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Aritfact idea with Stronghold Bonus

With all the mods over the past couple of years, there has been a repeating problem that relates to Masterwork weapons and the 'next' mod that releases a new weapon set. Specifically, I am referring to "Stronghold Bonus" that granted:
  • +2% Outgoing Damage
  • +2% Outgoing Healing
  • -2% Incoming Damage
This bonus would stack up to five times with others using a similar weapon set. It did not matter if it was Masterwork II or III as both levels had the same set bonus.

The problem that occurred is that not long after people began to produce these for themselves or others, a new mod came out and the weapon stats for those MW Weapons made them fairly obsolete, thus, making the whole thing a rather huge waste of time, AD, and effort...

In an effort to get this rather useful and sorely missed bonus back as well as assure that it did not repeat the current trend, I have been putting a lot of thought into how we, both players and devs, can in a sense, "have our cake and eat it too". This is especially true with the changes to crafting – both the newer crafting system and the recent level 80 additions. In short, the best answer that I could come up with is a NEW craftable item that has the same Stronghold Bonus, but is NOT a weapon set... (I heard that - a collective 'duh!' :) )

As I worked through this concept, I came up with three different concepts which I will present in order. However, in thinking realistically, I also had to factor in previous MW weapon sets that still have the bonus. I have not seen anybody using them lately (after mod-16 dropped). Myself, I still have a set on two toons in storage hoping the dev's would somehow fix the issue by making the weapons status comparable. That is not going to happen – as with any/all changes in ANY game, "what is is, what was was".

The current weapon set bonus that stacks would need to be changed so that it does not 'over stack' with a new item. I suggest that the MW II and III bonus change from the stacking +2%/+2%/-2%, to a non-stacking +5%/+5%/-5% bonus. This would be only so that players could still have a weapon option that was craftable. The MW III sets cannot be remove entirely since they are needed for MW IV advancement.

Another thing that I wanted to cover has that "high-quality (+1)" versions that if I remember correctly, came with the new crafting system. So, here we go...

CONCEPT #1: MW Craftable Override Gem. This was my first idea, it would be a permanent override gem that would need to be limited to ONE slot (wrist prolly). Honestly this both has few pros and more cons.
PROS
  1. 1. Will grant the Stronghold Bonus while not be overridden by the next weapon set release.
CONS
  1. 1. Will mean giving up an override slot used for other overrides gems.
  2. 2. Will require paying gold/silver/copper to swap out.
  3. 3. Will probably NOT include other stat bonuses found on the weapon sets as that would be 'over powered' in comparison to other override gems.
  4. 4. MUCH harder to factor in "High-Quality" version.
CONCEPT #2: MW Craftable Weapon Enchantment. This does have possibilities, however, the cons jump up fast... What other (damage) bonuses would it have? How would it progress for refinement? And of course, since it would be in the Weapon Slot, it would cost coin to swap it out. All that said, I did include this for the sake on conversation. In short, possible, not very viable as an option.

CONCEPT #3: MW Craftable Artifact. This one is what I think is the best option. As for slot, it would reside in either the Primary or Secondary (most likely – BiS location) Artifact slot. This would be, I would hope, a level 80 MW III item. Let's call it a "Gem of Tempus" as he is the God of Battle, this seems to make sense. As a craftable item, the 'high-quality' result could come in to play in one of two ways:
  • Results in a +1 version with higher stats.
  • Results in producing the next higher tier (Blue vs Green).
Now honestly, I would like to see it have mod-17 level stat bonuses. Furthermore, with the stat caps and in keeping with the "Gem of Tempus" concept, the IDEAL bonus stats would be: Hit Points, Power, and Combat Advantage.

This artifact would have two powers:
  • PASSIVE: Stronghold Bonus - Active in BOTH Primary and Secondary slots.
  • ACTIVE: Available in ONLY the Primary slot and prolly used in combat. I have no idea what to suggest here actually as there are so many to choose from that could be used with this item..
As for the materials for the creation of this artifact, I really was not sure what to suggest overall, one thing that did come to mind, that IF this was made into a Gem of Tempus, a Brilliant Diamond which are found in both lockboxes and on AH easily enough, would make sense. As for the rest of the materials a cool (I think) concept since Masterwork IS tied to the SH after all, would be the addition of a Explorer's Chart: Stronghold. We do have that nice, large area and since in the SH storyline we know that 500+ years ago the Cult of the Dragon saw battle there, it would tie in rather nicely. Otherwise, the BHEs and DF could drop the materials needed.

Looking forward to feedback on this concept. Thanks!
Guild: Noble Misfits
Silky Pan'teeze: Drow Wizard --- Madres de Nasae: Half-elf Rouge
Kepler: Human Paladin --- Demenoss: Dragonborn Barbarian
Divine Pan'teeze: Drow Cleric --- Nikki Sharparrow: Human Ranger
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Comments

  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Posts: 189Member Arc User
    of the three, i concur with the weapon enchantment being the least viable path, and the artifact being preferable in terms of the expectation that BiS items should, since the levelcap raise, be providing good stats.

    that said, the overload enchant option would actually be quite good, with a modification.

    don't make it permanent. give it a timer like other overload enchants have. make it a longer timer ( say, 16hrs instead of 8 ).

    this would mean lower material requirements, making it more accessible for more people to craft, and it would result in an ongoing revenue stream for mastercrafters, rather than everyone just buying one of it per-character and then they're done buying. keeps mastercrafters happy because they get more volume of sales, and incentivises more people to delve into mastercrafting because they know it's more accessible to make things that people are going to want to buy ( and to save themselves money by making things themselves ).

    the gold cost for swapping thing... being realistic, if it's some form of enchantment, weapon or overload, it doesn't matter. if it's BiS, it's not like they're really *going* to be swapping it out, unless it's an overload and they're restricting use to certain content to prolong its lifespan... and if they do.. it's like..2 gold 50 silver to swap it out. if they plan their content runs sensibly, and actually bother to pickup drops, they're only gonna have to swap once or twice a day, and gold is relatively easy to come by. by the time people are looking at buying something like that, they should be earning more than enough gold to be able to afford to swap it out if they want to, or be able to toss some ad at buying gold bars on the AH to make sure they have plenty gold.
  • demenoss#9306 demenoss Posts: 71Member Arc User

    of the three, i concur with the weapon enchantment being the least viable path, and the artifact being preferable in terms of the expectation that BiS items should, since the levelcap raise, be providing good stats.

    that said, the overload enchant option would actually be quite good, with a modification.

    don't make it permanent. give it a timer like other overload enchants have. make it a longer timer ( say, 16hrs instead of 8 ).

    this would mean lower material requirements, making it more accessible for more people to craft, and it would result in an ongoing revenue stream for mastercrafters, rather than everyone just buying one of it per-character and then they're done buying. keeps mastercrafters happy because they get more volume of sales, and incentivises more people to delve into mastercrafting because they know it's more accessible to make things that people are going to want to buy ( and to save themselves money by making things themselves ).

    the gold cost for swapping thing... being realistic, if it's some form of enchantment, weapon or overload, it doesn't matter. if it's BiS, it's not like they're really *going* to be swapping it out, unless it's an overload and they're restricting use to certain content to prolong its lifespan... and if they do.. it's like..2 gold 50 silver to swap it out. if they plan their content runs sensibly, and actually bother to pickup drops, they're only gonna have to swap once or twice a day, and gold is relatively easy to come by. by the time people are looking at buying something like that, they should be earning more than enough gold to be able to afford to swap it out if they want to, or be able to toss some ad at buying gold bars on the AH to make sure they have plenty gold.

    You might have a good point here. One thing though, as for overload lifespan, is measured in Combat Time. So, players would not need to swap out the item to prolong lifespan. However, that being said, I totally agree in the 16-hour lifespan. This would also help fill that gap that is present now in the current overload marks available at the SH. There are creatures NOT covered by the current available marks, yuan-ti are one I can think of off the top of my head.

    With lower bonus stats (Hit Points/Power/Combat Adv), it would require less or cheaper materials. The bonus it would not need to be major, maybe 1000 for HP and 250-500 for the other two. The materials still could come from the SH as I mentioned before, but not a requirement, just cool IMO. :)

    Thanks for the input!
    Guild: Noble Misfits
    Silky Pan'teeze: Drow Wizard --- Madres de Nasae: Half-elf Rouge
    Kepler: Human Paladin --- Demenoss: Dragonborn Barbarian
    Divine Pan'teeze: Drow Cleric --- Nikki Sharparrow: Human Ranger
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 343Member Arc User
    My vote would be to create a Stronghold bonus to use in overload slots (2 hour duration). These overload enchantments would be cheap... but cost Glory. This would encourage players to get their feet wet in PvP from time to time to stock up on more.


    You also did not mention Armor reinforcements as an option, but since switching them costs about 40,000 AD, its not affordable to use without doing an alternate helm, gloves, or boots for the purpose.

  • demenoss#9306 demenoss Posts: 71Member Arc User
    edited September 10

    My vote would be to create a Stronghold bonus to use in overload slots (2 hour duration). These overload enchantments would be cheap... but cost Glory. This would encourage players to get their feet wet in PvP from time to time to stock up on more.

    My idea was to keep the essence of the original, which was crafted. As an in-game purchase from a stronghold vender, I think guild marks would be a better option. Glory will make people feel forced into PVP, thus more rare and therefore less stacking.
    And yes, I am not personally into PVP. :)


    You also did not mention Armor reinforcements as an option, but since switching them costs about 40,000 AD, its not affordable to use without doing an alternate helm, gloves, or boots for the purpose.

    Hmm... Had not considered reinforcements, but I think a weapon version would be more appropriate choice. Thanks for the input!
    Guild: Noble Misfits
    Silky Pan'teeze: Drow Wizard --- Madres de Nasae: Half-elf Rouge
    Kepler: Human Paladin --- Demenoss: Dragonborn Barbarian
    Divine Pan'teeze: Drow Cleric --- Nikki Sharparrow: Human Ranger
  • exgardianexgardian Posts: 136Member Arc User
    Thinking about this:

    - A new MW rank that with only be acessible who finished all MW5 tasks - OR - who already have the Workshop at level 4 as requirements... or both.



    Current Main hand and Off-hand bonuses:

    You and nearby allies are granted the following:

    +2% Outgoing Damage
    +2% Outgoing Healing
    -2% Incoming Damage

    This effect may stack up to 5 times when allies are equipped with a set of Stronghold weapons.



    New MW6 Main hand and Off-hand bonuses:


    You and nearby allies are granted the following:

    + 4000 in all ratings (offensive and defensive)

    This effect may stack up to 5 times when allies are equipped with a set of Stronghold weapons.



    (Plus)


    Current MW Cloak and Belt bonuses:

    2 of set: When you use an encounter power, you gain a stack of Alacrity, granting 500 Recovery and 1000 Movement for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.



    New MW6 Cloak and Belt bonuses:

    ()

    2 of set: Deal up to 20% additional damage based on the difference in hit point percentage between the player and target.*


    * Demon Lord's Immortality bonus here ... But why ? All other sets that include Cloak, Belt and Artifact since module 8, doesn't match the raw power and utility of this set, doesn't matter the low IL. Almost all DPS classes, even in module 17, prefer to use Demon Lord's bonus than another set. So, why not to use this effect in higher IL items that worth to use ?
    2fv72Fw.png

    #inspiration
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 343Member Arc User
    Shirt and Pant bonuses are an obvious area of need for craftable armor reinforcements. It could be one of several options in those slots.
  • demenoss#9306 demenoss Posts: 71Member Arc User

    Shirt and Pant bonuses are an obvious area of need for craftable armor reinforcements. It could be one of several options in those slots.

    Very good point... Since they dropped frost damage from SKT, very open slot.
    Guild: Noble Misfits
    Silky Pan'teeze: Drow Wizard --- Madres de Nasae: Half-elf Rouge
    Kepler: Human Paladin --- Demenoss: Dragonborn Barbarian
    Divine Pan'teeze: Drow Cleric --- Nikki Sharparrow: Human Ranger
  • akemnosakemnos Posts: 486Member Arc User
    exgardian said:

    Thinking about this:

    - A new MW rank that with only be acessible who finished all MW5 tasks - OR - who already have the Workshop at level 4 as requirements... or both.



    Current Main hand and Off-hand bonuses:

    You and nearby allies are granted the following:

    +2% Outgoing Damage
    +2% Outgoing Healing
    -2% Incoming Damage

    This effect may stack up to 5 times when allies are equipped with a set of Stronghold weapons.



    New MW6 Main hand and Off-hand bonuses:


    You and nearby allies are granted the following:

    + 4000 in all ratings (offensive and defensive)

    This effect may stack up to 5 times when allies are equipped with a set of Stronghold weapons.



    (Plus)


    Current MW Cloak and Belt bonuses:

    2 of set: When you use an encounter power, you gain a stack of Alacrity, granting 500 Recovery and 1000 Movement for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.



    New MW6 Cloak and Belt bonuses:

    ()

    2 of set: Deal up to 20% additional damage based on the difference in hit point percentage between the player and target.*


    * Demon Lord's Immortality bonus here ... But why ? All other sets that include Cloak, Belt and Artifact since module 8, doesn't match the raw power and utility of this set, doesn't matter the low IL. Almost all DPS classes, even in module 17, prefer to use Demon Lord's bonus than another set. So, why not to use this effect in higher IL items that worth to use ?

    The MW6 main/offhand bonus you suggest is likely way to big. in a full team that would be 25% of stat caps in current content.

  • demenoss#9306 demenoss Posts: 71Member Arc User
    akemnos said:

    exgardian said:

    Thinking about this:

    - A new MW rank that with only be acessible who finished all MW5 tasks - OR - who already have the Workshop at level 4 as requirements... or both.



    Current Main hand and Off-hand bonuses:

    You and nearby allies are granted the following:

    +2% Outgoing Damage
    +2% Outgoing Healing
    -2% Incoming Damage

    This effect may stack up to 5 times when allies are equipped with a set of Stronghold weapons.



    New MW6 Main hand and Off-hand bonuses:


    You and nearby allies are granted the following:

    + 4000 in all ratings (offensive and defensive)

    This effect may stack up to 5 times when allies are equipped with a set of Stronghold weapons.



    (Plus)


    Current MW Cloak and Belt bonuses:

    2 of set: When you use an encounter power, you gain a stack of Alacrity, granting 500 Recovery and 1000 Movement for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.



    New MW6 Cloak and Belt bonuses:

    ()

    2 of set: Deal up to 20% additional damage based on the difference in hit point percentage between the player and target.*


    * Demon Lord's Immortality bonus here ... But why ? All other sets that include Cloak, Belt and Artifact since module 8, doesn't match the raw power and utility of this set, doesn't matter the low IL. Almost all DPS classes, even in module 17, prefer to use Demon Lord's bonus than another set. So, why not to use this effect in higher IL items that worth to use ?

    The MW6 main/offhand bonus you suggest is likely way to big. in a full team that would be 25% of stat caps in current content.

    I agree @akemnos this would be over-powered. The reason everything got redone in M16 was because it was getting way out of control and causing sever imbalance (or at least, that is how I understood the explanation). The Stronghold Bonus is boost without being overkill. At best: +10% outgoing damage/+10% outgoing healing/-10% incoming damage, which in very much in line with other items (override marks, many different rings, etc).

    I do give credit to @exgardian for putting thought into this and posting the suggestion (thanks!), but I would be worried it might 'break the game'. As for an updated version of the Demon Lord's set (newer stats), why not? :) Although, I have often wondered is the bonus bigger when HP between target/player small or large? (Of topic lol)
    Guild: Noble Misfits
    Silky Pan'teeze: Drow Wizard --- Madres de Nasae: Half-elf Rouge
    Kepler: Human Paladin --- Demenoss: Dragonborn Barbarian
    Divine Pan'teeze: Drow Cleric --- Nikki Sharparrow: Human Ranger
  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Posts: 189Member Arc User



    You might have a good point here. One thing though, as for overload lifespan, is measured in Combat Time. So, players would not need to swap out the item to prolong lifespan. However, that being said, I totally agree in the 16-hour lifespan. This would also help fill that gap that is present now in the current overload marks available at the SH. There are creatures NOT covered by the current available marks, yuan-ti are one I can think of off the top of my head.

    With lower bonus stats (Hit Points/Power/Combat Adv), it would require less or cheaper materials. The bonus it would not need to be major, maybe 1000 for HP and 250-500 for the other two. The materials still could come from the SH as I mentioned before, but not a requirement, just cool IMO. :)

    Thanks for the input!

    i moreso meant people who wanted to swap it out to prolong it as in, they want to keep it for when they're running lomm, or tomm, and decide to unslot it while they run RLQ/RIQ/RAQ/ME's/WE's/FE's, so that it lasts them longer by not being in use in easier content. not since m16, but m15/m14, i used to do that, because less replacements meant i could save to get comps to legendary faster. i'm still working on my chars, so the odds are i'd probably still do that because coal wards and mops/es's kinda get expensive, especially when you're working on multiple chars at the same time.


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