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OFFICIAL: Refinement Changes

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  • achrousachrous Member Posts: 7 Arc User


    Rank 14 Weapon enchantments give 8% bonus damage and 800 il. So that's -0.8% on all stats. This is manageable.
    Rank 4 Combat enchantment gives 8% bonus damage and 4000 il. So that's -4% on all stats. That's insane. A player that is not familiar with how the ratings system works, they are not getting what they are seeing on the tooltip. Either the bonus damage/extra item level is getting negated by the 4% loss of all stats.

    Instead of giving 100% combined rating, have you considered not giving any item level or giving less combined ratings? Mount collars had the same issue when they came out and they give 50% combined rating now.

    Otherwise an empty combat slot would be a viable solution.

    It's true, a new Combat enchantment is just "a hole from the bagel". Who will spend resourses (money, time) on what makes him weaker?

    @noworries#8859

    And I hope, you make an Offensive and Defensive Combat enchantments slots.
    Each would give 2000 IL and 1600 CR (80%)...
  • trelamytrelamy Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Hello! I would like to ask with the upcoming changes, if it is possible that we get to convert the Brilliant Energy Enchantment that we got from Hero of the North Founders Pack long time ago, into visual for our weapons.
    Our beliefs don't make us better people. Our actions do.
  • agodbeaagodbea Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    The cheapest rank 10 enchant cost around 40k AD and you can exchange it for a medallion
    For weapon enchants (r8 is around 25+ k Ad, r9 75k Ad, r10 1.1M AD)
    For armour enchants (r8 is around 20+k AD, r9 100k Ad, r10 1.2M AD)

    So a rank 9 weapon or armour enchant cost more than a rank 10 normal enchant and is not exchangeable for a medallion

    rank 10 enchants seems to be between 40k and 100k in auction
    rank 10 weapon enchants between 1.1 and 3.6 M AD
    rank 10 armour enchants between 1 and 6 M AD

    Basically i think weapon and armour enchants should be exchanged for more than the normal enchants and that either r8 or r9 weapon/armour enchants should exchange for 1 medallion
  • agodbeaagodbea Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    noted one error i made:
    rank 10 normal enchants is exchanged for 1 medallion while armour enchant is exchanged to 20
    rank 10 weapon/armour is exchanged for 20

    You get 20 medallions in exchange for one rank 15 normal enchant or one rank 10 weapon/armour enchant
    You get 12 medallions in exchange for one rank 14 normal enchant (should it had been? or one rank 9 weapon/armor enchant)
  • gildriadorgildriador Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    I would like to know if in the new system pants and shirt are supposed to be able to use jewel or armor kits.

    I Think everfrost armor kit that worked on shirt and pants are removed from the game, and currently on preview it's impossible to add jewel or armor kits on shirt and pants.

    I ask this question because an option to apply reinforement is available for the shirt and pants on preview.

    Thanks
    “He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.”
    ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
  • nisckisnisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User

    *Marks of Potency. A big topic was an exchange for those items. Another concern raised in the thread is also why aren't we doing more about the ZAX backlog. Giving bonus AD out to everyone for existing MoPs, especially ones bought on sale and with VIP discounts would only make all of that worse. But we will add an exchange for MoPs Rank 4-7 which will give back 60% of the Wondrous Bazaar cost of the items.


    I would also suggest a cost-for-cost exchange for the new Glyphs of Potency, i.e. 2 MoP4 for a glyph, 2 MoP5 for 3 glyphs, etc, since that's straightforward, doesn't inject AD back into the economy, and is a better trade value for those who didn't buy with VIP12.


    I was going to suggest exactly this, adding a cost-for-cost exchange between the new Glyphs and the old Marks used. That way we can move from the old system to the new one.
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 580 Arc User
    > @nisckis said:
    > I was going to suggest exactly this, adding a cost-for-cost exchange between the new Glyphs and the old Marks used. That way we can move from the old system to the new one.

    If the new ones are in the bazaar, then giving AD will have the same end result as an exchange. Though, some may lose out on AD.
    Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 580 Arc User
    tgwolf said:

    Just a summary of lower effort things that should be added/happen:

    - Definitely go ahead with the plan to make Rank 5s tradeable for an Account Bound reclaimable version.
    - Weapon/Armor Enchants Rank 9 and lower should be tradeable for their illusion but no currency. There's literally no reason for them not to be.
    - Illusions should be Account reclaimable by default. Again, there is no reason not to be.

    #1 - I like my crack-pot idea better, but this will be better than nothing. The reply in the other thread seems to have left the door open for upgrading the account wide enchantment in the future.
    #2 - I agree with this, leaving these in the game as shards to be refined could make it an ok chase item and preserve some value.
    #3 - 100%
    Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 588 Arc User

    Some people is obsessed with stat %s, I see this on live also. People not using %dmg companions or lowering the IL just to have all offensive stats at 90% and they are doing much less damage. Dont understimate base dmg or %dmg.

    This new system was created to force us making choices, not having a mainstream build with all max IL and all stats at 90%.

    Combat enchant not having combined rating is a choice, like mount collars not having 80% combined rating. Some people dont wear collars because of that. Thats fine also!!. Just do a test in preview, with combat enchant and without it, if you do less damage, or your defensive stats are not acceptable, just unslot it, is a choice like others you have to do. Maybe the sweet spot is not at 75K, maybe is at 72K or less, who knows.

    Also, if you lose defensive stats but are making more dmg, is also a choice, I as dps dont like to be a glass cannon also, and maybe I sacrifice some dps to be able to take a hit or two. The good thing is that we have to make choices, and every character is different.

    Tests must be done but some of the complains I am seing here are all about "If I maximize everything I will lose stats %", well, then dont maximize everything. Look for your comfortable spot. You want an offensive enchant on a tank? go for it. You play with no companion enchant? ok. You want to have all 90%? unslot companion and weapon enchant.

    Maybe the system is not 100% balanced, but first we need to copy character, rebalance enchants, and tweak some things and see.

    Edit: typo

    The % is only part of the problem. The value of the medallions, the lack of choice on combat enchant, runestone, and even regular enchants, is the main problem for me. As it stands, I'll have close to 3k medallions. With not much choice, there is no need for that much. So I'll have to sell, instead of an easy turn in like the bondings. I'm not saying 2.6 mil AD for each rank 15 is a must, but giving player 800k value, not AD, for each rank 15 seems wrong. If the price of the rank 2 and 4 packs drops, the medallion price will mean nothing, the market will dictate price and we will get even less. So at current prices, I'll be able to buy a coalescent ward for 2 rank 15's, or close to that. Last week, before this was announced, it was closer to 1 to 1. It's only going to get worse. Please give AD exchange instead of the medallions, even if it's 1mil AD per rank 15.
  • ghoulieboyghoulieboy Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    [sarcasm] Oh yes, please, give AD exchange for the old enchantments instead of the medallions and thus automatically nuke ZAX another half-a-year deeper into the abyss, that's the exact thing we're in dire need for right now [/sarcasm]
  • arbitrarityarbitrarity Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 95 Arc User

    If the new ones are in the bazaar, then giving AD will have the same end result as an exchange. Though, some may lose out on AD.

    Direct exchange is better value if you specifically want new Glyphs. Exchange for 60% AD assumes the user has VIP 12 and it's Wondrous Bazaar 15% off, while a direct exchange preserves value, but avoids injecting new AD into the economy.

    Unless by "the same end result" you mean "for people who are patient enough to wait for a Bazaar discount and are VIP 12", which... is true, yes. For everyone else, trading like-for-like seems like a nice option to provide.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,508 Arc User

    I totally agree with redchillismoke and 22 discarded 40% Key vouchers in last 5 days is how I am responding to this, I will no longer spend money opening boxes that basically give refinement points, and in the last 2 years and 28 Characters over TWO VIP 12 accounts I had discarded 3 40% Key vouchers and that was before we were compensated for the last "rework" and I started buying again, now I also have to agree that weapons and armor enchants ranks 8 and 9 need a fair medallion exchange rate to see me even think about spending anymore money on this game EVER. You are still selling the rank 9 in Zen store, you are still giving the rank 8s in leveling rewards, all of these need to be able to be swapped for a fair amount of the medallions, or and I KNOW you don't want this but you need to refund the Zen people paid for those Rank 9 Butterfly Holy Vorpal ect..., likely also need to refund the 30K IL bundles too, and if you say heh just BUY a Coal ward and upgrade it to rank 10 well I can only shake my head and say you really don't have a clue on how to run a business. You can't force people at gunpoint to buy something and then expect them to be happy to spend more.

    You seem to have missed some information. Also, remember that things can change on preview, it's not the final form...especially when the live date is as far away as it is.

    "Another aspect brought up was the Illusions and rank 8/9 weapon/armor enchants. We will look into making an exchange for those for illusions so people can make sure to still have their visuals." -Noworries

    Pretty sure the main reason people bought those enchants was for the visuals, so this is a fair exchange.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,508 Arc User

    No its not a fair exchange I have never paid for visual effects with real money. I paid for them for their battle effects I could care less for visuals and infact mostly disable visuals on my enchants I dont like butterflies at all but did not want to spend that much ad on bilethorn at the time as my AD was already low and a rank 9 was a ridiculous price on AH, some people have use three coal wards to get to rank 9 and you think a visual effect is worth all that zen, think again.

    Then why did you buy the butterflies and not just a normal barkshield? Or maybe help out the ZAX backlog and convert that Zen to AD? Or did you also buy the pack for the other items that are still just as viable and made the pack worth it?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,508 Arc User

    I would also like to say 28 characters of which 21 on one account and 7 on the other and yes when I was naïve and stupid I bought coal wards and made weapon and armor enchants because I was stupid and bought campaign starter packs that gave me three coal wards so I have cash invested in many of my characters in form of rank 8 and 9 weapons and armor enchants and I doubt I am the only one, and because you can only refine 100k ad a day I had to buy stuff like that from Zen store to outfit my alts, as well as the slots for those alts, and now my investment is worth a visual effect, please look at what you are saying and if people you do this to are going to want to spend money to keep you in a job.

    So now instead of having 21 different sets of enchantments, you can just work on upgrading ONE set and then trade them for the account set and all your 21 alts on the one account will be set.
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 580 Arc User
    > @arbitrarity said:
    > Direct exchange is better value if you specifically want new Glyphs. Exchange for 60% AD assumes the user has VIP 12 and it's Wondrous Bazaar 15% off, while a direct exchange preserves value, but avoids injecting new AD into the economy.
    >
    > Unless by "the same end result" you mean "for people who are patient enough to wait for a Bazaar discount and are VIP 12", which... is true, yes. For everyone else, trading like-for-like seems like a nice option to provide.

    The problem is the difference in values of the various current stones and the one glyph type. You would end up with leftovers of whatever exchange currency they make or leftover stones. I agree putting AD in is not good, but is likely the best way to avoid headaches(from this). Besides, the Zax will never recover anyway, unless they want it to.
    Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
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