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Way to nerf heals

rammdozerrammdozer Posts: 19Member Arc User
For starters I am entirely aggravated with the decision to make heals less potent I just went through a redq where the tank healed for more than my pally heals....let me state again all I did was heal, also to which i have your precious % increase outgoing heal companions which do little to nothing at all... how in the hell does a pally tank out heal a pally healer by 4 mil in a redq this is simply unacceptable your more worried about your goddamn income than you are fixing the mistakes you made..seriously this is not going to help at all, idk what the hell you were on when you "fixed" the heals in the last mod... sincerely I used to love this game but like a HAMSTER in a wedding dress this probably won't end well for either of us. This is pure and simple wrong there should be no reason even a weak build healer should be out healed by a tank ..... no excuses...the build is the same build that works in lomm and tomm but in a redq scaling its pretty much nil.... come on you can do better than that.....it's sad to see this game fall so far.

Comments

  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Posts: 102Member Arc User
    edited November 23
    Healing is impacted the most by scaling, every dungeon in REDQ is scaled differently. Also, healers were buffed with the formula changes recently.

    Self healing is counted towards total heals in the run - someone self healing a lot is not the same as them out healing a healer, stop it.

    1/2 to 2/3 of what a Paladin Healer does is shielding, not healing. Shielding is not counted towards healing the same way blocking attacks is not counted towards damage taken but i'm sure you knew that already.

    Have you considered the fact that maybe you also didn't do your job properly in that REDQ?
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,507Member Arc User
    @oldtimer is 100% right. The most likely scenario was probably some mix of the following:

    • Pally tank may be running with insignia bonuses to self heal
    • Pally tank may have a high incoming heal to boost his self heals
    • Pally tank may be running companions to boost incoming healing
    • Pally tank may be running Shield of Faith which, under certain conditions, will heal the group when you heal the pally but count towards the tanks heal amount
    • Pally healer took a huge hit to power in scaling largely affecting their heals
    • Pally healer isn't as great at healing as they thought they were (i say this because my wife's oathkeeper has never been outhealed by any tank – though I have put up some good heal numbers on my justicar and kept it interesting)
  • emese#4731 emese Posts: 32Member Arc User
    edited November 25
    I do think that an OP healer can heal effectively yet not be a top healer on the list. I say it as my OP tank has tons of self heal build in and I am often the 2nd healer though I do not heal at all (I mean using heal encounters). I am still working out my pally heal but I noticed that my goal is not constantly spam heal but rather keep the shield up. In tales of old I healed with a DC and he had 2x as much heals as I did. I used my heals to reinforce the shields. So what I think...and maybe I am wrong..is that an OP healer is different and his goal is primarily to keep the shield on players and that doesn't needs to be spammed constantly but rather to be refreshed when expired. This means less casting of healing spells....not sure if casting the spell or the actual healing is what count for the final score though
  • killzoneexkillzoneex Posts: 92Member Arc User
    edited November 30



    Have you considered the fact that maybe you also didn't do your job properly in that REDQ?

    No, he's correct. I had just finished an easy lomm run with a great group and great healer. We decided to run a redq and we ended up in VT. The healer was complaining the whole run about just how badly scaled his healing was. Was a DC healer too, not OP like the OP. He said he was healing like mad and it was barely budging anyone's bars. Now if you mean he should have swapped to dps instead of banging his head against the wall with crappy scaled heals, then I guess he wasn't doing his job. In any case we didn't have any problems doing the run, but this isn't the first time I heard complaints about just how bad healing gets scaled down.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 412Member Arc User
    I have seen this happen quite often when running my Paladin Justicar. The reason is a combination of my build type and the fact that healers were either underporforming or were not able to target me. My build is very high Health and only moderate defense. This means I get hit for high damage. When under half health I hit a Stone of Health... which heals all HP. In heavy combat I was healing myself for up to 1 million damage per minute with Stone of Health.
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Posts: 102Member Arc User
    edited November 30



    Have you considered the fact that maybe you also didn't do your job properly in that REDQ?

    No, he's correct. I had just finished an easy lomm run with a great group and great healer. We decided to run a redq and we ended up in VT. The healer was complaining the whole run about just how badly scaled his healing was. Was a DC healer too, not OP like the OP. He said he was healing like mad and it was barely budging anyone's bars. Now if you mean he should have swapped to dps instead of banging his head against the wall with crappy scaled heals, then I guess he wasn't doing his job. In any case we didn't have any problems doing the run, but this isn't the first time I heard complaints about just how bad healing gets scaled down.
    Did you miss the part where i pointed out that healing is the most affected by scaling? It was the first thing i mentioned in my post. I main a Cleric since Mod 16, your not telling me anything i don't already know. Is Heal scaling annoying? Yes. Is it an actual problem? No.

    No decent Cleric / Warlock Healer will get out healed in any piece of content ( scaled or not ) by anything other than another Cleric or Warlock Healer. A properly played ( or very poorly played ) and scaled Paladin Healer CAN get out healed by a properly spec'd Tank with healing insignia bonuses but that has absolutely nothing to do with scaling or Paladin Healers being weak.

    The OP is not correct about anything because they don't even understand their own role as Paladin Healer - the less healing you've done as a Paladin, the better your performance was. Unless of course you also never shielded anyone, in that case you were just useless.

    Whining by one person does not validate the stupidity of another. What @emese said is what is actually correct.
  • kstubble#4883 kstubble Posts: 19Member Arc User
    a tank with high hp can get huge healing numbers by using stones of health which along with high incoming healing can give up to a million heals each use (depending on the dungeon and scaling)


  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,291Member Arc User
    edited November 30
    I also did recognize a significant difference when running downscaled dungeons on my healer, some things might be crappy scaling or simply bugged, many player stopped mentioning bugs since the ammount of bugs is so large , most of those bugs don't get touched in a year, maybe never will.
    Beside that I can run every content so far without struggeling that much.

    -->About tank and selfheal...I recognized some pretty strong selfheals in some OP/tank-builds too (concerning Paingiver), maybe due to the build or another bug - I am pretty sure the teammember mentioned it's caused by a daily.
    I assume this is caused by shield of faith + Sheltering light (Whenever you are healed, partymembers under the effect of shield of faith are healed for 50% of that value ! Having 45% incoming healing as a tank + daily + plus that feat = big heals for the group.
    Anyway that OP tank was not better in terms of survivability than other tanks (subjective), imo barbs are the most resistant tanks actually (subjective).

    As an Oathkeeper i do about 70% or more by shielding damage, so when your DC-mate does 2 or 3 times of your healing, you should take a close look into ACT, to get to the point that your amount of healing plus ammount of shieling equals out (or even beats) that DC in the end and your 350k shield prevents sudden death far more comfortable than anything else !
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • rammdozerrammdozer Posts: 19Member Arc User
    Just as a point of mention I have been with this game from day 1 beta.... not some starter mod 16 healer with a god complex and as such have way more of an idea of what has been done to nerf heals from day 1 .......that being said the reason nerfs are made are usually due to pvp players losing their HAMSTER and pve players not understanding why the heals and or skills are nerfed.

    My complaint is simply stating that as for the scaling yes it blows they havent found the way to fix that ...and as for the doing my part quote....you can't heal stupid when they stand in the red on the boss in a epic cc while they are on fire.....the point was if it wasn't for the nerf (which in this case is the scaling) healing the dummies in the red and on fire would be no prob...as for the comment about pally justicar self heal, it is my opinion that a tank in a party should not be able to outheal a healer that is my main complaint....with all the nerfs done to this game from day one, as well as the now limited options with powers and feats for a tank to be able to outheal a healer is total nonsense.
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Posts: 102Member Arc User
    rammdozer said:

    Just as a point of mention I have been with this game from day 1 beta.... not some starter mod 16 healer with a god complex

    Your comments show a fundamental misunderstanding of how your class and the game overall works and you want to turn this into a e-peen measuring contest...really? I've been here just as long as you have buddy and i and nobody else i know experiences these *problems* you complain about.

    Several people have explained the issue to you already, keep complaining or take their advice.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,291Member Arc User

    rammdozer said:

    Just as a point of mention I have been with this game from day 1 beta.... not some starter mod 16 healer with a god complex

    Your comments show a fundamental misunderstanding of how your class and the game overall works and you want to turn this into a e-peen measuring contest...really? I've been here just as long as you have buddy and i and nobody else i know experiences these *problems* you complain about.

    Several people have explained the issue to you already, keep complaining or take their advice.
    Actually the healing that pally spreads is not done by himself to some degree but by a another healer or a healing stone, throwing big heals on that tank and it follows the same abilities a pally could use before mod 16. There were feats and builds doing similar stuff as far as I remember.
    When I recognize that a pally heals for similar ammounts my Oathkeeper does, he still is 300% below my "healing", taking shielding into account, and the healing he does is only translated by him towards teammember from incoming heals done by my char.
    We could argue that outgoing healing (healer X) x incoming healing (tank) x incoming healing (group) leads to pretty strong results, but that's actual meta, same as necessary to absolve enddungeons these days.
    Nothing i consider to be a mayor problem, maybe they will nerf sheltering light some day (since that's the only thing devs are interested in) maybe not.
    I am far far away to really care about it, as long as core problems are unsolved in this game (since that's a thing most devs don't care in this game).
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Posts: 93Member Arc User
    All the more reason to remove scaling from the game. It makes content that should be really easy harder than it should be...
  • killzoneexkillzoneex Posts: 92Member Arc User



    Did you miss the part where i pointed out that healing is the most affected by scaling? It was the first thing i mentioned in my post. I main a Cleric since Mod 16, your not telling me anything i don't already know. Is Heal scaling annoying? Yes. Is it an actual problem? No.

    No decent Cleric / Warlock Healer will get out healed in any piece of content ( scaled or not ) by anything other than another Cleric or Warlock Healer. A properly played ( or very poorly played ) and scaled Paladin Healer CAN get out healed by a properly spec'd Tank with healing insignia bonuses but that has absolutely nothing to do with scaling or Paladin Healers being weak.

    The OP is not correct about anything because they don't even understand their own role as Paladin Healer - the less healing you've done as a Paladin, the better your performance was. Unless of course you also never shielded anyone, in that case you were just useless.

    Whining by one person does not validate the stupidity of another. What @emese said is what is actually correct.

    Forget about the accuracy of those specifics of what the OP stated. Healing is not being scaled properly. Most affected by scaling is just another way to say it's over scaled. Scaling is BS to begin with. Have us spend time, money and effort to get well geared and throw it all in the garbage.
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,507Member Arc User

    All the more reason to remove scaling from the game. It makes content that should be really easy harder than it should be...

    I hate the scaling but our arguments against it fall right into their hands.

    When you say "It makes content that should be really easy harder than it should be", you're saying exactly what they want to hear. They wanted that old content to be more challenging so that us "old timers" could no longer cruise through 60 second Shores runs, etc.

    There's literally no winning the argument when it plays out the way they want. Just have to vote with your wallets until they realize "hmmm maybe the players really don't want this".
  • bilosta#2909 bilosta Posts: 6Member Arc User
    " Have us spend time, money and effort to get well geared and throw it all in the garbage."

    Yup..Gearing up char is lil a bit obsolete. It's like: "Umm, maybe I should upgrade my weapon/armor/any ench..oh wait, why should I, when it gonna be scaled down in every dung, except 2 of them..Oh well, rank 10 is good enough.." Not to mention that scaling is bugged aswel..

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