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The Infernal Citadel another BIS only Asset flip

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  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    nooneatza said:

    Just for the sake of the discussion. In m14 people were complaining everything was for bis players only (cr, codg, tong came before)

    So the devs added acq. inc., a full campaign dedicated to new players, with an equally easy skirmish.

    May i ask, why was that campaign so hated ?

    Low variety of repeatable quests, no new zones, and a thematic that doesn't fit the rest of the game (apart from maybe day of the dungeon master event). Worse, this was released after the freaking glorious Ravenloft module. Turn it around and tune it for bis players only and acq. inc. would still be a HAMSTER, regardless of how it's polished.
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited February 12
    mynaam said:

    The fact is For more than a year non bis players have had 0 content. many can't even do lomm and the BIS get fed and rest stepped on.

    For me, that's sound not different (though opposite xD) to something else we hear a lot and a lot : "Neverwinter is boring, there is nothing to do after endgame, no meaningful rewards in dungeons, no content to play with" etc.

    It's a MMO RolePlaying game. But nearly everyone just forget about roleplay (or doesn't really know what it means or implies in a multiplayer context).
    Players in NWO, for the vast majority, are nothing more than "adeptes du Gros Billisme" as we can say in french (i think "powergaming adepts" or "munchkinism adepts" are the closest equivalent in english ?) : constantly looking for more and more power, no real interest in the role or the story, mindset being wining at all cost even if it means disregarding other players, reading/watching tuto-soluce preemptively to their first run of anything, sometimes exploiting bugs and glitches, etc.

    I didn't care back in the old days having a BiS vorpal rapier+3 for 3 years without no more stuff to grind, or just a simple rapier +1. I didn't care the "endgame" dungeon was the same during 3 years, and i even didn't care if i was not strong enough to enter in it. Roleplay was simply an infinite content far more enjoyable to play with.

    But modern MMORPGs does not really invest in means of RP or RP tools (even cutting out those which were existing [foundry...]), and modern generations of players mostly play empty shells as characters, or more precisely shells filled with an insatiable appetite to consume the world to forever get stronger and stronger...

    I missed games with a strong enough RP community and where RP is the norm rather than only seen in one anecdotic room and practiced by, in the eyes of most of the players, some sort of weirdos aliens...
    Post edited by tchefi#6735 on
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    Issue is, if the game does nothing to encourage you to gear up, then what is the point of gear? I absolutely agree with you that dps and heal checks are generally all about numbers aka gear but the mentality of not requiring to gear up for new dungeons is wrong. Every new released content should be more tougher than its predecessor, otherwise where is the sense of progression? In fact, you at times sound to me that you would want a fresh lvl 80 player to be able to run every content, including TOMM. Accessibility is looked into, perhaps the best option is to make less difficult versions of each dungeon but i still think that even if IC was made easier, they should still encourage players to gear up, They can then can look into their design flaws of making everything a number check.

    There is definitely a huge jump from lvl 80 to BiS especially if you do not spend anything so that is another thing I can agree that needs to be adjusted.
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    *Muh BiS players ruining everything*.

    Not a single person i bothered asking about IC that has completed it is anywhere remotely close to BiS or has ran with anyone even remotely close to BiS, none of them have cheesed the dungeon with over performing classes or *mechanics* either.

    What i am seeing is people saying the dungeon is fun / adequately difficult but is absolutely worthless rewards wise so they are already bored of it / disappointed with the lack of replayability. For Neverwinter standards that is high praise. Personally, i'm skipping this Module entirely so i can't speak of IC but if people much less experienced and / or geared than i am ( no i am not BiS either ) say the dungeon is fine then i trust them over some random salty pseudo communist on the forum.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,117 Arc User
    *sigh* I really, really miss Foundry Hour. That always gave us something extra to do, and there was plenty of variety of content.

    Just saying...
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,182 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    *sigh* I really, really miss Foundry Hour. That always gave us something extra to do, and there was plenty of variety of content.

    Just saying...

    These days, I call it Netflex.
  • oxymaoxyma Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    Only the trashes ask for exp teammates.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,525 Arc User
    oxyma said:

    Only the trashes ask for exp teammates.

    What they are really looking for is a carry.
  • nic1985nic1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited February 13
    In response to the OP post "[Pro PlaYeR LfG...][email protected]: lf2m Citadel (heal, dps) exp speed runs" and other comments above.

    If people want to request "experienced","speed run","certain class","item levels" that is their call, seem like they know exactly what they want and good for them, even if I disagree with their requests. When you are not even part of the party/queue, it seem judgmental. To each their own and how they want to spend their in game time, calling people trash or assume they need a carry; I don't think that is good karma.
  • micheal1979micheal1979 Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    I was going to make a witty comment, but wow you all did it. New dungeon is great and I have already pulled many non bis through, as well as trained many in my guild on the dungeon. Yes, zerg channels will ask for experience it makes sense who wants to pug new end game content with people not ready. Go to your alliance, guild, friends list to find help in learning. The dungeon is visually my favorite since Ravenloft and I will keep running it. This was a nice return to 5 man content. Thank you dev team, also the relative lack of bugs with this new mod has been so refreshing keep it up.
  • franklin223franklin223 Member Posts: 41 Arc User

    mynaam said:

    The fact is For more than a year non bis players have had 0 content. many can't even do lomm and the BIS get fed and rest stepped on.

    For me, that's sound not different (though opposite xD) to something else we hear a lot and a lot : "Neverwinter is boring, there is nothing to do after endgame, no meaningful rewards in dungeons, no content to play with" etc.

    It's a MMO RolePlaying game. But nearly everyone just forget about roleplay (or doesn't really know what it means or implies in a multiplayer context).
    Players in NWO, for the vast majority, are nothing more than "adeptes du Gros Billisme" as we can say in french (i think "powergaming adepts" or "munchkinism adepts" are the closest equivalent in english ?) : constantly looking for more and more power, no real interest in the role or the story, mindset being wining at all cost even if it means disregarding other players, reading/watching tuto-soluce preemptively to their first run of anything, sometimes exploiting bugs and glitches, etc.

    I didn't care back in the old days having a BiS vorpal rapier+3 for 3 years without no more stuff to grind, or just a simple rapier +1. I didn't care the "endgame" dungeon was the same during 3 years, and i even didn't care if i was not strong enough to enter in it. Roleplay was simply an infinite content far more enjoyable to play with.

    But modern MMORPGs does not really invest in means of RP or RP tools (even cutting out those which were existing [foundry...]), and modern generations of players mostly play empty shells as characters, or more precisely shells filled with an insatiable appetite to consume the world to forever get stronger and stronger...

    I missed games with a strong enough RP community and where RP is the norm rather than only seen in one anecdotic room and practiced by, in the eyes of most of the players, some sort of weirdos aliens...
    Great post.

    After 37 years playing computer games, I am just bored with power-leveling and min/maxing and the recent go-go-go mentality of gamers.

    I can get bleeding edge challenging content at work. Each night when I log into play, I choose to do so the have some fun with engaging content.

    That is not what the last several mods have been about though. Cryptics thinks that by making Neverwinter into some modern MMO (all new content must calculating into a slim margin of victory) then it wont sustain itself. None of the players who defend that way of gaming pay money into the company.

    If the game is to go on, then it has to evolve away from the small minority of 'high-end' players and aim more towards the middle; those players buy Zen. Alternatively, the high-end can start buying $1,000 worth a Zen a month to try to keep the company afloat.

    There is no middle ground here. This is not about being good at a game because you follow some BiS done on a spreadsheet. This is about who is paying into a system for at 'free to pay' game because it needs cash to continue on.

    Always cater to the people who are paying you money. You all can hate on it - but that is really how 'free-to-play' games work.

  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 315 Arc User

    nooneatza said:

    Just for the sake of the discussion. In m14 people were complaining everything was for bis players only (cr, codg, tong came before)

    So the devs added acq. inc., a full campaign dedicated to new players, with an equally easy skirmish.

    May i ask, why was that campaign so hated ?

    Low variety of repeatable quests, no new zones, and a thematic that doesn't fit the rest of the game (apart from maybe day of the dungeon master event). Worse, this was released after the freaking glorious Ravenloft module. Turn it around and tune it for bis players only and acq. inc. would still be a HAMSTER, regardless of how it's polished.
    Oh, you forgot that after the first completion it is impossible to play anything from that campaign without muting the sound... I mean: if I heard those lines once, that was plenty for a lifetime already.
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 524 Arc User

    mynaam said:

    The fact is For more than a year non bis players have had 0 content. many can't even do lomm and the BIS get fed and rest stepped on.

    For me, that's sound not different (though opposite xD) to something else we hear a lot and a lot : "Neverwinter is boring, there is nothing to do after endgame, no meaningful rewards in dungeons, no content to play with" etc.

    It's a MMO RolePlaying game. But nearly everyone just forget about roleplay (or doesn't really know what it means or implies in a multiplayer context).
    Players in NWO, for the vast majority, are nothing more than "adeptes du Gros Billisme" as we can say in french (i think "powergaming adepts" or "munchkinism adepts" are the closest equivalent in english ?) : constantly looking for more and more power, no real interest in the role or the story, mindset being wining at all cost even if it means disregarding other players, reading/watching tuto-soluce preemptively to their first run of anything, sometimes exploiting bugs and glitches, etc.

    I didn't care back in the old days having a BiS vorpal rapier+3 for 3 years without no more stuff to grind, or just a simple rapier +1. I didn't care the "endgame" dungeon was the same during 3 years, and i even didn't care if i was not strong enough to enter in it. Roleplay was simply an infinite content far more enjoyable to play with.

    But modern MMORPGs does not really invest in means of RP or RP tools (even cutting out those which were existing [foundry...]), and modern generations of players mostly play empty shells as characters, or more precisely shells filled with an insatiable appetite to consume the world to forever get stronger and stronger...

    I missed games with a strong enough RP community and where RP is the norm rather than only seen in one anecdotic room and practiced by, in the eyes of most of the players, some sort of weirdos aliens...
    Great post.

    After 37 years playing computer games, I am just bored with power-leveling and min/maxing and the recent go-go-go mentality of gamers.

    I can get bleeding edge challenging content at work. Each night when I log into play, I choose to do so the have some fun with engaging content.

    That is not what the last several mods have been about though. Cryptics thinks that by making Neverwinter into some modern MMO (all new content must calculating into a slim margin of victory) then it wont sustain itself. None of the players who defend that way of gaming pay money into the company.

    If the game is to go on, then it has to evolve away from the small minority of 'high-end' players and aim more towards the middle; those players buy Zen. Alternatively, the high-end can start buying $1,000 worth a Zen a month to try to keep the company afloat.

    There is no middle ground here. This is not about being good at a game because you follow some BiS done on a spreadsheet. This is about who is paying into a system for at 'free to pay' game because it needs cash to continue on.

    Always cater to the people who are paying you money. You all can hate on it - but that is really how 'free-to-play' games work.

    I know, right? I guarantee that the BIS crowd who farmed TOMM and are now bored by it, are not the ones buying Zen. They are the millionaires and billionaires. They are the ones clogging up the ZAX with all of their requests for purchase of Zen. The people buying Zen with real money are the casual gamers who can't make enough in game to sustain their VIP membership so they have to buy it with real life money. And this is what irritates me with the devs' latest trends. They want to cater to the BIS crowd but they contribute zero Zen to the game, while the people who do put in real money, they don't give them hardly any new content since LOMM. Now we have Infernal Citadel, and while I haven't tried it yet, I'll try to keep an open mind about it. If it is like TOMM where only the BIS crowd can do it, then I will be really disappointed.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,011 Arc User
    edited February 18

    The way you go on and on about this topic @mynaam I would swear you were part of some Neverwinter Activist group. Maybe you should start one, I can even recommend a name, the "Economic Freedom Fighters." You fight against the BiS players, making sure to expropriate any content not aimed at the casual player without compensation directly into the hands of the poor, underprivileged casual. Make sure to include some songs like, "kill the bis."

    proletariat neverwinter avengers!

    Neverwinter Underachieving Marxist Bouncers! (numb) (I couldn't think of one that started with D....)



    But isn't the real problem with this newest dungeon being extra hard is that there is no real reason to run it? the rewards are pooh right? that's the real problem. if it's so pointless it should be easy for the low levels.

    the people that can afford to be geared for it aren't going to really bother once they've done it once or twice. and you end up with a brand new dungeon getting very little activity compared to older content. I was going to buy a few packs to speed up access (Xbox) but from all accounts no reason to. that's a serious flaw.

    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 751 Arc User

    The way you go on and on about this topic @mynaam I would swear you were part of some Neverwinter Activist group. Maybe you should start one, I can even recommend a name, the "Economic Freedom Fighters." You fight against the BiS players, making sure to expropriate any content not aimed at the casual player without compensation directly into the hands of the poor, underprivileged casual. Make sure to include some songs like, "kill the bis."

    proletariat neverwinter avengers!

    Neverwinter Underachieving Marxist Bouncers! (numb) (I couldn't think of one that started with D....)



    But isn't the real problem with this newest dungeon being extra hard is that there is no real reason to run it? the rewards are pooh right? that's the real problem. if it's so pointless it should be easy for the low levels.

    the people that can afford to be geared for it aren't going to really bother once they've done it once or twice. and you end up with a brand new dungeon getting very little activity compared to older content. I was going to buy a few packs to speed up access (Xbox) but from all accounts no reason to. that's a serious flaw.

    As a dps, I run it for helping friends healers and tank to loot their component for new gear, so maybe 6 runs a week, enough to get what friends want.

    Can't wait for it to be added to random queue lol
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