test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

OFFICIAL M19: Zariel's Challenge Feedback

1234568

Comments

  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 938 Arc User

    Haruman and olanthius hit points you need to reduce them because we lost 45% damage buff from thaumaturge fix and is very hard to impossible for some dps compositions to pass that dps check.

    i think their HP are fine, we still managed to beat the dps check without thaum, and our group doenst have the strongest dps.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 938 Arc User
    chemjeff said:



    If you want to see a change to the loot system then I am all ears. But it should be a change that applies to all, not just to the 1%.

    if you havent noticed, ppl that complain here about zariel rewards did also give feedback for the loot system in the whole game. But since you only see your narrow "i dont want content i cant do to be rewarding" view, you conveniently ignore that.
    If you are for changes in the loot system, why is it that i dont see you making suggestions about the lootsystems in game that suck, but instead do everything you can to keep every system that sucks in game?
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 388 Arc User
    @chemjeff

    Comparing brand new players grind for AD to get their toons ready for random queues to rewards in content clearly meant for players that have completed this grind is just silly.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,239 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:



    But all that futile. It's will be easier to explain colors to a blind person than getting in a sensible debate here.


    I think this quote sums up this entire discussion.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited June 24
    What can I say... Please revert the last patch that increased enemies hit points at EVERY stage of the trials. It would have been fine just to add some more mechanics in phase 3 or 5 with some fine tuning.
    This becomes ridiculous.

    In addition to new healing nerf, I am really wondering what your strategy is for this trial.

    It was already a sacrifice to gear up wayyyyy more than for Tomm just to survive: >500hp for dps, "tank" 50k hp legendary mount for everybody, MULTIPLE griffons regardless of the healers's skills.
    I am even wondering if it is possible to survive several white noises in a row now with the "new" healing nerf on the shields (unless you have reduced the damage) and I am wondering how tanks can be healed quickly with the at-will nerf (unless you have reduced the damage the tanks undergo).

    Now this trial looks more like a wreckage.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    > @tom#6998 said:
    > (Quote)
    > If you read asterdahls post, they dont want the trial to be rewarding in terms of items/ad. The reward is beating the challenge. At the moment the trial is just way to easy for just beating it to be rewarding enough. So to me the buffs make total sense.

    Yeah, that's just dead content. It's like making a gun that only works when it's pointed at the user's nostrils
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,266 Arc User
    edited June 24
    Boss does one more att will to another tank and the tank busters are not at the same time. check the clip below

    https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticGrossReubenDansGame
  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    > @tom#6998 said:
    > (Quote)
    > If you read asterdahls post, they dont want the trial to be rewarding in terms of items/ad. The reward is beating the challenge. At the moment the trial is just way to easy for just beating it to be rewarding enough. So to me the buffs make total sense.

    Now, if you have read asterdahl's post, he specifically said that they think the power and the status should be enough from the weapons and some players might find beating it enough of a reward.

    Also maybe only call something too easy if you at least successfully done it once. Just as a general advice.
  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    edited June 25
    Now, on the buff/nerf on the patch as a DPS:

    I actually would not mind the power bump IF we get more options to realistically progress up our character to the new difficulty level.

    We use lvl 60 elixirs that you just gather by invoking on alts, level 70 potions as consumables that worths like 150 AD, the same lvl 70 kits, almost negligible guild foods.

    I said before about getting more categories, but also all category of consumables are up for an improvement and an upscale. If somehow 2 legendary mount can be expected, I see no reason why can't I sink my AD into potions that actually give something better than a major flask or a guild food that offers more power than my invoke buff.

    They don't need to be cheap or they just... shouldn't be, but they should offer an option to bridge the powergap.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 938 Arc User
    edited June 25

    > @tom#6998 said:

    > (Quote)

    > If you read asterdahls post, they dont want the trial to be rewarding in terms of items/ad. The reward is beating the challenge. At the moment the trial is just way to easy for just beating it to be rewarding enough. So to me the buffs make total sense.



    Now, if you have read asterdahl's post, he specifically said that they think the power and the status should be enough from the weapons and some players might find beating it enough of a reward.



    Also maybe only call something too easy if you at least successfully done it once. Just as a general advice.

    ehrm, i did beat it serveral times, so whats your point again?

    and just as a general advice, dont just asume stuff about ppl when you have no clue ;)
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 938 Arc User
    edited June 25

    tom#6998 said:

    What can I say... Please revert the last patch that increased enemies hit points at EVERY stage of the trials. It would have been fine just to add some more mechanics in phase 3 or 5 with some fine tuning.
    This becomes ridiculous.

    In addition to new healing nerf, I am really wondering what your strategy is for this trial.

    It was already a sacrifice to gear up wayyyyy more than for Tomm just to survive: >500hp for dps, "tank" 50k hp legendary mount for everybody, MULTIPLE griffons regardless of the healers's skills.
    I am even wondering if it is possible to survive several white noises in a row now with the "new" healing nerf on the shields (unless you have reduced the damage) and I am wondering how tanks can be healed quickly with the at-will nerf (unless you have reduced the damage the tanks undergo).

    Now this trial looks more like a wreckage.

    If you read asterdahls post, they dont want the trial to be rewarding in terms of items/ad. The reward is beating the challenge. At the moment the trial is just way to easy for just beating it to be rewarding enough. So to me the buffs make total sense.

    Did you try the last version?

    Previously, the trial was feasible and could include any dps classes, as long as they dealt decent good damage and as long as the gear/mounts/debuffs were well thought. Healers were under pressure but were getting used to time their powers according to the mechanics. Tanks were taking big damage and had to be skilled.

    Since the last patch, mechanics chain very quickly and are to be timed a bit differently, enemies hit points have been increased to a crazy stupid level, white noise damage has been increased, people have to take balls continously from the start in phase 2 to have a minimal chance of getting to phase 3 and they even have to suicide to balls to prevent desperatly the bar from increasing more ... and healers have been nerfed to the ground by reducing the potency of their heals, by reducing their AP gain etc. It is a totally different experience.

    Yesterday I did two runs : it was a bitter experience. We have to react quicker than before, which is ok, but the healers cannot react quicker because they have to spam twice more their uneffective powers. And we die. And I am not exactly refering to the average Joe healers but to healers that already completed the trial previously. If we undergo several mechanics in a row, we are now not healed enough and we die on the last mechanic. Not to mention that phase 2 is now impossible to achieve (well you have maybe a 10% chance to pass it if you have a team of broken arbiters and other top dps, but RIP the other kinds of team).

    I expected the last version of the trial to include some more and new mechanics in phase 3 and phase 5, something requiring skills and/or team coordination, maybe a 10% buff to the hit points of the shades and of the angels (I don't mind if the angels are now at a later stage).
    I didn't expect this lazy design that consists in increasing the duration and hit points of everything. It is not challenging, it is just awful. I feel bad and I feel bad even more for the additional nerf to the healers.
    i havent ran the newest version yet, but ive seen ppl i know run it. First ppl in discord went crazy and said that P2 isnt possible to beat anymore, and like 1 hour later they did alrdy beat it. In my experience ppl tend to claim that things are to hard/impossible way to fast. Maybe the current version is to hard, maybe its not, i dont think this can be said with certanty after just 1 day of trying it. I also hoped for more mechanical complexity instead of just tuning up the numbers, but the version before was definitly to easy for my taste. It looks like the devs have their attention elsewere and dont care that much about the trial, changes that were supposed to come when it was still in the closed beta havent made it to preview till now, and it looks like the current version is what we will get on live :/.
    It wont be worthwhile to run for the rewards anyways.

    I will comment again when ive had time to really try out the current version.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    Hello there!
    Frankly at this point I don't mind having no rewards (even though some BtA consumables/overloads as a refund for the investment would be great) and adding mechanical complexity is always welcome as long content is beatable with coordination, strategy and practice. What it still concerning me is:
    - Enemies HP increase: it might be needed, especially in phase 2, but current amount seems to be a bit higher than needed, during phases it just leads to having to play the content for longer if no mechanics are added, while it is encouraging groups to stack meta classes only to pass the dps checks; true, class balance is in a way better state than back in the ToMM days, but still tweaks will be needed. Can't really tell about phase 4 as still have to see angels yet but the premises aren't encouraging.
    - Incoming damage buffs: I somehow like the idea of a "survival" trial over a "burst" one (that brings me to suggest not to boost enemies HP too much) but new incoming damage buffs, along with healing nerfs adjustments, are bringing damage dealers to stack even more defensive stats and bonuses, that is somehow against their nature. I understand the main reason behind that is avoiding players to brute force mechanics by stacking offensive stats, but there might be some better options: the debuffs some mechanics are applying are a great example on how to implement that.
    TL;DR: I do understand the limited time and resources, but it would be awesome having the trial focusing more on skills/timing/coordination than raw stats.
    Thank you for reading, have a nice day!
  • krymkackrymkac Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    To be honest i still think unavoidable dmg has no place in a game that has a dodge button. Let alone in d&d game. You do mechanics - you take no dmg, you dont - you die & wipe. That's how a challenge looks like. But new trial is full of that nonsense. Half of the mechanics are "stand & smile & eat dmg". As lazy as a design can possible be. To top it the incoming dmg of some of unavoidable attacks is ridiculously high, Updated white noise/bonds of virtue - 1.6kk base. I am sorry but are we really expected to stuck 600k+ hp on dps/healers classes & use griffon/bulette legendary mounts (which are lootboxes/zen store only items btw that should never be considered in balancing the endgame content in the first place) just to survive because dodging conveniently doesnt work? Out of 3 tank classes only fighter has meaningful party protection tool in a form of phalanx 20% dmg reduction daily, Thats it if he still somehow has ap because with healing adjustments you need all the tricks you have to stay alive while tanking the boss. Judgement is another example. When done right its still 4kk base dmg when tanks can only have a bit over 1 million hitpoints & defense is caped at 50%. Make one mistake & get a revive sickness & you will pretty much get chained killed. Unavoidable dmg aside i still like the trial. Well pre-last patch version of it anyway. I am all up for the extreme challenge.. when its not the only piece of content. If mod 19 had at least one new dungeon of IC/Tomm diffculty for example & zariel trial. But as it is 99% of the playerbase is getting same old dailies & heroics & hunts. Broing grind in other words. And 1% gets one trial to complete few times & move on because there is no reason to run it continuously.

    P.S.: How about a stream where full devs team runs & completes it? Common you designed it now show us whining babies how its done!
  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited June 25


    Since the last patch, mechanics chain more quickly and are to be timed a bit differently, duration/enemies hit points have been increased to a crazy stupid level, white noise damage has been increased

    White noise damage has been reduced to 0 like 2 months ago. Weight of Virtue damage (what you mean) has been reduced this last patch as well as judgement damage being reduced and probably also some other mechanics as well. Please don't assume stuff ;-)

    I for one can't wait to take up this new challenge, sounds like fun!
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited June 25


    Since the last patch, mechanics chain more quickly and are to be timed a bit differently, duration/enemies hit points have been increased to a crazy stupid level, white noise damage has been increased

    Weight of Virtue damage (what you mean) has been reduced this last patch as well as judgement damage being reduced and probably also some other mechanics as well. Please don't assume stuff ;-)
    Well maybe it has been reduced but with the last patch nerfing healers even more, everything hurt more and kill because healers can't cope with several mechanics in a row, especially when it is a combo healer paladin+healer warlock. It is really frustrating to have reached such a weakness in heals .
    I am wondering how will be the heatwave in Tomm on preview tonight^^.

  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    I'm pretty much not gonna run tomm OR zariel next mod. Funny how we now more and more often get these mods that take away stuff. Brilliant.
  • nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    While i do like the general increased difficulty the lack of decent rewards make it a preview trial.
    A preview trial is a thing which is quite fun but only on the preview server. Another thing about it is that now it takes considerably more time to clear.

    Don't get me wrong, the general confusion of my group and the hilarity that ensued when angels didn't spawn at 50% was pure gold and these are the moments that make gaming fun. BUT PEOPLE WON'T RUN IT ENOUGH FOR THOSE MOMENTS TO APPEAR !


    Now i don't want to sound like a broken record so here's some legitimate bug reports and feedback:


    1. When the spinning portals happen in phase3 the background is buggy as hell, it happens consistently and the best way to explain it is: textures outside the arena pop in and out of existance for about one frame when you move your camera during the spinning portals mechanic. (happened on everyone's screen)

    2. Some of those same portals have a random chance of shooting outwards. Practically portals were shooting outwards without showing a red area in the arena (but still doing damage, i checked and hey hurt, also this only happened on my screen)



    1. Tone down the rate at which the hope bar empties during the second phase, but just by a very small amount. If you overdo it the entire phase will just become trivial again. But as it currently stands it's depleting way too fast for certain team compositions to get through

    2. you thought you got past the broken record rant? add good loots pls
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 116 Arc User
    I have the feeling that the devs are not payd for their work. Because the rewarding concept in this game works like ~ you will have to run this piece of content for the next 30 minutes and we may allow you to roll the end chests to spend 40k Ad for a chance to get the shiny useless Blood Ruby ~ If for you @asterdahl is an achievement to just complete your content once, then make it a limited time event. I am pretty sure you won t stay 1 more minute at work if the company will not pay you for your time spent to work. I am not asking for a return of investiment but having to grid for enchantments just to make my endgame pointless it is just a game braker and there is no reason for me to play. I hardly encourage you to look at other ways to milk people`s pokets other than throwing some r15`s in the Zen Market in hope that people will gear for your miraculous endgame new Trial and get a HAMSTER Blood Ruby. I tryed hard to make a calm commentary on this one but I am nervous because l love this game and with every decission your team make I continue wondering myself how longer I will endure until I will give up and move to another game. I have huge investiments in your game because I tried to support your company to invest in people to make a gameplay that will entertain me and keep me engaged. I feel like I just got scammed moraly for that. I wrote that because I am pretty sure once the new mod will hit live server it will be just another Cryptic`s fiasco type of content with few new weapon/armor sets, one mount and a new adventure zone full of bugs. Why I say that? Because you guys are overcomed by the situation due the lack of management and time. We saw that with Bel`s episode that took you over 4 weeks to fix it, and it is not entirely polished still. If you are not able to release a good quality expansion every 3 months just extend the development time up to 6 months but give us something that will worth the time spent.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,266 Arc User
    edited June 26

    Tone down the rate at which the hope bar empties during the second phase or remove it completely,already the increase to bosses hp is too much and the balls are enough as a mechanic.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    Tales of old was a great concept. Why not that? Damn, it's like you're trying to ruin the game.
  • abuzittinreyizabuzittinreyiz Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited June 26
    nooneatza said:

    In phase 2 (at the shade of ice and fire), if the tanks dont execute it perfectly the two fiends start clipping together, i assume because they use the exact same AI.
    In other words, this means that if one tank messes up and the other one gets aggro on both for a second or so, the fiends fuse together and you can no longer recover from that since they start walking and attacking in absolute sync.

    Unless this is intended a possible fix would be to make it so that the fiends can't clip through each other.

    Still regarding phase 2, after the big overhead smash when you are supposed to swap aggro, increase the time the fiend doesn't attack by one second or so. With two paladin tanks we have no issue aggro swapping because smite is ranged. But in a party with no paladin tanks they dont have enough time to switch, so they "get their butt slapped" on the way to swap aggro, that is not survivable without loads of temp hp or a deflection(and you cant block it because...you're walking away ! hence the "butt slapping")
    It's not that it's impossible to do, but two barb tanks in the same group would get their butt slapped as they walk away alot more than two paladins, which just makes it unfair towards the barbs.
    As i said above, feedback is: increase time between overhead smash and next hit by some amount (not a big amount, otherwise it becomes too easy)


    ***when i ran my paladin with a barb tank we did get through it but i was the one whose butt got slapped, since he couldnt take it from me as he walked, but i learned to use tab during aggro swap, so i survived, barely***



    this was reported a month ago, but still not fixed and there is less than a week until the mod comes to live servers. please fix it and increase the timer on phase 2 a bit.

    additionally, i think that phase 4 angels' damage should be decreased because of the recent heal n̶e̶r̶f̶s̶ adjustments.
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    Yes... Burn it all down
Sign In or Register to comment.