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Intro Quest: An important Invitation

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  • drumon88drumon88 Posts: 142Member Arc User
    Ported over and ran my lowest ilvl character through the intro quest today, an 8700 ilvl on Live/7800 ilvl Preview CW. Some notes.

    First, the "gauntlet"
    1. Things were respawning faster than I could kill them during the Gauntlet, an issue I didn't have with better-geared characters.
    2. Things were respawning and attacking me while I was talking to NPCs at the first "safe spot". This didn't happen in the previous build but I'm unsure if it's due to the longer TTK from me not being geared as well, or due to some change to the zone/quest/whatever.
    3. I died 9x before the end of the gauntlet, this is obviously not tuned for lower-geared 70s despite being a leveling/progression oriented quest. Compared to not even really getting below 80% health on my 13.5k-live templock, dying once on my 10.5k-live tankadin, and somehow managing to completely skip it and port straight to the tavern on my 16.5k-live GWF and 13k-live DC.

    Someone not in full Primal or better with R10 or better enchants is really going to struggle with this, and with the level cap raised to 80 new/newer/mothballed characters that don't have endgame mod13+ gear or high rank enchants are in trouble while just trying to level up. This induces a near-mandatory pause at 70 to gear up before continuing to level cap (I'm sure there's players that have the skill or luck to get through it without dying, I admit I'm not super familiar with CW yet but she is in full primal with R8 enchants), which seems like either a huge oversight or a really bad design decision.

    Then, the "bottom of the well"
    1. Mobs in here did not seem to have any more health than the zombie rotters on the shore. I'm glad to see this. It was generally easier than the gauntlet due to lower mob density.
    2. Some mobs in here randomly clocked me for hundreds of thousands of damage, while other mobs of the same name were hitting me for 2-3k. Need to clean up the outlier mobs still, something I'm disappointed to see in week 4 on preview, and also something I didn't have an issue with with the other characters. I had 2 deaths to 1-shots and 2 more deaths to hits that took 80%+ of my health while fighting a group. I also had at least 2 other close calls where I got nearly 1-shot but was able to blink away and use a health pot, then kite.
    3. It's IMO overly big for an INTRO QUEST, I know a low ilvl CW doesn't kill things very fast in general but start to finish it took me over an hour. For an intro quest. And half of that was just running, since you can't use mounts in here.
    4. COMPANION PATHING IN HERE IS HORRIBLE. HOOOOOOORRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIBBBBBBBLLLLLLEEEEEE. My companion got hung up on every little bump, nick, cranny, corner, dead mob, etc. It would run in circles. It would sit there juuuust out of melee range and stare at mobs. It would randomly start running the wrong direction. In general it seemed to move significantly slower than any other zone, even when not hung up on something. Tested with all 11 companions I had in my folio.

    Lots of issues I haven't run into previously. Not a smooth or enjoyable experience and while DOABLE, it definitely needs a lot of attention still.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 577Member Arc User
    Decided to transfer my Rogue over and so I replayed this with him.

    I equipped everything because they have mostly been inactive, so with a full set of that Undermountain gear equipped I managed to fight my way through everything.

    A couple of close-ish calls, but I was able to stay one step ahead of trouble and get everything killed before it killed me.

    The one thing I do not like is that I had already talked to Neverember and collected my gear but had to step away for a little while.
    When I came back it seemed that I had to talk to Neverember again. I never left the Moonstone Mask, but my path and mission took me back to Neverember.

    I wish that after talking to Neverember that mission would complete and I would get a new mission to talk to Jarlaxle, so if, after talking to Neverember someone has to log or gets DCed or whatever, they would pick back up just needing to talk to Jarlaxle.

  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,118Member Arc User
    Neverember is in an instance. Until you complete the instance, DCing long enough for the instance to close will always cause the player to lose all progression. Taking the chest completes this particular instance.

    The only way to avoid this would be to have the meeting in normal Mask, but I suspect they don't want other PCs wandering in to what is supposed to be a private meeting.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    Can Neverember perhaps cough up some Runestones and companion gear?

    Seeing most players on live probably don’t have any Runestones at all, and some may have no companion gear.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 577Member Arc User
    pitshade said:

    Neverember is in an instance. Until you complete the instance, DCing long enough for the instance to close will always cause the player to lose all progression. Taking the chest completes this particular instance.



    The only way to avoid this would be to have the meeting in normal Mask, but I suspect they don't want other PCs wandering in to what is supposed to be a private meeting.

    I know that Neverember is in an instance, but I had left that instance. I talked to Neverember, collected my gear, and left that room. Before talking to Jarlaxle I quit the game.

    When I came back later and logged that character back in the mission path led back to that room to talk to Neverember again.
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,118Member Arc User
    That sounds like a latency issue. I may import a character and test that then.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,118Member Arc User
    edited March 24
    I exited the meeting after collecting my chest, immediately went to character select and return. The Journal tracker briefly said, "Embark on Neverember's Quest" but then switched to, "Talk to Jarlaxle..." as expected. It's possible you quit before the client and server talked to each other, due to network issues or lag? Did you get the contents of the chest both times, so that it was duplicated in your inventory?

    New Quest to talk to Antiquities Vendor auto started to give more information about m16.

    That vendor is far out of the way from most player's daily routine and about as far as one can get from the Moonstone Mask. Why not have it go the long neglected Town Crier near the Emporium?

    Intro Quests for Tyranny of Dragons and Acquistions, INC are still auto-starting on loading the character for the first time. Quests can be dropped.
    Post edited by pitshade on
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,118Member Arc User
    edited March 24
    Went to Preview to check something and just took that same character. Apparently if you are gone long enough, it does reset the quest and as I was initially worried about... you keep the gear from the first run. So retracting my earlier post and can confirm, this also allows a probably mostly harmless bit of duping. Still shouldn't be allowed to go live.

    Checked further, you don't get the chest again after leaving the instance.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • ncoreadev#4548 ncoreadev Posts: 26 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    drumon88 said:

    Ported over and ran my lowest ilvl character through the intro quest today, an 8700 ilvl on Live/7800 ilvl Preview CW. Some notes.

    First, the "gauntlet"
    1. Things were respawning faster than I could kill them during the Gauntlet, an issue I didn't have with better-geared characters.
    2. Things were respawning and attacking me while I was talking to NPCs at the first "safe spot". This didn't happen in the previous build but I'm unsure if it's due to the longer TTK from me not being geared as well, or due to some change to the zone/quest/whatever.
    3. I died 9x before the end of the gauntlet, this is obviously not tuned for lower-geared 70s despite being a leveling/progression oriented quest. Compared to not even really getting below 80% health on my 13.5k-live templock, dying once on my 10.5k-live tankadin, and somehow managing to completely skip it and port straight to the tavern on my 16.5k-live GWF and 13k-live DC.

    Someone not in full Primal or better with R10 or better enchants is really going to struggle with this, and with the level cap raised to 80 new/newer/mothballed characters that don't have endgame mod13+ gear or high rank enchants are in trouble while just trying to level up. This induces a near-mandatory pause at 70 to gear up before continuing to level cap (I'm sure there's players that have the skill or luck to get through it without dying, I admit I'm not super familiar with CW yet but she is in full primal with R8 enchants), which seems like either a huge oversight or a really bad design decision.

    Then, the "bottom of the well"
    1. Mobs in here did not seem to have any more health than the zombie rotters on the shore. I'm glad to see this. It was generally easier than the gauntlet due to lower mob density.
    2. Some mobs in here randomly clocked me for hundreds of thousands of damage, while other mobs of the same name were hitting me for 2-3k. Need to clean up the outlier mobs still, something I'm disappointed to see in week 4 on preview, and also something I didn't have an issue with with the other characters. I had 2 deaths to 1-shots and 2 more deaths to hits that took 80%+ of my health while fighting a group. I also had at least 2 other close calls where I got nearly 1-shot but was able to blink away and use a health pot, then kite.
    3. It's IMO overly big for an INTRO QUEST, I know a low ilvl CW doesn't kill things very fast in general but start to finish it took me over an hour. For an intro quest. And half of that was just running, since you can't use mounts in here.
    4. COMPANION PATHING IN HERE IS HORRIBLE. HOOOOOOORRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIBBBBBBBLLLLLLEEEEEE. My companion got hung up on every little bump, nick, cranny, corner, dead mob, etc. It would run in circles. It would sit there juuuust out of melee range and stare at mobs. It would randomly start running the wrong direction. In general it seemed to move significantly slower than any other zone, even when not hung up on something. Tested with all 11 companions I had in my folio.

    Lots of issues I haven't run into previously. Not a smooth or enjoyable experience and while DOABLE, it definitely needs a lot of attention still.

    First of all thank you for posting your thoughts on your play through.

    What part of the intro quest are you calling "The Gauntlet"? Do you mean the winding path between the beach and the encampment? or the entire run from Jarlaxle's ship to the Yawning portal?

    Were you able to get rotters or crabs into the encampment before Nash and her party left?

    The undead in front of the encampment should only spawn after the previous encounters in that area have been slain, so if additional rotters are spawning in before that... that shouldn't happen.

    When you died 9 times, what killed you? and where did you respawn?

    Once you get into the Yawning Portal and talk to Durnan, the intro quest is over. The bottom of the well is the beginning of the module proper.

    Lots of issues are being addressed and sometimes it takes a while for fixes to make their way to preview.

    Thank you again!





  • drumon88drumon88 Posts: 142Member Arc User
    edited March 27

    drumon88 said:

    Ported over and ran my lowest ilvl character through the intro quest today, an 8700 ilvl on Live/7800 ilvl Preview CW. Some notes.

    First, the "gauntlet"
    1. Things were respawning faster than I could kill them during the Gauntlet, an issue I didn't have with better-geared characters.
    2. Things were respawning and attacking me while I was talking to NPCs at the first "safe spot". This didn't happen in the previous build but I'm unsure if it's due to the longer TTK from me not being geared as well, or due to some change to the zone/quest/whatever.
    3. I died 9x before the end of the gauntlet, this is obviously not tuned for lower-geared 70s despite being a leveling/progression oriented quest. Compared to not even really getting below 80% health on my 13.5k-live templock, dying once on my 10.5k-live tankadin, and somehow managing to completely skip it and port straight to the tavern on my 16.5k-live GWF and 13k-live DC.

    Someone not in full Primal or better with R10 or better enchants is really going to struggle with this, and with the level cap raised to 80 new/newer/mothballed characters that don't have endgame mod13+ gear or high rank enchants are in trouble while just trying to level up. This induces a near-mandatory pause at 70 to gear up before continuing to level cap (I'm sure there's players that have the skill or luck to get through it without dying, I admit I'm not super familiar with CW yet but she is in full primal with R8 enchants), which seems like either a huge oversight or a really bad design decision.

    Then, the "bottom of the well"
    1. Mobs in here did not seem to have any more health than the zombie rotters on the shore. I'm glad to see this. It was generally easier than the gauntlet due to lower mob density.
    2. Some mobs in here randomly clocked me for hundreds of thousands of damage, while other mobs of the same name were hitting me for 2-3k. Need to clean up the outlier mobs still, something I'm disappointed to see in week 4 on preview, and also something I didn't have an issue with with the other characters. I had 2 deaths to 1-shots and 2 more deaths to hits that took 80%+ of my health while fighting a group. I also had at least 2 other close calls where I got nearly 1-shot but was able to blink away and use a health pot, then kite.
    3. It's IMO overly big for an INTRO QUEST, I know a low ilvl CW doesn't kill things very fast in general but start to finish it took me over an hour. For an intro quest. And half of that was just running, since you can't use mounts in here.
    4. COMPANION PATHING IN HERE IS HORRIBLE. HOOOOOOORRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIBBBBBBBLLLLLLEEEEEE. My companion got hung up on every little bump, nick, cranny, corner, dead mob, etc. It would run in circles. It would sit there juuuust out of melee range and stare at mobs. It would randomly start running the wrong direction. In general it seemed to move significantly slower than any other zone, even when not hung up on something. Tested with all 11 companions I had in my folio.

    Lots of issues I haven't run into previously. Not a smooth or enjoyable experience and while DOABLE, it definitely needs a lot of attention still.

    First of all thank you for posting your thoughts on your play through.

    What part of the intro quest are you calling "The Gauntlet"? Do you mean the winding path between the beach and the encampment? or the entire run from Jarlaxle's ship to the Yawning portal?

    Were you able to get rotters or crabs into the encampment before Nash and her party left?

    The undead in front of the encampment should only spawn after the previous encounters in that area have been slain, so if additional rotters are spawning in before that... that shouldn't happen.

    When you died 9 times, what killed you? and where did you respawn?

    Once you get into the Yawning Portal and talk to Durnan, the intro quest is over. The bottom of the well is the beginning of the module proper.

    Lots of issues are being addressed and sometimes it takes a while for fixes to make their way to preview.

    Thank you again!





    By Gauntlet I meant the run from the boat to the first camp just off the beach, I guess it is the twisty turny bit.

    I was getting absolutely swarmed by mobs, both crabs and zombies, during the "clear a path to the encampment" segment, they just kept spawning even after that stage in the quest tracker updated and the gate dropped. I think at one point I had 20-30 mobs on screen in various stages of health, but was too busy trying to not get my head stomped to take a screenshot.

    Yes, every mob that was still alive followed me into the camp, including a crab. And once I finally burned down the last one, zombies were respawning within the camp, including a group that literally popped up out of the campfire. The NPCs did not help me :(

    First death happened within sight of the first campfire by the rowboat I used to get ashore, but it was 100% my fault and not a buggy mob, I wasn't watching my health and face-tanking the zombies. Remaining 8 deaths happened in the grand melee before the gate to the first encampment, 5 or 6 before the gate dropped and the remainder after it dropped, mostly to zombies but I think once I got AoE'd by a crab. All 9 saw me respawn at the campfire by the rowboat, even though at least 1 of the deaths I was standing within the blue ring for the campfire in the camp. I can't remember if I got the "you have discovered a new campsite" blurb or not.

    After the cutscene in the camp, the segment between the camp and portal also saw mobs continuing to spawn endlessly, but I used my pet as bait and ran for it, going through the portal as soon as I was out of combat.

    The Ettercap (first big mob in the first room after going through the portal) 1-shot my CW, and if I recall correctly also 1-shot my paladin. I never got within melee range of it on my warlock, but assume it would have 1-shot it as well. Ettercaps, regardless of zone, seem to be broken and are hitting for ridiculous damage. I think I also got 1-shot by a Collector, and definitely

    I am aware the intro quest is over as soon as you get to the Yawning Portal. I'm serious, from talking to Jarlaxle in the Moonstone Mask to first zoning into the Yawning Portal took a few minutes over an hour. Between the deaths, the crazy respawning mobs, the 4 unskippable cutscenes, and how slow a low-gear CW kills things it just felt overly long.

    I've heard ya'll plan on making the cutscenes skippable, that will help a fair amount, and if the endlessly respawning mobs is a bug that will also help a lot, but it's still pretty long for an intro quest. Felt like the intro to Chult all over again, cool the first time but needs to come with a playtime warning and the cutscenes definitely need to be skippable.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited March 27
    @drumon88 well that sounds odd and super buggy (and nothing like my experience with that area in multiple passes sort of buggy).

    Question: did you equip all the gear Neverember gave you in the Moonstone Mask to get your iL in the game?

    Question 2: when you logged in did you do a full respec or did you just start playing after slotting Powers?

    I ask because I recently noticed that the respec the game forces can be reluctant to work properly, it’s like you get stuck between the old game code and the new code, but manually respeccing clears that problem. The first question is because I recently ran a Paladin through using just that free gear and her few companions, and didn’t experience the difficulty you indicate.

    So outside what sounds like a bug (with things spawning in the campfire), your experience is very different to mine with a low geared character.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,914Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    drumon88 said:


    3. I died 9x before the end of the gauntlet, this is obviously not tuned for lower-geared 70s despite being a leveling/progression oriented quest.

    Well, if he is not ready for the lvl 70->80 content then maybe he should not do it right away?

    However, I just thought of something regarding this. Let's say you have a brand new 70, who is undergeared for the content (and the harder lvl 70 campaigns).

    Now assume this character does not start the 70->80 campaign, but just does random queues and such. He might eventually level up to 80, but still have his (sub-par) gear. What will happen then? As a level 80 doing lvl 70 content, will he get scaled down even further, to become even less able to do the lvl 70 content?
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • drumon88drumon88 Posts: 142Member Arc User

    @drumon88 well that sounds odd and super buggy (and nothing like my experience with that area in multiple passes sort of buggy).

    Question: did you equip all the gear Neverember gave you in the Moonstone Mask to get your iL in the game?

    Question 2: when you logged in did you do a full respec or did you just start playing after slotting Powers?

    I ask because I recently noticed that the respec the game forces can be reluctant to work properly, it’s like you get stuck between the old game code and the new code, but manually respeccing clears that problem. The first question is because I recently ran a Paladin through using just that free gear and her few companions, and didn’t experience the difficulty you indicate.

    So outside what sounds like a bug (with things spawning in the campfire), your experience is very different to mine with a low geared character.

    Some of the new gear. I was in a mix of the new gear, a couple hand-me-down rings (Gravestalker+4, Expert Huntsman Raid Ring), and Primal. Primal weapons. All of which had the same or higher ilvl compared to the Vistani 2.0 set from Neverember.

    I did the forced respec. I have no idea if it was a "good" build, but it's not like they give us much choice and I generally don't feel like the choices they do give us matter all that much.

    I may transfer him back over with a bunch of AD and try again with a manual respec, I'd not heard of that particular issue with respeccing before. I'm assuming the horde of mobs chain spawning is indeed a bug, as my other characters didn't experience that as well (I'm pretty sure I mentioned I didn't have anywhere near as much trouble with my pally, who while higher ilvl doesn't really kill things that horribly much faster). I'm willing to chalk it up as an outlier mixed with me not being great at CW, but also feel like it's still valuable/important feedback. Not everybody that'll be running that quest is going to be a well geared, heavily experienced player, and regardless of whether it's intended as such or not it will be seen as an immediate progression point once a player hits 70.

  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    edited March 28
    drumon88 said:

    I'm assuming the horde of mobs chain spawning is indeed a bug, as my other characters didn't experience that as well (I'm pretty sure I mentioned I didn't have anywhere near as much trouble with my pally, who while higher ilvl doesn't really kill things that horribly much faster). I'm willing to chalk it up as an outlier mixed with me not being great at CW, but also feel like it's still valuable/important feedback. Not everybody that'll be running that quest is going to be a well geared, heavily experienced player, and regardless of whether it's intended as such or not it will be seen as an immediate progression point once a player hits 70.

    Yeah, this seems to be some serious outlier, on several fronts. After reading your experience I got my lowest progress CW and ported it over, stripped everything I could from it, equipped the freebie gear and went and tried the run from the boat to the Yawning Portal.

    While it was noticeably harder than on my CW that has everything completed to Chult and much better gear it was still within the realms of achievable.

    Watch Low iL Wizard: March 23rd Patch from ObsidianCrane on www.twitch.tv

    Now I don't deny I'm an experienced player, but I'm not great at CW either, Paladin is much more my thing.



    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,914Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30
    "Vistani"? Surely that's not intentional?


    Make NWO great again, please....
  • pitshadepitshade Posts: 4,118Member Arc User
    At the start, most of the stuff in that chest was just Vistani.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,914Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    ...and all but one got fixed
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Posts: 276Member Arc User
    edited March 31
    One character was unable to get gear or the option for the chest during this quest. That needs to be fixed or looked into. Also personal suggestion allow vips to go to yawning portal at any level. And without having to do the intro.
    Post edited by thevampinator on
  • ncoreadev#4548 ncoreadev Posts: 26 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    Thank you for playing through the intro more and sending out updated feedback.

    Vistani Bracers? Looking into it.

    Spawns on the beach? There should only be 3 encounters of undead (1-4 each that spawn on proximity) on the way to the big clearing. It's possible to kite them all the way up to the gate which can lead to an overwhelming mob with waves of reinforcements.

    Crabs? There should only be 2 crabs. If more spawn, please let us know.

    The encampment gate? Some work has been done here... that gate will now only open when all of the beach is clear, including those on the way to the open area. It should not be possible to get pre-encampment foes into camp.

    Post encampment and the open back gate? it is possible to drag rotters back into the encampment and the guards should help out considerably. (2 melee and 2 more archers)

    Tuning of the M16 intro critters is ongoing. Your input is valuable.

    Unfortunately, the changes mentioned here won't be in your hands until the next patch.

    Thanks again folks.


  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,914Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 1
    Small bug. I was taking one alt through the intro quest, and just after reaching the chest with the undermountain gear (but before taking anything from it) my phone rang, so I left the computer, and when I came back, I had been auto-logged out. When I logged back in I was standing outside the private room, so I went back in and went through the same dialogue as before, but this time I did not get the chest (presumably because it is only awarded once), and the items were permanently unavailable to me.

    Maybe the "chest awarded" should only be set when I first pick something from the chest - not sure if that's feasible, though.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Posts: 56Member Arc User
    My legendary Undermountain greataxe went from ILvl of ~700 to an ILvl of 1. I didn't notice until I walked into an expedition and was hitting a boss for 1-10 damage. Not cool. (The sword knot was still 700 though.)
  • jelara1jelara1 Posts: 40Member Arc User
    For Rogues, the chest in the starting room is giving a main hand item: Undermountain Dagger that is Item level 1, with 5-6 damage, 1 combined rating and 10 power.
    The offhand item, Undermountain Stilletto is fine (item level 526, stats as expected for this item)

    I didn't see a problem like this on my wizard so I think it is rogue specific.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    The Undermountain Armor Neverember gives you gives you a 5% bonus in Barovia.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    L77 Barbie equipped with legendary undermountain greatsword scaled to L74 in wyllowwood expedition. The weapon scaled to iL 1 with 10-13 damage range. +1 combined rating, +10 power, +2 crit and acc. Expedition impossible scaled as such. The weapon was appropriately leveled before entering.

    Addendum: It did not unscale after leaving the expedition. We replaced it with a training sword until he hit 80 and was able to get a new weapon
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