" "intermediate" and "Advanced".
For example, players with Rank 14 enchantments will be able to trade in for an Advanced enchantment in next mod. He or she starts the game as a recognized player with Higher advanced stats.
Minimize the item level gap between the ranks to 20 to protect the value of collectors. Those who have spent a lot on mythic mounts, collars, high enchants are still winners as an advanced player with a much higher stats than basic.
Finally, introduce the new Ranks 1 to 5 as new mythic enchants. It can create a better desire for players to join in the elite ranks.
Thank you.
Post edited by irene#2829 on
3
Comments
Some people have spent real money to exchange for AD so they can get the best enchantments possible and marks of potency. In module 22, they can exchange the enchantments but the new enchantments they are going to get are a huge downgrade. Will those players get a refund? Resetting people's progress in a game that's all about spending money to progress faster is VERY WRONG.
Now changes will act as AD sink and players start to hate..
On top of that, there are too many Coal wards in game market. And reason is that there are too many armour/weapon and regular enchantments in game. In live server we have what, 15 rank enchantments. But all bellow rank 11 considered as worthless( trash in short).
The legacy refinament and upgrade system( pre mod 7) required to spend same enchantments as catalists.
Lets say you want upgrade Azure enchantment rank 7 to rank 8.. Not only you required marks of potency + others stuffs. You also had to spend Rank 7 Azure enchantment too.
This system worked where to maintain balance on how many enchantments should float in game economy. And also force players to farm them or catalists for upgrading..
Once that system got replaced, market got overflood by Coal wards and enchantments in general.
While Dread enchantment considered bellow bottom line. I still liked it and pitty that it gets removed.. But it's the step which need to be done. The current issue with in game economy is not OK. Both AD, upgrade/refine catalist and enchantments wise..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Mmo is about change and evolution.
You cannot protect traders/item holders interest at every step.
Why everyone must be moved to new end game from start?
They are reworking and extending enchant system to make it relevant again.
Your proposal diminish all significance from it (they intended that 1 new enchant is equal to 3 old ones and you are putting it up with 300 item lvl) and makes ppl to move to new end game too fast.
I dont like either u r using prices for current state which are already adjusted to post preview release. It would be much more fair if u put prices pre preview, when rank 15 was 800-900k and rank 10 was 5-15k, but well manipulating data for your agenda is very convenient right? ^^
I actually think new system is very good, it fixes many issues with scalability and using multiple loadouts/items in current system. ppl in most cases, especially ones who put significant resources into enchants gonna find themselves on slight + in stats/item level after conversion with plenty room to further improvement. That's what is supposed to happen when u add new content.
In my opinion this approach kills all evolution part of the game and is favoring current end gamers so they don't have to do anything to stay on the top. I prefer new system to be requirement so people has to invest horded resources since last update which is Mythic insignias released in June and play the game to keep up instead of rework be just insignificant addition making end gamers just chill and spam protectors enclave that there is nothing to do in game.
I see players willing to buy expensive mythic collars, and doing all they could to push that little bit more extra stats. It can be just +200 item level and it cost 20 million AD to upgrade from legendary to mythic.
With new enchants up to over 1,300 item level, and new gear drops, the next level scale is obvious. It will put all previous effort to shame and making it redundant. You have been playing hard to get to item level 50,000 in this patch, and most players paid to unbox things to get there, but in mod22 everyone can hit item level 120,000+.
To put it into perspective, imagine getting our character to level 10. In the next patch, everyone is level 1000. It is in an obvious sense that it's going to undo all the past effort, purchase, support and interest. This can altogether create a reason for long term supporters to give up throwing in more support (or money), As written in my proposal, a successful game is to create reputable items and sense of belonging. It is best if the next challenge is difficult and it gives a few item with slightly higher stats. The new demogorgon is great. The new Reaper challenge is great.
In this game, we build our characters, we are trying to find our sense of belonging. Which is why people propose for houses. Which is why people don't mind spending a bit of real life money to find a bit of upgrade. Increasing item level by such a large scale can defeat the purpose.
Let's not repeat world of warcraft's mistake, where every patch simply adds more item levels, and it pissed fans off when they realize they are just supporting a temporary relationship.
New changes are good because, they simplify enchants, reduce necessity for dupes ( my 3 loadouts require 47 atm) and also it creates need for og players to do something and that's what u expect from new Module. New things to do and new goals to work on. If they add it in a way u propose it, it will be just a toy for top 0.01% players which kills the point of rework.
I did all my research and new end game state for optimal build (not high item lvl) gonna be around 77k item lvl(some comes from old artis/wep item lvl increase) and it seems to be fair, especially if u put in perspective there is new trial going to pop up soon. Moreover old items doesn't lose on value, since enchants is only upgrade system from many others.
I dont rly understand what is your fear at this point. New players gets chance to buy lowest rarity for 100k ad instead of 1.2m as token exchange rate suggest so all getting pretty fair treatment.
Many people who have spent money to have the best enchantments and runestones no longer wish to support the company. Those who are willing to spend again will make F2P players feel more worthless and stop playing too because they will be asked to have a much higher item level for future dungeons and trials. The new module is doing more harm than good.
Knowing Craptic™, the new system is most likely designed to make a P2W game even more P2W to make up for the declining playerbase. In my opinion, new equipment would be enough to keep us interested. Maybe the equip bonuses could have been more useful. We shouldn't have to lose items we can obtain by spending money.
Also the update itself will only move the bar higher for further improvement, players who are maxed out now on enchants, going to end up with 4k more item lvl and combined stats than they used to be, so where is the problem?
My advice to you if you expect to pay once and forever be end gamer is to get a single player game, finish it and chill on the end.
The likeably changes are
>unbounding enchants from item, so players doesn't need dupes for other items (I need atm 47 enchants for 3 loadouts.)
>making enchants 1 stat makes it easier to adjust stats for multiple roles
>companion enchants allow to use atk and augment companion without requiring to make 2 sets for each as now
>the increase in item lvl and stats makes the system more relevant and impactful, atm 900k ad cost for 100 item lvl is quite discouraging
>current system upgrade cost is so high, players don't upgrade enchantments, but use trade bars to replace it, which is big issue from scalability stand point. (if they added rank 16-18 for 1200-1600 trade bars, u need replace all instead of upgrade)
The only issues I see atm is
>combat enchants have very inferior passives compared to current one with very high item lvl gain not backed up by combined stats and they choice is pretty limited
> Weapon and Armor enchants rank 7,8,9 should also be tradeable, like 5,10,15 tokens
What I compared to consoles are the enchants. Upgrading them is a very slow process and it costs a lot of resources. Everything in this game is designed to be inconvenient enough to make you want to spend. Some people who want to be useful and appreciated in group content will naturally want to throw some money and buy better enchants. When the new module come, those enchants will become useless. You can exchange them to buy a few of the new enchants but you will either have to spend for the better ones or grind until you get bored. It is true that people with the best enchnats currently available will experience a small increase in item level but they will be nowhere near the highest item level. This will give an even bigger advantage to P2W players. New dungeons and trials will be released in time and they will require a higher item level to join. People who paid for rank 15 enchants in this module will have to start over or be left out. They have wasted their money and efforts.
I agree with Irene about Demogorgon trial rework and Reaper's Challenge. I think hardcore Vault of Stars is a good addition too. All that content offers new challenges for people to keep them entertained if they wish to have the optional items or progress a bit faster. No complete overhaul that makes you want to keep spending money. Neverwinter being a free game is not an excuse. Free games don't need to be P2W to be successful. League of Legends, Paladins, Dota 2 and many other free games have a healthy playerbase and they aren't P2W. You can buy mostly cosmetics in those games and you keep what you buy. It stays with you for a lifetime. Neverwinter could have been much more successful if it wasn't such a P2W hamster game. Revamping old dungeons and zones to match the story is a change too, as expected from an MMORPG. Exclusive cosmetics from chests at the end of some dungeons is also a good enough reason to queue. And those cosmetics shouldn't be obtainable in other ways.
It seems my opposition idea has lost credibility and failed to win support. I am embarrassed. I'll support developer's idea wholeheartedly.
I don't fundamentaly disagree, although "good job" seems a bit too much ^^.
The "keep older content relevant" thing really depends on what you consider to be "content".
Personnally, although I can consider playing the "min-max your equipement" minigame to be some sort of content (not really different from collecting fashion and playing the "dress your doll" minigame), I still don't see individual pieces of stuff as more than a mean to achieve a goal/get access to something or a carrot to make me do something.
RPG playing around the equipement is ok for me when it is done by constantly adding new things that matches the progression needed for the next/new zones/quests/dungeons/trials.
But I honestly don't like forced obsolescence (or even straight rejuvenation like we had with the river district weapons) introduced by Cryptic chronically renewing all or part of the system (for the worst or the best).
Changes are not necessarily a bad thing. It allows you to get new goals, new things to look for (or look for again... damn i never should have trashed my river district weapons in mod16 just to get them as skins in that new wardrobe feature...), or rethink about how to handle your toon.
Mod6 changes, mod16 changes, mod20 changes, you have already 4 very different systems in 8 years, and that are just the biggest turns (each time with some vanished content, 'member Lair of the Mad Dragon, Gauntlgrym, Foundry, level 5-60 skirmishes, old Sharandar, yeh i 'member).
Fast forward 4 years in the future, we are in 2025, mod27. My crystal ball tells me :
1 new skirmish, 3 new dungeons and 2 new trials,
1 new class monk
new Dread Ring (content of the old one was wiped out)
Valindra's Tower doesn't exist anymore
Tiamat was reworked to be much more a challenge, but is instantly abandonned by most of the random parties
Item level was reworked and renamed gear score.
a different "more sustainable" stat system is in place, based on binary (0-1) thresholds calculated from the difference between your target and you.
level 21
mythic weapons
the 5 collars and 25 insignas you were used to equip are planned to be reworked, to "simplify", into saddle/stirrups/reins either barbed, armored or furred (the different combinations give different "mount equipement bonus", full barbed being for full dps, full furred being for full heal, full armored being for full tank, 1 barbed/1furred/1armored being balanced in between) to put on your one and only equiped mount. Insignas bonus will be gone. That's ok, you can exchange 1 mythic collar for 30 "mount equipement tokens", 10 for the legendary, 1 for the epic (below that =0), and 1 mythic insigna for 5 tokens, 1 for the legendary (below that= 0), for 60 tokens you can buy one epic saddle or stirrups or reins, and then may upgrade to legendary with 25 of the new orange thingy you get to loot with 1% chances in the endchests of the future mod 28 new dungeon. Zen market is selling 60 mount equipements tokens for 3000 Zen and 25 orange thingies for 2500 zen.
The game should build upon its fundations, though sometimes it is sane to check and maybe rework the fundations as the game evolves, i feel like Neverwinter is overly reworking them again and again and again.
I would said in french : "Cryptic réinvente à chaque fois l'eau chaude" (Cryptic is each time reinventing the hot water).
It makes me feel like the game can't evolve organically, but rather is brutally shifting from being a butterfly to be then a penguin, then a horse, then a maggot, then a donkey, then a platypus. I like most of those animals, but not all of them :P.