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Mod 19 new trial fast guide (phase 1-4; upgrading)

superstevenshusuperstevenshu Member Posts: 188 Arc User
edited June 2 in General Discussion (PC)
Mod 19 new trial quick guide (upgrading) check NW pve discord: https://discord.gg/mrKuNRn

This guide covers most of the mechanisms in phase 1 and phase 2 to provide a quick guild for beginers of the new trial. It doesn't cover all the details of boss rotation. Sometimes several mechanisms happen at the same time. Boss rotation usually follows the same order but there is a little randomness there (For example, sometimes you need to judge whether to spread or stay close) The general feeling is very like TOMM.


Recommend stats:
dps
190k+ power, 90k offensive stats, 140k combat advantage, 90k defense, 500k hp

Healer:
OP: 200k powe, 150k+ crit, 90k defense, 500k hp
DC/SW 170k+ power, 200k+ crit, 90k defense, 500k hp

Tank
90k defense/deflect, crit avoidance 95k (op 105k), 900k+ hp, 90k armor pen/crit

For OP they should rely more on critical touch so they can further reduce crit to get more power stats.

notice crit avoidance is less useful in new mod
There are not many mechanisms that would reply on the crit avoidance of healer (like in tomm 2x hypo)

(Feel free to supplement/correct me if there is anything wrong in that quick guide)

Post edited by superstevenshu on

Comments

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User
    Healing was buffed, especially single target heals
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User
    One side of the equation getting their values lowered while the other side gets raised doesn't always mean it is a nerf. Take some time to get use to the mechanical changes instead of rushing to conclusions. I will concede that AoE healing got nerfed a bit, however your point being how to heal a 900k HP tank is mostly single target, and for cleric at least, that was in fact buffed.
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    One side of the equation getting their values lowered while the other side gets raised doesn't always mean it is a nerf. Take some time to get use to the mechanical changes instead of rushing to conclusions. I will concede that AoE healing got nerfed a bit, however your point being how to heal a 900k HP tank is mostly single target, and for cleric at least, that was in fact buffed.

    If "less AoE heals and more single target heals" was adequate, SW wouldn't be the less desired healer since M16.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 913 Arc User

    arazith07 said:

    Healing was buffed, especially single target heals

    No it wasn't buffed. It's been nerfed big time. Is this some type of mind trick you're trying to play on me? Healers have been nerfed into the dirt, this is the biggest nerf I have ever seen to a healer class in any MMO and you're going to try and tell me this is somehow a buff?
    have you actually tried it?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User
    200k power is more than reasonable to ask for endgame content imo. This trial is to be the same difficulty level as what ToMM used to be, but with more gear. AoE healing isn't meant to be spammed. Single target heals are now much more resource efficient and if everyone in the group needs a heal all at once and in a consistent basis, the group is messing up. For LoMM, most healers overheal at the second boss. They should only have to heal AoE heal every 3-4 blasts, the dps should be using dodges, not at every blast but enough to limit damage and still have stamina for another dodge for those immunity frames.
  • kranky#1106 kranky Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    arazith07 said:

    Healing was buffed, especially single target heals

    No it wasn't buffed. It's been nerfed big time. Is this some type of mind trick you're trying to play on me? Healers have been nerfed into the dirt, this is the biggest nerf I have ever seen to a healer class in any MMO and you're going to try and tell me this is somehow a buff?
    have you actually tried it?
    actually yes i have i spent a ton of AD and time farming to get my DC where it is at 61.5% outgoing healing (4 boons / 5x leg comps / 30 wisdom) with 160k base power and 220k crit (for the 50% chance at crit heal) and about 90% crit sev i do a good job i pay attention use heals as needed and usually dont have to many issues. its a bit harder running with new undergeared players but it can be done. now i have 24.5% outgoing and my crit sev is cut in half on top of that you reduce all tanks incoming by 25% and then say btwe you can no longer pray to recharge your div???? sooooo what i use my div almost fully in worm boss LOMM then i pray to be ready for round 2. that wont work now it takes a long time for div to recharge in combat and not all toons are geared to the teeth and many need more healing then the 1%'rs doing endgame stuff so what now let them die to conserve div for more efficient healing? every res sick makes group weaker and lack of dps will cause a fail as often as a weak tank or healer.

    so yes i have went to preview and tested and tried and i will say this healers are getting NERFED extra hard right in the A** and anyone who thinks otherwise gluck being an endgame healer they want to close the gap between new and vet players and all they did was increase the gap no one will just take any healer now they will be looking at the stats and if they are not high enough it will be a no ty. making the game become more of an elitist thing for any new content (just like TOMM) only 2 or 3% of players will run it successfully and if you have no exp you dont get to go. this game is going to pay to succeed why else put the ability to spend money and get r15 enchants/ bondings. you will see
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User
    I actually am not a beta tester for M19, though I am a long time player who has seen the ups and downs. I only saw the changes just last night. Clearly you aren't going to move from your position or debate without resorting to name calling, we've hijacked this thread for long enough. We should leave the thread and let those who wish to discuss the trial and how to beat it have at it.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,201 Arc User
    edited May 24
    (mod removed quote)

    Here is a quote about why the healing changes were made from 1 of the devs (to be clear, he is not the developer responsible for the changes):
    Lassor said:


    I'm starting to feel like a broken record at this point, but just to cover my bases here as well. The healing changes were done to give healers more viable options, address aoe healing being far too potent & resource efficient, and to lessen the massive divide that existed between BiS healers/groups and your average healer/group.
    Single target healing is far more potent and resource efficient now.
    AoE healing is less potent and less resource efficient now.
    If you default to AoE healing in all situations then you will likely run out of resources. If you single target heal when it's appropriate and use AoE heals only when they are needed you should find that your divinity resources are much more manageable.

    1. If you spammed AoE heals all the time before and you continue to do so now - you are intended to run out of resources.
    2. If you are careful with your divinity usage and instead heal when allies drop to low HP values, you should manage just fine.
    3. This is a buff to single target heals.
    Yes, other MMOs have Macros. You know what else they have? power trays with more than 3 encounters, 2 at wills and 2 dailies. Here is what the power bar of a healer in tera looks like:

    Please take note there are more than 7 powers on the bar. Tera, for your information, does not have macros (although it does support power chaining but only bad players do that). Healers there have to juggle far more things, from buffing, to cleansing various statuses with different cleanses, to resurrections in addition to healing.

    Fortunately for you, this is NW and not Tera, where you just need to worry about single target and AoE healing, with 3 different encounters. Oh, the Horror! How will you ever manage! Fortunately for you, the targets that usually need to be healed with single target spells (the tanks) are expected to stand apart from the group, typically on the opposite side of the boss (to grant combat advantage) and thus are very easy to target, because they are the only ones standing there.

    Not to say that there aren't good reasons to complain about the healer reworks, for example I have seen some very valid criticism like the icon for the marks being too small so its difficult to see who the healer has marked, or I have seen some healers complain it feels like they have less to do now. But otherwise, this is not so much a nerf so much as it is changing the way healers are expected to play.

    Now, on the subject of the new trial, you can see some of the more experienced groups running it here:


    The healers there are managing just fine.
    Post edited by frozenfirevr on
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    I believe that the major complaint about single target healing is that 90% of the time, The auto target will shift the heal to someone who does not need the heal.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User
    So you are angry that they took your preferred playstyle and got rid of it...that is a very different thing than saying that the heals were nerfed or that Soulweaver is trash. I can understand being angry that your play style has been broken. Most Warlocks that go Soulweaver do it for the healing though, countless people have asked for it to provide more for the party. It wouldn't make sense for a company to ignore a large part of the community for the benefit of a few, like what it seems you want here.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User
    edited May 24
    (mod removed quote)

    I am referring to your solo play style. Where you want to be a healer and dps at the same time. Instead of having 2 loadouts, you want both at the same time. Hellbringer is your traditional Warlock that just does damage. Soulbringer is a healer, it doesn't need to do damage to gain souls anymore. If anything the closest type of healing Warlock in DnD is the Celestial pact Warlock, which aside from Vampiric touch (which is a self heal only), there really isn't any siphoning happening.

    Being able to just sit and face tank bosses if you are not the tank is overpowered and potentially game breaking and is part of the issue that this change is supposed to fix.

    No one on these forums are for nerfing healers, and really the only thing that was nerfed is AoE healing because it was way too overpowered before, but single target has been massively buffed. If you want to compare this to the tabletop game, take a look at healing spells, most are single target and any AoE ones are less potent than the ST one and requires a higher level spell slot.
    Post edited by frozenfirevr on
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    I do find it confusing that the say the AOE healing was too potent? For whom? Why was it too powerful? What harm was it causing? All this change really seems to be doing is to is make it harder for groups to do/survive harder content? Am I missing something? They want less people to succeed in group content? Are too many people currently beating the hardest content in the game? I'm not being flippant I just don't understand the logic.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User

    I do find it confusing that the say the AOE healing was too potent? For whom? Why was it too powerful? What harm was it causing? All this change really seems to be doing is to is make it harder for groups to do/survive harder content? Am I missing something? They want less people to succeed in group content? Are too many people currently beating the hardest content in the game? I'm not being flippant I just don't understand the logic.

    It made single target heals less desirable and thus not picked up or used often. We were also getting to the point of players being in one of two states, full HP or dead, which the devs did not want when M16 came out. They also wanted to lower to the divide between BiS healers and average healers by focusing on ST heals being more efficient.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    I do find it confusing that the say the AOE healing was too potent? For whom? Why was it too powerful? What harm was it causing? All this change really seems to be doing is to is make it harder for groups to do/survive harder content? Am I missing something? They want less people to succeed in group content? Are too many people currently beating the hardest content in the game? I'm not being flippant I just don't understand the logic.

    It made single target heals less desirable and thus not picked up or used often. We were also getting to the point of players being in one of two states, full HP or dead, which the devs did not want when M16 came out. They also wanted to lower to the divide between BiS healers and average healers by focusing on ST heals being more efficient.
    Ok, how does making ST healing more efficient close the gap between BiS and lower healers? Instead of healing more targets at the same time they will just be healing different individual targets that will take longer thus increasing the chances those not receiving heals will die?
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 550 Arc User
    I honestly am not sure, I just know that is a statement from a dev, granted one who wasn't in charge of the healing rework.
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 418 Arc User
    edited May 24
    arazith07 said:

    I do find it confusing that the say the AOE healing was too potent? For whom? Why was it too powerful? What harm was it causing? All this change really seems to be doing is to is make it harder for groups to do/survive harder content? Am I missing something? They want less people to succeed in group content? Are too many people currently beating the hardest content in the game? I'm not being flippant I just don't understand the logic.

    It made single target heals less desirable and thus not picked up or used often. We were also getting to the point of players being in one of two states, full HP or dead, which the devs did not want when M16 came out. They also wanted to lower to the divide between BiS healers and average healers by focusing on ST heals being more efficient.
    I would like to correct one thing here: Single target heal was less desirable because it was simply impossible to use outside the "remove ME debuffs during the transport-gate countdown". The only ST heal usable in an actual combat had auto-aim on the lowest HP party member. Without it - in 90% cases - you could not use it, because of both your own skill and the randomness of players around.

    Have you ever tried to dispose the group of the manticore poison in SVA by a ST heal?
    That is a lovely task.

    Standard random group is a mess. You cannot target anyone specifically, because it will take more than 5 tries to hit what you want. By that time, the person is dead anyway, so no point in trying.

    Making ST heal the basis of healing... effectively means removing random queues, stuff like Tales of the Old - literally most of the content where people do not strictly follow the perfect pattern. So, most of the content - and where people behave like people.

    We are not all that skilled to fight target mechanism in a fast pace game.

    That said, I haven't played anything on preview and am generally miserable healer. But if moving from AoE to ST is a thing - like hell there would remain any part-time healers in the game.
  • keru#9279 keru Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    > @kranky#1106 said:
    > (Quote)
    > actually yes i have i spent a ton of AD and time farming to get my DC where it is at 61.5% outgoing healing (4 boons / 5x leg comps / 30 wisdom) with 160k base power and 220k crit (for the 50% chance at crit heal) and about 90% crit sev i do a good job i pay attention use heals as needed and usually dont have to many issues. its a bit harder running with new undergeared players but it can be done. now i have 24.5% outgoing and my crit sev is cut in half on top of that you reduce all tanks incoming by 25% and then say btwe you can no longer pray to recharge your div???? sooooo what i use my div almost fully in worm boss LOMM then i pray to be ready for round 2. that wont work now it takes a long time for div to recharge in combat and not all toons are geared to the teeth and many need more healing then the 1%'rs doing endgame stuff so what now let them die to conserve div for more efficient healing? every res sick makes group weaker and lack of dps will cause a fail as often as a weak tank or healer.
    >
    > so yes i have went to preview and tested and tried and i will say this healers are getting NERFED extra hard right in the A** and anyone who thinks otherwise gluck being an endgame healer they want to close the gap between new and vet players and all they did was increase the gap no one will just take any healer now they will be looking at the stats and if they are not high enough it will be a no ty. making the game become more of an elitist thing for any new content (just like TOMM) only 2 or 3% of players will run it successfully and if you have no exp you dont get to go. this game is going to pay to succeed why else put the ability to spend money and get r15 enchants/ bondings. you will see

    I do agree with you on all. And to be honest I think i'm done playing NW for good this time!!!
  • kranky#1106 kranky Member Posts: 22 Arc User

    arazith07 said:

    I do find it confusing that the say the AOE healing was too potent? For whom? Why was it too powerful? What harm was it causing? All this change really seems to be doing is to is make it harder for groups to do/survive harder content? Am I missing something? They want less people to succeed in group content? Are too many people currently beating the hardest content in the game? I'm not being flippant I just don't understand the logic.

    It made single target heals less desirable and thus not picked up or used often. We were also getting to the point of players being in one of two states, full HP or dead, which the devs did not want when M16 came out. They also wanted to lower to the divide between BiS healers and average healers by focusing on ST heals being more efficient.
    Ok, how does making ST healing more efficient close the gap between BiS and lower healers? Instead of healing more targets at the same time they will just be healing different individual targets that will take longer thus increasing the chances those not receiving heals will die?
    this is a load of HAMSTER... you say to lessen the gap between bis and average healers? who are you trying to kid? bis players will still be Bis (just with lower Outgoing healing) while average healers will just be worse off then they alrdy are. because bis players will alrdy still have best gear fully upgraded. and average players will still be trying to get there. only difference is average players will be less likely to succeed at dungeons they are currently succeeding in. like LOMM / CR / CN / CODG / TONG right now average players can do this because of AOE spells like bastion or healing word this allows them to hit groups and keep ppl close to full and then pray and repeat as needed. now with the lowering of OGH and ICH and loss of 50% crit sev as a healer they just will not be able to produce strong enough heals to keep full party alive.
    an average healer with 130-140k power and 40% OGH with decent crit chance can do LOMM because they can replenish div and power heal so they do not need to be super powered. but now healers without 180k power will not be wanted as their base heals just not strong enough. also single target heals is a joke obviously these devs never did and true randoms. because ppl dont stay in a nice little group so you can target and heal as needed. no freaking way ppl are all over the place teleporting shadow slipping dodging and moving around as a healer you cannot just target someone and heal them.... it may take several tries and you still lose the div even if the heal didnt succeed. and during that time you are struggling to heal that 1 person others might die. so yea you didnt close the gap at all you more then likely increased the gap and will most likely have many "average healers" give up and play dps as well as most ppl will no longer do true randoms they will do pre-made randoms to avoid the hassel and waisted time of getting an average healer that just isnt strong enough to keep everyone alive. so good job on making it even more difficult getting ppl to play a class that already does not have enough ppl playing already. way to go cryptic i swear the ppl that develope these ideas go on the rule of how can we best HAMSTER of the majority of the community with the next mod.
  • superstevenshusuperstevenshu Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    they nerfed aoe heal and buffed single target heal in preview, kinda unbalanced now especially if you test inside pvp, I bet there must be some changes coming...
  • superstevenshusuperstevenshu Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    thanks for the response, it seems more peopel are concerned about the healing changes in mod 19; as an OP healer I do not enjoy the change myself: 1. the play style changes too much 2. my play depends too much on other's performance and there are not much room there as a OP healer 3. the trial does not require precise movement/targeting anymore, all you need is to play the trial a hundred of times and know when to cast healing power (which covers all 10 players)
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