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Overdue? Improve Mastercraft (Common) tool chance 8-10% | Revealed...
strathkin
Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
I mean it be nice to at last offer an EVENT.
Mastercraft I is purely crazy at 20% chance or with Mythic Gond only increases this to 35%; for upgrading resources within the profession. Not to mention the final task to create the Legendary item is also 20% - with 3 Mithral tools and the Mastercraft (Common) tool that provides 0% - I mean should that even be considered a tool?
I mean once you get Mastercraft II - V it's not quite so bad; with all Mithral Tools & the Mithral Mastercraft item's, then you'll see 60%-75% - though it's failures aren't Nice. Regardless once you've gotten over the Mastercraft II hurdle, it's honestly not quite so bad, regardless if your upgrading the Profession, or simply upgrading the odd Resources every now and then..
It be nice for an event that increased Mastercraft II Chance however by 15-20% at least, Mastercraft III by 10-15%, Mastercarft IV by 5-10%, Mastercraft V by 2.5-5%.
I can only imagine at some point they will introduce Mastercraft VI, VII, VIII, or VIX at some point.
Not sure I like the idea of continuous upgrading of professions. I think I'd rather see more focus on improving the recipe's in all Tier's from Mastercraft I thru V more...
Thoughts?
Mastercraft I is purely crazy at 20% chance or with Mythic Gond only increases this to 35%; for upgrading resources within the profession. Not to mention the final task to create the Legendary item is also 20% - with 3 Mithral tools and the Mastercraft (Common) tool that provides 0% - I mean should that even be considered a tool?
I mean once you get Mastercraft II - V it's not quite so bad; with all Mithral Tools & the Mithral Mastercraft item's, then you'll see 60%-75% - though it's failures aren't Nice. Regardless once you've gotten over the Mastercraft II hurdle, it's honestly not quite so bad, regardless if your upgrading the Profession, or simply upgrading the odd Resources every now and then..
It be nice for an event that increased Mastercraft II Chance however by 15-20% at least, Mastercraft III by 10-15%, Mastercarft IV by 5-10%, Mastercraft V by 2.5-5%.
I can only imagine at some point they will introduce Mastercraft VI, VII, VIII, or VIX at some point.
Not sure I like the idea of continuous upgrading of professions. I think I'd rather see more focus on improving the recipe's in all Tier's from Mastercraft I thru V more...
Thoughts?
Post edited by strathkin on
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Prices would surely drop a little bit, but you'd also have more using, what they worked hard to earn. Right now, 95% just farm resources to sell them, even if they have Mastercraft II &/or III completed. While a few are willing to pay 2-5m for a single piece of Mastercraft gear, the vast majority or 70% of the player base will not. Still there our a few 'rich dragon' out there who will and as long as there is enough buyers then the market likely will be sustained.
Still I'd rather see more encouraged to overcoming Mastercraft II or more encouraged to try -- yet that's solely my opinion.
I mean I'm perfectly fine simply saving my guild marks to collect resources for others; you can often make as much selling resources as those who sell the crafted items.
Realize those who want to craft have to decide between not only farming the resource and buying the maps; yet they also have to upgrade the resources to the 2nd or 3rd tier most often; which limit's the amount's of resources they can farm in the first place. Not to mention many don't like spending time collecting 100's of maps they may have collected; if you have 50 map's it's not too bad, yet get much over >150 gathering resources take's a significant time. I mean you can spend most of your entire Thursday & Friday Night and most of the entire weekend. So while it's not perfect it at least give various people the opportunity to decide do they want to use guild marks for mapping & collecting resources; or saving their diamonds to buy them and use the guild marks for then upgrading them at Temporary Merchants.
Many even with Mastercraft completed don't like the aspect of farming maps, so they'd rather use guild marks to upgrade what others gather. So at least from that perspective there is a bit of balance to it all; and everybody can get a little of something.
It's just an ugly process of overcoming the Mastercraft II hurdle of a very poor 20% upgrade chance.
Though I admit Mastercraft III - V certainly improves things significantly with the Mastercraft (Epic) tool giving the standard 40%.
Still the failures can be a costly waste of resources - which is why just getting over the Mastercraft II hurdle is huge.
Mastercraft II keep in mind is only a 20% success chance or 35% chance with Mythic Gond. The both if you want to upgrade a resource within the profession or the actually upgrade change for obtaining the Legendary Item to Complete Mastercraft II.
Still I wish they'd improved MCI chances by 15-25%, MCIII by 10-20%, MCIV by 5-15% and MCV by 0-10% with either an event as I originally identified; still I suspect many are not going to like that as they prefer it being less open. I mean I'd even settle if they gave the Mastercraft (Common) Tool/Asset at least the Typical (8%) quality; given they actually describe it as being used for more *advanced* task I'd even argue it should be given (10%) quality chance.
I mean why giving us a Mastercraft *Advanced* Common Tool and give it 0% Quality?
Is that even a Tool / Asset by the Dictionary definition? I think not but I'm sure there will many who will strongly resist the idea of the Mastercraft I (Common) Tool/Asset being give the current (8%) quality other Common Assets enjoy. Thought I'm sure some will be perfectly fine with how it is now...
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y ) is the probability the Number of attempts will result in a successful result.
▪ x is the probably 20% for Mastercraft II represented by a 0.20 value for x.
▪ y is the number of runs or attempts.
1 - ( ( 1 - 0.20 ) ^ 5 ) = 67.232 | or in 5 attempts (at 20% chance) you do have a success chance of 2/3rds.
1 - ( ( 1 - 0.20 ) ^ 6 ) = 73.785 | or in 6 attempts you have a 73.78% chance
1 - ( ( 1 - 0.20 ) ^ 7 ) = 79.028 | or in 7 attempts still a 79% chance of success or 21% chance of failure.
Yet also realize every failure requires you keep recreating certain Mastercraft Resources either in the Profession itself; or by using the Temporary Guild Merchants spending several 1000's more in guild marks to upgrade the first tier resources. Some require one or two additional updates combining several lower level Mastercraft resources. You'll also require more professions than just one like all at least advance to Mastercraft I before you should consider Upgrading to Mastercraft II. Because without all professions at the first tier you may no be able to even purchase the option to upgrade lower level resources in one profession for items required in another.
So there is not only a lot of planning but considerations to factor in - aside from the low 20% success probability. Now many will tell you don't consider Mastercraft II until you at least have a Mythic Gond Artifact; as that will at least extend the chance out to 35%. This is because it replaces one of the Mithral (40%) Tools/Assets with the Mythic Gond Tool (55%) granting the extra 15% chance.
My really ONLY concern with how Cryptic has most of this process out; is the Mastercraft (Common) tool providing (0%) quality chance. I say that cause every other Common (Worn) Tool you buy from the Market in PE from the Professional Vendor; those items she sells provide 8% and are described as a Tools of Common Quality.
Yet when you complete Mastercraft I you require being a Legendary Professional yet the Common Quality Mastercraft Tool/Asset they provide is described of being used for *advanced* crafting tasks. So I've always been greatly concerned a even more specialized (Common) quality tool instead provides 0% instead of the typical Common Quality Bonus of 8%.
Still I think part of the reasoning is... because of the failures many resources are in higher demand as some try to upgrade. It's kind of a double edge sword though, as gear is often so very expensive for many items, most don't part with the resources for cheap. Still if there were more crafter's the demand would be high.
Perhaps in another year things will change or evolve but we'll have to wait...
You have both SH NPC with 100% success and now the Port what_it's_name NPC that can provide the tools with the trade there.
MW exists for many years now, the Gond artifact is even prior to that, it's well known item to get to do MW, so why we are even talking abbot 20%?
The only reason MW is profitable at it's peek times is because it has entry cost. If everyone can unlock it cheaply, everyone will just do that and not buy the MW finished products..
Still your point about if everyone had it unlocked no one would buy the items... I think they would but you also wouldn't see 2-5 million diamonds being asked for a single piece of gear. They may be getting sold for 250k - 1m Diamonds, but I mean even 500k to a Million Diamonds is A LOT of diamonds.
250,000 diamonds is $5.00 worth of diamonds | purchased on the AD:ZEN exchange or 500 ZEN.
-
1,000,000 diamonds is $20.00 worth of diamonds
5,000,000 diamonds is $100.00 worth of diamonds
Now the later two is a lot to ask for a single item or piece of gear. I think some people asking 5m for Bronzewood items or $100.00 is a little bit crazy. But perhaps that just me... :*
So? I would say a little bit easier than it cost to unlock it at the start?
5 what? Do you mean $5? Then no it's not, you can't legally convert AD to $ so your trillions of AD do not have $ worth (Unless you go illegally and then it's whatever the buyers offer you there. Value is set not by what you paid, but by what others are willing to pay for an item).
On the other hand you can say it's worth your time, which you could have done other things with... But that wont exactly work as you are playing MMO and its purpose it's to waste your time.
5m is a market price, don't buy and it will go down, or at 5mil, if there was profit, more would have made those and the price again would have gone down.
There is equilibrium point, that fits the current supply and demand.
You may not like it, you may not have the AD, but someone is buying, and someone is crafting. You think they are making too much profit, you can unlock too and profit. Now cheaper than ever.
As an advice, to do MW correctly (and to profit) you need to understand exactly what goes where and how to get what, It's a spreadsheet game, missing the NPCs and all the options shows you didn't made the homework needed. And more so, while the unlock is not cheap, the unlock is not the issue, but competitiveness and other issues. I'll advice you to make that spreadsheet, assume you have unlocked everything and calculate the craft cost of those items on the AH, include in the cost the correct failure percentage. You may find something interesting.
I'm not saying that MW is ok or not ok, but the suggestion of timely events is a bad one, multiple issues from making the unlock non-profitable, to creating the same thing as old double RP, which created a mess of waiting and price peaks and lows. You also miss the most important point, that MW is only very profitable for a very short time, after that its always a decline until next time MW is updated.
I mean I'm comfortable with it remaining as is - yet think it be nice if a few more than just the Elite Dragon's could at least get into Mastercraft II or III; sure it still take them a lot longer to progress to Mastercraft V. I admit people charging 2 million to 5 million for a single piece of gear is a bit pricey - yet IF people are willing to pay that - I can't blame them either for doing so!
I mean I'm perfectly fine with how it's all working right now, I have Mastercraft in progress on several characters, yet still think it be nice to improve at least Mastercraft II final upgrade chances.
Mastercraft III-V aren't that bad with the final task being 60%, or with Mythic Gond 75%, least it's a far greater success chance than failure unlike Mastercraft II. But all the failure's are still very costly when they do occur! Sure I also accept that the failures also make the resources in higher demand, but the same could also be true if we had a few more crafters, sure the prices of items may drop a little as more produce them...
I just remember when 500k - 1000k for a single item was considered expensive, the last year were seeing single Bronzewood items costing as much as some Legendary Mounts. So I just think that's a bit crazy.
And by 250,000 Diamonds being 5.00 if you wanted to buy them at 500:1 that's the ZEN cost to buy them.
There in lies the PROBLEM: consider that a Mastercraft Tool provides 0% upgrade chance?
▪ A Worn Hammer (8%)
▪ A Worn Crucible (8%)
▪ A Worn Shears (8%)
▪ A Worn Anvil (8%)
▪ A Worn Awl (8%)
▪ A Worn Mortar (8%)
▪ A Worn Mallet (8%)
▪ A Worn Chisel (8%)
▪ A Worn Jeweler's Loupe (8%)
▪ A Worn Bellows (8%)
▪ A Worn File (8%)
▪ A Worn Grindstone (8%)
▪ A Worn Needle (8%)
▪ A Worn Philosopher's Stone (8%)
▪ A Worn Knife (8%)
▪ A Worn Tongs (8%)
▪ A Worn Bezel Pusher (8%)
Mastercraft III-V aren't horrible by any means with the final task being 60%, or with Mythic Gond 75%, least it's a far greater success chance than failure unlike Mastercraft II. Still my point is Mastercraft II should be given at least a slight boost if nothing else just so it's Common Tool also provide at least 8% if not 10% given it's identified as a more *advanced* form of common tool used by Master Craftsman. Still even doing that you only see the default Mastercraft II Quality Change increase from 20% up to 30%; still less than half that of Mastercraft III-V.
@nitocris83
If it worth it, then it worth it, if not then not. There is no issue of unlock percent at that choice, only economic choice you need to make.
So why are all Common Tools given 8% yet a Mastercraft Tool (even if Common) given 0% chance; I mean it's a Mastercraft Tool, it should be given 10%, or slightly more than just a common worn tool.
I mean if they did that we'd see Mastercraft II at least expand to 28%, even if only 8% upgrade chance; but it wouldn't improve the Mastercraft III-V chances at all any higher than they are now.
Hopefully as this news gets out, more might also star to ask the question of why?
Perhaps you missed the part why I said 28% though... not 20%!
Cause a Common Worn Hammer provides 8% upgrade chance, yet a Common Mastercraft tool provides 0%? So today I asked DEVs why isn't a Mastercraft Tool (common quality) not also given 8% or even 10% as it is a more specialized tool.
It be NICE if Mastercraft I were expanded to at least 28-30% or half of Mastercraft II-V without a Gond Tool.
And existing mastercrafters don't want it cheaper.
As others have pointed out, the cost of unlocking mastercraft has gone down. They haven't changed the odds, but they introduced other mechanics that reduce the hurdle for participating (at least in catchup).
Just a difference of opinions, is all. I agree that mastercrafting finally is approaching a decent state. Making it more accessible would needlessly devalue existing investments, and risk making the whole system not worth pursuing.
from what I have seen, the percentage at the bottom of the crafting page is there for looks only. with a 100% chance you will still fail the same amount of times.it is specifically designed to cost billions of ad so not many ppl will do it. I will bet my entire account that if you did masterwork crafting on five different toons, and keep track of evry success and fail, you will see a pattern emerge. and btw, dont respond negatively to this post until u have done just that.
I would almost consider agreeing with your other statement you made, that Mastercraft is now approaching a decent state--yet would only agree after they gave the common Mastercraft Tool it's proper 8%.
I don't think increasing the common Mastercraft tools to 8% at would devalue anything! Mastercraft has been out almost 3 years since first introduced; and even at 28% chance is still extremely low odd's for those without a Mythic Gond tool. It would still be less than half that of Mastercraft III - V upgrade chances, and wouldn't do anything to improving those chances any further.
Even if we had a few more people with Mastercraft II, still it's likely only a few would push thru upgrading to Mastercraft III, or too far beyond that - if they thought Mastercraft III was expensive higher tiers are more challenging.
Yet I think you 'phrased' it in terms of a question, rather than a statement to imply it was a fact. The Quality of items does NOT change based on where they are being slotted in the normal 1-3 slot's; even if their is a 4th slot added because it requires a specific tool in that case.
Example:
Even in Artificing if I craft a Wootz Khanjar (25) level task, it does have 4 slotted tools rather than the normal 3. Yet just like Mastercraft it requires the Primary tool to be the MAIN item used by Artificing in this case a Mallet. While their are 2 other tools this profession can make use of being a Crucible or File. If I slot a Worn Mallet to the 25 crafting task of Wootz Khanjar the Warn Mallet still shows 8% quality boost in the first primary slot of the 4. If I use an Mithral Mallet to the first Primary tool it also provide 40% as it always does. If I instead move both to the 2-4th slots they still always provide 8% or 40% depending if I'm using Common at 8%, Iron at 16%, Steel at 24%, and Mithral at 40%.
Also Common tools in Professional ASSETS also always clearly shown as 8%, whereas the Mastercraft (Common) tools show 0% in Professional Resources. That should NOT change regardless of what slot you use them in.
So I hope they will give Mastercraft II it's well deserved 8% if not 10%.
You keep talking about the white asset that gives 0% on the MW 2. I don't understand why do you want to change that, since it's the main goal of the quest? Making you creating a big item with one tool at 0%, proves you strong enough to continue in the MW way and the Artisan offers you an epic MW tool for that.
The whole topic is about the 20% and the white asset. For the 1st one, you're wrong as it's 35%, and for the second one, it's the heart of the MW questline, you can't remove that, it has become easy enough to get to MW 3 now. MW 4 is something else, and MW 5 even more as you can't get help from others, but MW 2 is cheap now
▪ All common tools provide 8% so there no reason why the Common Mastercraft tool shouldn't either.
I mean that one change won't make things any easier from Mastercraft III-V as the Common (Mastercraft) Tool isn't even used, cause once you achieve Mastercraft II you are then provided a Mastercraft Tool which is Mithral / Epic Quality. Realize Mastercraft II has been out almost 2.5 years, so it's clearly time they gave it the Deserved 28%-30% success chance. I mean that's still half than that of Mastercraft III-V.
- White assets for standard professions give 8%, because they are assets "for the poors" (well epic assets don't cost a lot, but you get the idea).
- White tool for MasterCraft is the test the Artisans proposes you to see if you're strong enough to create some fancy items even with that disadvantage (aka 1 tool slot less). If you are, then you proved yourself to be able to go along the MW way, and you get the epic asset as a reward for that test.
Again, this MW 2 crafting test is the heart of the questline, and important for the roleplay thing of it. You should not compare standard white assets at 8% that are low quality ones, with a white MW asset that has for purpose to be at 0%.
♠ Using that LOGIC the working 'POOR' (Apprentice) deserve 8%, yet a Legendary Professional & Mastercrafter get 0%?
╘ The tools are different - yet it's the quality of item (Common) that all provide 8%.
╘ Just as all Iron / Uncommon tools provide 16%.
╘ Or in the case of Steel / Rare provides 24%.
╘ Finally Mithral / Epic provide 40% | note a Mithral (Epic) tool | Masterwork Doming Hammer both provide 40%.
So it seems your happy a more skilled Legendary Professional, whose also advanced to Mastercraft I, deserves tools of lessor quality, than even the common Apprentice (working poor) Professional would have. Good to know!
Gotcha! >:) Throw's hands up in the air... then walks away.
Still its surprising a single Bronzewood item on PC were recently listed for as much as Legendary Mounts were being sold.
I mean look at what some are dropping on Knox, the first went for 97 million Astral Diamonds; my GOD that was an Elite Dragon. If you used ZEN to buy your Diamonds that's almost $2,000.00 it would have cost if you had to buy them off the ZEN:AD Exchange. I think the last I saw of the 2nd Knox was up to 42m, but that was still with 1days and like 14h to go on the bidding, so I don't actually know if someone outbid him or what it finally ended up selling for.
Still we can clearly see there are several Elite Dragon's in this game.
I suspect many or most of them bidding on Legendary Knox Companion Pack are all Mastercraft V types too. Yet none of the changes I suggested would even help make Mastercraft III-V any easier either, and those failures are going to be even significantly more costly as people try to upgrade their crafting... So I don't know why people even crafter's have anything to fear if the common Mastercraft tools were improved from 0% up to 8-10%. :*
Didn't see your edit at first.
You're totally mixing up things here. Let's continue on the way of "the poor", as it simplifies the difference between standard white assets and MW white asset. You seem scandalized that poor tools have 8% and MW ones have 0%. But, again, these are different kind of items.
- Poor tools are here for people that begin the game and the professions, costs almost nothing, and as such give low % success, 8%.
- MW white tools are here to test you on a difficult task to prove yourself good enough to continue the Masterwork. Its own purpose is to be 0%, to occupy one tool slot and forcing you to go with 35% max (or more if you have adamantine tools).
So the poor tools deservve 8% for being low quality tool, yes.
Yet Mastercrafter deserves 0% for a white MW tool. Also yes.
These are not exclusive, because they are not the same kind of items, and don't have the same purpose.
I assume you are playing on PC? If so, PC prices are so high because the amount of AD these mastercrafters know is floating around out there. I have seen people with literally BILLIONS of astral diamonds. On console, its totally different. Most mastercrafters are making a 15k-30k profit on rings and maybe a 150k-200k profit on gear and weapons. Yes that profit adds up but they are allowed to charge these prices because of the time and effort that is put into the game by them. But honestly some lose money as they are just trying to compensate for previous losses.
Masterwork gear is a Commodity. You do not need to buy it to be BiS. You can unlock, and find gear that is a lot better. You buy it so that you don't have to grind through campaigns and dungeons to get good gear. There prices are high for multiple reasons. A lot of the resources are rarely dropped or are only found in certain dungeons. The crafting chance is low (which is your point). And the build up to the latest MW tier is expensive.
If the chances were raised then it would give people incentive to not grind and just work on professions and people would start working on their MW, and the prices would drop an insane amount and it would give people no reason to run the dungeons, hunts and skirmishes of the new mods.
Here they are the same Quality & Provide the same Quality Boost:
▪ Mithral Hammer (40%) - Quality Purple
▪ Mastercraft Doming Hammer (40%) Quality Purple
Even special event items follow established quality identified above:
▪ Cart | Siege Event Crafting (16%) - Quality Uncommon
▪ Iron Mallet | Artificing (16%) - Quality Uncommon
▪ Cart | Siege Event Crafting (24%) - Quality Rare
▪ Steel Mallet | Artificing (24%) - Quality Rare
▪ Large Cart | Siege Event Crafting (40%) - Quality Epic
▪ Mithral Mallet | Artificing (40%) - Quality Epic
Yet from day 1 of the game, all common tools always provided 8% quality, sold by Professional Vendor:
▪ A Worn Hammer (8%) - Common Quality
▪ A Worn Mallet (8%) - Common Quality
Etc...
When Mastercraft introduced it's common tools, they didn't provide the 'common' benefits:
▪ Artificier's Picatrix (0%) - Common Quality
╘ Despite them being a 'more' specialized tool used by Legendary Professionals / Mastercrafters.
╘ They should be given 10% for this reason - not the typical 8% the working POOR use as you exclaimed.
Now granted Mastercraft doesn't have Uncommon or Rare tools, they Align on Epic just not Common.
Still all Common tools have always provided 8%, Uncommon 16%, Rare 24%, Epic 40%, or Legendary 50% or Mythic 55% which only come from Gond--single item per character. So it's a perfectly fair and valid question to ask why doesn't Mastercraft Common tools not at least provide 8% if not 10%; given their even a more highly specialized tool used by Legendary Professionals & Master Crafters. They should have an extra +2% beyond the typical 8% for that reason alone and certainly not 0%.
I've fully explaining a clear LOGICAL basis of my argument. But some I guess don't want to see the obvious, likely because as someone had previously said, mastercrafters don't want it easier for more to join their ranks.
Now it's surely a great PRIZE but few can afford the high costs those are going for; but the vast majority bidding are likely all Mastercraft V professionals or the general consensus. I mean the first one sold for 97m Diamonds if you had to buy those Diamonds on the AD:ZEN exchange that be almost $1,997.00 equivalent of ZEN.