Combat Rework - Feedback

xcessiveforce40

Here's a fun bit of math. So the little known Aragon (sarcasm) made a video about the AD cost of getting a toon to max stats (roughly over 50k IL). So I chimed in with a little maths to associate that cost in dollars. Here goes. Without Collars, he stated approx 240 million AD to get to max level. So, it costs $100 quid American to get 11000 zen. That Zen converts to roughly 8,250,000. Now if you do some wizardy, that comes to roughly $2945 dollars if you want to get close to max. Maybe you can be frugal with that and get 3 purple collars for that price as well. So think about this... For that price, you can step into Temple of the Spider and get out DPS'd by the new player with 15k item level.

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tiltawhirling#1261

They aren't listening, so nothing is sinking in. I'm on my way out the door.

lolileveby

I'm still trying to find out the maths for this rework and am coming up empty.

armadeonx

lolileveby said:

I'm still trying to find out the maths for this rework and am coming up empty.

Here's the math:

klein772#9648

I gave Neverwinter a week I have tried messing around with all of my equipment on my paladin, cleric and barb. I can not get through dungeons as the entire party dies every time. Running strongholds is a nightmare. I used to have fun playing this game but now its is a huge headache. I do not want to take a statistics class just to tweak my character on a free to play game. I still have month left of VIP but at this point this game is not worth retuning to. I have been playing this game for about five years and i have yet to win a mount from any of the lock boxes, or anything out of the dungeon chests.

clericbloodmoon#8364

Go back to the old combat system. A lot of people. That have been playing this game for years. Are about to quit the game.

kungskabb#9290

Already quit. These guys are just amateurs, wildly flailing about with no real clue about how to design a functioning system. 2 major reworks in 2 years is at least one too many. And both were lacking both in concept and execution. They obviously can't plan properly, as they keep on deploying half-finished updates, and they have no time to fix the problems. Good luck bozos.

armadeonx

Stronghold HE's are definitely an issue. I ran one of my 'average' alts through 3 HEs for influence today - he's in a GH15 guild.

This alt is a 28k Fighter. On his DPS build he has:
78% power
60% Acc
50% Crit & Severity
52% def (capped)
48% Awareness

All 3 fights were harder than when Strongholds came out. I used 3 healing potions (one per HE) even with extra heals from 2 insignia bonuses and from a chest armor bonus - and my guy has a shield...

Bearing in mind that I'm very familiar with all the HEs having run them for years and deliberately picked the easiest - they were scaled far too hard, especially for a GH15.

It's hard enough for guild leaders to get members to run influence & shard missions already, making the fights harder is incredibly unhelpful.

flyball#6248

I think the real challenge of some classes is they lack either significant AOE or secondary effects like Daze, freeze, root etc....These effects make things doable. I started a new rogue assassin with the new patch without the free enhancement gifts as I had collected them on my largely unplayable GWF BM.

The Rogue's movement, stealth and AOE allow for an effective means to deal with mobs in most areas. Where I am having problems seem to be areas my ITL says I am not quite ready for this area (like the last half of undermountain, Avernus, High level skirmishes and most guild stuff. Much of my success has largely been taking advantage of CA

Both toons are l80 but my rogue has managed to get to an IL of just over 20k

My GWF, however, is quite a different story. Under the old system they could storm through and handle multiple opponents. Now more than 4 opponents swarming and I go down fast... At the rate of HP descent I don't believe sentinel paragon )tank mode) would make any significant difference. The GWF seems to lack the maneuverability and dodging capability needed for the new combat system. I suspect the same may be true for pally's and fighters and clerics.

armadeonx

flyball#6248 said:

I think the real challenge of some classes is they lack either significant AOE or secondary effects like Daze, freeze, root etc....These effects make things doable. I started a new rogue assassin with the new patch without the free enhancement gifts as I had collected them on my largely unplayable GWF BM.

The Rogue's movement, stealth and AOE allow for an effective means to deal with mobs in most areas. Where I am having problems seem to be areas my ITL says I am not quite ready for this area (like the last half of undermountain, Avernus, High level skirmishes and most guild stuff. Much of my success has largely been taking advantage of CA

Both toons are l80 but my rogue has managed to get to an IL of just over 20k

My GWF, however, is quite a different story. Under the old system they could storm through and handle multiple opponents. Now more than 4 opponents swarming and I go down fast... At the rate of HP descent I don't believe sentinel paragon )tank mode) would make any significant difference. The GWF seems to lack the maneuverability and dodging capability needed for the new combat system. I suspect the same may be true for pally's and fighters and clerics.

Pallys for sure, Fighters to a lesser degree but they have a dps paragon (unlike Pallys). Clerics running dps and a decent rotation actually do better than half of the dedicated dps classes.

The 'sprint' mechanic of Barbarians is extremely unhelpful for anything other than getting into the next mob quickly - I'd like to see an option (perhaps via feats) that can change it to a 'combat roll' or similar (something that's useful IN a fight rather than just getting TO a fight).

armadeonx

What might work for Barbarian dodge/sprint mechanic could be something like:

'if activated within melee range of enemies - you push back against them, jumping backward 6-8 ft'?

flyball#6248

armadeonx said:

flyball#6248 said:

I think the real challenge of some classes is they lack either significant AOE or secondary effects like Daze, freeze, root etc....These effects make things doable. I started a new rogue assassin with the new patch without the free enhancement gifts as I had collected them on my largely unplayable GWF BM.

The Rogue's movement, stealth and AOE allow for an effective means to deal with mobs in most areas. Where I am having problems seem to be areas my ITL says I am not quite ready for this area (like the last half of undermountain, Avernus, High level skirmishes and most guild stuff. Much of my success has largely been taking advantage of CA

Both toons are l80 but my rogue has managed to get to an IL of just over 20k

My GWF, however, is quite a different story. Under the old system they could storm through and handle multiple opponents. Now more than 4 opponents swarming and I go down fast... At the rate of HP descent I don't believe sentinel paragon )tank mode) would make any significant difference. The GWF seems to lack the maneuverability and dodging capability needed for the new combat system. I suspect the same may be true for pally's and fighters and clerics.

Pallys for sure, Fighters to a lesser degree but they have a dps paragon (unlike Pallys). Clerics running dps and a decent rotation actually do better than half of the dedicated dps classes.

The 'sprint' mechanic of Barbarians is extremely unhelpful for anything other than getting into the next mob quickly - I'd like to see an option (perhaps via feats) that can change it to a 'combat roll' or similar (something that's useful IN a fight rather than just getting TO a fight).

The combat roll is what the rogue basically has. I do like the jump back or knockback idea. Even so the idea of the class is a warrior that jumps into the fray.

Pallys and fighters could be given a better shield black or knock back capability, but even so they will still lack maneuverability

grybz#1204

I have been playing for a couple of years. Had a couple of false starts and the started to feel like I was getting somewhere. I will admit, I play for free and don’t put real money into the game. I really enjoyed it, and now the combat changes.....

Don’t get me wrong, there were changes needed. Too many times a random dungeon queue was a waste of time when I felt like my character and three others pottered along behind a super powered one hit wonder who ran ahead slaughtering everything leaving me with nothing to do but walk through to the end to collect some random <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from the chest.

I may have gone up 10k on my gear, but when I revisit areas which have previously caused me little trouble now I’m getting battered. I was working my way through the legacy campaigns but now feel like I need to start again. But, quite frankly, I can’t be arsed to go back and start all over again with an endless grind because i don’t know that they won’t shift the goalposts again. In fact they haven’t shifted the goalposts, they have changed the whole sport.

I know a few people have said they like the changes, some have even said it makes it more like other games, good for them, but if I wanted to play other games I would have played them. However, it does seem like the vast majority seem to be confused , disappointed or downright fed up with the changes. Neverwinter is not my game, I don’t own it, I don’t pay for it and I have no say over its development. But without the players this game will die , which would be a shame. It was a good game, but this has really killed it for me. Time to move on I am afraid.

armadeonx

flyball#6248 said:

armadeonx said:

flyball#6248 said:

I think the real challenge of some classes is they lack either significant AOE or secondary effects like Daze, freeze, root etc....These effects make things doable. I started a new rogue assassin with the new patch without the free enhancement gifts as I had collected them on my largely unplayable GWF BM.

The Rogue's movement, stealth and AOE allow for an effective means to deal with mobs in most areas. Where I am having problems seem to be areas my ITL says I am not quite ready for this area (like the last half of undermountain, Avernus, High level skirmishes and most guild stuff. Much of my success has largely been taking advantage of CA

Both toons are l80 but my rogue has managed to get to an IL of just over 20k

My GWF, however, is quite a different story. Under the old system they could storm through and handle multiple opponents. Now more than 4 opponents swarming and I go down fast... At the rate of HP descent I don't believe sentinel paragon )tank mode) would make any significant difference. The GWF seems to lack the maneuverability and dodging capability needed for the new combat system. I suspect the same may be true for pally's and fighters and clerics.

Pallys for sure, Fighters to a lesser degree but they have a dps paragon (unlike Pallys). Clerics running dps and a decent rotation actually do better than half of the dedicated dps classes.

The 'sprint' mechanic of Barbarians is extremely unhelpful for anything other than getting into the next mob quickly - I'd like to see an option (perhaps via feats) that can change it to a 'combat roll' or similar (something that's useful IN a fight rather than just getting TO a fight).

The combat roll is what the rogue basically has. I do like the jump back or knockback idea. Even so the idea of the class is a warrior that jumps into the fray.

Pallys and fighters could be given a better shield black or knock back capability, but even so they will still lack maneuverability

I'm cool with tanks being able to shield-up and waddle sideways when needed but Barbarian (dps version) is the only class that doesn't have a reasonable way of getting out of red zones when fighting bosses.

Yeah, I thought about the combat roll being too similar to the Rogue, that's why I thought of the push/jump as a unique move that keeps in with similar barb skills such as Mighty Leap /Hidden Daggars (backward leap) /Punishing Charge /Savage Advance /Avalanche of Steel. All of which have a leap or rush mechanic so it would look appropriate.

flyball#6248

How about a shield charge for fighters or pallies as shields are apart of their armament. GWF Leap sounds good...that would be a leap without an attack like mighty leap. BTW I have found the increased speed from the tier 2 campaign boons to be very useful with the combat rework

mebengalsfan#9264

I am thinking of coming back to this game. What has changed since mod 16? I left right before mod 17 was going to be released on PS4. I had a BiS Wizard when I left. Is it worth coming back?

mikewho#5331

@mebengalsfan#9264 hey man it’s kinda depressing now , I’ve always loved this game but like on PS4 theres a lot of my friends leaving , our friends list doesn’t load or update and I’ve just found myself staring at my toon for hours , think wizards got the shaft around mod 18 or so hunter trappers are back but who knows for how long If you comeback it may cost millions of AD to upgrade mounts and comps to mythic for less of what they used to give at legendary. Everyone’s using fighter comps now and our dmg is lower and even old dungeons are dangerous. I got my warden and hunter tuned and I’m just taking a break till mod 20.... if I come back to it at all

johnnystranger#5900

I’ve spent too many hours trying relentlessly to do upgrades and all . There really seems no> @mebengalsfan#9264 said:
> I am thinking of coming back to this game. What has changed since mod 16? I left right before mod 17 was going to be released on PS4. I had a BiS Wizard when I left. Is it worth coming back?
Your best to log in and see for yourself. Too much !! To list

armadeonx

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

I am thinking of coming back to this game. What has changed since mod 16? I left right before mod 17 was going to be released on PS4. I had a BiS Wizard when I left. Is it worth coming back?

Hey man, I came back from a long break toward the end of last year and a lot had changed but I was ok with it. They've just brought out another complete rework and the jury is split 30-70 on whether it's good or bad (70% on the bad).

Changes include removing base damage from weapons and making it a part of your item level
scaling for all dungeons so no more running ahead - everything has to be played like endgame
Capping all stats at 90% but splitting them between 50% & 40% categories and the 40% mostly just comes from companions & forte...
Forte! New stat that gives a 20%/10%/10% boost to 3 categories chosen for your class by the devs (often badly picked)
Removal of Bonding runestones and the nerfing of enchantments into pointlessness
Reduction in effectiveness of all boons to a value of 0.2% of a stat (200pts in old money)

They've deliberately shifted the focus of progression from self to mounts and companions and raised the cap on companions to mythic. You now need 10 mythic companions & mounts to be bis.

That's most of the basics. As to how you'll feel about it? Hard to say...