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I'm not sure why ppl think this game is so bad

rockkk52rockkk52 Posts: 19Member Arc User
Maybe it's because i played an indie mmo as my first rpg called Dragon nest. Every new mod was a new lvl cap and new gear and new challenges. Since i have been playing Neverwinter there's only been one lvl cap increase in 4 years. They retooled the combat bc with 100 percent chance to crit an insane burst meta the game would have been unable to progress well. Would have been dragon ball z spiral of more hp for bosses then theyd have to adjust the bufs of classes for more burst in a continuous cycle or the result would be a stagnation of progression regarding combat and content. So they adjusted stuff. There were understandably bugs as it was a whole combat/stat system overhaul. Its still a really fun game to play and theres not a whole lot of games out that that offer more in the rpg realm anyway. So i guess i just don't understand all the hate. They saved the game from ending pre mod 15 yet ppl still complain about mod 15 killing the game. Smh.

Comments

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,568Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Different people has different expectation.
  • originalsin#4257 originalsin Posts: 14Member Arc User
    They removed buffing, putting those who enjoyed the role out of a play style. Now I can pick between playing something I’m not interested in, or something I hate. What joy.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 1,339Member Arc User
    @rockkk52 that is not a very accurate of a statement. You have to remember, players come to the forum primarily to complain about a feature, bug, or glitch that hasn't been addressed in the game. That goes for most online games. Seldom will you see a topic titled "Cryptic Great Job - Your #1", there are a lot of negative issues on any forum. I am guilty of coming here to complain often, and someone today asked me in game chat, why do I play this game, if I hate it so much? I don't have love/hate issues with any game. They are all flawed in some way, all can use improvements, nothing is perfect. I play for fun. I have got upset and bumped heads with many people, but I hope they know the difference of opinion and certainty.

    I never like it when they remove so much, and tell you the game has been improved. I hope people know better. All online games have a limited "shelf life", and the idea here is, Neverwinter was not suppose to go on beyond 4 to 5 years before retirement. Let me explain what I mean by that statement. Back in 2016 Cryptic was working on Jurassic World MMO to be released along side their other games Champions Online and Star Trek. In short, it failed and we got Chult with the dinosaur models soon after. So the plan was to retire (automate and skeleton crew) Neverwinter as they have Champions, then move on to Jurassic World. Now the plan is to move on to Magic the Gathering. Unfortunately for Cryptic, both Neverwinter and Star Trek are bleeding off players fast, and they need to hustle to get the new game up and running.

    None of the Cryptic titles will "die" they will end up with loyalist players who refuse to abandon the game. Anyone who plays Champions knows what I mean, as most of the people there are doing their own thing. They seldom see new content, so most players use the game for 3D chat, costume contests, one on one PvP, etc.. Star Trek has a steady following, due to the fans of the series and movies, and will continue to get content. I don't know, if Neverwinter will get more Stardock quality modules once MtG is released, but I hope we continue to get better quality.

    I base all of this on opinion and experience. Guild Wars 2 was released in 2012, it only took 6 to 8 months for the population to return to the original game. Roughly a year after that, the sequel went free to play. The total population never returned, because they stopped making new content. There is about 4,500 of us still online, maybe a lot more. I have to base this on the numbers I see playing Factions PvP this year. I find time to play on Sat/Sun with them. One interesting fact, the original game is still selling (not free to play) unlike the sequel with very similar design to Neverwinter's gaming system. This was not an endorsement for Guild Wars, just using it as an example of what happens when any company makes a new game.
    Winter-Vacation.png
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 366Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    @rockkk52

    Short answer - because people here CARE FOR NEVERWINTER.


    Longer answer:

    Here is the place where only really commited and supporting players are to be found (mostly).
    Here are dozens of veteran, experienced and dedicated players, testers or even content creators.
    Sure you will find here some rants etc, but in general - however different opinions you can hear here - those have a common ground - its becouse people here care about this game.

    I belive you asking cos your perspective is different, and I assume here - you do not have substnial experience or knowledge about how this game looked like before. All the issues you described are correct - yet the ways a devs choose to slove them was in many points simply wrong, or suffered technical errors.

    I doubt I am gona be alone here - but I thnk most of us here deeply belive this game can be by any means - one of the best MMO games out there. But its not, and its not becouse lack of potential.

    Sure you could listen to players who never spend a dime on this game to support it, and for their kind a situation that this game current economy model "prey on the weak newcomers" is a favourite playground. It keeps their pockets full while this model in fact keep new players form staying here for good.
    Usually that kind of people feel proud and consider themselves "smart" as they were able to gathered much wealth in this game, while in fact in real life they lack of skills and knowledge to be able to earn enaugh money to afford to spend some to support the game their like.


    So its not about hating of changes, Changes are not "bad" by default
    I never heard about situation that people are complaining for a "good" changes witch makes their life better - like wage increase :D
    Most of the people complains here comes from a pretty same reason - current state of the game is more punishing, the more dedicated you are.

  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Posts: 575Member Arc User
    edited November 28

    People dont like changes. Is a human nature. They preffer to be bored and go to other game than accept changes.



    People complains everywhere. Usually people that complains most is people that are bad at gaming and tend to buy things with real money to compensate the lack of skill, instead of invest well. Also usually are bad in maths.



    But this people is good for the Game because thank to them, you can play the Game FTP and still make billions in the AH just using your brain.



    So let the complainers complain and support the game.

    Cool, you are thinking positive about the game. Lets say you have been playing since the launch and only only have 1 toon which is the wizard class. You invested all of your time getting maxed every mod. Spent a little bit money here and there cuz you love your wizard so much right. Wizards are most needed in group so that's another ++ cuz you feel like you're important and special and suddenly a new mod drop and everything changes. Your amazing wizard can no longer dps instead its been changed to cc only. Yup, no healing , no tanking, a lil bit dps just to do solo content but all you can do is freeze stuff lol.

    And before you know, no one wants to have a wizard in the group cuz cc are not needed on bosses.
    Now please tell me what you going to do about this.

    1) Be positive and make a new toon/class and start from scratch.
    2) Give up and stop playing the game.
    3) Continue playing your class you hate due to changes.
    4) Come here on forums and be dramatic about the changes.
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Posts: 102Member Arc User
    The vast majority of players that are active on the forums are clueless and bad,clueless bad players have a tendency to whine non stop - a lot of them barely play the game ( some don't AT ALL ) and whenever they do they put zero effort or thought into it. Is that a rude *elitist* thing to say? Sure, it is also true.

    There are plenty of legitimate grievances to be had with the current state of the game and plenty of actually smart and skilled players that provide and have provided feedback and suggestions but you won't find most of them around here anymore due to Cryptic's multi year long and probably ongoing failing to address the actual issues on time. There is only so much ignored feedback you can deal with before you throw your hands in the air and leave or just stick to playing with your friends and not bothering with forum discussions.

    We could be addressing the fundamental issue of the game being constantly dumbed down to the point of almost being accessible to toddlers yet we are here wasting our time arguing with said toddlers about how Tiamat is too hard because i don't know my brain can't handle it.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Posts: 714Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    Cool, you are thinking positive about the game. Lets say you have been playing since the launch and only only have 1 toon which is the wizard class. You invested all of your time getting maxed every mod. Spent a little bit money here and there cuz you love your wizard so much right. Wizards are most needed in group so that's another ++ cuz you feel like you're important and special and suddenly a new mod drop and everything changes. Your amazing wizard can no longer dps instead its been changed to cc only. Yup, no healing , no tanking, a lil bit dps just to do solo content but all you can do is freeze stuff lol.

    And before you know, no one wants to have a wizard in the group cuz cc are not needed on bosses.
    Now please tell me what you going to do about this.

    1) Be positive and make a new toon/class and start from scratch.
    2) Give up and stop playing the game.
    3) Continue playing your class you hate due to changes.
    4) Come here on forums and be dramatic about the changes.

    Yes, I understand your point, but this already happened to all classes. There will allways be some periods of the game (or entire mods) in witch your class will be less desired.

    Adapt or die. In your example, wizards are the most nerfed class in the history of the game. Even in those mods there were people adapting and giving the best they could, and others making the "toon of the mod" (for example a GWF in the buff era). Do you know which players were complaining? yes. Those that wanted the easy way.

    Even today, with some classes underperforming, I see lots of Barbarians and warlocks doing a very very good DPS for example. But there are others (those filling the forums with complains) that did a new char (rogue, wizard or ranger) and then they keep complaining mod after mod, change after change. Is an attitude problem.

    I dont say the game is ok, the game has thousands of bugs and things that can be done better, but people like this are more visible than others, because they are more time complaining than playing.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
  • nemesrichnemesrich Posts: 67Member Arc User
    Although I still enjoy this game as a longtime player I see deterioration. I mean good features are gone or replaced with mainly worse. I'm not against change if it means improvement.
    I made some friends over the years in game I just see all of them offline since the doom mod. It tells everything.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 1,339Member Arc User
    nemesrich said:

    Although I still enjoy this game as a longtime player I see deterioration. I mean good features are gone or replaced with mainly worse. I'm not against change if it means improvement.
    I made some friends over the years in game I just see all of them offline since the doom mod. It tells everything.

    My whales haven't resurfaced this month, friends I know, who visit this game to buy loot box keys and Zen for cash money. I don't or can't blame mod 16 for this as they showed up for Stardock. I saw a couple around Halloween, and they were asking more about my family than game status. I was expecting these people to be online for Black Friday and the new loot box, so far none have contacted me about any personal issues. I am going to wait until Friday before bothering them with a phone call or emails.

    Many of them are just off playing other games or doing other hobbies. One of them is a skydiver and he worries me the most. I know more than one that continues to show me, new games they are busy playing. With the announcement of Jan 21st being the kick off date for the next mod, I will be taking off shortly to play on other games until then. I doubt there will be any "surprises" this Winter but I will keep an eyeball on the news here.

    I agree we all want positive changes and that means growth. But in the future, Neverwinter will be reduced to a social 3D chat room where you can also play games with your friends. It is not deterioration, it is just the life cycle of all online games.

    Winter-Vacation.png
  • utookmynickutookmynick Posts: 161Member Arc User
    edited November 28
    rockkk52 said:

    They saved the game from ending pre mod 15 yet ppl still complain about mod 15 killing the game. Smh.

    Most of the changes were needed. However, some of the changes hurt people who had invested heavily (time and/or money) in the game pre-mod 15. Some of these changes may not have been as critical or could have been implemented in way that protected previous investments. I think this is what most people are upset about.

  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 1,339Member Arc User
    @rockkk52 and @utookmynick Are you saying module 15 Acquisitions Incorporated released November 5, 2018 or module 16 Undermountain released April 23, 2019? You are confusing the heck out me. I know M15 didn't do the game any favors, but I don't blame M16 for the changes made to the game mechanics. Overall M16 content was a lot better than M15. I really liked the changes to the fashions and dyes. However the generic game mechanics, scaling, and removal of buffs had nothing to do with M16. I see all of those changes as a separate act made at the same time of the release. As bad as M15's content was to swallow, I don't see it as a game wrecker.
    So what is it that module 15 did to this game?
    Winter-Vacation.png
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Posts: 575Member Arc User
    There were a lot neverwinter streamers/content creaters supporting the game before release of mod16.
    Most of us were watching it. After playing the game we took a break and relax while enjoying their live stream.
    Sadly most of them are gone now because they didn't like the changes of mod16, but does this affect neverwinter?
    The answer is a big yes. Free advertisement is always good for a game, don't ya think?
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • utookmynickutookmynick Posts: 161Member Arc User

    @rockkk52 and @utookmynick Are you saying module 15 Acquisitions Incorporated released November 5, 2018 or module 16 Undermountain released April 23, 2019?

    My bad. I meant pre-mod 16.

  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 173Member Arc User
    So here is a small example of my frustrations as a LOOOONG time player.
    I could invest points in perks and traits and play differently from the wizard right next to me.
    If i got stuck, i could switch out my powers in my vast spell book and try a different approach, going from an Arcane machinegun DPS to a debuffer to a crowd controller with a few power swaps, all for free. Each class had a specialty but could stand well enough on their own to be a joy to play without sacrificing anything. Groups could be Dynamic, for the fun of it i heard people chatting about doing "all warrior runs" and "Priest parades" of high level content.

    Mod16 comes along and i am restricted to half the spells i used to have access to, some of which were nerfed or made weaker with the feat changes, the feats are fewer and more railrodey in their use, "pick this feat and you have to use these powers or be impotent" kind of thing. I take damage must more than i used to so some content is impossible to do alone, even single player campeign missions, objectives which they put in areas that would spawn heroic encounters that obstruct you completely from doing a task, meaning i had to wait a timer out or skirt carefully around an area and hope i doon't aggro so i can interact with a few required things.
    Healing potions are weakened and near useless now.
    healing companions are weakened and unreliable.
    Solo play is more difficult and less of the casual romp i enjoyed before. Some Design choices now come off as hostile to the solo player.
    Class re-balances took away variety and restricted or even eliminated certain play-styles.
    Companions sometimes just don't work and there seems to be no fix in sight for them.

    The story part of mod16, undermountain was wonderful, but i had to go at it weakened, relearning all the mechanics and instincts i had built up over years and fun moments were constantly ruined by bugs, and glitches.

    Mod17 with the appearance system is good and gave us a new method of self expression but the underlying problems of Mod16's doctrine are still there even if they have been mitigated somewhat only after lots of Player outcry. Now i am worried that the play style i have relearned is going to be wiped away with the next module.

    I have been playing since December 2013, i have 6 years of on and off investment in this game and i don't see myself leaving any time soon but sometimes i feel like the devs are trying to wipe away all the things that initially drew me to the game.

    i love this game. LOVE IT! but i often feel i have to fight tooth and nail to keep the enjoyment i had and i think others just decided that it wasn't worth their time so wrote a negative review and left. I am vocal because i want this game to do well, i complain in hopes that the capricious Devs take note and not burn down the fun latest thing i found to do in the game.

    I still have hope that the game will get better but stuff like mod 16, a sweeping system change with very little discussion and and reams of ignored feedback on the preview forums have shaken my optimistic outlook on the game. I know at any moment it can become something Lesser than it was.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • kors#9447 kors Posts: 66Member Arc User
    With the introduction of Mod 16 the game was supposed to be improved, but what happened it's the total opposite.
    Of course there are good changes, but there are also many, many, many things bugged or not working. Mod 16 brought many bugs and unbalances as well as the totally absence of a good combat system (as it was before).
    About the unbalances I'm not talking about only classes, but also campaigns, maps, dungeons. For a new player there is no challenge to do the maps to level up the character and get a bit of knowledge of the class and game, then, the same player, goes in queue and it's not able to complete it.
    Also, again, the total lack of upgrading tooltips and so on. Where a new player should get informations about the game? There are sources outside the game (Google, Reddit and so on), but the in-game source has to be upgraded.
    Scaling is trash.
    Bosses in dungeons and dungeons in general are messed up.
    IL in random queues is even more trash than scaling.

    I would stop here otherwise this message can be too long. But, basically, from MY point of view the game lost many things compared with what it was before. The number of improvements is little compared with the number of "mistakes" have been done since Mod 16 release.
    I hope next Mod 18 can bring back to us a more enjoyable game, with the fixes of the biggest bugs as well as closer balance of classes and contents in general. And, last but not least, I really hope the combat system can be good again.
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