I'm not saying its impossible to make money, but the many exploits in early mods are a matter of record and the PC economy is only just recently gotten into dev hands that are interested in and capable of fixing it
There are many ways to play the game and many ways to make money, and if you find playing the AH is a fun mini-game more power to you
Hopefully, someday, the prices on PC will come more in line with what people are paying on console, and hopefully drop rates and loot tables can get less stingy and people that just want to play the game will be able to make enough money to accomplish their goals as well
That's why you need to focus on multiple investments and don't put all of your AD on one thing. But yes it's still precarious and require great deal of patience. Anyway it's bit of offtopic right there (problems with economy would require seperate thread. I can't of course say that everything is healthy and normal) and let's stick to masterwork.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
The bonuses should be like the previous one or and slightly higher like 2.5% per player than each player to get a personal buff that is against the stronghold logic.
Could you add a seperate page for each level of professions? Normal, mw1, mw2 etc. . . And/or a way to hide the 100s of recipes that never get used. I know you can search for certain ones but sometimes i just want to look through and see what mats I'm light on and there are just so many, it is a very long list for the few recipes we do actually use.
PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THESE NONE MASTERWORKER GUYS. It took me an age to get to where can make profit from masterwork and now I am (for the most part) the LAST thing masterworkers need is for you devs to cater to the casuals. That would take away from our achievement and make the market to where no one can make money which would ultimately kill the market and make a lot of people that spent a LOT of time and/or money very angry.
So to reiterate:- seperate pages/ hide unusefull recipes and NO TO MASTERWORKER CASUALS. Have a nice day.
At the surface it's not significantly different in terms of the number of recipes you need to complete. However, you only need to complete "Taking Credit" once per character, meaning on your second profession the number of recipes you'll need to complete will be significantly lower. Or, if you're pursuing volume V on multiple professions at once, you can turn in recipes from either. In addition, recipes you turn in will net you Chultan trade credit, which you can exchange for extra epic masterwork tools.
Sounds fair. But actually, just to clarify, "taking credits" popped up AFTER I took all other quests. Anyway, is it then possible to have new resources in preview bazar like residuum, manticore stuff etc? Farming them is a pain in the *** for only a testing purpose...
I will try to get the new materials available in the playtest store for the next preview build.
The bonuses should be like the previous one or and slightly higher like 2.5% per player than each player to get a personal buff that is against the stronghold logic.
I'll speak with the designer who handled the set bonuses for M13 and pass this feedback along.
Could you add a seperate page for each level of professions? Normal, mw1, mw2 etc. . . And/or a way to hide the 100s of recipes that never get used. I know you can search for certain ones but sometimes i just want to look through and see what mats I'm light on and there are just so many, it is a very long list for the few recipes we do actually use.
PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THESE NONE MASTERWORKER GUYS. It took me an age to get to where can make profit from masterwork and now I am (for the most part) the LAST thing masterworkers need is for you devs to cater to the casuals. That would take away from our achievement and make the market to where no one can make money which would ultimately kill the market and make a lot of people that spent a LOT of time and/or money very angry.
So to reiterate:- seperate pages/ hide unusefull recipes and NO TO MASTERWORKER CASUALS.
Have a nice day.
In regards to wanting a way to view masterwork recipes by recipe book, and just generally view recipes in a more organized format... we hear you! The current recipe interface is definitely being crushed under the weight, and improvements to that interface are definitely on our backlog. I can't promise anything for Module 13, but I will pass the feedback along to the UI team.
In regards to making masterwork into casual content—you don't have to fear that. The difficulty and investment it requires to access masterwork recipes is completely intentional. If we open the floodgates and let everyone make these items, the prices will go through the floor. We'd like those players who are seriously invested in crafting to have items of value they can actually sell to other players.
We plan to continue to add casual recipes when we have the opportunity, such as those added in the launch of Module 12. One thing to keep in mind for those of you who are not interested in seriously investing in masterwork professions, there's still plenty of opportunities for profit that are generated by the masterwork system even if you're not a crafter yourself. For instance, running dungeons for materials as well as farming them with explorer's charts. There will be new explorer's charts and dungeon drop materials in Module 13.
Masterwork crafters can't generate the sheer volume of materials they usually work with, so you have the opportunity to sell them materials. If you're less serious about economic gameplay, selling these highly liquid items is far more convenient. Naturally there's more opportunity for profit from crafting itself, but the investment and risk are far higher.
The only adjustments we may make in the future to masterwork professions to make them "easier" is to slightly reduce the difficulty of obtaining older recipe books as newer recipe books are added. We'll continue to be very careful about this, so as not to invalidate the work those of you who already have them have put in. An example of some of the ways we have already done this is through temporary structures which allow crafting certain materials with less risk. New recipes will be added to those temporary structures in Module 13, for instance.
good job guys now instead of prices/ ingredients being reduced for artifacts weapons and stuff for cws to match other classes . it goes up for all classes to match cw .. now it will be "fair" for all : D
Although situations like that certainly do happen, and I can understand how it becomes meme-worthy in most live game communities, most of the time we do try to avoid making adjustments where we bring everyone else "down" to the outliers. It's unavoidable in some cases, but in this case, I've gone ahead and made some adjustments to cleric, wizard and warlock recipes to make them cheaper.
These changes will accompany module 13 when it goes live, full patch notes below:
The following adjustments have been made to the recipe for the Brightsilver Symbol: * The amount of fartouched residuum needed has been reduced from 5 to 1. * The number of brightsilver ingots needed has been reduced from 5 to 3. * The number of rubellites needed has been increased from 1 to 3.
The following adjustments have been made to the recipe for Fartouched Pact Blade: * The amount of fartouched residuum needed has been reduced from 5 to 1. * The amount of manticore felt needed has been reduced from 2 to 1. * The requirement of 2 titansteel ingots has been adjusted to 2 brightsilver ingots.
The following adjustments have been made to the recipe for Fartouched Orb: * The amount of fartouched residuum needed has been reduced from 5 to 1. * The amount of scintillant glass needed has been reduced from 4 to 2.
In accordance with these changes, the number and type of items returned in the case of a failure for these recipes has been adjusted.
Admittedly, this is a bit late, as most of you will be focused on the new masterwork recipes by the time these changes go through, but I still wanted to make these adjustments. I apologize that we did not catch these disparities sooner.
The next preview build will have a huge number of changes to volume IV and V recipes that were in progress when the preview build was baselined (frozen for release on the preview shard.) I have triple checked to ensure that all classes should have very similar recipe costs for their weapons.
Please try your best so the new SH weapons have the same set bonus (perhaps even slightly better) the older versions do, it is the very reason people buy them, to be more powerful as a group (as in "There's strenght in unity"), deviating from that to personal buffa contradicts that.
krasensilverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 27Arc User
edited January 2018
how do we unlock new recipes? Got the tool with credits crafted orange thing for npc but cant give it to him the guy near salvage trader so cant unlock recipes. Is something wrong with last step of quests or am I missing something? prntscr.com/i0mm6c
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Please try your best so the new SH weapons have the same set bonus (perhaps even slightly better) the older versions do, it is the very reason people buy them, to be more powerful as a group (as in "There's strenght in unity"), deviating from that to personal buffa contradicts that.
That would also solve the problem of none of the new weapon sets being really suitable for support/buff characters. I mean, some of them are absolutely great for DPSers, and for solo play for any class, but from my perspective, as a pure support DC, it makes no sense for me to switch from my current Brightsilver (MW II) set to any of the new ones.
The current +2% bonus to everyone on the team far outperforms any of the set bonuses of the new weapons. So, please....give us something that would make it worthwhile to upgrade ... currently that's not the case.
I mentioned in the other forum too, but +1 here for the SH set bonus for the new tier. Even as SS CW, so def. not full support, I preferred that set over the Relic in every case where there was more than 1 DPS in the group and crafted it very early without any regret.
Well it's wonderful I just spent more than 5 million AD to get MW2 weapons on my CW, TR and OP just to learn that in few months they will be obsolete.
At least give us more RP when we destroy our old weapons for refinement points... I mean come on we get like 46k RP from legendary weapons and it takes 232k to reach lvl 60 again...
I feel so dumb now that I bought the CW weapons like a week ago. And now you're making them cheaper? I'd rather see them stay the same so it wouldn't hurt so badly to know I wasted millions...
Only positive thing I can see is my 2 other mains are TR and OP and not SW and DC.
This is actually weird. Masterworks set bonuses with the mechanich of storm king's set are amazing for dps, usefull for defensive support but pretty useless for mofs, dcs and buffers in general. But imho they look like REAL masterworks this time.
On the other end i can't not to agree with those saying these are too different from previous MW.
But with a wider look, making happy buffers would affect negatively the whole party. Other weapon sets are not so good for dps making the run of a dungeon longer, with few exceptions like tyrant weapons on avatar of orcus for ie, or in general fights that last for more then 150 seconds for a full buff.
I was also thinking for my mof and my dc that pioneer set would be great as buffers if it had an action point gain, but that's another story. Maybe @asterdahl would like to take a look on it.
Returning to MW i think a solution could be:
deal damage (NOT DOT) increase damage
heal, DOT increase heals, recovery, ap gain.
*After all, the more you cast stuff the more you buff, making the whole mechanic more dynamic [and fun imho] then just having the set. I say dots because buffers use it on almost every skill and it include feats and weapon enchantments, while dps classes have a wide choice of skills to start the combat with that doesn't apply dots.*
At the surface it's not significantly different in terms of the number of recipes you need to complete. However, you only need to complete "Taking Credit" once per character, meaning on your second profession the number of recipes you'll need to complete will be significantly lower. Or, if you're pursuing volume V on multiple professions at once, you can turn in recipes from either. In addition, recipes you turn in will net you Chultan trade credit, which you can exchange for extra epic masterwork tools.
Sounds fair. But actually, just to clarify, "taking credits" popped up AFTER I took all other quests. Anyway, is it then possible to have new resources in preview bazar like residuum, manticore stuff etc? Farming them is a pain in the *** for only a testing purpose...
I will try to get the new materials available in the playtest store for the next preview build.
The prices seem to be decently balanced (I assumed the prices for the explorer's cases drops as 10k AD, I don't have numbers for droprate distributions). I do have concerns about 2 items: 1) Lichstone The prices for the armor pieces are strongly dependant on the Lichstone price, I think a droprate that results into a price of ~200k AD would be ok. 400k-500k would probably be reasonable prices at mod-release. (I guess Lichstone will be needed for the Caster weapons, I couldn't unlock these recipes yet)
2) Soulfired Obsidian This is the item that kind of dictates the price for the melee weapons and makes them very expensive. I think it woul be reasonable to reduce the materials to craft "Obsidian Shard" from 3x Red Rouge to 1x Red Rouge. That would significantly lower the price of Soulfired Obsidian.
Guys, whining about the cost of masterworks is nonsense. They MUST be hard to achieve they are MASTERworks not COMMONworks.
@tiberiusrex#6660 buddy, really, you joined just 12 days ago and you pretend to be a mastercrafter? Come on... And those numbers are not even close to reality. You need to invest, that's true, but with 20 millions you can unlock all lvl III profession recipes, and it can be drastically reduced if you farm resources by your own. Lvl IV and V require about another 10 millions of stuff, but, again, that's relative, if you farm, the cost can be reduced to 0. Yes, 0, unless you speed up tasks with diamonds.
The point (and the beauty) of the system is that you need math, logistics and foresight to be a mastercrafter.
Guys, whining about the cost of masterworks is nonsense. They MUST be hard to achieve they are MASTERworks not COMMONworks.
The issue is that some weapons cost MUCH more than others. Eg, GWF set was like 1.8m at one point, while CW main hand ALONE was upwards of 4.5m.
Indeed, and I agreed already on this. And as far as I understood this is going to be addressed. But the cost of the single piece for some classes is another story mate.
Guys, whining about the cost of masterworks is nonsense. They MUST be hard to achieve they are MASTERworks not COMMONworks.
@tiberiusrex#6660 buddy, really, you joined just 12 days ago and you pretend to be a mastercrafter? Come on... And those numbers are not even close to reality. You need to invest, that's true, but with 20 millions you can unlock all lvl III profession recipes, and it can be drastically reduced if you farm resources by your own. Lvl IV and V require about another 10 millions of stuff, but, again, that's relative, if you farm, the cost can be reduced to 0. Yes, 0, unless you speed up tasks with diamonds.
The point (and the beauty) of the system is that you need math, logistics and foresight to be a mastercrafter.
We can't forgot our most valuable resource: time. We can farm items for free but we can sell them for 20 millions (-10%) so essentially we're still investing a lot. But this only defeats @tiberiusrex#6660 arguments: if you don't have AD for Masterwork (for example you just started) you can still heavily benefit from it! Farm resources and sell them. And as I said before you can earn your AD by using AH.. for the same reason exist Masterwork. You can take guesses and predict changes and trade various things like me or go for Masterwork like @lucislator (and he also needs to take some risk here and he needs to be able to predit how market changes. If he will buy resources and then market will take hit he will lost AD for example..if Masterwork would be available for everyone just still wouldn't profit from it AT ALL because you still need to understand how to use AH to your own benefit).
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
if Masterwork would be available for everyone just still wouldn't profit from it AT ALL because you still need to understand how to use AH to your own benefit).
Nobody is asking for Masterwork for everyone. We are asking for it to be fair - and it is for example unfair that making weapons for some classes is maybe three times more expensive than for other classes.
The new masterwork IV quests illustrate this very nicely - you have to turn in the weapons for the DC, CW and SW - and those are the three most expensive ones ti make.....this means that getting MW IV for one profession may cost you 10 million AD, while it is only a million or two for the others. Again. Not fair.
if Masterwork would be available for everyone just still wouldn't profit from it AT ALL because you still need to understand how to use AH to your own benefit).
Nobody is asking for Masterwork for everyone. We are asking for it to be fair - and it is for example unfair that making weapons for some classes is maybe three times more expensive than for other classes.
The new masterwork IV quests illustrate this very nicely - you have to turn in the weapons for the DC, CW and SW - and those are the three most expensive ones ti make.....this means that getting MW IV for one profession may cost you 10 million AD, while it is only a million or two for the others. Again. Not fair.
I was responding to something else (for someone who was telling that MW should be cheap so people can easily benefit from it..which is self contradictonary). I said in previous post that MW should be fair for every class. I've also noticed that weapon for DC/CW/SW were a lot more expensive than for other classes..whole reason why I've decided not to buy them this time.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
The bonuses should be like the previous one or and slightly higher like 2.5% per player than each player to get a personal buff that is against the stronghold logic.
I'll speak with the designer who handled the set bonuses for M13 and pass this feedback along.
Thank you. I hope the set bonus can be changed to something more team-oriented. It would make perfect thematic sense, actually - Masterwork as a whole is tied to guilds - it is not a solo-friendly activity, and it makes sense to have some of the best items you can create with Masterwork reflect that.
After all, as the description for the MW II set says: "This weapon is a testament to the strength of its wielder and the perseverance of their guild. It is a reminder that there is strength in unity."
This would also solve the issue I raised earlier - while the new weapon sets are great for DPSer or solo-play, none of them are really suitable for pure support characters - Speaking as an (almost) BiS DC, none of the new sets would help me do my job as a buffer/debuffer/support better. I would love to have a reason to upgrade from my current Brightsilver set, but currently I don't.
So, @asterdahl give us one set that is suitable for non-DPS characters and we will be happy. Please?
Hi, I myself am not a masterworker but I have a few comments....I like the idea of masterworking, but it’s seems as if the gear and weapons crafted should remain BIS for awhile.....when mod 11.5 (I think) dropped I couldn’t wait to get the new gear and take off the vivified set my CW was wearing....I helped a guild mate farm materials, (including many FBI runs and Haiti farms)....and in short order mod 12 came out and so did the new gear, which has a higher item level, better stats, small little helpful equip bonus’, and on top of that can be farmed by one toon and given to alts....when the MWII gear first came out I know people who traded a legendary pack (was going for 5.5-7 million) for the full set of gear, and even now I think the whole CW set goes for about 2 million AD total, and is not worth a fraction of that, why should the most recent MW gear set have the same item level (and no equip bonus for each piece) as stuff that drops like candy from T1 hunts just a half mod later....so please make the new masterwork stuff BIS (including item level) and stay BIS considering the amount of work to make (or buy)....
The bonuses should be like the previous one or and slightly higher like 2.5% per player than each player to get a personal buff that is against the stronghold logic.
I'll speak with the designer who handled the set bonuses for M13 and pass this feedback along.
Thank you. I hope the set bonus can be changed to something more team-oriented. It would make perfect thematic sense, actually - Masterwork as a whole is tied to guilds - it is not a solo-friendly activity, and it makes sense to have some of the best items you can create with Masterwork reflect that.
After all, as the description for the MW II set says: "This weapon is a testament to the strength of its wielder and the perseverance of their guild. It is a reminder that there is strength in unity."
This would also solve the issue I raised earlier - while the new weapon sets are great for DPSer or solo-play, none of them are really suitable for pure support characters - Speaking as an (almost) BiS DC, none of the new sets would help me do my job as a buffer/debuffer/support better. I would love to have a reason to upgrade from my current Brightsilver set, but currently I don't.
So, @asterdahl give us one set that is suitable for non-DPS characters and we will be happy. Please?
While it is true that these bonuses should be group oriented - punishing people for not running with other high level players will lead to elitism - and it already HAS happened. Not often, but I saw 3-4 people last week looking for 15k DPS with masterwork weapons. I'm past 16k and I can definitely beat pretty much every 15k DPS regardless of weapons, so when I PMed him to invite me and he/she responded "hell no you dont have masterwork weapons", it felt a bit... arrogant.
So my thinking is, give players something regardless of whether or not people have those sets. Eg, for every person that has MW, let's say +2% DPS or whatever, and for every person without it, +1% or whatever - something that won't make people exclude players who want the tyrant set or whatever.
Comments
There are many ways to play the game and many ways to make money, and if you find playing the AH is a fun mini-game more power to you
Hopefully, someday, the prices on PC will come more in line with what people are paying on console, and hopefully drop rates and loot tables can get less stingy and people that just want to play the game will be able to make enough money to accomplish their goals as well
PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THESE NONE MASTERWORKER GUYS. It took me an age to get to where can make profit from masterwork and now I am (for the most part) the LAST thing masterworkers need is for you devs to cater to the casuals. That would take away from our achievement and make the market to where no one can make money which would ultimately kill the market and make a lot of people that spent a LOT of time and/or money very angry.
So to reiterate:- seperate pages/ hide unusefull recipes and NO TO MASTERWORKER CASUALS.
Have a nice day.
In regards to making masterwork into casual content—you don't have to fear that. The difficulty and investment it requires to access masterwork recipes is completely intentional. If we open the floodgates and let everyone make these items, the prices will go through the floor. We'd like those players who are seriously invested in crafting to have items of value they can actually sell to other players.
We plan to continue to add casual recipes when we have the opportunity, such as those added in the launch of Module 12. One thing to keep in mind for those of you who are not interested in seriously investing in masterwork professions, there's still plenty of opportunities for profit that are generated by the masterwork system even if you're not a crafter yourself. For instance, running dungeons for materials as well as farming them with explorer's charts. There will be new explorer's charts and dungeon drop materials in Module 13.
Masterwork crafters can't generate the sheer volume of materials they usually work with, so you have the opportunity to sell them materials. If you're less serious about economic gameplay, selling these highly liquid items is far more convenient. Naturally there's more opportunity for profit from crafting itself, but the investment and risk are far higher.
The only adjustments we may make in the future to masterwork professions to make them "easier" is to slightly reduce the difficulty of obtaining older recipe books as newer recipe books are added. We'll continue to be very careful about this, so as not to invalidate the work those of you who already have them have put in. An example of some of the ways we have already done this is through temporary structures which allow crafting certain materials with less risk. New recipes will be added to those temporary structures in Module 13, for instance.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
These changes will accompany module 13 when it goes live, full patch notes below: Admittedly, this is a bit late, as most of you will be focused on the new masterwork recipes by the time these changes go through, but I still wanted to make these adjustments. I apologize that we did not catch these disparities sooner.
The next preview build will have a huge number of changes to volume IV and V recipes that were in progress when the preview build was baselined (frozen for release on the preview shard.) I have triple checked to ensure that all classes should have very similar recipe costs for their weapons.
Please try your best so the new SH weapons have the same set bonus (perhaps even slightly better) the older versions do, it is the very reason people buy them, to be more powerful as a group (as in "There's strenght in unity"), deviating from that to personal buffa contradicts that.
prntscr.com/i0mm6c
The current +2% bonus to everyone on the team far outperforms any of the set bonuses of the new weapons. So, please....give us something that would make it worthwhile to upgrade ... currently that's not the case.
At least give us more RP when we destroy our old weapons for refinement points... I mean come on we get like 46k RP from legendary weapons and it takes 232k to reach lvl 60 again...
I feel so dumb now that I bought the CW weapons like a week ago. And now you're making them cheaper? I'd rather see them stay the same so it wouldn't hurt so badly to know I wasted millions...
Only positive thing I can see is my 2 other mains are TR and OP and not SW and DC.
On the other end i can't not to agree with those saying these are too different from previous MW.
But with a wider look, making happy buffers would affect negatively the whole party. Other weapon sets are not so good for dps making the run of a dungeon longer, with few exceptions like tyrant weapons on avatar of orcus for ie, or in general fights that last for more then 150 seconds for a full buff.
I was also thinking for my mof and my dc that pioneer set would be great as buffers if it had an action point gain, but that's another story. Maybe @asterdahl would like to take a look on it.
Returning to MW i think a solution could be:
deal damage (NOT DOT) increase damage
heal, DOT increase heals, recovery, ap gain.
*After all, the more you cast stuff the more you buff, making the whole mechanic more dynamic [and fun imho] then just having the set. I say dots because buffers use it on almost every skill and it include feats and weapon enchantments, while dps classes have a wide choice of skills to start the combat with that doesn't apply dots.*
dodge/shield/run remain the same
Alchemy,
Jewelcrafting,
Mailsmithing,
Platesmithing,
Weaponsmithing.
The prices seem to be decently balanced (I assumed the prices for the explorer's cases drops as 10k AD, I don't have numbers for droprate distributions).
I do have concerns about 2 items:
1) Lichstone
The prices for the armor pieces are strongly dependant on the Lichstone price, I think a droprate that results into a price of ~200k AD would be ok.
400k-500k would probably be reasonable prices at mod-release.
(I guess Lichstone will be needed for the Caster weapons, I couldn't unlock these recipes yet)
2) Soulfired Obsidian
This is the item that kind of dictates the price for the melee weapons and makes them very expensive.
I think it woul be reasonable to reduce the materials to craft "Obsidian Shard" from
3x Red Rouge to 1x Red Rouge.
That would significantly lower the price of Soulfired Obsidian.
@tiberiusrex#6660 buddy, really, you joined just 12 days ago and you pretend to be a mastercrafter? Come on... And those numbers are not even close to reality. You need to invest, that's true, but with 20 millions you can unlock all lvl III profession recipes, and it can be drastically reduced if you farm resources by your own. Lvl IV and V require about another 10 millions of stuff, but, again, that's relative, if you farm, the cost can be reduced to 0. Yes, 0, unless you speed up tasks with diamonds.
The point (and the beauty) of the system is that you need math, logistics and foresight to be a mastercrafter.
+1000 to @liambradshaw#2102 NO TO CASUAL MASTERCRAFTERS
The new masterwork IV quests illustrate this very nicely - you have to turn in the weapons for the DC, CW and SW - and those are the three most expensive ones ti make.....this means that getting MW IV for one profession may cost you 10 million AD, while it is only a million or two for the others. Again. Not fair.
After all, as the description for the MW II set says: "This weapon is a testament to the strength of its wielder and the perseverance of their guild. It is a reminder that there is strength in unity."
This would also solve the issue I raised earlier - while the new weapon sets are great for DPSer or solo-play, none of them are really suitable for pure support characters - Speaking as an (almost) BiS DC, none of the new sets would help me do my job as a buffer/debuffer/support better. I would love to have a reason to upgrade from my current Brightsilver set, but currently I don't.
So, @asterdahl give us one set that is suitable for non-DPS characters and we will be happy. Please?
So my thinking is, give players something regardless of whether or not people have those sets. Eg, for every person that has MW, let's say +2% DPS or whatever, and for every person without it, +1% or whatever - something that won't make people exclude players who want the tyrant set or whatever.