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Official M16: Fighter Feedback

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  • dolreydolrey Posts: 627Member Arc User
    edited March 2
    I like GF changes. Smart tanking from modules 1-2 welcome.

    But there is 1 problem that tanks will have. As you can see at screenshot [Feytouched enchantment] in m16 can be activated only by your damaging daily powers. So this means that every daily power will decrease damage of your target by 20% (at higher ranks of enhancement).




    And the problem is that all defensive daily powers of GF don't deal damage so they can't activate [Feytouched enchantment].
    Also they give same 20% of protection for group as this [Feytouched enchantment]. This means that GF has no reason to use all new defensive daily powers to decrease incoming damage by 20% because he can use offensive daily and have damage+protection at the same time.

    For example daily power [Phalanx] give you and your allies only 20% damage mitigation:



    While for example [Earthshaker] give you 3s stun+damage+same 20% damage mitigation from [Feytouched enchantment]:


    So this fact can cause low popularity of new daily powers and can badly affect gameplay of GF or of orher classes. And in order to adress this I would like to ask to add to all daily powers ability to activate effects of echancements. Or just bring back old mechanics where it can be activated with encounter powers.

    @asterdahl could you please tell are developers going to do something with this problem or not? Thank you.
    Post edited by dolrey on

  • grimahgrimah Posts: 1,658Member Arc User
    edited March 2
    So far so good. Though I can't give a comparative analysis against other classes yet.

    1. Dig In I think is just terrible for both trees. It's just so similar to block but instead you cannot move, I'd rather have block + sprint. It especially does not work as DPS tree as it makes you inactive, something DPS should never have to do.

    If you wish to keep it in. I would suggest adding functionality to it. As someone has mentioned for Tank it can absorb then explode damage when it ends. Or add a heal. Or aoe(party) Guard/block. Anything to make it feel not like block.

    And for DPS I would allow you to move whilst Seething, and generate a damage bonus for Seething to offset not doing anything, something like X critical severity/chance boost for 10 seconds for every 10 Vengeance from Seething.

    2. Also I don't really know what Reave was suppose to be for. Would make sense if there was a javelin throw to couple with Shield throw. And would be very nice if shield throw bounced 2-3 times.
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  • dolreydolrey Posts: 627Member Arc User
    edited March 2
    grimah said:

    So far so good. Though I can't give a comparative analysis against other classes yet.

    1. Dig In I think is just terrible for both trees. It's just so similar to block but instead you cannot move, I'd rather have block + sprint. It especially does not work as DPS tree as it makes you inactive, something DPS should never have to do.

    If you wish to keep it in. I would suggest adding functionality to it. As someone has mentioned for Tank it can absorb then explode damage when it ends. Or add a heal. Or aoe(party) Guard/block. Anything to make it feel not like block.

    And for DPS I would allow you to move whilst Seething, and generate a damage bonus for Seething to offset not doing anything, something like X critical severity/chance boost for 10 seconds for every 10 Vengeance from Seething.

    2. Also I don't really know what Reave was suppose to be for. Would make sense if there was a javelin throw to couple with Shield throw. And would be very nice if shield throw bounced 2-3 times.

    Absolutely agree about [Dig in]. It is useless in practice when you have to stay against croud of monsters with high damage.
    -Using shield from shift key you can move and some monsters can't attack you because they have to run after you instead of attacking you.
    -While if you use [Dig in] you just pop like popcorn because all monsters stay around you dealing damage.

    I haven't tested it in PvP so looks like that maybe [Dig in] can be useful there. But for PvE it is almost useless.

  • xdruidgregxxdruidgregx Posts: 57Member Arc User
    edited March 3


    Also while going through my enchantments i've found odd utility buff on my crual enchantment, it gives 1,8 % of hit point strength. What does that mean and what is it's use?

    Mount insignia bonus "Protectors Camaraderie", woudl be nice if it would be activated by any skill used by companion not only attack skills

    I have checked for a bit DPS paragon of Fighter, in my opinion mechanics shoudl be diferent a bit. It could work like this:
    regular block would cause to sprint like GWF have now on live ( sprint woudl deplete guard meter), TAB would blok attacks like block works normally and while blocking damage vengeance is charging ( both block mode use same stamina meter) - just an idea.


    Post edited by xdruidgregx on
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Posts: 525Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    After one day of preview testing, where I have completed half of the new campaign, I can completely agree with RJC9000 that the 'tank' and 'dps' trees for the Fighter need some rethinking. Here is why:
    1. The tanking tree gives the passive 30% bonus, but the at wills are incredibly poor in damage. I am over 20k on preview, running stats that would make me be able to withstand the lvl 83 mobs. But my At Will damage is just terrible. I am not talking the inability to kill in 1 hit. I am saying the inability to kill a mob in 10 hits. Now consider that you have a player base on the tanking tree in PvE solo, and they will become incredibly frustrated with the inability to kill things at a reasonable rate.
    2. This means that you will need at minimum a 2nd loadout for the dps tree. But this does no better. The at wills are still terrible. Based on my stacking of boons and such, I am able to pop a daily about once every 20 seconds, which allows me to kill the whole mob in PvE, but this is what you are moving away from. And I doubt new players will enter at above 20k.
    3. The trees do not have a real synergy. The tank tree has synergies that would help a dps, and the dps a tank, making them sort of a cross pollinated hybrid, that weakens both.
    4. Animation for the at wills are just bad. Heavy slash? And they can miss small enemies. I spent about 5 minutes using HS to try and kill a small spider, which just smiled at me as I missed him over and over (lvl 70) and my accuracy is 30k+.
    5. Reave...oh my god. What is that? You gave us the TR at will? And its magnitude is only 25? I tried it out on a lvl 71 mob.
    It aggroes them from the distance, but the damage is so low that all 4 of them were on me before one of them was below 80% hp. If I want a distance aggro, I will use the silly apparatus thing that I can throw at them. And since taunt is removed for the dig in function, the tank OR dps has no way to get aggro otherwise.
    6. Dig in is very clumsy to use. I spent the latter part of several hours yesterday perfecting a rotation where it would be useful.
    I guess the idea is to hold down a position and explode out for added damage. Except, getting out of the dig in position is a buggy mess and slow. Additionally, after I am now full of vengeance on my meter, the loss of time to get the vengeance bonus does not equal just trying to get my daily to pop and kill them all anyway...which is much faster, and I don't need to go into dig in to get it. Perhaps the dig in animation is the way it is because you are avoiding the determination setup of the GWF, where the Fighter must stop and crouch to get its meter up, thus an active 'passive.' As mentioned, I can ignore the whole vengeance meter completely and just kill better and faster without it.

    I will say more later. I am not at all opposed to the rework. But, since new players will not have the ratings I have, and will do even less damage than I do at a slower pace, I doubt the changes will be accepted.</font
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  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Posts: 525Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 2
    I looked at the synergies of the two Fighter trees as shown in the feats section:
    For Vanguard, you have
    1. Cleave + Bull Charge, where Bull Charge can increase Cleaves magnitude 25 (to 40)
    2. Brazen Slash + Piercing Thrust (chance to reset the encounter)

    For Dreadnaught, you have
    1. Heavy Slash + Piercing Thrust (increasing thrust mag 200 to 500
    2. Brazen Slash + Heavy Slash (20% chance to increase HS mag 200 for 1 attack)
    3. Commander Strike + Mow Down (if under CS debuff, MD does 1000 more mag

    From this, in both pathways you have Brazen Slash and Piercing Thrust. One can guess from these synergies that the main way to produce damage for the Fighter is through these.

    But, you have already stated that HS should be a staple in the Dreadnaught's rotation, but that it should not be spammed continuously. Thus, it is not designed to be an AT WILL even though it is indeed an AT WILL? The rotation for dreadnaught would be 5xBS, 1 HS, 1 Piercing thrust, CS, MD...and perhaps an anvil for threat management?

    If one does not use this rotation (or variation thereof) for DREADNAUGHT, these feat selections become worthless. So both my at wills, and 2 of my encounters and 1 of my dailies would be pre-selected based on these 3 feats choices.

    With Vanguard, both At wills would be used (cleave and brazen slash), bull charge and piercing thrust, leaving one encounter and the two dailies. But the buff is much weaker (cleave is currently very weak).

    I do not mind a Fighter rework to completely split the Tank and the DPS track. What is incredibly disheartening is that I am locked into a very specific playstyle from feat choices.

    The bad part about mod 6-15 was that several of the paragon specific encounter feat choices were not equal, and thus avoided.
    But, there was a way to select around those because there were many more options. Here, there is no way around the synergies. I can only select the other one option. Now, it may turn out that I will want Brazen Slash, but the predetermination of play choice is excessive. 3 of 5 choices for DREADNAUGHT with predetermined synergies? Excessive.


    Post edited by checkmatein3 on
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  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Posts: 525Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    The tooltip for STR does not show the damage increase %. I hope this is just a tooltip bug, and not a formulaic bug?
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  • xdruidgregxxdruidgregx Posts: 57Member Arc User

    For the tank tree, feat 1, the two choices are either to select shield slam generates threat and no longer knocks opponents back OR all at wills generate threat while guarding, which will include shield slam.

    I think there might be that skills have same name for some reason. Top feat make shield slam generate threat and not knowk back (encounter skill called "Frontline Surge" from mod 15) and the other generater threat while blocking with at-wills, that is what i think on that subject. Unleas i missunderstood what u ment there.
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Posts: 525Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    For the tank tree, feat 1, the two choices are either to select shield slam generates threat and no longer knocks opponents back OR all at wills generate threat while guarding, which will include shield slam.

    I think there might be that skills have same name for some reason. Top feat make shield slam generate threat and not knowk back (encounter skill called "Frontline Surge" from mod 15) and the other generater threat while blocking with at-wills, that is what i think on that subject. Unleas i missunderstood what u ment there.
    Yeah, I got it mixed up with Shield Bash (the name through me off). Thanks
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  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Posts: 525Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 2
    So, I am ignoring the synergies in both Vanguard and Dreadnaught regarding Piercing Thrust, and I am testing ignoring Vengeance on Dreadnaught, and I am liking how both perform better.

    I actually like Shield Slam (formerly Frontline Surge) without the knockback. In mod 1-5, I had FS as my bread and butter since tanking was a key point, and control of mobs. The problem was that in some scenarios you want the knockback and others you don't. Most dps players do not want their targets pushed away from them, so I guess we will learn the scenarios where they do. But for solo PvE play its fine. The option of no knockback will do better for threat generation in a mob. But now, if there are bosses that have no mobs and are solo target, I would need a 2nd Vanguard (tank) loadout or swap this out and lose the feat?. Still needs more testing, but it underlines my first point. Before, the feats covered a range of encounters that we could swap out, and the ones that were very specific were kept in all the time. If I take out Shield Slam, 20% of my feat for that loadout becomes useless. Are you wanting us to have more loadouts to cover the more limited options?
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  • xdruidgregxxdruidgregx Posts: 57Member Arc User

    No info about deflection severity in character window, i think good choice would be to put % in tooltip of deflection as its constant for each class instead of "large amount of incoming damage" expression.

    Agro doesnt work as intended, on tuern ET doesn't place me as focus for boss. Been with barbarian and as he over DPS me boss was focusing mostly him instead of me.

    BTW I think instance statistic window (X) shows automatically when pass amount of time in dungeon descryption.

  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Posts: 519Member Arc User
    Hello there fellas!

    I own a 17.8 GF tact with conqueror combo. I literally never had problems with holding my aggro. I went on preview with my guildies and it feels like now we can only taunt for a moment and because of the low damage I do, after second everything turns away from me and starts to hit the dps classes.

    This is a problem. And a big one. I also agree with what rjc said - playing right now just doesn't seem fun. That's sad, because I love to play GF. And with m16 it seems that not only we won't be able to constantly hold aggro, but also be a boring class to play.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,054Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 2
    Feedback:
    My biggest problem with the Vanguard path is a lack of aggro-grabbing options and threat maintaining options.
    Grabbing:
    Without Tab Mark, unless Vanguard is always the first into the room and Enforced Threat off cooldown it is very hard to grab aggro, especially in crowds.
    And because Vanguard's damage is abysmal, very very hard to keep aggro when we get it.

    Consider adding threat generation to all Vanguard at-wills, not just a feated addition.
    Consider adding threat generation to "Dig In". Otherwise we just sit there while mobs turn and attack our teammates.
    Consider increasing the threat multiplier for Vanguards. We bring absolutely NOTHING else to a party except the ability to take damage. Vanguard should be the #1 aggro magnet in the game, otherwise it is useless.

    Edit : My HTML skills suck. Pretend this is in Cyan.

    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • xdruidgregxxdruidgregx Posts: 57Member Arc User
    edited March 2

    Something is seriously wrong with CN, I get one shotted
    by the first mob on the bridge even with block, i wont even mention that for some unknown reason to me my stats are cut on eTOS, eCC, eGWD, CN, FBI, eMSP and TONG. i would presume my stats would be cut on those easier instances if cut at all but on harder once, makes no sens to me. As on all mentioned except CN first mobs ( i just atatcked first group in each instance) deals me damage that I am able to survive hpefuly long enough to be heald by healer one shot on CN doesn't give me that chance.


    Sorry if its off topic here, I'm testing as tank so its easier for me to write here if i find something then jump from topic to topic. I try to stick to the topic from now on, sorry again.

  • ethanidas#6763 ethanidas Posts: 7Member Arc User
    edited March 3
    I am not a super numbers guy. i play and go with what feels right. I do try to look up builds on youtube and other sites to have a decent idea of what i want, and what is possible. So i cant disect this like some of you guys do, which is impressive. But from playing this, and looking the way this is done. It just doesnt seem fun. I feel like i do much less damage, I cant change in the encounter powers i like, cus they are in a different tree(subclass? Tree? dont know the correct term) And the one awesome at will power i like has been taken away? Nah, this just dont seem fun anymore. I can deal with having to get new gear for my companion, seeing as 2 of the rings i used, arent usable anymore, which is damn annoying. But not being able to choose the at will, and encounter powers i want on the fly? Nah, no thx.
    Post edited by ethanidas#6763 on
  • lowjohnlowjohn Posts: 1,031Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    The feat that causes Brazen Thrust to reset the cooldown on Piercing Thrust doesn't function, at all. Or at least, not in the 300+ attempts I made. Maybe it would have proc'd on attempt 500 or 600? But 0.2% isn't exactly "a chance" and should probably be either clearer, or maybe the feat is just broken.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,054Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 3
    Feedback:
    "Dig In" has delay in kneeling and getting up.

    "Deep Breath" feat for "Dig In" has waaaaaay too long a kneel time (5 seconds).

    Most mob fights are half over by bthe time "Deep Breath" kicks in anyway.
    Not worth the bother for a 5% damage boost and mysterious unquantified "Threat generation".
    While you are taking a knee for 5 seconds you pass on doing much more damage and building threat then is worth a 5% damage reduction. (corrected)

    And the threat boost (can't tell if it works) is a waste because in that 5 seconds of nothingness you have already lost all the aggro you just painstakingly grabbed.

    Recommendation:
    Shorten the minimum "Dig In" time for "Deep Breath" to 3.5 seconds.
    Same as my earlier comment: Dig In should put us to the top of the threat list. That would make it very useful.

    I asked Volo about it, but the drunken idiot just started singing a song about himself.
    https://i.imgur.com/vvm6Gna.png

    Edit: corrected the "Deep Breath" effect. reduced damage of 5% still not worth kneeling for 5 seconds.
    Post edited by dread4moor on
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,054Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    More Feedback: regarding the Vanguard Tree...
    @asterdahl , You said the logic of this rework was to make Vanguard a dedicated tank build, yes?
    Okay. I came to this game in 2013 to play tank. No problem. I am buying into that logic.

    So, @asterdahl , please explain why...

    Tab Mark: Deleted.
    This is a GFs main method of grabbing aggro at a distance before the GWF charges in. Now we have no way to grab the mobs without close contact with each and every mob. ET and the 2 other AoEs have very short range. Couldn't you just remove the Mark debuff effect and leave it as a hard taunt?

    Cleaving Bull:
    DPS boost. Why is this in Vanguard? Shouldn't it boost threat or debuff enemy damage?

    Stonghold:
    Self heal. Okay, I like to stay alive. Thanks. But does nothing for the party nor helps me maintain aggro.

    Sheltering Wind:
    Heals party... are we healers or tanks? Shouldn't this be some form of party protection?

    Brazen Thrust (sounds like a pornstar name, but anyway...):

    Boosts a DPS power and recovers (thought we were moving away from recovery) a DPS/mild threat ability. Not tanky.

    And saving the groin-kicker for last...

    Knight's Valor: "nearest [single] ally". Repeat. Nearest. Repeat. Single... including companions.
    Aaaaargh! Nooooo!
    How is this MORE tank-like?
    Spoiler alert... it is not. It is LESS. MUCH less.
    This went from our single greatest tanking encounter to almost useless.


    I think @rjc9000 and someone else mentioned some of these.
    Apologies if this is redundant. Consider this a "Ditto" or "What HE said" if so.

    So, why, @asterdahl , in a re-work intended to focus Vanguard Fighter on tanking would you stack it with NON tanking feats/powers and eliminate/neuter BOTH of our greatest tanking abilities (Mark and KV)?
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • wintermurlocwintermurloc Posts: 106Member Arc User
    I tested the fighter for a day exclusively on vanguard, I'll try dreadnought Tom. So my feedback is from the tanks perspective.

    I found tanking exciting and I didn't really have problems with managing how I took damage and for the most part I had fun. I was able to manage aggro as efficiently as I could with the tools but this also means I purposely let a few minions go because I felt the party should be able to handle those and instead focused on targeting the elites or the biggest meanies along with whatever minions I could target. As it stands I felt we need an aoe at will that generates threat and there is none.

    The damage from cleave is very low that trying to maintain threat with it is not possible all the time. Threatening rush is a single target threat multiplier and I would like it if you could remove the threat generation from threat rush and increase it's damage since its single target and give cleave a higher threat generation.

    Moving on to at wills while guarding, I forgot their new names but ill just call it aggravating strike as it was. We have been requesting a qol change since forever to remove that stupid forward movement while using it. It's been so annoying that even currently on live we don't use it on bosses like Ras nsi or the acrolith because we go through the bosses textures like as if the boss doesn't exist. Just do it already. If we want to move forward while guarding, we can do that ourselves and we don't want aggravating strike to do that for us.

    The encounters are good enough for a tank and I totally got rid of enforced threat and boy, was I happy to 😁
    I found myself using linebreakers assault which is probably going to be a staple for tanks, anvil (highest damage and our best single target aggro) and bull charge or shield slam for a little bit of cc as required. I was quite surprised with the amount of damage I did as a tank, in some cases I outdid a dps class but that's probably because they had no clue what they were doing, anyways it was respectable damage for a tank.

    Now what I totally hate and absolutely cannot tolerate is "DIG IN". What the hell is this? OMG it sucks totally. Everything about it is a cause for discomfort. It lags while trying to activate it and while trying to cancel it off. It bugs out often that you get rooted in that spot even after deactivation and you can't move. Regarding it's functionality, I don't know how this is helpful or how we can use it. To be fair I tried every scenario to try to make use of this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and it's just so horrible. The only thing about it that may be of use is to some newbie tank standing on a large red circular splatter zone and activating it for the 360 degree guard. This needs a total rework. I'm absolutely certain there is no fighter in favour of dig in. So pls let's dig ourselves out of this mess while we still have time or else this will be the next qol change we will we requesting for an eternity. Plus don't let this go live.

    I'll be trying out the dreadnought Tom so more feedback on that in due time.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Posts: 1,234 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer

    asterdahl said:

    We may make additional improvements to dig in, but they are likely to remain defensive improvements.

    OK, then maybe instead of damage output while dig in it could force enemies to attack tank as tank while doint that cant do anything then sit there.

    Other thing is that agro indicator (good idea btw, i like it) but as tooltip sais it shows only status of selected enemy ( one that i'm aiming at) might be more useful for tank if perhaps all enemy that are focused on tank to be affected by visual effect of mod15 "Knight Challenge" (though it might be strain for GPU if there are lot og enemies focuseed on tank), alternavive could be old X mark that would apear above head of enemies that are focused on tank. That way I as tank can distinct which enemy is fixed on me and which i should try to agro more.

    tooltips of powers that say "Increas threat" in my opinio should say also by how much. Also "Stamina regeneration" on character screen tooltip should be more clear. It sais for me now that "Stamina regeneration +48% ", 48% of what, whats the base value of stamina regeneration? 1%/s or 10%/s. would be more clear is it would say "Stamina regeneration 10%/s" which would indicate that my stamina regenerates 10% of my full bar per 1s (its just an example value wise)

    "Quick turnaround" tier 5 boon indicates that it increas Recovery Speed, I presume it should be Recharge Speed instead as there are no Recovery Speed in character window

    When we're at boons their tooltip should say whats the chance certain boon would be activated, its too vague for me at this point

    Shouldn't new "Knight's Challenge" also work while in dug in state?, it does sais "while blocking" but still.

    Also you might consider restricting how much character mesh would grow when Dread warrior pasive skill kicks in continuasly. Its funnt when i grow as big as a mountain for the first time but it obstruct view if my character covera whole screen

    Companion Enhancement sais "when companion is near", how near? Is it just flavour expretion and skill works as long as companion is in combat range to the player?

    thats about it for now waht I found. Aside of that i have few ideas.


    1. as i like my Drowned weapon set skill i use it till this time but its outdated stats wise, there could be Upgrade kit item in campaign shop that would reroll weapod statistics to level of certain campaigh and left set skill untouched. That upgrade Kit would cost as much as new weapon in campaign ( that could be also used for belt and necklace.
    2. As there is collection page in game that by this point serve no other purpose then preview items it could work like this. When you unlock new item u can use that entry as skin to transmute item without need of that item in your inventory

    Thanks for the feedback! That said, if you could please direct any non-fighter feedback to the appropriate threads, such as companion or general, that would be super helpful!

    By the way, yes Knight's Challenge does work with Dig In. On the topic of the aggro meter, we had a lot of internal feedback early on that people were frustrated to not see the red Xs and know that they had mobs attention. However, we'd really like to not muck up the whole screen with Xs over every enemy's head, so I'd ask that you try playing some group content and getting more used to the new gameplay style before deciding whether you still wish they were there.

    I've been tanking a lot in internal playtests, and as I've gotten used to the changes I've had no problem holding aggro. That being said, it does take some time to get used to. The aggro gauge is mostly for being able to aim at a specific enemy and evaluate whether or not you need to pull threat back. For example, some enemies might pick a random target for an AoE and face away from you, the aggro gauge can help reinforce that you haven't lost aggro.

    That said we are planning some improvements. For instance, currently the aggro gauge stays on the last mouseover target you had if you aim at an empty space. However, it currently empties out when you aim at an ally, or an ally moves in front of your cursor. We're planning to make that not happen, and for it to remain on the last targeted enemy.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Posts: 1,234 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    dolrey said:

    I like GF changes. Smart tanking from modules 1-2 welcome.

    But there is 1 problem that tanks will have. As you can see at screenshot [Feytouched enchantment] in m16 can be activated only by your damaging daily powers. So this means that every daily power will decrease damage of your target by 20% (at higher ranks of enhancement).




    And the problem is that all defensive daily powers of GF don't deal damage so they can't activate [Feytouched enchantment].
    Also they give same 20% of protection for group as this [Feytouched enchantment]. This means that GF has no reason to use all new defensive daily powers to decrease incoming damage by 20% because he can use offensive daily and have damage+protection at the same time.

    For example daily power [Phalanx] give you and your allies only 20% damage mitigation:



    While for example [Earthshaker] give you 3s stun+damage+same 20% damage mitigation from [Feytouched enchantment]:


    So this fact can cause low popularity of new daily powers and can badly affect gameplay of GF or of orher classes. And in order to adress this I would like to ask to add to all daily powers ability to activate effects of echancements. Or just bring back old mechanics where it can be activated with encounter powers.

    @asterdahl could you please tell are developers going to do something with this problem or not? Thank you.

    Thanks for pointing this out, the status of Feytouched has also been on my mind. I'll be talking with the designer who was handling weapon enchantments and see what sort of adjustments we may need to make.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Posts: 1,234 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    grimah said:

    So far so good. Though I can't give a comparative analysis against other classes yet.

    1. Dig In I think is just terrible for both trees. It's just so similar to block but instead you cannot move, I'd rather have block + sprint. It especially does not work as DPS tree as it makes you inactive, something DPS should never have to do.

    If you wish to keep it in. I would suggest adding functionality to it. As someone has mentioned for Tank it can absorb then explode damage when it ends. Or add a heal. Or aoe(party) Guard/block. Anything to make it feel not like block.

    And for DPS I would allow you to move whilst Seething, and generate a damage bonus for Seething to offset not doing anything, something like X critical severity/chance boost for 10 seconds for every 10 Vengeance from Seething.

    2. Also I don't really know what Reave was suppose to be for. Would make sense if there was a javelin throw to couple with Shield throw. And would be very nice if shield throw bounced 2-3 times.

    Seethe does increase your damage—any time your vengeance is above the 50% threshold, you deal 10% more damage with all attacks. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding your feedback?

    We are considering some adjustments to Dig In, however, I feel that Seethe is currently in a fine spot.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Posts: 1,234 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer



    Also while going through my enchantments i've found odd utility buff on my crual enchantment, it gives 1,8 % of hit point strength. What does that mean and what is it's use?

    Mount insignia bonus "Protectors Camaraderie", woudl be nice if it would be activated by any skill used by companion not only attack skills

    I have checked for a bit DPS paragon of Fighter, in my opinion mechanics shoudl be diferent a bit. It could work like this:
    regular block would cause to sprint like GWF have now on live ( sprint woudl deplete guard meter), TAB would blok attacks like block works normally and while blocking damage vengeance is charging ( both block mode use same stamina meter) - just an idea.


    Thanks for the feedback! That said, if you could direct non-fighter related feedback to the threads specifically about those topics (such as companions) it would be extremely helpful as we try to sort through and respond to feedback.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Posts: 1,234 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer

    Frontline Surge shows no targeting area. It makes aiming at groups much less accurate.

    If this is the intended new action for M16, then get rid of the double tap action on the keyboard. The whole point of the double tap was to allow for targeting on tap 1 and firing on tap 2.

    There is a bug with all linear, two-step targeting powers not displaying their aiming indicator. I apologize for this, it will get fixed!
  • asterdahlasterdahl Posts: 1,234 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer
    rjc9000 said:

    Wow, you posted at 12:15? How late in the office did you guys stay?


    asterdahl said:


    First: at-will damage. When you say at-will damage is too low, are you saying that in relation to any other classes specifically? At-will damage has been lowered for all classes across the board. We are targeting that at-wills represent roughly 1/5th of your damage in an optimal scenario and all straight DPS powers, without taking into account feats or class mechanics. (Encounter powers also represent 1/5th each, or 3/5ths total, and dailies represent the final 1/5th.)

    This means at-wills are doing less, encounters are doing slightly more, and dailies are doing significantly more, relative to the old paradigm. This is true across the board for all classes. It takes some getting used to, that's certainly true, I haven't found it to be too bad in either solo or group settings, at endgame at least, there's usually plenty to keep me occupied.

    As far as the at-wills that had their damage lowered, there were some that were not properly balanced against their timing.

    The reasoning that I, many fighter mains, and many Barbarian mains are upset is that the across the board change is not balanced in tune with how the martial classes (GWF & GF, arguably TR) differ from the caster classes (CW, SW, and DC, where OP and HR occupy a middle ground between the two).

    You cannot treat the caster classes and fighter classes as playing the exact same, post changes.

    The caster classes have a design that focuses on Encounter damage, with At-wills being supplementary damage to toss out to buff your encounter damage and as extra chip damage to throw in while waiting for encounters to come off cooldown.

    See: the Warlock passive that curses At-will'd targets or the Wizard's Smolder combined with Swath of Destruction.

    As such, all of these classes have passives/powers/mechanics that allow them to reduce their cooldowns on their encounters, or have some resource that allows them to attack at the expense of consuming a limited resource.

    See: Spell Twisting, Soul Spark Recovery, or even the Divinity pool of the OP/DC.

    ___

    Compare this to the martial classes.

    On live, they currently work in the inverse to the caster classes (assuming you discount 3 hit GF): you use your Encounter Powers for supplemental damage and to buff the damage of your At-wills. Some examples of this design include Knight's Challenge or Hidden Daggers.

    However, on the new system and the caster style is being put onto the martial classes. It does not work.

    Sure, the martial classes have great damage on their encounters and their cooldowns are nearly equivalent in length to the caster classes. However, unlike the caster classes, Fighter has no way to reduce their encounter cooldowns (mostly the same for Barbarian too, as the one cooldown reduction feat available is locked to level 80 and ...).

    So I have no way to reduce my cooldowns and my daily attacks are not intended to be spammed. That leaves my only option to pitifully chip enemies with my At-wills that deal next to no damage.

    Do I deal damage?
    Sure, I can deal it in good bursts with encounters I can only fire off every 20 seconds.

    But it is not fun or satisfying to do when you see your encounters take off a lot of damage ... and then you barely see your At-wills making a dent in the enemy HP bars.

    On the tanking side, you run into the same issue on both Barbarian and Fighter (hard taunts are on a big cooldown and your leaving you to use your basic At-wills for aggro in most situations, but they don't generate enough aggro to matter), though it seems to be an issue of low aggro multipliers more than it is base damage.

    ---

    I think one of my guildmates put the problem the best:

    " Encounters are certainly more impactful, but only because at-wills do almost nothing (on all classes I've tried). I kill stuff fine, but it just doesn't feel good."

    That is why I wanted Fighter to have its Encounter power damage nerfed down, but to have the At-will damage buffed in exchange. Ie, normalize damage across the board between At-wills and Encounters on Fighter (and Barbarian)

    This way, you do not have that unsatisfying feeling where you only feel like you're doing damage when you press an Encounter button.

    You feel like your At-wills are consistently doing damage to the enemy, and then you drop an Encounter power that gets rid of a good chunk of damage.
    We're certainly getting a lot of feedback on at-wills vis-a-vis other powers, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that we may make some adjustments. Just know that those adjustments do mean that the gap between playing skillfully and just holding down left click will narrow significantly, which is what we'd like to avoid.

    That said: on the topic of tanking, I strongly advise you keep trying out new builds, because I haven't had much trouble tanking, that being said, maybe I need to tell my DPS teammates to stop slacking! (Also, on the topic of threat multipliers, powers that say "generate additional threat" have significant multipliers. I know there's a desire to see exactly what they are, I'll try to find some time to give my thoughts on this, and why we currently do not. Know that it's not impossible that we will decide to show them, however.)

    Finally, on the topic of casters shortening their cooldowns with at-wills... I'm also a little worried about that effect. That being said, now that it's here on preview, there's going to be a lot of grumpiness if its reduced. That said, if casters are outperforming melee, we'll definitely be making adjustments. So your continued feedback, parses, etc. are all very welcome.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Posts: 1,234 Member, Cryptic Developer Cryptic Developer


    No info about deflection severity in character window, i think good choice would be to put % in tooltip of deflection as its constant for each class instead of "large amount of incoming damage" expression.

    Agro doesnt work as intended, on tuern ET doesn't place me as focus for boss. Been with barbarian and as he over DPS me boss was focusing mostly him instead of me.

    BTW I think instance statistic window (X) shows automatically when pass amount of time in dungeon descryption.

    I do believe there is an issue with Enforced Threat putting you at about 95% instead of just over 100% of the top of the list, and its been sent to our software team to take a look at it. We wrote a lot of new threat code for Module 16 so we could get better gameplay, so I apologize for the bugs.
  • xdruidgregxxdruidgregx Posts: 57Member Arc User
    edited March 3
    asterdahl said:


    By the way, yes Knight's Challenge does work with Dig In.

    no it doesn't, i just tested it out on LOL and no damage reflection while in dig in state (had no floater indicating my attacker takes any damage and his bar didn't move). unleas it stamina regen all the time and reflect just on block, in my opinion both should work on dig in.


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