Official M16: Barbarian Feedback

Feedback: Barbarian
Greetings adventurers, Asterdahl here! This thread is for providing bug reports and feedback on the upcoming changes to barbarian (formerly great weapon fighter) in Module 16. If you haven't already please take a moment to read Noworries' M16: Overview thread.The most important takeaway in terms of class feedback is: we are still making changes to class powers, both functional and numerical. We wanted to get your hands on the changes sooner than usual. However, as a result, we ask that you realize what you see on preview will change, sometimes dramatically before launch. If you find your perfect build on preview, it may not be the perfect build on live. Powers you feel are very strong, may not stay as strong. We ask for your patience with these changes.
Finally, there are some known issues going into the initial preview build. Particularly in feats, a number of feats may reference powers that are not available when the feat is unlocked, or in some rare cases, reference powers which no longer exist. We have made a number of changes coming out of closed beta, and it is our short term goal to have these feats updated in the near future.
As always, thank you for taking the time to come check things out on preview, we look forward to your feedback!
Formatting Your Feedback and Bugs
For posting feedback and bugs, please follow the following format to ensure your feedback and bugs are seen clearly and processed in a timely manner, thank you!Type: Bug/Feedback (Please only choose one)
If you are listing a bug please have this text in RED, if you are posting an opinion or feedback please use CYAN. If you are replying to another user's post, asking a question, or just engaging in general discussion, please do not color your posts, general discussion is welcome and we will read all of it, regardless of color! You can use BBCode to color your text:
<font color=cyan>This text will display in cyan.</font>
<font color=red>This text will display in red.</font>
Examples:
Bug: Threatening rush said that I should lunge towards the target, but I can only use it if the enemy is right next to me.
Feedback: I don't like the changes to Unstoppable, I miss the temporary hit points.
Comments
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everything gotten nerfed all classes i guess since devs couldn't balance the game they went and nerfed everything to make all classes weak if this module goes live i'm quitting this game for good and never investing in it anymore of my time or money
there is nothing i put my eyes on in the preview that is going for the better everything i see is a nerf left and right
nerf to powers / buffs / companions / enchants and the list goes on
this is really horrible11 -
Those mobs are still level 70, and they're insanely hard now?6
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romuloraia said:
Extreme Nerfed
can make any HE small solo in barovia(luring all), with trash Mod16 is impossible kill the first group of enemies
For me If this comes online, I'm out
waste my time to be frustrated to fail if want play solo ? no thx
web have lots of better mmo's
Did you respec? Did you know there are new curve of stats and new caps?. Did you make sure you have enough ArPen?2 -
The Barbarian needs a serious boost to (base-) damage, because this is awful.
When the main purpose is to deal damage and not much else, going live with these numbers will cause a mass exodus of Barbarians.8 -
Well devs learned the hard way. Base damage of the GWF was horrible from the start. It truly did depend on those massive destroyer buffs.5
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OK so we'll start with one of the basics ... Almost all powers are based on live rank 1 ... including damage (all damage need to be increased from the BASE), %increase (example wrathful determination is 2.5% while on live it's 12.5%) ... they should all be based on rank 4 in order to be relevant ...
Now there are a lot of feats granting FLAT numbers ... Not only they aren't even relevant numbers (they're worth less than a companion equip bonus) but they're also prone to be useless in the future when the power creep will increase ... At this point either make them % based (increase CA by x%) or completely change them ...
I will edit this and make more feedbacks when i'm less depressed about the class becoming so bad and unresolved6 -
Weapon Master's Strike or with the new name Blademaster's Strike does not hit aoe, it only hits 1 enemy in a group.
I don't know if its intended nerf or bug but it should be aoe attack otherwise we have no aoe clear.0 -
Many stats work differently than they did in the past, so for instance, providing a 10% increased change to crit is identical to providing 5000 crit rating in every way. We are currently discuss how to display these values (as ratings or percentages) expect a consistent display across player powers for all classes in the next few weeks.c3rb3r3 said:OK so we'll start with one of the basics ... Almost all powers are based on live rank 1 ... including damage (all damage need to be increased from the BASE), %increase (example wrathful determination is 2.5% while on live it's 12.5%) ... they should all be based on rank 4 in order to be relevant ...
Now there are a lot of feats granting FLAT numbers ... Not only they aren't even relevant numbers (they're worth less than a companion equip bonus) but they're also prone to be useless in the future when the power creep will increase ... At this point either make them % based (increase CA by x%) or completely change them ...
I will edit this and make more feedbacks when i'm less depressed about the class becoming so bad and unresolved
Thanks for the feedback. One large scale change that has happened across all classes is that at-wills, encounters and dailies have been re-balanced relative to one another. At-wills are weaker, encounters are stronger, and dailies are much stronger. Without any class mechanics or feats involved, your DPS should be broken up into 1/5th at-wills, 1/5th for each of your 3 dailies, and 1/5th daily.dwindling#8527 said:The Barbarian needs a serious boost to (base-) damage, because this is awful.
When the main purpose is to deal damage and not much else, going live with these numbers will cause a mass exodus of Barbarians.
So, if you're just using your at-wills, things will definitely feel slower, but encounters and dailies should feel very impactful. With that said, I would like to say that Barbarian is one of the classes most in need of further adjustments right now, and it will be getting a number of changes over the next 2 weeks to make sure it is on par with other classes.
If you are fighting in campaign zones, keep in mind that those zones are now scaled, and we're still working on how that scaling affects you. Try playing in the new leveling zones. Also, if you have any other classes, try playing them in the scaled and leveling zones as well and see how they stack up. Barbarian shouldn't be significantly lower than other classes right now, but I there will be changes coming.
Specifically, coming out of the previous modules, Barbarian had a lot of table setting; setting up buffs and debuffs, in order to deal respectable damage. We're generally moving towards, but especially for Barabrian, dealing more significant damage directly. Not only does doing a lot of table setting feel strange as a Barbarian, it felt weird even when the class was great weapon fighter, you're all about swinging a huge weapon after all.
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Hello @noworries#8859 @asterdahl . I’m posting on behalf of someone that isn’t allowed on the forum anymore or even mentioned by name.
I want to say that i really love the changes done towards the Class Revamp, Boons and Companions etc. I do think that the concept and the idea behind it was good. I’m glad you heard my feedback on class revamping and it gone exactly as i said through different posts of friends posting on my behalf, or me posting on different sites where one of the Community Team that departed 1 year ago shown it to you guys. Anyway the Revamp was needed and it was done alright.
So let’s get down to my feedback for Barbarians, and how i envisioned my idea going through with these changes:
From my first impression these are the things i wish to be changed before the Barbarian goes to live, the current version of Barbarian looks really bad.
Starting off with :
I. Atwills
1)Sure strike : 2nd,3rd and 4th hit of Sure Strike is dealing the same dmg, this is a nerf from live version.
2)Reaping Strike: Please remove this at will from the game, like seriously this is not going to work at all, it doesn’t matter what is being done to it, the problem is with the animation and the Casting time, and you always get interrupted, its not going to work
3)BladeMaster Strike: it should increase the damage by 10%
4)Threatening Rush it should be moved into the DPS specc, and Wicked Strike should be moved as the 3rd Atwill for TANK specc, and Brash Strike should be the 4th atwill on TANK specc. Or put Trheatening Rush as a 2nd Atwill and ADD a new ATWILL instead of Reaping strike.
II. Encounters:
1. Not So Fast , Restoring Strike, Mighty leap need a huge upgrade, there were some feats in Instigator Paragon and Sentinel that were making these Powers to be a bit useful, could you please add them straight to Encounter straight?
2 On the TANK specc there needs to have more Utility and Usefullness for the Daring Shout and Come and Get it. Litterarly all of the powers on Live that were USELESS got nerfed, same with the ones that were Usefull got nerfed to be used as rank 1 instead of 4. Now our DPS is crippled, but our TANK specc isn’t good either. How do you guys intend to play any tank class if there is, no DPS or anyway to maintain a AGGRO.
Please look into Daring shout and Come and Get it to make these filled of threat generation and also self defensive buffs and some Utility buffs towards the group.
3. Change Grandfissure from the DPS specc into the TANK specc instead of TakeDown, place Battle Fury as a rank 80 Power for DPS specc.
III. Daily Powers
1. Switch Indomitable Strength from the TANK specc, into the DPS specc instead of Cresecendo, Switch Slam and have it replaced with Avalanche of Steel.
IV. Class Mechanics
There isn’t much to say about this, i belive it’s being done right.
DPS specc gets BattleRage + Sprint
TANK specc gets Unstoppable + Parrying
Really good job on this, and you guys listened to our feedback on this.
V.Class features:
1. Currently Trample the Fallen is still bugged, it doesn’t work against CC to immune targets, so that is a bummer, please fix this issue.
Also Destroyer class feat it is nothing without Focused Destroyer tier5 from Destroyer, can we please combine these to work as 1 class feat?
Steel Blitz is the only worth class feature currently out of the DPS specc, Wrathfull determination is quite weak, and Steel Resolve need a complete rework, or we could get the same one from the Fighter class.
Steadfast determination was useless as rank 4, now its a rank 1 class feat
As for Weapon master and Bravery i don’t understand why they got so heavily nerfed instead of giving flat % they are only giving Stat ratings, not to mention that they are like rank 1, instead of rank 4.
2. On the TANK specc there is literarly no class feature worth taking, please REWORK them, there is no way those class feats can help you to keep aggro, or stay alive to TANK, or keep your allies ALIVE. Thats what a TANK needs to do.
I wont say anything about the FEATS as of yet, because i haven’t really looked into what other classes feats are gettin, and i also don’t kno if the Barbarian should keep his self buffs of the Destroyer or not, but currently on how i read the FEATS all of them feel like tier 1 feats, they are really weak compared to what FEATS are on LIVE.
As for GENERAL there are 2 things that i am curious about.
1. Marathon runner: it says it’s increasing the runspeed by 3% , well TANK Specc can’t run.
2. Unbreakable WIll: Reduces Damage Dealt by 30%, adds 5000 Defense, and increase threat generation, i hope it’s just a tooltip error, or i don’t know how to read it, but tell me that the meaning of this is that TANK specc is taking 30% less dmg, right?
Please do these changes, the synergy between powers don’t feel right at all, and they still need alot of buffs atm, so atleast let’s get the Rotations right.
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well when I meant %increase it was %increase to existing stat (understand it as a multiplier) but we need to get a base damage increase everywhere first to see how it goes.asterdahl said:Many stats work differently than they did in the past, so for instance, providing a 10% increased change to crit is identical to providing 5000 crit rating in every way. We are currently discuss how to display these values (as ratings or percentages) expect a consistent display across player powers for all classes in the next few weeks.
by the way i'm very disappointed to see these powers still exist in the game:
• Reaping Strike
• Steadfast determination
• Mighty Leap
• Restoring Strike
You either add a big effect on it or delete these powers because nobody will ever take them they're basically here for beginners to level up they're irrelevant.
As for the tanks spec it's still useless because it has no way to generate constant and viable aggro as of right now there is not enough sources of threat
I'll make another post later on which powers have way too low stat numbers2 -
My current feedback after doing one Random: Leveling que.
I have over 200k health. Woohoo. I ran up to a Cyclops, 1 -2 hits and I am Almost dead. I start attacking and like others have mentioned, damage was low.. although someone figured out how to 1 shot them with his class. Couldn't figure out who.
I took the tank spec. I could not hold agro, expecially with all the single target AT-Wills and that useless stand like a sitting duck charging up one hit no good. On live I use the At-Will that has broad horizontal strikes, can't remember the name offhand, and unless I miss my guess from the description it was moved to Dps... buh?
Blocking seems to work, I think, since when I held shift I would take 0 damage (bug?) so I could live through stuff if I blocked all the time.
I miss my roar, finding it in dps and untouchable by me was... upsetting.
for now
End of Line...3 -
c3rb3r3 said:
well when I meant %increase it was %increase to existing stat (understand it as a multiplier) but we need to get a base damage increase everywhere first to see how it goes.asterdahl said:Many stats work differently than they did in the past, so for instance, providing a 10% increased change to crit is identical to providing 5000 crit rating in every way. We are currently discuss how to display these values (as ratings or percentages) expect a consistent display across player powers for all classes in the next few weeks.
by the way i'm very disappointed to see these powers still exist in the game:
• Reaping Strike
• Steadfast determination
• Mighty Leap
• Restoring Strike
You either add a big effect on it or delete these powers because nobody will ever take them they're basically here for beginners to level up they're irrelevant.
As for the tanks spec it's still useless because it has no way to generate constant and viable aggro as of right now there is not enough sources of threat
I'll make another post later on which powers have way too low stat numbers
I'll certainly be examining the powers you called out to ensure they have a viable place in at least some builds. Barbarian is in the worst place of the three tanks, that being said, if you do try tanking, be sure to use some of the powers which state that they add additional threat, if you're having trouble keeping aggro. Daring Shout, Challenger's Slash and Takedown (for single target) should all be big helps in keeping aggro.
I plan to invest a lot of time into Barbarian adjustments over the next week.
5 -
> @heraldfayez#8520 said:
> everything gotten nerfed all classes i guess since devs couldn't balance the game they went and nerfed everything to make all classes weak if this module goes live i'm quitting this game for good and never investing in it anymore of my time or money
>
> there is nothing i put my eyes on in the preview that is going for the better everything i see is a nerf left and right
> nerf to powers / buffs / companions / enchants and the list goes on
>
> this is really horrible
Send me your stuff before you quit please. Thanks!6 -
@asterdahl Even with having all the aggro abilities put on you still can NOT keep aggro even slightly. I also found even using the shout (which is suppose to put you at the top of the enemies threat list) You actually don't ill pop it to try and peel off the healer or squishy DPS but the mobs just ignore me and continue attacking everyone but me. I have zero ability to tank on that class you can't hold aggro and staying alive or doing damage is just as hard. This rework NEEDS REWORK.2
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Barbarian is high on my priority list, and I will be ensuring that it can tank as well as paladin and fighter. We have done some recent internal playtests on the preview build and one of our testers was able to hold aggro as a Barbarian. However, I will be taking a close look at its aggro generation and mitigation abilities this week.xsmallz14x said:@asterdahl Even with having all the aggro abilities put on you still can NOT keep aggro even slightly. I also found even using the shout (which is suppose to put you at the top of the enemies threat list) You actually don't ill pop it to try and peel off the healer or squishy DPS but the mobs just ignore me and continue attacking everyone but me. I have zero ability to tank on that class you can't hold aggro and staying alive or doing damage is just as hard. This rework NEEDS REWORK.
2 -
Ok but having to stack all the aggro abilities on to my bar when I would rather play a different way with my tanking is IMO stupid design. Like Im sorry but this Mod is making it feel very pigeonholey like you can't play at all how YOU want to play because there is no viable versatility. In Mod 15 you had the option to build your build in a whole lot of ways you could build to your play style with how many options you had. In Mod 16 there is 3 options and they all suck and isn't what play style I desire to play.1
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I'll talk to our tester about what build he was using, but I don't think he took a full tray of aggro abilities. The goal is not that you'll need to take all aggro abilities to keep aggro, but that you can mix and match in most cases. You'll probably need to bring at least 1 aggro generating encounter and at-will as a tank.xsmallz14x said:Ok but having to stack all the aggro abilities on to my bar when I would rather play a different way with my tanking is IMO stupid design. Like Im sorry but this Mod is making it feel very pigeonholey like you can't play at all how YOU want to play because there is no viable versatility. In Mod 15 you had the option to build your build in a whole lot of ways you could build to your play style with how many options you had. In Mod 16 there is 3 options and they all suck and isn't what play style I desire to play.
Unfortunately I can't help you if you want to tank without taking any tanking powers. You say that requiring tanking powers to tank is a stupid design, yet, if that weren't the case, tanking powers would have no purpose. The goal of almost any group is to get through the content as fast as possible, why take a mitigation or threat generating ability if you never need it?
That said, the more confident you become, and the better your damage though, the more you can swap in damaging powers. You can also swap in damaging powers if you're running with weaker DPS, as you won't need to struggle as much to maintain a threat lead. Do keep in mind though, that the more you can keep the enemy's attention, and prevent the healer from struggling to heal you, the more your team as a whole can focus on dealing optimal DPS.2 -
People don't roll a gwf/barbarian for tanking purposes. I swear I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Might as well make rogue tanks while you're at it.Ninurta - 16.1k Half-Orc GWF
Ereshkigal - 12k Tiefling SW
Aurora Ravensong - 11.6k Drow CW3 -
I more meant I take the at will aggro and the shout for threat generation and that should be AT LEAST able to hold aggro somewhat but its not. And there isn't tanking abilities really for barbarian. A tank normally can hold aggro while also support/self-sustaining themselves. Barbarian fills like its in a super weird place with that. They can't hold aggro nor can they damage and they have no support or reliable self-sustain. And I feel like I can't pick and choose what aggro abilities I want or what powers I think would help me tank because the powers themselves are not balanced well. Like Reaping Strike (the self heal IIRC) would be a nice ability to help self sustain but the damage it deals is nothing and the healing you get from it is about 1/3 of the damage from 1 hit from a mob and it doesn't even help with aggro. Just more needs to be done to make it playable and fun.1
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Barbarian still has access to the Blademaster paragon path which is pure DPS. Great Weapon Fighter had a tanking feat tree for the longest time that just wasn't viable, so we decided to finally make this a viable choice. This simply gives more options for tanking so that there are more tanks to complete group content with.nl54#3191 said:People don't roll a gwf/barbarian for tanking purposes. I swear I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Might as well make rogue tanks while you're at it.
That said, if you don't like tanking, by all means stick to Blademaster, there's no need to play Sentinel.
Thanks for the feedback, we agree with you that Barbarian is not in a great place right now. I will be making some significant changes over the next few weeks.xsmallz14x said:I more meant I take the at will aggro and the shout for threat generation and that should be AT LEAST able to hold aggro somewhat but its not. And there isn't tanking abilities really for barbarian. A tank normally can hold aggro while also support/self-sustaining themselves. Barbarian fills like its in a super weird place with that. They can't hold aggro nor can they damage and they have no support or reliable self-sustain. And I feel like I can't pick and choose what aggro abilities I want or what powers I think would help me tank because the powers themselves are not balanced well. Like Reaping Strike (the self heal IIRC) would be a nice ability to help self sustain but the damage it deals is nothing and the healing you get from it is about 1/3 of the damage from 1 hit from a mob and it doesn't even help with aggro. Just more needs to be done to make it playable and fun.
2 -
-Post edited by rafamarques#5700 on1
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wrong dont talk for people or words into people mouths, u dont know what people want. People will play it as a tank and a dps thats why it got paths for both, I swear its like people are born without brains now. Wanna play dps? play the dps path , wanna play tank, play the tank path, is it really that hard to understand? I will be playing a barbarian tank so proved you wrong on no one does.nl54#3191 said:People don't roll a gwf/barbarian for tanking purposes. I swear I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. Might as well make rogue tanks while you're at it.
2 -
No need to apologize, thanks for going the extra mile to provide your feedback here on the English forums!rafamarques#5700 said:about reaping strike...
you have 3 primary problems here, live or preview.
1 - being a manual casting and not automatic - like aimed shot for exemple - holding your attack for only 0,1 sec less than the "limit" (2,7 instead 2,8), is enough to wasting a lot of time/damage.
2 - stack bonus/chance on hit to trigger some effect"x" vs number of hits over time. so... just to give a exemple, offensive recovery+reaping strike will be counterproductive.
3 - exposed, passively, to enemies attacks (control in the first place). if you are not interrupt, receive some extra determination... should be a heavy damage bonus, but anyway.
the single advantage of that power have is the big radius, nothing more. poor damage, "added effects",synerg to every other power/feat/class feature (steel blitz and so on)... anyway. aesthetically is a great power.
about a lot of other encounters damages... the diference between the majority of encounters, live or preview, is too big and that low damage powers dont have any good effect, great radius, range, or future synerg to compensate it (maybe punishing charge now).
sorry my terrible english
I understand that people are pretty unhappy with reaping strike all around, so I'm going to definitely make some adjustments to it. As you say there are also quite a few barbarian encounter powers in a bad spot, that will also get adjustments. Such as mighty leap and punishing charge.3 -
Since I play console mostly my pc testing character isn't really that great in comparison, but the at-will Blademaster's Strike(WMS replacement) since its target based not AoE makes the power rather meh compared to it's old self, im fine with the debuff being removed, but the AoE part of it matches the animation, gives you more of a reason to use it and also gives a player a reason to use Destroyer class feat for AoE/Campaign areas since currently there's a fair lack of decent AoE to even keep destroyer going, which AoE of the at-will will solve that.
Haven't gotten to Brash Strike yet to test it, and you know reaping is...
Sure Strike is fairly alright though i'm sad to see the follow up hits dmg increase being reduced from its former self, but it would help keep it as a staple power to use for ST.
Do consider switching Takedown and grand fissure, GF doesn't make much sense for the dps path and Takedown would suit DPS more, though Takedown wouldn't make a good level 77 power so have Takedown take one of the following powers position Hidden Daggers or Battle Fury.
Steel Resolve should probably get a revamp, doesn't fit in the dps path, could possibly fit in the Tank, but I could never see it being used versus the rest.
Weapon Master adding 1,500 Crit doesn't seem like enough to justify it's use like the old WM, maybe think about giving it a decent boost. (Was typically used for those not at 100% crit back in older mods)
Maybe reconsider Unbreakable Wills self dmg reducer, dealing dmg still plays a part in keeping aggro.
In general from other peoples overall testing of the classes gwf currently falls shy above dc for dps, and the lowest tank out of the tanking classes. It lands about 56% as effective of the top dps HR(100%) being top with TR very close behind with 99%, then CW 84%, SW 70%, GF 68%, Pally 64%, GWF 56%, DC 50%. Overall Gwf would need a decent boost to get it up to where it's supposed to be in terms of dps.Post edited by ltsmithneko on3 -
I'm almost certainly going to be changing this back to an AoE and making adjustments to other at-wills to compensate. To give a little background and transparency to why Barbarian is in such an awkward state: the designer who was working on Barbarian at the start of Module 16 development (which started way back last summer!) actually left the company during development. He left in the middle of making adjustments to the classes he was working on. This is not an excuse for Barbarian being in such an awkward state, I just thought it might give some context. He simply did not have time to finish the project before leaving.ltsmithneko said:Since I play console mostly my pc testing character isn't really that great in comparison, but the at-will Blademaster's Strike(WMS replacement) since its target based not AoE makes the power rather meh compared to it's old self, im fine with the debuff being removed, but the AoE part of it matches the animation, gives you more of a reason to use it and also gives a player a reason to use Destroyer class feat for AoE/Campaign areas since currently there's a fair lack of decent AoE to even keep destroyer going, which AoE of the at-will will solve that
His work, including the class reworks he was working on were distributed to various other designers. We gave those classes another pass and fixed up a bunch of issues and made various adjustments, but in the case of Barbarian there were unfinished and awkward designs that we hadn't had a change to return to until recently.
There are actually quite a few last minute changes that Barbarian received between the final closed beta preview build and this first preview build. Barbarian was in an even more awkward spot just a few weeks ago, and these changes were all improvements to the core design. However, I did focus a lot on making sure to bring in line some powers that were quite over the top. I did this, so that we didn't have to bring them to preview and immediately nerf them.
That said, I didn't necessarily have time to buff up everything else to compensate for these changes, and many powers are still in a very awkward state. So I'll be focused on addressing those issues as soon as possible. I'd like to thank all of our Barbarians for their patience in the next week or two while I get things into a better place.5 -
Can someone post the feats for both paragons here for us console guys?Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.0
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Overall, Barbie is terrible. Cant hold aggro with tank spec, cant do dps with dps spec.
It is the single weakest class, and my 5k hours are ending here. My other class is OP. not playing that either. Shame, was gonna put in a few bucks, to finish my r14s.1 -
Did you not see all posts that GWF dps and tanking will be seriously readjusted in next weeks? If you think that some of the skills are too weak then just post feedback here.gromovnipljesak#8234 said:Overall, Barbie is terrible. Cant hold aggro with tank spec, cant do dps with dps spec.
It is the single weakest class, and my 5k hours are ending here. My other class is OP. not playing that either. Shame, was gonna put in a few bucks, to finish my r14s.2
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