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All I have to insure that I have a positive gaming experience is CHOICE

ragnarz2ragnarz2 Member Posts: 208 Arc User
Dear Cryptic,

The recent changes to how the queue system works goes against the core of everything I believe is important, choice. It also violates the principal of what problem are we trying to fix?; at least to some extent. While I am sure you were all sitting around the table trying to figure out how to solve this nebulous problem of under utilized dungeons your approach leaves much to be desired. Game design often is about setting boundaries and forcing the customer to progress along a particular path. That is mostly tolerable if there is a promise of freedom post progression. While your Queuing and Matching system leaves a lot to be desired compounding its flaws with this new forced random pugging is just insulting. To flip it on its side I offer the following . . . why not scrap the whole guild and alliance mechanics if you don't want your player base to choose how they collaborate? Remove chat while your at it. Hyperbole, yes. Point being Cryptic is that you are alienating me by saying that I can not choose how to play except to boycott a formally comfortable daily method of earning AD. Well run businesses do not make bad decisions like this only those who are out of touch. Alternatively you could have found a viable incentive to have people run specific instances. Imagine if there was something to offer that people really wanted (no NOT 40 Demonic Icor(sp)) well jeez Cryptic you already had a mechanism in place for incentives.

Bottom line; you have gone down an autocratic path of anti-choice. If you imagine that your hold on the player base is such that you can weather the storm of negativity then I have a bridge to sell you.

Note, admitting your wrong is actually something that will work in your favor. Don't take your que from the flavor of the month belligerence and unrepentance that is percolating out there in the real world.

Comments

  • elvalianonelvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    The random queue system has been introduced in an attempt to tackle bots. As usual the rest of the player base has to suffer under these nerfs and circumstances. Every year or so Cryptic does something considerable controversial, everyone cries, some or a lot of people leave the game and everyone left swallows the bullet and just kind of moves on. Elemental Evil was the first exception, a mod produced so badly they actually apologized and took about a full year to fix and balance it out. Now I do think the majority of this module’s expansion is actually decent, good even! They seem to have done a good job on the refinement system, the bonding nerf is kinda mweh but sort of expected, I’m well beyond of capable to become angry about such things after 4 years of enduring Cryptic terror. However, I stand with your statement that the random queue system is a dreadful choice and like elemental evil, deserves an apology and a lot of fixing, if not be removed again entirely.

    I remember reading in one of the posts that announced this new feature that it would benefit new players and alts. Yes and… no! The refinement system became a lot better; yes this is great for all of us. The queue system however is absolutely dreadful for a new player, as you need to unlock all dungeons before you can even do a random queue for them. Wait what? That’s just ridiculous! Not only do you restrict the freedom of choice of which dungeon we want to run to gain RAD, but also you are limited to soon boring as hell sub 70 dungeons, over and over and over again until you get to the point where you have unlocked all dungeons. Of course you can run the dungeons as you unlock them for gear, but once you got that the point of running them is lost, apart from entertainment and some salvage you might get.

    If you happen to have unlocked all dungeons you are the lucky player who gets to queue into an epic dungeon, which might last from 15 min to 2 hours, depending on the group and dungeon you will be put into. Great idea for those who have limited time, or just aren’t feeling like spending an hour or more in a high end dungeon they might not even be geared properly for. Can you feel the sarcasm? An eLoL does not compare to an mSP, I cannot even understand how this hasn’t made the table.

    Of course, if you want to make some quick AD, just do a sub 70 random queue again, like those will remain fun. And let’s not forget all new players doing their first time dungeon ending up with level 70 players speeding through them, causing these poor infants to never see a mob in their early lifetime.

    Ok, so why don’t you just make a party that’s capable of doing all dungeons and start an epic random queue? Because it may take a whole lot of effort to get such a group together, if you are in a big advance guild or alliance this shouldn’t be a problem, some kind of channel would help too. Though again, if your time is limited, why would you? Also, think about all those small to medium guilds and newer players, who cannot get such a group together. I’m just getting flashbacks to mod 3 to 5, with people just queuing and leaving, bickering over tactics and calling their party members things, telling them to sod off in hopes of getting someone “better”. Those where situations I avoided by raising a non exploit guild, but these things need growing and a lot of hard work. I feel sorry for all the people that you force back into these ancient days.

    I believe this is a bullet tough to swallow and does more harm to your community than good. I understand fighting bots is high on your priority list, but your player base should come first. After all; without them you are nothing.



  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    Forcing players into a random dungeon to earn their daily AD is not a bad idea to get players to run a variety of dungeons. The issue is how it was implemented.

    *Random Q should be applied to Epic Dungeons only
    *Random Q for Epic Dungeons is separated by Dungeon Tier
    *Random Q can only be select when not in a group, meaning no preformed groups going into a Random Q
    *One Random Q run provides full daily dungeon RAD and bonus AD (see below)
    *Leveling Dungeons should stay as they were for players that do not have the IL required to run Epic Dungeons - meaning a level 40 can run Cloak Tower and still earn their AD if they want
    *Once a player is level 70 and has an item level to run the Random Q for the Epic Dungeons, their RAD gain from a leveling dungeon would be 10% of what they would earn previously. This would encourage players to run the Random Q, but provide them the option to run the leveling dungeon if they wish but the reduction in RAD would encourage more players to run the Random Q
    *Bonus AD should be awarded based on the number level of player activity by Tier, need of role, and first time players.
    *The more Random Q a player runs a day, the player luck at getting a rare/epic hard to obtain non-standard item in the treasure chest will increase by 10%. The luck increase modifier rest if a player pick up a rare/epic non-standard item. Meaning, if a player runs 10 Random Q, by the last run if the player did not get any rare/epic non-standard item they will get one. Non-standard rare/epic items include artifact, mount, companion, +5 rings, etc...

    This keep random Q in tact and reduces botting players that are level 70 that run cloak tower as the AD gained from that would be down to almost nothing. It also would provide a bonus to RAD and improve odds at getting unique items in the chest the more you are willing to run Random Q dungeons.



  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 221 Arc User
    A game should never force players to "Play it our way". Games are an entertainment, to be enjoyed. Enjoyment achieved in game, from dungeon runs, to playing the AH, even so far as (gasp) role playing should be encouraged. As long as the rules are followed who cares how I or anyone else plays. Taking away choices of how a player plays is not a good policy.

    My views, anyway random queue is here regardless.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,096 Arc User
    I finally did the LRQ today with a few toons. I feel really bad for all the low-level toons in there.

    When I carry low-geared toons thru T2s, I expect them to play their hardest even though their contribution isn't as significant. It gives them something to do and possibly something to learn. But with level 70s in the leveling dungeons, there is absolutely nothing for the low-level toons to do but to follow because all the mobs get one-shotted, including the bosses.

    I kill all the mobs because if I leave them behind, then some low-level toon who fell behind might find it difficult to get pass them. I'm sure there are lots of players who will just run to the end leaving behind the mobs and not caring.

    To make it worst, the LRQ gives 10K AD while the ERQ gives 7K, plus another 1K for role bonus, which pretty much only healers get. This only encourages the level 70s to do LRQ instead of ERQ.
  • elvalianonelvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    To add on top the pile of issues. A healing spec SW will not be recognized by the random queue system as a healer, so your party options are limited. With the random queue you need to have at least one healer and tank, which if you get queued into FBI or mSP makes sense, but for a T1 may be absolutely unnecessary. For T1 and most T2 dungeons I would just pick up whoever applied in guild or alliance chat, of course this depends on the team. Now I am forced to deny certain players due to their class which might not have been needed at all...great!

    Why does the random queue not exist in private mode anyway?
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    To add on top the pile of issues. A healing spec SW will not be recognized by the random queue system as a healer, so your party options are limited. With the random queue you need to have at least one healer and tank, which if you get queued into FBI or mSP makes sense, but for a T1 may be absolutely unnecessary. For T1 and most T2 dungeons I would just pick up whoever applied in guild or alliance chat, of course this depends on the team. Now I am forced to deny certain players due to their class which might not have been needed at all...great!

    Why does the random queue not exist in private mode anyway?

    This applies for a DPS DC or GF. GWF that are setup as a tank are not considered tanks in this game. The Q system needs a full overhaul as the classes paragon path and feats to ensure player can play their support role if the character is built to play that role.

    If I have a GWF setup as a tank, why can I not tank any content and always considered a GWF. My GF is a setup as a DPS yet I'm always considered a tank. Ugh....don't give me the option to play one way or another if I cannot Q my character up with said build and be effective with said build.
  • earlgreybeardearlgreybeard Member Posts: 355 Arc User

    To add on top the pile of issues. A healing spec SW will not be recognized by the random queue system as a healer, so your party options are limited. With the random queue you need to have at least one healer and tank, which if you get queued into FBI or mSP makes sense, but for a T1 may be absolutely unnecessary. For T1 and most T2 dungeons I would just pick up whoever applied in guild or alliance chat, of course this depends on the team. Now I am forced to deny certain players due to their class which might not have been needed at all...great!

    Why does the random queue not exist in private mode anyway?

    This applies for a DPS DC or GF. GWF that are setup as a tank are not considered tanks in this game. The Q system needs a full overhaul as the classes paragon path and feats to ensure player can play their support role if the character is built to play that role.

    If I have a GWF setup as a tank, why can I not tank any content and always considered a GWF. My GF is a setup as a DPS yet I'm always considered a tank. Ugh....don't give me the option to play one way or another if I cannot Q my character up with said build and be effective with said build.
    They could give certain classes that have the ability for dual roles a toggle type switch next to the load out dropdown say, where they could switch from DPS to heals or DPS to tank.. OP wouldn't need that of course

    I like the idea of tankier GWF's that iron warrior paragon could produce if it was viable and perhaps reworked to provide party buffs
    Guild Leader Den of the Misfits
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    To add on top the pile of issues. A healing spec SW will not be recognized by the random queue system as a healer, so your party options are limited. With the random queue you need to have at least one healer and tank, which if you get queued into FBI or mSP makes sense, but for a T1 may be absolutely unnecessary. For T1 and most T2 dungeons I would just pick up whoever applied in guild or alliance chat, of course this depends on the team. Now I am forced to deny certain players due to their class which might not have been needed at all...great!

    Why does the random queue not exist in private mode anyway?

    This applies for a DPS DC or GF. GWF that are setup as a tank are not considered tanks in this game. The Q system needs a full overhaul as the classes paragon path and feats to ensure player can play their support role if the character is built to play that role.

    If I have a GWF setup as a tank, why can I not tank any content and always considered a GWF. My GF is a setup as a DPS yet I'm always considered a tank. Ugh....don't give me the option to play one way or another if I cannot Q my character up with said build and be effective with said build.
    They could give certain classes that have the ability for dual roles a toggle type switch next to the load out dropdown say, where they could switch from DPS to heals or DPS to tank.. OP wouldn't need that of course

    I like the idea of tankier GWF's that iron warrior paragon could produce if it was viable and perhaps reworked to provide party buffs
    I played other MMOs where classes had two or more roles and players simply got to pick the role they were going to play when they qued into the content. Using my CW as an example; why am I pigeonholed into playing a DPS. What if I wanted to play as a buffer. That is not an option and I'm stuck playing as a DPS due to the q system.

    Same with my GF and DC. I am stuck as a tank and healer; even if I wanted to play as a DPS.
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    There was a solution to the problem they were trying to solve and it worked (at least on me and my crew)

    The blood ruby weekly. We ran our FBI, MSPC, MSVA and MDemo every week for that blood ruby. That is going away, so there is not way you will see me in an MSVA or MDemo again. But that worked while we had it.

    The Random queue would have been fine if it had been a bonus to AD, and then to get the rest of us to play a wider variety of dungeons - tack on a weekly reward for completing one of each dungeon. That would have enticed me back into malabogs or VT.

    Half of our alliance didn't even know about the blood ruby quest until it was mentioned over and over in the alliance chat "need X for 1 MSVA then Mdemo for blood ruby"

    Give us bonuses for playing the way you want us to - don't FORCE us to play the way you want us to.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    I'm been playing MMOs for about 10 years. I'm 100% find myself disgusted more and more with MMO developers each year. They continue to find ways to upset their customers and work on fixes that causes us to spend more money.

    This is the only MMO that I have a membership with and it will be my last. Once my VIP ends, I will be done with NW as well. The updates to this game are just horrible. LB are just horrible gambling boxes. Dungeon drop rate for rare items are horrible. Drop rate for ultra rare rings are bad for most.

    This game RNG system needs an overhaul , the q system needs an overhaul, class and roles that can be played by them need to be adjusted, etc...

    Many mmo are experiencing similar things and they all contribute to players frustration and eventually the player does 1 of 2 things. 1) They quit or 2) they deal and continue.

    I have made up my mind. Once my VIP is done. I'm done and don't ask for my stuff, someone already been informed they will receive my stuff upon my exit.

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,214 Arc User
    How far along a given paragon path makes one DPS or Tank or Healer? How far along one the trees makes the difference? Far easier for the game to have the GF (DPS or otherwise) flagged as a tank, to have the DC flagged as a healer.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    greywynd said:

    How far along a given paragon path makes one DPS or Tank or Healer? How far along one the trees makes the difference? Far easier for the game to have the GF (DPS or otherwise) flagged as a tank, to have the DC flagged as a healer.

    The Oathbound Paladin is the best example of how the developers can design roles within the game. The paragon path picked, can determine the role you are assigned when you q into content.


    Using Control Wizard as an example: Master of Flame is clearly superior to Spell Storm CW for buffing. Therefore, a player that runs a Master of Flame would be qued as a Buffer and the Spell Storm builds would be qued as a DPS. Like a Oath of Protection or Devotion paladin are able to select whatever paragon feats they want, the same would still be true after this type of update.

    This would mean a MoF can go full on DPS and forgo buffing the group if they so desired or design their character to buff the group as designed.

    This is less of a pigeonhole to builds as you would be able to play as a DPS or a support role by your selecting a specific paragon at level 30. How you build after that is still up to the player.

    It could also let the devs add an additional support role to 5 man dungeons. A buffer role should be added.

    For DC's maybe there roles would be buffer and healer.

    There are ways to expand this game and improve it moreso than what is currently in game.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    IIRC, its not the paragon path but the capstone that flags an OP as a healer
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User

    IIRC, its not the paragon path but the capstone that flags an OP as a healer

    On PS4 at least it's the paragon path that flags the pally.

    Both my tank and healadin spec have the same capstone but one is Dev and one is Prot - the queue system recognizes which paragon path I have on each spec at the point that I join the queue. If I change loadout after joining the queue it doesn't recognize my altered loadout.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    IIRC, its not the paragon path but the capstone that flags an OP as a healer

    It has to be the paragon path as there are still three capstones and they are the same regardless if you went Devotion or Protector.
  • elvalianonelvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I am (still) heavily irritated by the counter productive change they made. Why on earth or any realm for that matter would they add load outs so we can experiment different builds, therefore promoting interesting builds to enjoy. Only to next enforce a class limitation on the main source of income!

    I have limited time left for playing an actually dungeon after managing a guild I and others keep alive to enjoy your game, Cryptic. For 4 years might I add. But each time I have attempted to run a random epic dungeon we had to bail to a regular no AD reward dungeon because the roles did not match. I am not one to turn someone away over their class if we don't have to, especially if they perfectly for fill the role needed. This is down right discriminating and against the rules of our guild and alliance and everything we stand for. If someone has multiple classes we're lucky to adjust, but still this comes down to telling someone they cannot play something they want. You're system is broken, fix it. @mimicking#6533 @nitocris83

    This is by far one of the worst choices Cryptic made.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    I have said it before, but I will repeat myself here.

    Unlike what the developers seem to think, not everyone runs dungeons just for the bonus AD.
    • I would run a specific dungeon over and over for a specific drop - for example, I ran eGWD until I got that bloodstained shirt I wanted. The bonus AD and the weekly quest for Dungeoneering shards were nice additions, but not the primary reason. Now I can still run a dungeon for a chance of specific drops - but I won't get the bonus AD or the shards, so I'm worse off than before - less motivation to run the dungeon.
    • I would frequently join a guild/alliance group for something, regardless of rewards, just to help out - however, many of the people running were usually after the bonus AD, and the group would just include the first 5 people to express interest. Now there has been a significant decrease in guild runs. Anyone calling for a RQ run might have to refuse some people because they are the "wrong class", and many people cannot join anyhow as they do not have everything unlocked. Anyone calling for a specific dungeon will get fewer takers as well, because those were the people that really needed that bonus AD - again, less motivation.
    • I would occasionally run a dungeon/trial/skirmish with a PUG just because I felt bored - however, my playing time is limited, and sometimes I might have time for a 10-minute one - sometimes for a 40-minute one. With RQs I have no control over the amount of time, so...thanks but no thanks - so, reduced motivation as I have said before.
    Many people pointed out various issues with the RQs, but were ignored. Considering that some of the people being ignored have more experience in software development than the current batch of developers, that's simply not very smart.

    For now I am expressing my displeasure in a simple way, by not buying any Zen until something improves.
    Post edited by adinosii on
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I have said it before, but I will repeat myself here.

    Unlike what the developers seem to think, not everyone runs dungeons just for the bonus AD.

    • I would run a specific dungeon over and over for a specific drop - for example, I ran eGWD until I got that bloodstained shirt I wanted. The bonus AD and the weekly quest for Dungeoneering shards were nice additions, but not the primary reason. Now I can still run a dungeon for a chance of specific drops - but I won't get the bonus AD or the shards, so I'm worse off than before - less motivation to run the dungeon.
    • I would frequently join a guild/alliance group for something, regardless of rewards, just to help out - however, many of the people running were usually after the bonus AD, and the group would just include the first 5 people to express interest. Now there has been a significant decrease in guild runs. Anyone calling for a RQ run might have to refuse some people because they are the "wrong class", and many people cannot join anyhow as they do not have everything unlocked. Anyone calling for a specific dungeon will get fewer takers as well, because those were the people that really needed that bonus AD - again, less motivation.
    • I would occasionally run a dungeon/trial/skirmish with a PUG just because I felt bored - however, my playing time is limited, and sometimes I might have time for a 10-minute one - sometimes for a 40-minute one. With RQs I have no control over the amount of time, so...thanks but no thanks - so, reduced motivation as I have said before.
    Many people pointed out various issues with the RQs, but were ignored. Considering that some of the people being ignored have more experience in software development than the current batch of developers, that's simply not very smart.

    For now I am expressing my displeasure in a simply way, by not buying any Zen until something improves.
    Blondstained shirt has avoid me now for many runs. I ran it 50x in one day between 2 characters and I have yet to see it. Yet one player I ran it with got it 3x on that day and they were all excited as that fulfilled their need as it gave them what they needed for their characters. Ugh...

    I have eGWD. LOL...

    Now if you want +5 rings from the underdark campaign, the only one I have not gotten 2x now is the Ring of Rising power - still waiting for that one to fall in my lap. LOL...
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