Mod16 warlock concerns

mongol69

From past experiences, soulbinder had great single target dmg granted you could generate sparks fast enough and keep them maintained, but lacked aoe and burst potential. Only in sustained fights did it excel. Fury hb was a well crafted mix of buff/debuff, okish aoe, and good single target damage that performed better with curse mechanics for additional damage to pace other classes.
In the new mod making spark mechanic default will make aoe even worse than now with low dps compared to other classes in aoe burst or short duration fights, and a clunky reduced curse mechanic on top
Single target will be similar to live mechanic in soulbinder meaning warlocks loose any burst potential and will only perform well in sustained fights. Since curse and spark consumption mechanic constantly drops damage percentages then that means the incentive to actually consume them will be mostly void if no fast way to ramp up sparks and curses. Which would be dampening potential and actual use of either, relying on synergy is fine but makes 0laystyle stifled.

Lesser curse mechanic will be abysmal if reduced damage and applying is timegated by encounters or application chance with single target at will. Curse consume and reapplication without a smooth mechanic will remove incentive to consume.

In live I have stopped using sb all together because of absolute lack in aoe, fireplaces now trending as unavailable in enough convenient locations such as cr and codg. Spark mechanic has become impossible to output damage fury can in overall performance since hg damage reduction and murderous flames damage from fb xombined are better, plus lack of group buffs in sb. Currently pop, fb, kf is my single target setup going completely away from cuse consumption to pure synergy to maintain damage and replacing kf with cb for aoe.

I understand that sparks are now the new mechanic base for warlocks. I just foresee aoe becoming worse that what is available live and single target being just as bad. If warlocks are competing with burst classes that have better aoe, better single target and offer more to a group then the warlocks will be back in the same place they were in back in mod 11. Solo content will become frustrating if constantly dead before ramping up or extended to relying on puppet and companion to outperform actual character contribution in combat. Warlock will become last in performance for everything and relegated to support when other classes offer more to the group as support.

We will have to manage curse mechanic, spark mechanic, situational and agro awareness being a cloth class, while trying to be a class requiring damage ramp ups from these mechanics. Time is the baseline for groups running content and warlocks may well fall far behind other classes for performance and what warlocks being to a group. Adding spark mechanic may be interesting for heal loadout but I prefer dps spec.

My biggest concern was seeing many pages of feedback and balancing on other classes. I currently run end game as sw,cw,dc,op and have been following developments all those classes, but warlocks appear to have less correspondence to feedback overall. I understand much more development in this class will occur, but warlock class was and is my favorite and with everything I have invested in this character class.

kiraskytower

mongol69 said:

We will have to manage curse mechanic, spark mechanic, situational and agro awareness being a cloth class, while trying to be a class requiring damage ramp ups from these mechanics. Time is the baseline for groups running content and warlocks may well fall far behind other classes for performance and what warlocks being to a group. Adding spark mechanic may be interesting for heal loadout but I prefer dps spec.

So ... you may want to check out the class on preview before posting feedback like this as it's obvious you have not tried out the class revisions. To allay your fears a bit, the DPS version of the warlock does have some AoE (though maybe not as much as many would like) and you don't really have to worry about managing the curse mechanic anymore as warlock curses are pretty much a thing of the past. DPS now come more from your rotation and soulspark management, and less from trying to maximize buffs and synergy (for the most part, Mod 16 removes buffs ....).

mongol69

An example from feedback, curse bite is higher dmg as single target and aoe. They even mentioned that internal testing they have focused on cb damage. Since cb relys on curse consumption instead of synergy then curse application required prior to activate cb on both charges. Then again to continue curse synergy. Also, dps paragon starts with no sparks and require building spark stacks to increase dmg and while working with cooldowns on encounters.

In live full crit fb, atwills and manual application make using cb a smooth mechanic as curse synergy vs curse consumption. If limited to atwill with acc and limited higher cooldown encounters to apply lc, then application of curse to consume both charges and reapply for continued synergy on multiple adds is an example of what I'm concerned about. Another is that in live soulbinder is inherently bad at aoe and lacking murderous flames, single target also issue with spark stacking reductions from enchant procs and hg changes make it still lower that fury buff/debuff burst for overall performance. Only a few select situations make sb higher dmg with loss of group buffs.

I understand that buff debuff and dmg mitigation are now scaled back and limited to a select few depending on paragon and feats.

Also, acc seems to be one of the better options which in turn will make crit and crit sev a focus vs combat advantage due to opposing stats and limited pool of total stats to work with. Which in turn limits enchant choices to vorpal. There are options that many will not take making them traps such as when taking a hit 5% chance to apply lc. This in turn will make the class very limited in actual build options.

If an hr, gwf, cw can burst dmg output on aoe and single target, while warlock spark management inherently requires time to scale dmg up with clunky dmg fluctuations depending on feats for curse mechanic and sparks. Where is the group incentive for dps warlocks rather than being relegated down to soulweaver where spark management on encounters without cooldown, starting with sparks at beginning of combat, and a few other factors make soulweaver inherently faster and stronger dps in feedback. Soulweaver is looking good in mechanics and spark managment while dps paragon is still struggling in threads.

mongol69

Ok, my last reply was deleted so I'm going to try again and mainly comment on just two issues I addressed in deleted reply

This is a discussion I started on general concerns going by feedback read in threads.

One example is curse bite.

Devs have commented on internal testing with curse bite being a focus and performing well. Curse bite no longer has syngery but consumption of curses. Lc limited to atwill application with acc and limited application via a higher cooldown encounter.
Each charge of curse bite will require lc before each charge activation and after to continue curse synergy. Cb has rating making it better in aoe and single target vie feedback in warlock thread. Thread also commented cb activation clunk and required targeting cursed add to activate.
Thus curse consumption mechanic required to even use curse bite.

Feedback has been that its clunky.
This along with starting with no sparks and building sparks to increase dmg from feat makes spark mechanic inherently slower at dps and lackluster in aoe and single target compared to other burst dps classes gwf, cw etc. Making it synergy based again would improve and offer more burst potential

In live crit build using acc has a smooth application via atwills, encounters like fb, pop, and manual application without impacting synergy via consumption using curse bite charges.

I know that buff debuff and damage mitigation have been scaled way back and limited to a few paragon feat and boons.

Soulweaver on the other hand begins with soulsparks, has no cooldown utilizing spark mechanic to spam encounters. This makes it inherently easier to maintain, build, and apply lesser curses to utilise curse bite via consumption. Encounter use in general for soulbinder is reported as higher dps in feedback than dps paragon but heals not scaled well.

Another concern, feats like apply lesser curse 5% chance when struck are traps while Acc is one of the best performing options in feedback, this class will then inherently be focused on crit and crit severity due to opposing stats and stat total limitations. This will then make vorpal the clear choice in enchant options.Feats and boons that support this route will become prefered making viable build options limited and possibly require aoe and single target loadouts to optimize dps where fireplaces are available.
I'm hopeful they improve some of the feats to make them viable and add more choices to builds.

Update: warlock forum devs just updated changes, curse bite may no longer be an issue with mechanics since magnitude dropped on encounter, may become a power to just ignore.

mongol69

Well, since both of my previous replies were deleted on detailed concerns I'll just call it a day. I get it, cant discuss anything here. I guess the category discussion above is missleading.

Btw, curse bite does utilize curse consume on each charge. Check it out.

Edit: my replies were restored and possibly redundant now. Thank you!

kiraskytower

mongol69 said:

Btw, curse bite does utilize curse consume on each charge. Check it out.

Yes, that is true, curse bite does work on lesser curses. What I meant previously is the main (tab) Warlock curse mechanic is changed (replaced with either essence drain or soul scorch).

mongol69

Twice I wrote up multiple paragraphs defining concerns of spark mechanic scaling with curse synergy vs consumption limits. Burst vs dot scaling issues with inherent magnitude limits, stat choise limits with theoretical max stat potential from gear, enchants with opposing stat system.
Build limits restricted to crit priority feats creating a build path limitation, etc that were an issue from feedback related to new mechanic and stat base system within warlock current dps powers magnitude scaling with spark and curse limiters in place.
Had example using curse bite since mechanics impacted actual implementation as higher magnitude power making it a concern till spark and magnitude changes updated yesterday. Soulweaver default spark status and no cooldown utilizing sparks vs dps paragon spark scaling with high cooldown limits. Also, feat choice options between two paragons from current feat options available in preview.
Concern with balancing being inherently problematic in this class since as per feedback pointed out, base weapon damage increases will break implemented dmg scaling vs burst classes.

schietindebux

Warlock lacks in focusdamage, agreed.
Warlocks Dailies deal 50% compared to other classes, same as At Wills and encounter. The damage from other sources and the better Cooldownreduction don´t look like being enough to close the gap, but hard to tell atm.
Actually dps for Hellbringer is build by Cursemechanic on one target for a very big ammount , arround 50%.
Average damage on a singel target dealt by applying Lesser Curse 20-25% using Deadly Curse, Curse Bite about 12% (best aoe and best single) but only if you can consume a Curse, wich is only possible by applying one before, wich only works in case you slot encounter that apply a Curse or run a class feature that does, Parting Blasphemy about 5% damage from sucking a Curse from you opponent.
I´d say 50% circles arround Curses:
2 Dailies, 3 classfeature, 1 feat and
Curse Consume: Vampiric Embrance, Curse Bites, Hadar Grasp (should spawn puppet bot doesn`t and should buff puppetbuild by that, but doesn´t and only works with a ... Curse
Curse Synergy: Fiery Bolt, Dreadtheft, Infernal Sphere (apply Curses), Arms of Hadar (applies Curses), BoVA
There are things that are not build arround Curses: At Wills, Killing Flame, Hellfirering, 2 Dailies, 5 out of 8 classfeature, a Soulpuppet, Shift, Sparks and Soul Scorch and 4 out of 5 feats to chose.

The far bigger concern I have actually, is the fact that a warlock is tied to Critstat, and has no options for builddiversity other classes may have.
Sparks are to some ammount generated on crit (dps path) same as sparks are needed to cast Soul Scorch, wich leads to Cooldownreduction (lev80 feat).

mongol69

^^