OFFICIAL M17 - Appearance System

uimaven

hustin1 said:

arcanjo86 said:

or simply don't apply a dye on the slots you want to keep the dye

Who is applying dyes? When the item drops, it already has the dyes applied to it. Players are not applying these dyes -- the items come this way.

I think before this issue gets too blown up, we need a response from a dev. Can the missing "dungeon dye pack" or "questing dye pack" colors be added to the library when the item is converted? Can the packs be added as craftable recipes? It shoudn't take more than a few SQL queries to identify all existing such packs in whatever item database they have. There is more than one reasonable way to deal with this issue.

I believe what arcanjo86 meant was, that if you have an item that has a colour you cannot reproduce in the new system, don't override its slot's colours in the new Appearance window. Then it will still show its original colours. You just cannot make anything else that colour.

Right now, no, the missing colours cannot be added or extracted as Color Library unlocks from an old item. We re-defined all the dye colours in the game to give a better palette and we could not save all the old colours (and honestly, most of them were very very slightly different grays, browns, and grayish-browns). Because the valid colour set has been redefined, and because all override colours have to belong to the valid colour set, when you add a dyed item to the Appearance Library, it loses all the old dye information.

We hope that the current new palette gives you, in general, more options but it could of course be expanded in the future. New colour unlocks could be new crafted items, new loot... at some point we might ask you all what you want as the next colour unlock, so keep your answer handy!

uimaven

OK, here some features that I've gleaned from reading this forum, that we'll consider for a future update of the Appearance system. I'm sure more will come up as you use the system more intensively.

1) A separate loadout system for appearances so that you can quickly change between predefined looks without having to change your complete loadout.

2) A way to keep the grouping of colours that come from a pack, and apply them as a group. Possibly also to define your own colour groups and apply them.

3) A way to export appearance information and apply it to another character as far as possible (considering the other character's library unlocks).

cdnbison

Might it be possible for

wilbur626 said:

> @adinosii said:

> Overall, a very good feature. I love that this will free up 30+ spaces in my bank, where I have kept various old and unusual items - well, all but my Caturday Cape - I'm not converting that to a "library" item.

>

> There is a small bug somewhere - I sometimes get an error saying it is already in the Library, when that is not the case - I haven't been able to figure out exactly what triggers this - maybe it is related to me wearing a second item with that same transmute at the time. I need to check this a bit better.



We should absolutely be given the option to keep some of the rarer items like Caturday capes!

I'd settle for being able to reclaim the Cturday cloak - on my main I used it as a transmute when artifact necks were first introduced, and had to choose the RP or keeping the transmute...

ailliver

uimaven said:

ailliver#7283 said:

Oh, another question came up that I forgot to ask. When I open some of the dye packs to add to the colors, it says that they are already there and won't open but I only have 1 of the 3 colors in the pack. IE pack A came with black, red, blue, and pack B came with black, purple, and green but won't open because I have black already. I assume this is a bug?

If you already have one or two of the colours in a pack, then the remaining two or one should still unlock. You should only see the "This color already exists in the Color Library" tooltip if all three colours are already unlocked. So what you're describing is definitely a bug. Which dye packs were you using?

I can say just taking a fresh toon over to test just this the first two packs (they were in the bank) I tried were Crimson Dusk (should have 2 shades of red and black) and Elemental Ember (two shades of orange and grey) did not work. All the other ones in the trade bar vendor went in without an issue. Without access to the plethora of other dye packs, I can't say which others might have an issue.

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hustin1

uimaven said:

hustin1 said:

arcanjo86 said:

or simply don't apply a dye on the slots you want to keep the dye

Who is applying dyes? When the item drops, it already has the dyes applied to it. Players are not applying these dyes -- the items come this way.

I think before this issue gets too blown up, we need a response from a dev. Can the missing "dungeon dye pack" or "questing dye pack" colors be added to the library when the item is converted? Can the packs be added as craftable recipes? It shoudn't take more than a few SQL queries to identify all existing such packs in whatever item database they have. There is more than one reasonable way to deal with this issue.

I believe what arcanjo86 meant was, that if you have an item that has a colour you cannot reproduce in the new system, don't override its slot's colours in the new Appearance window. Then it will still show its original colours. You just cannot make anything else that colour.

Right now, no, the missing colours cannot be added or extracted as Color Library unlocks from an old item. We re-defined all the dye colours in the game to give a better palette and we could not save all the old colours (and honestly, most of them were very very slightly different grays, browns, and grayish-browns). Because the valid colour set has been redefined, and because all override colours have to belong to the valid colour set, when you add a dyed item to the Appearance Library, it loses all the old dye information.

We hope that the current new palette gives you, in general, more options but it could of course be expanded in the future. New colour unlocks could be new crafted items, new loot... at some point we might ask you all what you want as the next colour unlock, so keep your answer handy!

Well, for me, my main concern is the slightly pinkish red in Arcane Overseer items. Even using all of the packs I can't unlock the entire color palette so it's impossible for me to tell if one of them will be a close match. It doesn't look like there is much if any variation available in the range between red and magenta.

For that matter, why aren't we able to unlock the entire palette if we have every pack available?

Oh, and since the whole purpose of this thread is to ask for our feedback before it goes live, shouldn't we be pointing out deficiencies in the palette with the understanding that our feedback might actually be acted upon? Otherwise, why should we bother if it's already been carved in stone tablets?

hustin1

cdnbison said:

Might it be possible for

wilbur626 said:

> @adinosii said:

> Overall, a very good feature. I love that this will free up 30+ spaces in my bank, where I have kept various old and unusual items - well, all but my Caturday Cape - I'm not converting that to a "library" item.

>

> There is a small bug somewhere - I sometimes get an error saying it is already in the Library, when that is not the case - I haven't been able to figure out exactly what triggers this - maybe it is related to me wearing a second item with that same transmute at the time. I need to check this a bit better.



We should absolutely be given the option to keep some of the rarer items like Caturday capes!

I'd settle for being able to reclaim the Cturday cloak - on my main I used it as a transmute when artifact necks were first introduced, and had to choose the RP or keeping the transmute...

Add to that Foundry cloaks like Foundry Apprentice and Foundry Graduate. @terramak mentioned looking into it, but it's been radio silence since.

shafuq

uimaven said:

shafuq said:

Feature request:

I would really appreciate a "disable visual" for the doohickey with the new fashion system. I don't want to wear fashion gear, would rather use my normal armor and not have its visual open.

I'm not clear what you're asking for, sorry. Are you asking specifically about the "Doohickey" from the Wonders of Gond event? That does add a visual effect to your character, but it doesn't change you to wearing fashion.

In general, though, if you don't want to wear a fashion outfit, don't click on the purple mask and don't click on "Wear Fashion."

ETA: Oh, I see what you mean, I think. The only way to not see the Doohickey is to wear fashion, right? I see what you mean now. Disabling effects is actually a whole other system, and we are indeed looking at it.

Yes that's what i meant. I'm so glad it's something you're looking into.

I don't like having pets/companions wandering around me. That's why i keep my ioun stone of allure (instead of bullet pup) as main and don't use any pets in game. The Doohicky from the Gond event is an awesome tool to have/use. But i would prefer it not rotating around me where ever i go. Unfortunetly in the current system i can only stop seeing it by wearing my fashion wear, which too isn't something i want to do.

Thank you for responding and I hope you allow us to disable the Doohickey visual in the near future.

artifleur

The following dye packs can't be opened even on a character with no color unlocked :

- Bottle of White Dye
- Bottle of Black Dye
- Elemental Ember Dye Pack
- Crimson Dusk Dye Pack

adinosii

hustin1 said:

For that matter, why aren't we able to unlock the entire palette if we have every pack available?

You have every pack? All 45 ? Even the ones like Draconic White (which is not one of the draconic packs sold in the SH). I am personally missing 3, but plan to obtain them before Mod 17 launches.

adinosii

On the subject of Dye packs...there is one that is missing- there are 7 "class" packs - Barbarian, Cleric, etc....but not a "Paladin" pack. This feels like an oversight...any chance someone can put it somewhere on the do-do list ?

adinosii

OK, I have something which looks like a potential problem.

There is this one piece of armor with a special visual effect - Morlanth's Shroud, I think it was called - the special armor from the River District campaign. If you put it in the library and use it as a transformation, yo do get the look of the armor, but not the special visual effect.

mushellka

I don't know if anybody's written about it before, but. . .
Maybe the time has come to change these nightmarish women's underwear, something worth looking at? I don't know who designed it, but he didn't like womens very much.
Part of fashion does not include this disgusting one, and errors in some others cause this shocker to be seen in all its horrifying splendor.
If you can't change this disgust, give us the opportunity to dye this odiousness. . .

uimaven

hustin1 said:

Well, for me, my main concern is the slightly pinkish red in Arcane Overseer items. Even using all of the packs I can't unlock the entire color palette so it's impossible for me to tell if one of them will be a close match. It doesn't look like there is much if any variation available in the range between red and magenta.

For that matter, why aren't we able to unlock the entire palette if we have every pack available?

Oh, and since the whole purpose of this thread is to ask for our feedback before it goes live, shouldn't we be pointing out deficiencies in the palette with the understanding that our feedback might actually be acted upon? Otherwise, why should we bother if it's already been carved in stone tablets?

Yes, we're aware of the problems with some of the colour packs. It's our intention that you'll be able to unlock all of the Color Library with existing in-game items. Some errors crept in to the process of redefining all the dye items and colours, and we're working on fixing them.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that anything's been "carved in stone tablets" or that I don't want to hear about deficiencies in the palette. It's true that you will not be able to extract the dyes from dyed items as colour library items. That does not mean that we cannot add the same colour to the new colour library.

caldochaud

Any plans on adding reflective, shimmering or polished metallic colors?

For example, if I wanted my Paladin look like they are clad in a highly polished suit of armor. (I seem to recall a suit of armor in D&D that was reflective like a mirror.)

Or perhaps adding a rusted or corroded dye-set?

artifleur

mushellka said:

I don't know if anybody's written about it before, but. . .
Maybe the time has come to change these nightmarish women's underwear, something worth looking at? I don't know who designed it, but he didn't like womens very much.
Part of fashion does not include this disgusting one, and errors in some others cause this shocker to be seen in all its horrifying splendor.
If you can't change this disgust, give us the opportunity to dye this odiousness. . .

I agree. It would be about time we could pick the color of our character's underwear.

Tieflings (several colors) and Drows (gray and black only) can already "chose" their underwear's color by picking the right preset in character creation.

I understand that giving us the ability to disable it is out of the question, or would take a lot of coding, due to all the revealing armor meshes but please at least give us the ability to dye it.

hannibalsmith

The intro to fashions might be a bit daunting to new players. Specifically,
1. Dye bottles given via mail - red, blue, pink.
2. Quest: Rags to Riches, which provides a brownish tunic and pants.

Before Mod 17, my female characters would dye the tunic pink and the "jeans" blue. Nice look. Dyes were consumed.

Now, I double-click the dye bottle.
Pink: Opens Pink on the palette.
Red and Blue: "This color already exists in the Color Library".

What is the point in giving the new player two dye colors that are already unlocked?

Why are the dye bottles not consumed? They are bound to character and cannot be sold or traded.


Then I do the usual pink/blue dye application.

Costs me 60 silver to apply the changes? Used to be free! I only have 11 silver at this point.


Why does it cost anything to apply a dye that you have already unlocked?

How about a way to unlock palette colors from the palette? That's where gold, trade bars, AD could be charged. Or, if the dye is from an event, then a tooltip to participate in that event.

hustin1

uimaven said:

hustin1 said:

Well, for me, my main concern is the slightly pinkish red in Arcane Overseer items. Even using all of the packs I can't unlock the entire color palette so it's impossible for me to tell if one of them will be a close match. It doesn't look like there is much if any variation available in the range between red and magenta.

For that matter, why aren't we able to unlock the entire palette if we have every pack available?

Oh, and since the whole purpose of this thread is to ask for our feedback before it goes live, shouldn't we be pointing out deficiencies in the palette with the understanding that our feedback might actually be acted upon? Otherwise, why should we bother if it's already been carved in stone tablets?

Yes, we're aware of the problems with some of the colour packs. It's our intention that you'll be able to unlock all of the Color Library with existing in-game items. Some errors crept in to the process of redefining all the dye items and colours, and we're working on fixing them.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that anything's been "carved in stone tablets" or that I don't want to hear about deficiencies in the palette. It's true that you will not be able to extract the dyes from dyed items as colour library items. That does not mean that we cannot add the same colour to the new colour library.

One thought I had at work was whether it would be possible to auto-select the closest colors when converting a dyed item to an appearance item. Basically just choose the colors with the shortest RGB vector to the dyed colors (I'm a software dev, too). I figure somewhere around 50-100 lines of code to do something like that.

wbaker256

Is this revamped appearance system gonna allow us to hide foot or hand wear?

hustin1

adinosii said:

hustin1 said:

For that matter, why aren't we able to unlock the entire palette if we have every pack available?

You have every pack? All 45 ? Even the ones like Draconic White (which is not one of the draconic packs sold in the SH). I am personally missing 3, but plan to obtain them before Mod 17 launches.

The only ones I don't have are the two packs you can get in the Stronghold if you PvP. As for Dragonflight and Draconic, yup, all of them, including Draconic White. Searching for dyes on the AH is one of my pastimes. I also sometimes search for pre-mod 6 Unobtainium equipment with Questing Dye Pack and Dungeon Dye Pack applied. Those are getting harder to come by. Thankfully, in mod 5 I was in the habit of stockpiling transmutes like that and I have a nice unbound cache across a few alts.

anoreksja

I checked yesterday on the preview server and finally we can hide visual appearance of the shield item - Thank you very much for adding this possibility @noworries#8859 @uimaven

Good job

flippy

has anybody else noticed the fashion items worn and in inventory that don't currently survive the transfer from live to preview

had items ripped off the character as well as ripped out of inventory and totally vanished

even an owl mask that is now in inventory and cannot be worn

uimaven

flippy#8481 said:

has anybody else noticed the fashion items worn and in inventory that don't currently survive the transfer from live to preview

had items ripped off the character as well as ripped out of inventory and totally vanished

even an owl mask that is now in inventory and cannot be worn

Fashion items now need to be converted to Appearance Library items to be worn. We automatically convert any fashion items that you are wearing, and also all fashion items that are "bound to character" in your inventory. We wanted you to be able to wear your fashion items right away, and not have to convert them all to library items one by one yourself.

If you go to the Appearance tab of your character sheet, click the little purple mask button in the lower right, go to any fashion slot and choose "Change Appearance Item," you should see all your bound fashion items.

adinosii

One little thing.

I have noticed that many packs with 3 colors just unlock one or two colours in the palette - Barbarian's only unlocks a single one, for example. Now, in some cases this might be just as expected, as the third color might well be one of the "pre-unlocked" base colors - however, there are some packs with descriptions like "X, Y and Z colors", and when I add those (on a character with no other dye packs unlocked) I get colors corresponding to X and Y, but not Z ... and none of the base colors correspond to Z.

This could also explain the issue that people have been complaining about - if you open all the known dye packs, you still do not unlock all the colors in the palette.

noworries

adinosii said:

One little thing.

I have noticed that many packs with 3 colors just unlock one or two colours in the palette - Barbarian's only unlocks a single one, for example. Now, in some cases this might be just as expected, as the third color might well be one of the "pre-unlocked" base colors - however, there are some packs with descriptions like "X, Y and Z colors", and when I add those (on a character with no other dye packs unlocked) I get colors corresponding to X and Y, but not Z ... and none of the base colors correspond to Z.

This could also explain the issue that people have been complaining about - if you open all the known dye packs, you still do not unlock all the colors in the palette.

Please feel welcome to list the specific dyes/dye packs that aren't granting their colors if those colors are unowned. They are fairly easy to fix on an individual basis if we know which ones aren't working right.

ailliver

noworries#8859 said:

adinosii said:

One little thing.

I have noticed that many packs with 3 colors just unlock one or two colours in the palette - Barbarian's only unlocks a single one, for example. Now, in some cases this might be just as expected, as the third color might well be one of the "pre-unlocked" base colors - however, there are some packs with descriptions like "X, Y and Z colors", and when I add those (on a character with no other dye packs unlocked) I get colors corresponding to X and Y, but not Z ... and none of the base colors correspond to Z.

This could also explain the issue that people have been complaining about - if you open all the known dye packs, you still do not unlock all the colors in the palette.

Please feel welcome to list the specific dyes/dye packs that aren't granting their colors if those colors are unowned. They are fairly easy to fix on an individual basis if we know which ones aren't working right.

White, black, Crimson Dusk, and Elemental Ember cannot be added to the palette even on a fresh transfer with no dye packs added in yet.

micky1p00

Any chance to get the RGB ( or any common format ) of the dyes palate in the new system?

noworries

ailliver#7283 said:

White, black, Crimson Dusk, and Elemental Ember cannot be added to the palette even on a fresh transfer with no dye packs added in yet.

White became Cream and is one of the free colors.

Currently have a fix in place for Black, Elemental Ember, and fixed one of the colors in Blue Fire.

Crimson Dusk is being worked on.



You won't likely see these fixes until next weekend. And of course mention any other broken ones that are found and we will fix those too.

adinosii

OK, after opening the dye packs I had on one of my characters, this is what I got.



Now, some of the missing colors are understandable, as I am just missing the packs in question - however, there are a few issues.

• Blue Fire is missing. If I attempt to open the Bluefire pack /which should give that color), I just get a "This color already exists".
  
• Otyugh Brown is only obtained from Roar of the Pack - that is problematic, as this looks like an attempt to force players to PvP....something which is a dealbreaker for some. I seriously urge you to provide an alternative way to obtatain this color.
  
• A bottle of white dye does not unlock the white color - and on that subject, the trade bar vendor now only offers black and pink - should he not offer the white too?
  
• I am missing a couple of packs, so that explains some of the missing colors, but in addition, I am clearly missing some packs I had not heard of, specifically Dark Leather, Dusk Armor, Bandit, Moonstone, Moonstone Fancy, Samite, Siege Standard, Gloomwrought and Adamant - are those new in Mod 17?