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ELITE Players are the problem in neverwinter

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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    Iv'e compared when VT was relevant as end-game. If you want to compare after a year, VT could have been soloed, like every other single thing in NW at mod 4/5 So that is moot..
    And that is when most people who knew how to play left the game.

    20 guilds for the Elite? What are you talking about? You realize that the are more people in level 20 guilds than not in...
    All the large, or medium guilds are 20, even the smaller, slower guilds are 16+. Do a guild search, look at the numbers, everyone can join an SH 20 guild without blinking twice.

    And what is the listening to the 'super elite'? You mean those that asked to make external buffs additive?

    Or should we listen to the tiny minority who can't form a group from 2 years old content, due to various reasons, while most of the population running it at will and tired of it. So we get level 15 skirmish? Lets repeat mod5, when anyone who had any idea how to play above randomly mashing buttons quit the game.. Actually we just got it in mod15..
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    To be fair, the new skirmish requires:
    1. AI campaign completion
    2. 10K IL

    So that's not really aimed at complete beginners. Yes, AI isn't that hard, but it takes consistent game play over the course of weeks (like most campaigns), and 10K IL, while also not terribly hard also requires effort to level up artifacts and weapons to purple and an average of... oh... probably R9 enchants including companion gear and runes. For brand new players, that is, in fact a bit of a challenge. Collecting RP is easy for veterans, but not so much for new players that are trying to store enough for multiple item and enchantments upgrades. So, while people might scoff at the "easy" skirmish only requiring 10K IL, keep in mind that's only "easy" for players that have already gotten there. Ravenloft (and really the Chult mods too) were very clearly aimed at the end-game players. Mod15 is aimed at new players (not just new characters mind you, but new players playing new characters). They HAVE to ensure adequate and fresh content at all levels of play, and given the material they chose for mod15, I think they actually did an alright job. It's a little poor in replayablity (worse than previous mods, that is) and the grind to full out the weekly haul is perhaps the worst of any mod they've every produced (seriously Cryptic, one hourly quest? Can you get more phoned in than that?) - however, it's shows some humor and creativity (again, on the first play, after that it's not that funny... though I do still chuckle and Dankgrass' inability to figure out just who Jaza is....)

    The point is - implementation aside, Cryptic needs to make sure there's an adequate mix of content for all levels of play and that's what they've done, warts and all.
  • checkmatein3checkmatein3 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    The comparison between VT and TONG with random queues and an argument against maxed players is an oversimplification. There are three competing trends in the game, that Cryptic has not yet figured out how to solve:

    1. How to keep long term players, who generally spend time looking for every % of advantage and have stores of gold, AD, and experience, and can network in-game and out-of-game INTERESTED in content
    2. How to attract and retain new players through the beginning and mid-stages of player development.
    3. How to monetize elements for both groups so that the company can continue to make content (free stuff does not pay the bills or keep the game going...period.

    As Cryptic has made getting to level 70 easier (compare mod 6 needs for experience) with more items to boost a character, there is a general feeling that END-GAME begins when you reach 70. This is not true. I would say the middle -game begins when level 70 is reached. Like in chess, the first 10-15 moves have been done. At level 70, some of the campaigns are just becoming unlocked, some might be half way done, some almost completed. But the new player is now a middlegame player and must do the campaign grind in turn to get the experience (of the mob types and their mechanics) and the boons that (usually) help overall. This also takes time, unless you buy the monetized shortcut to finish the campaign with a token. Then you skip the experience needed to learn. Do this with 5-6 campaigns and you just left out a lot that can teach things about how mechanics work in a game, and smaller team work, without having dungeon level difficulty. As a player should progress, the dungeons at the end of the campaign (if unlocked at that time), would equal the level of difficulty required. This is where the linear pursuit by play has been shortened via monetization for players who want those dungeons right away.

    Additionally, the Queue system AS IS favors neither the new player, the middle-game player, nor the end-game player (which the OP called Elite). Each ranking of queue is based on the FAULTY assumption by Cryptic that TIL is equivalent to game advancement and ability. There are multiple anecdotes on both sides that show how TIL is a faulty measuring stick. As queue system group dungeons and skirmishes based on ranges of TIL, and only lets players queue for the easy AD rewards and seals when all those dungeons are unlocked for that particular queue, Cryptic has aggrevated the problem between new player/ middle game players who NEED the AD to advance in their builds (impatience and greed as well as wanting to advance like any normal player) and then who rush to queue for RAQ or maybe even REQ, and the end-game players who are just maintaining their characters, or maybe squeezing out the 1% increase, or want to run with some friends, or who are going to run something quick, because the game is repetitive. The issue is not the desire of the new, mid or endgame players. The issue is that they are forced into a queue system where the rewards are not the same for each.

    Simply put, RIQ, RAQ, REQ do not represent the needs of new, middle level and end-game players or their desires for the game. Randomness with the old dungeons was to queue for that dungeon and ONLY get other persons for that dungeon (e.g., VT in mod 2). Now, you queue for a group of dungeons and hope you get people that match your needs/skills/goals for that queue level. Cryptic has consistently failed the community in receiving feedback in the RQ system. I know, I was part of the mod 9 alpha test and gave my feedback.

    Making TONG easier or CR easier for new or mid players is not the goal IN ITSELF. Making Hardcore dps-check and tank-check and heal-check dungeons for 19kers to solo on a bad hair day is not the goal IN ITSELF. Cryptic needs to take seriously that the complaints from the community in both directions shows a dissatisfaction with the queue system.

    Recommendations to change it have been given ad infinitum ad nauseam, not the least of which is to have scaleable dungeons using Tarokka cards (which I thought was brilliant). But instead, we get minimum TIL hardcore, which shows the tone-deafness and lack of awareness of devs to the whole situation. Break up the RQ system. New players will run the dungeons that they can easily do, collect the AD, buy better stuff, be more satisfied with progression and not hit a wall of 'git gud loser.' and Satisfied players means word of mouth awesomeness, more money in zen shop, and more real play time online. Middle game players will target the dungeons first they know they can complete, and challenge harder dungeons with friends or guild/alliance for the experience. This will let them hit the daily 100k AD goal, get better, climb the grind wall, and get the same results as the new players. And finally, end-game players will run whatever dungeon they want. If they want a challenge, run the hard ones.

    Also, here is another idea, as dungeons are unlocked and new, more difficult dungeons are added, make the previous dungeons give less AD than before. Thus, an end-game player who has unlocked all the dungeons and finished all the campaigns cannot run Malabog for 10k AD, but maybe a new player who only has Malabog unlocked from Sharandar campaign can? End games will fill the 100k limit and then look to alleviate the boredom, find ways to challenge themselves, use scaleable dungeons with Tarokka cards for more rewards.

    But, the current queue system and the cross-purposed goals have and will continue to create this rift in the player base. I believe we all are here to have fun, and if a game, a GAME, hinders my fun because other players are better or worse then me, there is something wrong with the GAME DESIGN. If game design forces me as a new or midgame player into content I know I am not ready for but must do for advancement or forces me as an endgame player to run the hardest content with new or middle game players who may or may not be ready for the content, the problem is NOT essentially the player. They want fun and gain satisfaction from the game through achievement. The problem is GAME DESIGN!

    For the love of God, once and for all, break up the queue system!

    Peace all! Thanks for reading my wall of text!
    LEVIATHAN--19.3k Metallic Dragonborn Guardian Fighter Swordmaster Loadouts

    Guild--And the Imaginary Friends




  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,489 Arc User
    I think we should reserve the pay-to-win designation for games where you can get stuff by paying that is not available otherwise.

    In Neverwinter you can get everything for free with some patience.. admittedly lots of patience :)
    So NW is pay-to-accelerate, which is a quite different kettle of fish from a true pay-to-win game.
  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    > @checkmatein3 said:
    > The comparison between VT and TONG with random queues and an argument against maxed players is an oversimplification. There are three competing trends in the game, that Cryptic has not yet figured out how to solve:
    >
    > 1. How to keep long term players, who generally spend time looking for every % of advantage and have stores of gold, AD, and experience, and can network in-game and out-of-game INTERESTED in content
    > 2. How to attract and retain new players through the beginning and mid-stages of player development.
    > 3. How to monetize elements for both groups so that the company can continue to make content (free stuff does not pay the bills or keep the game going...period.
    >
    > As Cryptic has made getting to level 70 easier (compare mod 6 needs for experience) with more items to boost a character, there is a general feeling that END-GAME begins when you reach 70. This is not true. I would say the middle -game begins when level 70 is reached. Like in chess, the first 10-15 moves have been done. At level 70, some of the campaigns are just becoming unlocked, some might be half way done, some almost completed. But the new player is now a middlegame player and must do the campaign grind in turn to get the experience (of the mob types and their mechanics) and the boons that (usually) help overall. This also takes time, unless you buy the monetized shortcut to finish the campaign with a token. Then you skip the experience needed to learn. Do this with 5-6 campaigns and you just left out a lot that can teach things about how mechanics work in a game, and smaller team work, without having dungeon level difficulty. As a player should progress, the dungeons at the end of the campaign (if unlocked at that time), would equal the level of difficulty required. This is where the linear pursuit by play has been shortened via monetization for players who want those dungeons right away.
    >
    > Additionally, the Queue system AS IS favors neither the new player, the middle-game player, nor the end-game player (which the OP called Elite). Each ranking of queue is based on the FAULTY assumption by Cryptic that TIL is equivalent to game advancement and ability. There are multiple anecdotes on both sides that show how TIL is a faulty measuring stick. As queue system group dungeons and skirmishes based on ranges of TIL, and only lets players queue for the easy AD rewards and seals when all those dungeons are unlocked for that particular queue, Cryptic has aggrevated the problem between new player/ middle game players who NEED the AD to advance in their builds (impatience and greed as well as wanting to advance like any normal player) and then who rush to queue for RAQ or maybe even REQ, and the end-game players who are just maintaining their characters, or maybe squeezing out the 1% increase, or want to run with some friends, or who are going to run something quick, because the game is repetitive. The issue is not the desire of the new, mid or endgame players. The issue is that they are forced into a queue system where the rewards are not the same for each.
    >
    > Simply put, RIQ, RAQ, REQ do not represent the needs of new, middle level and end-game players or their desires for the game. Randomness with the old dungeons was to queue for that dungeon and ONLY get other persons for that dungeon (e.g., VT in mod 2). Now, you queue for a group of dungeons and hope you get people that match your needs/skills/goals for that queue level. Cryptic has consistently failed the community in receiving feedback in the RQ system. I know, I was part of the mod 9 alpha test and gave my feedback.
    >
    > Making TONG easier or CR easier for new or mid players is not the goal IN ITSELF. Making Hardcore dps-check and tank-check and heal-check dungeons for 19kers to solo on a bad hair day is not the goal IN ITSELF. Cryptic needs to take seriously that the complaints from the community in both directions shows a dissatisfaction with the queue system.
    >
    > Recommendations to change it have been given ad infinitum ad nauseam, not the least of which is to have scaleable dungeons using Tarokka cards (which I thought was brilliant). But instead, we get minimum TIL hardcore, which shows the tone-deafness and lack of awareness of devs to the whole situation. Break up the RQ system. New players will run the dungeons that they can easily do, collect the AD, buy better stuff, be more satisfied with progression and not hit a wall of 'git gud loser.' and Satisfied players means word of mouth awesomeness, more money in zen shop, and more real play time online. Middle game players will target the dungeons first they know they can complete, and challenge harder dungeons with friends or guild/alliance for the experience. This will let them hit the daily 100k AD goal, get better, climb the grind wall, and get the same results as the new players. And finally, end-game players will run whatever dungeon they want. If they want a challenge, run the hard ones.
    >
    > Also, here is another idea, as dungeons are unlocked and new, more difficult dungeons are added, make the previous dungeons give less AD than before. Thus, an end-game player who has unlocked all the dungeons and finished all the campaigns cannot run Malabog for 10k AD, but maybe a new player who only has Malabog unlocked from Sharandar campaign can? End games will fill the 100k limit and then look to alleviate the boredom, find ways to challenge themselves, use scaleable dungeons with Tarokka cards for more rewards.
    >
    > But, the current queue system and the cross-purposed goals have and will continue to create this rift in the player base. I believe we all are here to have fun, and if a game, a GAME, hinders my fun because other players are better or worse then me, there is something wrong with the GAME DESIGN. If game design forces me as a new or midgame player into content I know I am not ready for but must do for advancement or forces me as an endgame player to run the hardest content with new or middle game players who may or may not be ready for the content, the problem is NOT essentially the player. They want fun and gain satisfaction from the game through achievement. The problem is GAME DESIGN!
    >
    > For the love of God, once and for all, break up the queue system!
    >
    > Peace all! Thanks for reading my wall of text!

    Well said, but don't expect any changes.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    You do not need to be elite to max out your AD and grind things in game. They have made it pretty easy to get max out ad daily with just minimum toons, just run RIQ, Leveling queue, then do some free chest dungeons, do your daily ndemo (20k ad right there!) and bam your there..

    Here is the secret to this game.. grind. grind some more, grind some more after that..

    I could start over today and have 2-3 r13 ranks toons in one years time and most of the campaigns done,, I wont, because that would be hell of a boring process, but OP fails to realize something.

    You are not what you are accusing others today, but if you stay in the game, you will be.. it just takes time, grinding and effort..

    thats it, nothing special.

    We all started out with nothing on our toons. We all started the same. Some of us just started out this way 3-4 years ago.. dont expect to catch up overnight.
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    edited December 2018

    extreme pay to win mmo's like neverwinner are the cancer, the developers only care about yours small wallet warriors crew, just waste of time, that's why low pop in game just give a look in any korean mmo and you will see how ease are to get end game ( i got BiS playing by 1 month in Tera ) and aways anyone ask if my Lancer wanna rush a dg

    p.p neverwinner nevermore

    What? Neverwinter is not Pay-to-win, not even close. It's Pay-to-not-grind-as-much, nothing more. There is nothing in the entire game you cannot acquired for free, it just takes extreme patience and a lot of playtime to grind out the in-game currency. Only people that don't really understand Neverwinter (regardless of how long you've been playing...) can possible assign a P2W label.
  • mrvincent1959mrvincent1959 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
    To the thread creator:

    Without that carrot tied to a stick there is no reason to play. Look to the end-game players and admire them for all the hard work they put in, and use that as your inspiration to achieve greatness for yourself.
    twitch.tv/kaligold
  • aganwayaganway Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    I used to feel this way much more when I was battling my way up a couple of years ago and trying to do PVP. I could not help noticing groups of players who had all mythic artifacts at the time maxed enchants everywhere, orange gear in all slots. And there I was just coming out of having blue gear (on that character) and thought how could I ever compete? On top of that many of them (most at that time tbh) were bullies who would 3-shot kill you and not let you come down from the campfire to cap, though sometimes the winning group would have the good graces to cap swap until the timer ran out so everyone could get their achievements. But many of them would not even let you do that. I did think at the time about how high stats can give you power over others and how easy it was to just buy it all and have it instantly as most of them had done, and how that power can easily corrupt.

    Now it is several years later, and while I have spent some cash here and there on the game, I do earn many things organically. I now have mythical artifacts and orange gear and am close to getting all my enchantments maxed in the coming year as well. Now those 'elites' seem much closer and I have come to the understanding that it will happen for everyone at some stage, sooner for some than others, but we will all get there if we want to.

    I do think more could be continued to be done to allow lower geared players to play content with no-one really all that higher in gear level and power (they lower IL in some maps to bring higher players more in line with that region so they already have the ability to seriously level all the players power in grouped content like random queues or dungeons), short dungeons are bad dungeons because the challenge and everyone being equal and playing an equal part in the party can be a very rewarding experience which should not be stripped away. There is also something to be said though for being able to run through a dungeon fast because of the grinding nature the game has turned into because it allows you to get your daily content done, we are expected to run a lot of daily content and sometimes you just need to hurry it up if you can.

    Last word on this is: It's all the cash these so-called 'elites' spend to have it all now and not have to wait, that keeps the game free for the rest of you. Never forget that.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,093 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    While I somewhat agree, ultimately its the developers only catering for the elite players that is the problem (and as others have said not all elite players are selfish players). As for the "get good" argument that does not apply for all the new content, no matter how much you understand the boss mechanics and what works best for parties, the bosses have been designed with absolutely built in time limits that cannot be bypassed with skill, it requires raw brute force or taking advantage of exploits and other cheesy tactics.

    Have you even played any of mod 15 at all? That module is aimed specifically at new players, nothing elite about it.
    only the hardcore mode on private queue is for end gamers ^^
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    I have no problem with "elite" players as long as our paths do not cross or I am affected by them. I refuse to do PVP so there is that. I have only had occasionally d-baggery from high level players in dungeon runs (I don't care if they run ahead, just kill HAMSTER as you do and don't let it mob the slowest) be generally they are fine. Skirmishes are a slug fest anyway so if they kill everything I am fine with that as long as I get the reward as well.
  • veywiil#8685 veywiil Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited December 2018

    It's the IL that makes people elite, its getting caught up with others IL that makes them elitist. Elite players are almost never an issue in NW, elitist players you could make a much easier argument as being an issue. It comes down to playstyle. Some people like to do things inclusively, nothing wrong with that. You can't expect everyone to want to train new players all the time. But when we do have 20+ level 20 guilds spread across a number of alliances, and many of those guilds do alliance runs, and complete content with multiple guilds in multiple timezones. Even Pugs are completing Cradle with a moderate success chance TBH. I wouldn't call that a problem of people being elite. I would label that as an entirely different problem, namely expectations going into an MMO.
    I'm a theorycrafter, that means I can answer fairly deep questions with scientific theory, mathematical proof, and some guessing. Ask me stuff!
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 582 Arc User
    Actually, *I'm* the problem....
  • hercules125hercules125 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    I don't agree with the premise in several posts here that getting end-game gear/IL is the sole premise for playing an MMO - it is in quite a few, but doesn't have to be that way. I can point to original Guild Wars and City of Heroes as examples of non-gear focused games that worked quite well.

    I would much rather have end game content that focuses on mechanics than primarily on gear ( i.e. the dps checks in Tong and CR).
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Why do I run endgame (CR/CODG), having no boons, 140k HP and low stats/gear ?
    Why do I farm an endgame area , if I do not have absolved Sharandar?
    Why do I run codg, when I fail in CN , due to my missing knowledge about buffs and debuffs ?
    I can´t understand this thread tbh.

    You need the boons (HP/stats) and you need some gear.
    To achieve this you have to absolve the campaigns (play the game) and buy some gear, wich is pretty easy in mod 15 compared to older mods. Doing so I can run any content in this game as a buffer.
    If you don´t want to play the game you can pay for the boons. They can be bought up to Chult ->8.4 mio AD...
    I never did so, I build Signets of Patronage or spend my AD to buy Completion tokens and sold them to the "lazy ones".

    You can buy blue +1 gear in AH for 10k AD for your companion, blue IL 510 neck = near BIS and only 1 slot to fill !

    My powerbuffer DC runs:
    https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Cincture_of_Atropal_Essence =1700 AD
    alternatives are:
    https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Beaded_Sash =1 mio AD (+350 power)
    Same counts for neck 1400 vs 1750 power = 1600 AD vs 1.5 mio AD
    You could grind Gravestriker Rings +4 and +5, if you want to spend the time, if not you are maybe not willing to optimize your gear and can´t blame others for being unprepared.
    Alternatives are cheap +1 rings and the expensive version Bronzewood+1
    Difference: blue+1-> 2543power (single target) vs. IL 570-> 3673power (single target) vs Gravestriker+5-> 3543power (most of the time).
    Exalted primal weapon is for free, you can trade them between alts, easy to refine them that way.
    No need to spend 1.5 mio to 3.5 mio AD only to have BIS.
    10338 power vs 8694, difference 1644 power, not worth spending 3.5 mio AD imo.


    So all I have to ask myself in mod 15 is:
    1. Do I have my boons? check
    2. Do i have a guild? check
    3. Do I run a debuff aritfact, a debuff companion (green is sufficient) and weapon enchant? check
    4. Do I run the right build and setup? check
    5. gear is needed but cheap to buy, you will be competetive - if you want to spend some time in this game farm it for free.

    If it´s all about " I play a F2P mmo-RPG but I am to lazy to do the needed grind and I am not willing to spend 5 min to watch a -how to build a class-video ",
    I have to ask myself: "Is a F2P mmo the best way to play, missing the time to grind, or should I stick with something else?"
    Alternative: I spend tons of Zen/cash to be competetive, nothing I would recommend, since the ammounts are -> crazy*.
    You could play 10 games with a monthly fee instead.

    *you have to pay that ton of Zen every mod !
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User

    To clarify for those that said I needed to put in work...I do. In fact I've come up with builds that work in dungeons that most people think are impossible. I'm not an elite player, yet I am able to pull the rabbit out of the hat and amaze people on how I can do something. So I do work at it.
    I was doing the general area of chult when people said I wasn't ready for it. Figured out my own way. The challenge for me is can I do that. Can I play in zones that people say your not ready for and still do well on my own.

    Based on this, I'd have to say you are an elite player.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    If there's a simple opportunity to bridge some of the gap between "elite" (really?) and disadvantaged players, it's probably in a more streamlined explanation of game mechanics that's made available to players within the game itself. Much of this information does exist somewhere within the game, but it's not nearly as user-friendly as it could be.

    End-game dungeons appear to be balanced around players who have some understanding of how things work, and players who have almost no understanding of mechanics will fail utterly. Players who go in expecting a fair experience without having done their homework, as it were, are going to feel frustrated and defeated.

    On the other hand, some players will not pay attention to anything regardless of how many tips are provided. Leading the horse to water and all that.

    Elitism isn't the issue; it's a lack of education. Players own a good portion of the onus, and it's natural that a gap will exist between players who actively learn the game and seek to maximize their performance and those who do not, but it's also true that the developers have left a lot of traps for new players unattended. Too many non-viable build possibilities, a sea of outdated equipment and quests (e.g. in alliance, at least one person every other day has to ask whether or not they should farm motes for the EE weapons), and completely counter-intuitive challenges (e.g. who would ever have guessed that high quality results while crafting would be a bad thing?) are much more the issue than any strawman elitist.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    Elitism isn't the issue; it's a lack of education.

    Education, and much bigger guns.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    vorphied said:

    Elitism isn't the issue; it's a lack of education.

    Education, and much bigger guns.
    The guns are available when you know where to find them. A gear gap is nothing that time and effort won't fix. Even throwing money at the issue does nothing more than accelerate the process since some of the best equipment is not available through Zen alone.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    The core problem never was gear, it´s cheap and easy to get imo.
    I started to read through a CW-guide to get access to a mof-buffer setup, nothing I can learn ingame from anyone... it´s homework on my invoking char.
    CW looks far more challenging to keep up debuffs -> chillstacks-smolder-rimfire-Ray of enf... mastery ...headache by even learning one loadout.
    My warlock is sooo much easier to understand
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    The core problem never was gear, it´s cheap and easy to get imo.
    I started to read through a CW-guide to get access to a mof-buffer setup, nothing I can learn ingame from anyone... it´s homework on my invoking char.
    CW looks far more challenging to keep up debuffs -> chillstacks-smolder-rimfire-Ray of enf... mastery ...headache by even learning one loadout.
    My warlock is sooo much easier to understand

    But... but... but... Wizards are supposed to LIKE studying o.O
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    If you think elitism in PVE is bad, it's twice as bad in pvp. And heaven forfend if you dare to kill the top players, hate spam tells, ganking, letting the other team kill you while they sit and corpse jump their own team-mate afterwards... I've seen it all.

    Far too much ego invested along with all that zen.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • peregr1nusperegr1nus Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    What a funny thread, i like how the thread creator just makes % of player population out of thin air to justify his qq instead of improving like everyone else.
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    I don't know if Elite players are to blame , but what i do know is that the devs put everything behind huge time walls that force you to spend money on inferior and badly designed content. It's Cryptics/Pwe strategy and in my view ,it's not working very well. Low playerbase, compared to other mmo's, and a falling stock price are all very good indications of dwindling profits.If it wasn't for the, AD&D/ Star Trek and so on, popular themes they would have gone bankrupt a long time ago. That's the real problem....very bad game market strategy/design and it seems that although they are trying to make things easier ,so as to attract new players, they also keep making content that is unfun. The fact that in the process they make things worse by changing content, see crafting system,in ways that put even more time walls, doesn't help either.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • aganwayaganway Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited December 2018

    I have been playing about 6 months and I feel like the developers kick me in the head and throw a roadblock in my path every time I make some progress.

    Soon after level 70, I was invited to a "pro" guild. 8000 power 8000 defense for boons. Movement too. That is crazy. Do all of my other boons combined even approach that?

    All they do is run dungeons, sell things they bought from behind the paywall and then throw the astral back into the zen market while seeking "allies" so they can fill allies warehouses with the stuff they farm to make explorer's cases.

    Then you have to deal with the art of "being pro". Basically, they have decided what a player should do to play the game and deviations are not appreciated. They are always right and if you prove them wrong they will be twisting the developers arm to make them right again.

    When the devs make new content to attract newbs, its like a joke. This is no game for newbs. I quit my pro alliance. I hated it there. I want to explore the game and figure things out, not be carried through EASY dungeons by people who feel like they are doing me a favor. Their chars are all built up and all they want to do is easy stuff where they can kill everything before I even get there.

    The problem is, without those boons, I'm like a newb again. Even newb zones are challenging for my 10k item level toons. Where is it that newbs are supposed to go?

    Is there a chance in hell a newb could build up a new guild in the next century? It seems to me, in order to do the newb zones campaigns with reasonable efficiency you need the pro boons?

    I was in shock when a friend outside the guild with 14k item level, including gold mounts, told me they had guild hall 3, no artisan, and no generalist. I was looking for a place to go. I did a few dungeons and hunts with this friend once and had the feeling they weren't much help despite being way higher item level than I was. It was the guild boons...

    So, basically, the only way you can be successful here and stand a chance of reaching EG content in this game is to make yourself a subject of some pro that thinks they are God's gift to you.

    I would like a guild with only a few people. The fewer people the better. I don't want to see people I barely know. I don't want to be told what to do. I want a peaceful guild environment. How can I get that in this game and how can I be successful in this game without a guild hall that would take ?years? to build?

    Yea, some people try and force their own stuff onto others and tell them it's the only way to play, it's the same for other games too. You just have to be strong and ignore them and play it your own way, it's your game, your time, your money, your experience in the end. On guilds, there are loads of good guilds to join and be part of, and they are so varied you will be able to find one which fits your expectations and playstyle. I run my own guild, I started at hall lvl 1 and am up to being 4, I now have a handful of support structures to upgrade to lvl 2 before I am ready to upgrade the hall to lvl 5 finally and build one boon structure. I pretty-much do everything on my own with a tiny bit of help from my alliance here and there. It is a very long slog when you don't have a lot of people but it can be done over time. You're always welcome to join, look for 'Secret Service' or Marquovis@aganway ingame but whatever guild you find I'm sure it will be a great match for you in the end. It just takes trial and error.
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