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Ultimate enchanting stones are too rare.

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  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    I stopped running tong after 50 runs with 0 ultimate stones.
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I finally got my first stone after spending most of my playtime since 12B was released farming Tong.

    So, one stone every two weeks - it will only take me four years to get the stones I need, just for my main (and I have alts of every class).

    Who thought this drop rate was a good idea, and when will he be fired?

    This is the other issue. This is a pay for RNG schema meant to... slow progress between mods. I've been told this repeatedly.

    It's an invisible wall meant to artificially slow down progression so that the Cryptic team has time to produce more content and keep us busy while they do.

    We never asked for impedance to progress because we'd get bored. We simply want a means to progress in a timely manner without spending a fortune in game to "bet" on keys.

    I don't know what else to say. Most ALL players I talk to agree. Many have just thrown their hands up in disbelief that this continues to be the case.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • jrdiiorio#8134 jrdiiorio Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    I'm on PS4 so haven't had the chance yet for ues but beyond using crafted keys the extra legendary keys people must be using are almost the same price as a ues from the ah it seems especially if u start adding in the a mass scroll here and there for the runs. I don't agree with this horrible drop rate but wouldn't it be more efficient at this time to just buy the ues instead of scrolls/keys and farm something else to offset the cost?
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited November 2017

    I'm on PS4 so haven't had the chance yet for ues but beyond using crafted keys the extra legendary keys people must be using are almost the same price as a ues from the ah it seems especially if u start adding in the a mass scroll here and there for the runs. I don't agree with this horrible drop rate but wouldn't it be more efficient at this time to just buy the ues instead of scrolls/keys and farm something else to offset the cost?

    Someone *still* has to farm the UES by buying keys... This is the issue. It's easy for everyone to say "just buy them"... but buying them indicates someone has farmed them, which indicates someone purchased keys.

    While I understand the idea of trying to mitigate some of the cost, the issue is this is a money grab and an artificial impedance to progress. This is the primary discussion.

    It's less about "passing the buck" and more about "why is this costing bucks?".
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User

    I'm on PS4 so haven't had the chance yet for ues but beyond using crafted keys the extra legendary keys people must be using are almost the same price as a ues from the ah it seems especially if u start adding in the a mass scroll here and there for the runs. I don't agree with this horrible drop rate but wouldn't it be more efficient at this time to just buy the ues instead of scrolls/keys and farm something else to offset the cost?

    Legendary Dragon keys are 300 zen for 5 and scrolls are about 4k AD each I think. Unless my math is really bad, these 2 items cost far less than what the stones go for on the AH.

    You also get 2 keys from the campaign for 25 totems. I would suggest people start grinding those on PS4 and Xbox now and wait.
  • lipasgutomlipasgutom Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    I been play this almost 3 years now , i love the game but it seems that this mod is why greater complicated . Lag is greater than before , stone for upgrade is very rare get, and nothing they for us to make us happy after all this nerf deeply desapointed.
  • jrdiiorio#8134 jrdiiorio Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    > @oldbaldyone said:
    > I'm on PS4 so haven't had the chance yet for ues but beyond using crafted keys the extra legendary keys people must be using are almost the same price as a ues from the ah it seems especially if u start adding in the a mass scroll here and there for the runs. I don't agree with this horrible drop rate but wouldn't it be more efficient at this time to just buy the ues instead of scrolls/keys and farm something else to offset the cost?
    >
    > Legendary Dragon keys are 300 zen for 5 and scrolls are about 4k AD each I think. Unless my math is really bad, these 2 items cost far less than what the stones go for on the AH.
    >
    > You also get 2 keys from the campaign for 25 totems. I would suggest people start grinding those on PS4 and Xbox now and wait.

    At 250 per 5 legendary or 50 each. Based on averages seen at 50 runs per stone. 50 keys x 50zen is 2500 zen in keys. At PS4 current exchange rate of about 450 ad for 1 zen that is 1.125m ad. This excludes scrolls of course at 5k-6k each on PS4. Average 1 per run that's another 250k. What is pc going rate of ues stones? PS4 ah house prices are generally cheaper then pc
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User

    I'm on PS4 so haven't had the chance yet for ues but beyond using crafted keys the extra legendary keys people must be using are almost the same price as a ues from the ah it seems especially if u start adding in the a mass scroll here and there for the runs. I don't agree with this horrible drop rate but wouldn't it be more efficient at this time to just buy the ues instead of scrolls/keys and farm something else to offset the cost?

    Legendary Dragon keys are 300 zen for 5 and scrolls are about 4k AD each I think. Unless my math is really bad, these 2 items cost far less than what the stones go for on the AH.

    You also get 2 keys from the campaign for 25 totems. I would suggest people start grinding those on PS4 and Xbox now and wait.
    I think he means the cost of those keys when you consider how many runs (and how many keys in total it would take) to get one. I hit 50 with 0 drops, so actually AH is cheaper and less frustrating.
  • muratttimurattti Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 417 Arc User
    tong gear done all to time i can farm never drop me 1 :disappointed:
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    I called out a money grab scheme as soon as the nerf to bondings and the new ranks for enchantments and runestones came out. The droprate is confirming it, not to mention the fact that if you are an HR, TR or SW you're even more screwed. I have time to play an hour or so everyday, so I can get 1 run if I'm lucky. This translates into two enchant upgrades a year if I open both chests ... I won't bother with it. Nothing to do for until mod 13 comes out. I'll do the daily stuff for my guild, some hunts with friends or play other games.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User


    Someone *still* has to farm the UES by buying keys... This is the issue. It's easy for everyone to say "just buy them"... but buying them indicates someone has farmed them, which indicates someone purchased keys.

    Someone who tries to farm UES by buying keys is either just gambling or isn't too bright to think it is the most cost effective way to do it. With the sheer number of VIPs opening daily lockboxes, I'd imagine much of the drops are going to those lottery winners.


    While I understand the idea of trying to mitigate some of the cost, the issue is this is a money grab and an artificial impedance to progress. This is the primary discussion.

    I keep seeing people make the "progress" argument. At this point of the game (two weeks post 12b launch), to what end? People can already do 47 ToNGs in two days, presumably with R12s. People want BiS so they can do what? Do ToNG like the other 99% of the players do CN?

    I can see what will happen if all the top players are able to grind out BiS by mod 13. People will post videos of 10 minute speed runs of the mod 13 dungeon, while it is still in preview. Then complain about the game not being challenging enough.


  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    > @namelesshero347 said:
    > Someone *still* has to farm the UES by buying keys... This is the issue. It's easy for everyone to say "just buy them"... but buying them indicates someone has farmed them, which indicates someone purchased keys.
    >
    > Someone who tries to farm UES by buying keys is either just gambling or isn't too bright to think it is the most cost effective way to do it. With the sheer number of VIPs opening daily lockboxes, I'd imagine much of the drops are going to those lottery winners.
    > While I understand the idea of trying to mitigate some of the cost, the issue is this is a money grab and an artificial impedance to progress. This is the primary discussion.
    >
    > I keep seeing people make the "progress" argument. At this point of the game (two weeks post 12b launch), to what end? People can already do 47 ToNGs in two days, presumably with R12s. People want BiS so they can do what? Do ToNG like the other 99% of the players do CN?
    >
    > I can see what will happen if all the top players are able to grind out BiS by mod 13. People will post videos of 10 minute speed runs of the mod 13 dungeon, while it is still in preview. Then complain about the game not being challenging enough.

    I disagree entirely for all the reasons essentially everyone but you have posted here.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User




    I disagree entirely for all the reasons essentially everyone but you have posted here.

    Doesn't matter. Just like what this echo chamber is clamoring about. The devs will do what they want.
  • nemesis666#6862 nemesis666 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    i know u all will kill me now, but im fine with the rare drops. i like to run this dungeon, im in no hurry to up all ench to 14, and i sell every stone for easy profit.
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    The game has a pattern of making shiny new components rare/expensive and increasing supply over time. My guess is, once the people that will pay around 1m a pop for them have done so, we'll see more supply enter the game. (Moderators don't get any inside info, so it's just a guess based on history).
    Caritas Guild Founder (Greycloak Alliance)

    Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User

    i know u all will kill me now, but im fine with the rare drops. i like to run this dungeon, im in no hurry to up all ench to 14, and i sell every stone for easy profit.

    There lies the problem. I've run the dungeon over 50 times and got 0 stones. To me, personally, that's not rare, it's nonexistent.
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    i know u all will kill me now, but im fine with the rare drops. i like to run this dungeon, im in no hurry to up all ench to 14, and i sell every stone for easy profit.

    There lies the problem. I've run the dungeon over 50 times and got 0 stones. To me, personally, that's not rare, it's nonexistent.
    I stopped running after 120+lockboxes and 50+runs 2 chest each time because the frustration of knowing you will end up empty is greater then the fun running it.

    Not only that I think i seen 2 drop total in those 50 runs making it more or less 50x5x2(1) roughly about 450 chest with 2 drops total it is not rare as stated above its more like nonexistent to me also hence the problem...
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    They should finally implement diminishing RNG in this game.

    (numbers are only an example)

    It will work like this. At the first run of TONG u have chance of 2% on a Ultimate Ench. Stone.
    If you dont get a drop on the next run your chance of dropping one increase to 3% and so on.
    This will makes sure that EVERYONE can atleast be sure that he will get a stone in a certain amount of runs.
    Cause the way its now makes a good 50% of the Playerbase frustrated as HAMSTER.
    Its just not fun to run TONG and get 0 drops in 50 runs while someone else might get 10 drops in the same amount of runs.

    What id also like to see is a chance on each boss for u to get an Ench Stone
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    The droprate of UES appears to be less than 1%. Not exactly the most viable way of hoping to get your hands on rank 14s.

    Mod edited rule violation.
    Post edited by kreatyve on
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • manufracturemanufracture Member Posts: 92 Arc User

    I've only gotten 3 of the stones so far. 2 from ToNG, 1 from a lockbox. I know plenty of others who have never seen one drop, and I don't expect to see any more myself anytime soon.

    Yes, it's frustrating when we're trying to build ourselves back up from being weaker after 12b, or even if we're just trying to improve in general. However, I don't see it as a problem. It isn't supposed to be easy to attain and maintain end-game status. "End-game" is constantly evolving. Even now, future mods are in progress that will likely bring better gear, harder dungeons, and more challenging content.

    In addition, we can't expect to have the latest and greatest stuff so soon after a mod release. It's really just bragging rights until the next mod is released. I know I personally enjoy working to better my characters, and I wouldn't be satisfied if it were handed to me so easily. I enjoy a challenge, and I know that I will eventually have r13/r14 enchantments, so I'm not really bothered by their rarity. The price will drop as more are introduced into the market, anyhow.

    Of course, greed makes me wish they were cheaper just like everyone else, but I understand the reasoning and I am content with it.

    You typed what I was thinking...it is the modern gaming world where if something hard and does not hold your hand people bleet and bark about it. Sheesh what is the point of it being BiS if EVERYONE has it haha
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User

    I've only gotten 3 of the stones so far. 2 from ToNG, 1 from a lockbox. I know plenty of others who have never seen one drop, and I don't expect to see any more myself anytime soon.

    Yes, it's frustrating when we're trying to build ourselves back up from being weaker after 12b, or even if we're just trying to improve in general. However, I don't see it as a problem. It isn't supposed to be easy to attain and maintain end-game status. "End-game" is constantly evolving. Even now, future mods are in progress that will likely bring better gear, harder dungeons, and more challenging content.

    In addition, we can't expect to have the latest and greatest stuff so soon after a mod release. It's really just bragging rights until the next mod is released. I know I personally enjoy working to better my characters, and I wouldn't be satisfied if it were handed to me so easily. I enjoy a challenge, and I know that I will eventually have r13/r14 enchantments, so I'm not really bothered by their rarity. The price will drop as more are introduced into the market, anyhow.

    Of course, greed makes me wish they were cheaper just like everyone else, but I understand the reasoning and I am content with it.

    You typed what I was thinking...it is the modern gaming world where if something hard and does not hold your hand people bleet and bark about it. Sheesh what is the point of it being BiS if EVERYONE has it haha
    No bleeting or barking here, just calling out a money grab. This isn't difficult, it's rng behind money. It's gambling. IF it were a difficult dungeon, if it were a raid that called for skill to make it work, if it were actually a challenge and not a betting against the house event I could see your point.

    However, you've missed the point, there is no challenge in running the same dungeon a thousand times or opening lock boxes, if that's your idea of challenge... well it's an interesting definition imho.

    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • manufracturemanufracture Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    blajev said:



    You typed what I was thinking...it is the modern gaming world where if something hard and does not hold your hand people bleet and bark about it. Sheesh what is the point of it being BiS if EVERYONE has it haha

    what is the point to play video game if its less rewording and much harder then real life, or you go in real world for relaxation only ?
    But the game is rewarding, this is why so many people play it, myself included. If you want to relax you can, stop wanting to achieve BiS and if you get there great, if not well great too. You do not need to top all the charts to enjoy the game. Take an online FPS for example, you can become the top dog if you put the hours into the game to hone your skills. I have a friend who was in one of the top clans in my country in BF3 and what they did was pracise EVERYNIGHT to ensure they work as a single unit. My clan never did and as such were never the best. Same here - those that put the effort, time, money whatever into this game deserve the highest rewards, those that don't, well simply don't. This is not a "socialist" type game but rather a "captilist" one - I really don't mean to argue politics but this is the best analogy I can give to explain my personal views. Yours may differ and good for you.

    “There are always two choices. Two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy.” -Unknown
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
    Mod 12 and by extention mod 12b is a horrible fail that is sad since mod 11 was completely useless with no content to return too. Maybe they should make the stones drop in random q's that might make it worth playing it
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User

    blajev said:



    You typed what I was thinking...it is the modern gaming world where if something hard and does not hold your hand people bleet and bark about it. Sheesh what is the point of it being BiS if EVERYONE has it haha

    what is the point to play video game if its less rewording and much harder then real life, or you go in real world for relaxation only ?
    But the game is rewarding, this is why so many people play it, myself included. If you want to relax you can, stop wanting to achieve BiS and if you get there great, if not well great too. You do not need to top all the charts to enjoy the game. Take an online FPS for example, you can become the top dog if you put the hours into the game to hone your skills. I have a friend who was in one of the top clans in my country in BF3 and what they did was pracise EVERYNIGHT to ensure they work as a single unit. My clan never did and as such were never the best. Same here - those that put the effort, time, money whatever into this game deserve the highest rewards, those that don't, well simply don't. This is not a "socialist" type game but rather a "captilist" one - I really don't mean to argue politics but this is the best analogy I can give to explain my personal views. Yours may differ and good for you.

    “There are always two choices. Two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy.” -Unknown
    Capitalist in the sense that vegas is capitalism. Working hard for what you get is a misnomer. I have a decent job, there are some days I don't work hard at all. I still get a decent wage. There are other days I work really hard, worth more than what I am paid. There are times I struggle with groups in the game and "work hard' to complete a dungeon. There are times I'm with a fotm comp of BISers and it's easy mode.

    None of these things guarantee me anything when it is gated behind RNG. This is the issue, you seem to think it has something to do with work ethics. How can you call it work ethics when it's betting at a table and the odds are in the houses favor. That really doesn't make any sense to me.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    mynaam said:

    Mod 12 and by extention mod 12b is a horrible fail that is sad since mod 11 was completely useless with no content to return too. Maybe they should make the stones drop in random q's that might make it worth playing it

    I must disagree here, and I hope noone takes my distaste for the UES strategy as hating on the game or dev bashing. It's literally a disagreement in economics policy. The skirmish they added that you gain campaign currency and free loot from is amazing imho, bugtober covered a LOT of bugs existing in the game and was a time consuming effort to fix some really annoying issues in game.

    Mod 12B has a lot of good additions with what I think are good intentions. The tenacity change was definitely the right one imho. Giving everyone tenacity was a great move. However there have been a few stumbling blocks that come back to bight them imho. 1) UES drop rates as posted here. 2)Shadow of demise TRs in PVP as I have posted in the PVP area. 3)Sandies pants... which have also been fixed, so again, kudos. 4)An initial bug (and perhaps a continued bug) of being able to get the SH rewards for SH siege PVP (this has been partially addressed, guilds still have a hard time Qing against themselves in public Q, so they're obviously working on it).

    I don't throw the whole game into a negative light because of some issues that are still ongoing. I do however wish the management team/community manager were more involved in communicating and trying to fix serious issues.
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • manufracturemanufracture Member Posts: 92 Arc User

    blajev said:



    You typed what I was thinking...it is the modern gaming world where if something hard and does not hold your hand people bleet and bark about it. Sheesh what is the point of it being BiS if EVERYONE has it haha

    what is the point to play video game if its less rewording and much harder then real life, or you go in real world for relaxation only ?
    But the game is rewarding, this is why so many people play it, myself included. If you want to relax you can, stop wanting to achieve BiS and if you get there great, if not well great too. You do not need to top all the charts to enjoy the game. Take an online FPS for example, you can become the top dog if you put the hours into the game to hone your skills. I have a friend who was in one of the top clans in my country in BF3 and what they did was pracise EVERYNIGHT to ensure they work as a single unit. My clan never did and as such were never the best. Same here - those that put the effort, time, money whatever into this game deserve the highest rewards, those that don't, well simply don't. This is not a "socialist" type game but rather a "captilist" one - I really don't mean to argue politics but this is the best analogy I can give to explain my personal views. Yours may differ and good for you.

    “There are always two choices. Two paths to take. One is easy. And its only reward is that it's easy.” -Unknown
    Capitalist in the sense that vegas is capitalism. Working hard for what you get is a misnomer. I have a decent job, there are some days I don't work hard at all. I still get a decent wage. There are other days I work really hard, worth more than what I am paid. There are times I struggle with groups in the game and "work hard' to complete a dungeon. There are times I'm with a fotm comp of BISers and it's easy mode.

    None of these things guarantee me anything when it is gated behind RNG. This is the issue, you seem to think it has something to do with work ethics. How can you call it work ethics when it's betting at a table and the odds are in the houses favor. That really doesn't make any sense to me.
    Ok on the gambling issue you are 100% correct, it is a gamble and one of the new machanics in just about all games nowadays (even paid for single player games have loot boxes you can buy for a chance of better gear - see the new Star Wars Battlefront II game). The game makers have tapped into a human condition and are activedly exploiting it for sure - much like the HAMSTER industry, it aint right but it is a human weakness and as such people will use it to part us from our money while we smile :blush:

    However having said that though luck is one thing but certainly time is another as it "places more fishing rods in the water to better your chances of catching a fish" - Let me try and explain it this way. I current have 6 toons - 3 are for actively playing, 3 are for praying. Of the 3 playing characters I mostly play my SW more than my other two, with my BF next and finally my CW (which I started and mained about 9 months before the others). My SW is now way ahead in terms of gear & stats with my CW & GF about equal - this tells me that putting more time into my SW has not only caught up with my CW but surpassed it by miles - if time had nothing to do with progression on items then how would this be possible as by pure luck I could get way better drops from my toons which are played least and could have shoddy luck with my main - but the reality does not support this theory.

    This is what I am trying to say about Capilism vs Socialism - one wants to be given something while the other has the freedom to expend resources (be it time or money) and achieve greatness.

    Another small example of what I am trying to say is taken the rules of project management: There are 3 main items involved, Time, Resources, Quality. If you skimped on Time but want to maintain Quality then you need to add Resources, If you Lack Resources but want to maintain Quality then you add Time, and if you skimp on both Time and Resources you invariable adjust Quality lower - this is inescapable.

    Apply that same logic to my theory, if you want to be BiS (Quality) then you need to bump up either you playing time (Time) or spend real world money (Resources) to get there as relying only on luck will not cut IMO

    Note that I have NEVER recieved a CWARD from any of the boxes from praying I have always been forced to purchase via the Zen Store - these are like Bigfoot in my eyes, there is talk about them dropping but I dont believe it as I have not experienced it...that is what happens when relying no luck.
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User



    But the game is rewarding, this is why so many people play it, myself included. If you want to relax you can, stop wanting to achieve BiS and if you get there great, if not well great too. You do not need to top all the charts to enjoy the game.

    It's not and that is the problem. The rewards are far and few. They spend time developing things that no one asked for (random queue). They add items that drop so infrequently that more folks have likely seen a big foot.

    That's not rewarding, that's not fun and more importantly that is not how you design a game that you expect people to stick with.
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