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Official M16: Refinement

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  • sundancewanderingwolfsundancewanderingwolf Posts: 65Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    In PE, the trade vendor for enchantments, Black ice isn't showing up. Not to be traded or taken from a box from trade. Not sure if dev team is aware.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,958Member Arc User

    jettauk said:


    Enchantment Exchange

    The Antiquities Dealer in Protector's Enclave will allow free exchanges of enchantments for a period of time after launch. The restriction is same rank to same rank and number of stats to same number of stats.

    Example. You can exchange any rank 12 single stat enchantment for a choice pack that has the other rank 12 single stat enchantments in it (choose one)

    Currently weapon and armor exchanges are not hooked up (they will be before launch), but the standard enchants exchanges are ready for preview.

    There will also be an exchange for Enchantments to non-bonding runestones. This is not yet available on preview.

    Please make the enchantments received from this exchange bound to account. There are already people on the PS4 buying out the cheaper weapon enchantments on the AH inflating the prices so they can exchange them for expensive ones upon release to profit. This will artificially inflate the market both short term and long term. An announcement that the received enchantments will be bound to account should alleviate this.

    That is a horrible idea, binding enchants would only cause unneeded friction with the players, and I'm fairly certain there will be more than enough of that anyway...

    The market will adjust anyway, 6 months after the change, it will have little to no impact on prices by then.
    it also has the opposite effect. this would not inflate the market it will deflate the market due to over supply. it's a good thing anyway you look at it. and like said, in 6 months no one will know the difference and the outcry will be lessened of inconvenience of having the wrong enchants and being stuck with the hot potato. the exchanges really need to be unbound (ofc, unless they also do a mount exchange for leg. that should be boa it would also be nice if they did a artifact set exchange again which should also be boa)
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  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Posts: 583Member Arc User
    When entering Caer Konig my rank 15 radiant enchantment only gives 460 power instead of 1200. My rank 14 azure enchantment also gives 460 defense instead of 1080.

    This happens with level 70 and level 71 characters.




  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 3,097Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    When entering Caer Konig my rank 15 radiant enchantment only gives 460 power instead of 1200. My rank 14 azure enchantment also gives 460 defense instead of 1080.

    This happens with level 70 and level 71 characters.




    Enchantments and runestones have been nerfed heavily. There's little to no point in refining past rank 11 or so.
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  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Posts: 583Member Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    When entering Caer Konig my rank 15 radiant enchantment only gives 460 power instead of 1200. My rank 14 azure enchantment also gives 460 defense instead of 1080.

    This happens with level 70 and level 71 characters.




    Enchantments and runestones have been nerfed heavily. There's little to no point in refining past rank 11 or so.
    In Protector's Enclave everything looks fine. Rank 14 radiant gives 1080 instead of 1000 on live. And rank 15 1200. The change only happens when leaving the Enclave. In undermountain everything seems fine too. But in other zones some kind of scaling applies.

    But why? The zones are level 70 as my characters is.
  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Posts: 583Member Arc User
    Why do enchantments scale? Rank 15 radiant enchantment gives 1200 power in the Enclave. But...

    240 power in Dread Ring
    460 power in Barovia, Omu, Castle Ravenloft, etc.
    1200 in Undermountain

    That's making enchants useless, considering what they cost.
  • tgwolftgwolf Posts: 249Member Arc User

    Why do enchantments scale? Rank 15 radiant enchantment gives 1200 power in the Enclave. But...

    240 power in Dread Ring
    460 power in Barovia, Omu, Castle Ravenloft, etc.
    1200 in Undermountain

    That's making enchants useless, considering what they cost.

    They talked about how they were improving scaling for Zones when your Lv. is scaled down and mentioned overall it would result in those areas being harder.

    Exacting those scaling changes on the items directly is easier than doing it to your stats directly which results in a less precise result.
  • fdsakhfduewhfiuffdsakhfduewhfiuf Posts: 583Member Arc User
    edited March 2019
    tgwolf said:

    Why do enchantments scale? Rank 15 radiant enchantment gives 1200 power in the Enclave. But...

    240 power in Dread Ring
    460 power in Barovia, Omu, Castle Ravenloft, etc.
    1200 in Undermountain

    That's making enchants useless, considering what they cost.

    They talked about how they were improving scaling for Zones when your Lv. is scaled down and mentioned overall it would result in those areas being harder.

    Exacting those scaling changes on the items directly is easier than doing it to your stats directly which results in a less precise result.
    Sure. But all zones mentioned (but Undermountain?) are level 70 zones entered with a level 70 character. Why is there any scaling applied? What's the logic of any scaling if the level of the zone is the same as the player's level?

    It also seems that only enchants are scaled. Other equipment is untouched.

    We need a clear statement if this is a bug or intended behavior.
  • cokefd#5498 cokefd Posts: 8Member Arc User
    About the exchange, I believe there should be open to change any number of stats.

    A lot of players have OP or DC with R14 radiant enchantments. They took the same amount of reagents and had about same or higher value on the AH as some tri-stat enchantments. Players had them just because they were better for the build, not because they were cheaper.

    You may say the opposite from Azure or Dark enchantments, and that could be giving away some advantage.

    The way I see it, it took me some money in wards to get a lot of Radiants upgraded in my OP and my DC to R14, they don't share enchants, I have all R14 on both.

    I have a SW and GWF with most R13/14 enchantments, adjusting the stats to the right current crit/arpen ...

    Seeing an actual investment being thrown due to a refinement adjustment on the game, due to making a decision of having BIS enchantments on the current and past mods, gives me a bit of unrest.

    Giving the players the chance to exchange for what they wait would be seen as a gesture of GENEROSITY, while forcing all that DC/OP to sell radiants to buy the new tri-stat BIS enchantments would be seen as an act of GREED.

  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Posts: 279Member Arc User
    edited March 2019

    -All weapon enchantments are now giving a +4% damage bonus + a meh or less meh bonus; except vorpal. You litterally destroyed many of them. Are you going to change that ? We need versatility. For example, some enchants could help more constantly against control, some could contanstly help for damage resistance (we need survivability) etc. I hope that enchants can escape this new rule of e.g "reduce crit avoidance by 2500".
    -Armor enchants: if I refer to the tooltip, trans negation now offers only 0.3% damage resistance at 10 stacks. What????? And trans eclipse is nerfed to 2400 deflection only. --> to be reworked
    -As for the "normal" enchants and runestones, it is good that you have planned a NPC but classes that used specific enchants (e.g radiant because of powershare) will be somehow frustrated if they get BTA enchants of the same type (monostat)... Maybe you could set a limit (like 5 non BTA enchants then the others will be BTA) and offer more versatility again in the choice.
  • hercules125hercules125 Posts: 427Member Arc User
    I'm curious exactly how the upgrade "streak breaker" works.

    1. Is there a constant value at each rank, or is it random per each item?
    2. Suppose I chew up my entire stack of preservation wards and it doesnt hit this streak breaker and suppose for example the streak number is 100, and I used up 50 pres wards. Is it going to remember the next time I try to upgrade, that I only have 50 more attempts before the streak is broken, or am I starting all over again at square 1 each time?
    3. Can you make public what the streak breaker numbers are? You know eventually people will figure it out just through testing over time.
    4. If it does remember that I used 50 pres wards, and I then sell the item - does the next person get the benefit of what I've already done, or does it start over?
    5. Any visual indicator that the streak breaker was hit, or do we just have to take your word for it?
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,958Member Arc User

    Have to second the above 2 comments (w/o the rage quit) that exchanging Radiants for other single-stat enchants isn’t very useful. If I were building a Mod 16 DC/OP from scratch, I would use 2 and 3 stat enchants on both offense and defense. (Because Assassin’s Covenant isn’t very useful anymore either.)

    It would be better if enchants were exchangeable for some currency, based on the new-system IL, then new enchants were purchase-able with that exchange currency.

    Rads are still going to be the most valuable enchant in the game. for the people qq about the exchange, just don't use it for your rads. trade them in pe for other stuff. people with three and 2 stat enchants are going to be in the same place and the days of cheap single stat enchants are already gone.
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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,958Member Arc User
    I don't have any r14s on preview and I'm not seeing any description here of what is required to get level up your enchants to 15
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  • sephiz#1200 sephiz Posts: 16Member Arc User
    Not sure if some of these are intended but:
    - single stats enchantment exchange box gives triple stats enchantment
    - dual stats enchantment exchange box is missing shiny coin and woven enchantments
    - triple stats enchantment exchange box is missing the black ice enchantment
    - insignia exchange boxes are missing the initiative, fortitude, and brutality insignias. The last one currently has recovery on live.
    - demonic enchantment give 0 crit (at least at rank 14 and 15)
    - dragon hoard enchantment gives 7% chance at rank 14 and rank 15. Judging by the fey blessing enchantment it should be 8% at rank 15.
    - quartermaster's enchantment gives 4.5% chance at rank 14 and rank 15. The pattern seems to be 0.5% increments so rank 15 should be 5%.
  • jettaukjettauk Posts: 14Member Arc User

    jettauk said:


    Enchantment Exchange

    The Antiquities Dealer in Protector's Enclave will allow free exchanges of enchantments for a period of time after launch. The restriction is same rank to same rank and number of stats to same number of stats.

    Example. You can exchange any rank 12 single stat enchantment for a choice pack that has the other rank 12 single stat enchantments in it (choose one)

    Currently weapon and armor exchanges are not hooked up (they will be before launch), but the standard enchants exchanges are ready for preview.

    There will also be an exchange for Enchantments to non-bonding runestones. This is not yet available on preview.

    Please make the enchantments received from this exchange bound to account. There are already people on the PS4 buying out the cheaper weapon enchantments on the AH inflating the prices so they can exchange them for expensive ones upon release to profit. This will artificially inflate the market both short term and long term. An announcement that the received enchantments will be bound to account should alleviate this.

    That is a horrible idea, binding enchants would only cause unneeded friction with the players, and I'm fairly certain there will be more than enough of that anyway...

    The market will adjust anyway, 6 months after the change, it will have little to no impact on prices by then.
    PS4 launch is at a guess about 4 months away, recovering 6 months after launch means we have 10 months of a broken economy because a small section of players (and we all know who they are) are being greedy and have the AD base to do this. Making an announcement that the traded enchantments are bound to account will alleviate this now,

    I'm not advocating that all enchantments are made bound to account only those that are exchanged via the the vendor. They are already doing us a solid by allowing an exchange in the first place rather than having to buy new enchantments. Anyone who moans at them being bound to account to prevent exploitation are just being ungrateful or want to take advantage of the exploit.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,535Member Arc User
    jettauk said:


    Enchantment Exchange

    The Antiquities Dealer in Protector's Enclave will allow free exchanges of enchantments for a period of time after launch. The restriction is same rank to same rank and number of stats to same number of stats.

    Example. You can exchange any rank 12 single stat enchantment for a choice pack that has the other rank 12 single stat enchantments in it (choose one)

    Currently weapon and armor exchanges are not hooked up (they will be before launch), but the standard enchants exchanges are ready for preview.

    There will also be an exchange for Enchantments to non-bonding runestones. This is not yet available on preview.

    Please make the enchantments received from this exchange bound to account. There are already people on the PS4 buying out the cheaper weapon enchantments on the AH inflating the prices so they can exchange them for expensive ones upon release to profit. This will artificially inflate the market both short term and long term. An announcement that the received enchantments will be bound to account should alleviate this.

    I wouldn't worry about that to be honest.
    As @thefiresidecat says, the likelihood of a run on those items due to these goofballs creating so many "BiS" enchants will likely bring the price down rather than send it up as availability for them will skyrocket.

    But what these canny entrepreneurs also seem to be forgetting is that everyone who already HAS an enchant... of ANY type... will be able to turn theirs into the same "BiS" that the hoarders will be trying to sell back to them for FREE. Rendering the need to BUY one from these guys completely unnecessary.

    This is unlikely to be one of those opportunities for a few sneaky gits to make millions off the Auction House. In fact a lot of people might get very badly burned.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Posts: 117Member Arc User
    I think enchantments from exchanging system should be unbound, not being so would create even more issues, because ppl would spend more in order to get the same BiS enchantment unbound, removing the purpose of exchanging system.
    I may have not considered smth, but what's actually puzzling me now is if blue and (expecially) green insignias drop will be balanced enough to allow players upgrading their own insignias, expecially for the ones dropping frop zen pack. My fear is green ones getting more expensive than purple ones (lol) or RNG frustration dropping any kind but the needed one.
    On the good side i see a lot of QoL improvements on the refining side I am looking forward to play with :)
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,958Member Arc User

    jettauk said:


    Enchantment Exchange

    The Antiquities Dealer in Protector's Enclave will allow free exchanges of enchantments for a period of time after launch. The restriction is same rank to same rank and number of stats to same number of stats.

    Example. You can exchange any rank 12 single stat enchantment for a choice pack that has the other rank 12 single stat enchantments in it (choose one)

    Currently weapon and armor exchanges are not hooked up (they will be before launch), but the standard enchants exchanges are ready for preview.

    There will also be an exchange for Enchantments to non-bonding runestones. This is not yet available on preview.

    Please make the enchantments received from this exchange bound to account. There are already people on the PS4 buying out the cheaper weapon enchantments on the AH inflating the prices so they can exchange them for expensive ones upon release to profit. This will artificially inflate the market both short term and long term. An announcement that the received enchantments will be bound to account should alleviate this.

    I wouldn't worry about that to be honest.
    As @thefiresidecat says, the likelihood of a run on those items due to these goofballs creating so many "BiS" enchants will likely bring the price down rather than send it up as availability for them will skyrocket.

    But what these canny entrepreneurs also seem to be forgetting is that everyone who already HAS an enchant... of ANY type... will be able to turn theirs into the same "BiS" that the hoarders will be trying to sell back to them for FREE. Rendering the need to BUY one from these guys completely unnecessary.

    This is unlikely to be one of those opportunities for a few sneaky gits to make millions off the Auction House. In fact a lot of people might get very badly burned.
    probably better to keep your undesirable enchants for awhile after release because so much is going to get turned into bis that the others that still have a place in the game will become under represented.
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  • wisper2048wisper2048 Posts: 183Member Arc User
    jettauk said:

    I'm not advocating that all enchantments are made bound to account only those that are exchanged via the the vendor. They are already doing us a solid by allowing an exchange in the first place rather than having to buy new enchantments. Anyone who moans at them being bound to account to prevent exploitation are just being ungrateful or want to take advantage of the exploit.

    I disagree.

    Enchants will have leveled out prices anyway. On consoles the situation happens just in advance. All enchants are almost the same with some minor buffs/debuffs or minor damage. Pure damage enchants will be less useful than buff/debuff ones. Also for group content, I think, it is beneficial for party members to have different enchants to debuff bosses in the different ways. So, there will be no single BIS that must-have for everyone like it is now. A party is going to benefit from difference in enchants.
  • drconnor#7239 drconnor Posts: 15Member Arc User
    The Anniversary Enchantment and the Heart of Fire Enchantment (given to us at rank 14) will not refine to rank 15. Clicking on "Refine Enchantment" bring them up in a selection screen, but they are not selectable.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    jettauk said:

    jettauk said:


    Enchantment Exchange

    The Antiquities Dealer in Protector's Enclave will allow free exchanges of enchantments for a period of time after launch. The restriction is same rank to same rank and number of stats to same number of stats.

    Example. You can exchange any rank 12 single stat enchantment for a choice pack that has the other rank 12 single stat enchantments in it (choose one)

    Currently weapon and armor exchanges are not hooked up (they will be before launch), but the standard enchants exchanges are ready for preview.

    There will also be an exchange for Enchantments to non-bonding runestones. This is not yet available on preview.

    Please make the enchantments received from this exchange bound to account. There are already people on the PS4 buying out the cheaper weapon enchantments on the AH inflating the prices so they can exchange them for expensive ones upon release to profit. This will artificially inflate the market both short term and long term. An announcement that the received enchantments will be bound to account should alleviate this.

    That is a horrible idea, binding enchants would only cause unneeded friction with the players, and I'm fairly certain there will be more than enough of that anyway...

    The market will adjust anyway, 6 months after the change, it will have little to no impact on prices by then.
    PS4 launch is at a guess about 4 months away, recovering 6 months after launch means we have 10 months of a broken economy because a small section of players (and we all know who they are) are being greedy and have the AD base to do this. Making an announcement that the traded enchantments are bound to account will alleviate this now,

    I'm not advocating that all enchantments are made bound to account only those that are exchanged via the the vendor. They are already doing us a solid by allowing an exchange in the first place rather than having to buy new enchantments. Anyone who moans at them being bound to account to prevent exploitation are just being ungrateful or want to take advantage of the exploit.
    Having enchantments be tradeable for like level enchantments just means that there's going to be an equalization in the cost of all enchants of that level.

    If it's not too expensive for Radiants to cost , it's not too expensive for Silveries to cost . I don't understand why anyone would think this "breaks the economy." It's a one time weal or woe depending on whether you're heavily invested in cheap enchants, or heavily invested in expensive enchants, so the people losing out are going to lose out, but that doesn't mean that the new equilibrium price is bad.

    Expensive enchants will drop in price, and inexpensive enchants will climb in price. It's not a big deal.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    The Anniversary Enchantment and the Heart of Fire Enchantment (given to us at rank 14) will not refine to rank 15. Clicking on "Refine Enchantment" bring them up in a selection screen, but they are not selectable.

    One imagines that's working as intended, as those were bonuses, not actual enchants that were built from the ground up.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    The Anniversary Enchantment and the Heart of Fire Enchantment (given to us at rank 14) will not refine to rank 15. Clicking on "Refine Enchantment" bring them up in a selection screen, but they are not selectable.

    One imagines that's working as intended, as those were bonuses, not actual enchants that were built from the ground up.
    Disagree wholeheartedly. They were given as gifts / campaign rewards, and in the case of the later it took some work to do that campaign so it's very much like a boon in a sense (in the form of an item).

    In neither case did they say "You get an enchant that cannot be ranked up if the ranks expand.", rather they said you get an enchant of max rank. IF anything, the Anniversary and Heart of Fire enchants should automatically get improved to Rank 15 without any refining needed, in order to retain their "max level" status for this new mod.

    Now the more recent gift we got of a Rank 13 enchant pack, is different. In that case it's less than max and we're expected to level it on our own.

    -Gohaken
    Well then report it as a bug in the bug report section and hope that they address it. But I wouldn't be surprised if it's working as intended.
  • mat44444mat44444 Posts: 116Member Arc User

    Hi

    I find it admirable that you have decided after such large changes to the basic game functions to allow players to trade in and receive an equivalently ranked enchantment of their choice. I do however feel the limits you have placed upon this option very petty to say the least.

    Please explain how the effort (or cost if you prefer) differed for levelling up a one stat, a two stat, or a three stat enchantment. I was under the impression (obviously wrongly given your decision) that each type took the same resources and had the same chance ratings of success.

    I would think if fair not to include your new enchantment within this exchange btw

    I look forward to hearing your reasoning

    My thanks to you in advance
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 3,097Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    From looking at runestones, they seem to top out at 660 for rank 15. This seems way underpowered.
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