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The Aggro questions

Hello fellow GFs!

I really would like to start using Guarded Assault feature to combo it with Crushing Pin, but I'm affraid that I'll loose my aggro generation. Currently I run with Steel Defense and Ehanced Mark (also have mark class feature weapon bonus) and usually go for ITF, KV and ET during dungeon runs. I switch to ITF, CS and Griffon (for pin) when in boss fights but I noticed it takes to long to land whole combo, especially when fighting Orcus - Steel Defense doesn't last long enough.

So basically my question is - will I loose a lot of aggro if I quit Enhanced Mark and swap it for Guarded Assault?

Comments

  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    Best thing to do is try it out, aggro depends on your damage output. So depends if you are conq, or have good offensive stats.

    But if I was you I'd start learning to tank without steel defense and use enhance + guarded or even guarded + combat superiority (-8% damage debuff as well as damage boost). Block, ability, block, ability etc. Just don't get too greedy. I find that steel defense hogs up a class feature and provides little to the party and yourself once you know how to tank without it.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User

    Hello fellow GFs!

    I really would like to start using Guarded Assault feature to combo it with Crushing Pin, but I'm affraid that I'll loose my aggro generation. Currently I run with Steel Defense and Ehanced Mark (also have mark class feature weapon bonus) and usually go for ITF, KV and ET during dungeon runs. I switch to ITF, CS and Griffon (for pin) when in boss fights but I noticed it takes to long to land whole combo, especially when fighting Orcus - Steel Defense doesn't last long enough.

    So basically my question is - will I loose a lot of aggro if I quit Enhanced Mark and swap it for Guarded Assault?

    @wizardlvl80#5963 I second what @grimah said. I'd say the problem you're having is using that cheesy steel defence, sure the immunity helps (maybe way too much even if it lasts briefly) but there you are missing other missing pretty nice combinations of personal features, like guarded assault (with off-hand enhancement) + enhanced mark for reflecting damage, self-healing with fighter's recovery on, increased aggro and spreading debuffs (such as crushing pin, works better if you have KV on) and companion active powers (cockatrice or something like that lol); combat superiority + guarded assault (more tankiness and damage + benefits explained beforehand) and etc.

    Just take out steel defence out of your rotation forever (except maybe when you run with terribad randoms etc), experiment combinations of difference class features and after a while you'll want to slap yourself for not doing it before xD Seriously though, just do it and you'll see what @grimah and I meant, you'll love it! You'll understand certain game mechanics better (as steel defence's immunity makes you lazy and oblivious about certain things/enemy powers, etc).

    If your toon can run all possible content to date then get your ressitance ignored in combat to 60% and depending on whether you pve only or not, power/crit or crazy high power are the way to go.

    I'd say yes, you may lose some aggro if taking out enhanced mark for guarded assault so just say bye bye to steel defence. If your damage output is good enough + you tab mark you can hold decent aggro but again, get rid of steel defence, you just need to get used to actually being a mortal being.

    If you want more detailed answers I strongly suggest you to ask some to @rjc9000 and @kemi1984 :)B)
  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    I get you guys but I think there's content where Steel Defense is just too good to ignore. Also, I can't see how I should work on my damage when survivability and recovery are basic stats for tactician. Where to stick in offensive stats? I don't see place for it.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited April 2017

    I get you guys but I think there's content where Steel Defense is just too good to ignore.

    For example?

    I don't have any issues tanking in all content without it. Orcus is the most difficult out of all and if you can learn to do that then you won't need it anywhere else. Also it is the worst class feature to use for tactician build.

    As for offensive stats, if you focused into recovery then That is understandable, you'd have to stick with enhanced mark, otherwise you can go 15 into conq for jagged blades and maximise your power (alongside recovery) you should try to get enough crit to proc it also but that shouldn't be difficult.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • jaime4312#3760 jaime4312 Member Posts: 844 Arc User

    I get you guys but I think there's content where Steel Defense is just too good to ignore. Also, I can't see how I should work on my damage when survivability and recovery are basic stats for tactician. Where to stick in offensive stats? I don't see place for it.

    @wizardlvl80#5963 No, for the looks of it you still don't seem to get what @grimah and I mean, steel defence simply has no place in any rotation (unless maybe you run with a group of terribad randies and even then I wouldn't use it) simply because if you learn to run with it the other combinations are better and give you more consistent perfomance explained on my previous post.

    What are your stats? Hp, damage resistance, resistance ignored in combat and power?

    Where is steel defence too good to ignore when you have a good team? I cannot think of any dungeon or skirmish in the game that can justify make you give up either aggro, consistent self-healing or debuffing potential simply to have that cheap 3.5 secs immunity window.

    I'm going to give you an eample with my IV GF vs SM GF MSVA. I'm building my toon to have quite a bit of survability by himself without needing damage immunity so, how does he do when Storvald hits him with his most powerful attackscompared to his SM counterparts? He loses a lot of health but survives and can heal himself almost right away with fighter's recovery no problem. What about SM GFs? If steel defence is on, they take like no damage from what I've seen, but what about if they couldn't get that power to proc before getting hit? WIth exceptions obviously, average SM GFs will get, most if the times and if not carried by anointed army, 1 shotted.

    As for your question, once you achieve a decent level of survability you can get your power and crit up for better aggro and soloing (assuming your resistance ignored in combat is 60%) or if you want you can go hardcore tank and further increase your tankiness at the cost taking longer to do daylies. Keep in mind that recovery has horrible diminishing returns for cooldown reductions, the more you stack the less effective it becomes.

    Like @grimah said, steel defence is the worst passive power for a tac guardian and that's because, even though it lasts briefly (although it can be kind of spammable under certain circumstances) and tac capstone is kind of meh, the damage immunity completely negates it, if you are immune to damage you can't generate ap for your teammates.

    If you want to stick to steel defence that's up to you but it's just a waste of a class feature slot and you'll missing the chance to actually needing to become better and better to effectively tanking in the new harder content and the one that's yet to come. Try other combinations of passive powers and may find one that can fit your playstyle, I strongly suggest to stop depending on damage immunities so it's your toon the one that does the tanking, not steel defence.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    To answer the original question, you don't need Enhanced Mark. I know many people that can aggro just fine with just their marking effects, ET, and Aggravating Strike, no enhanced mark needed

    (By the way, I suspect Enhanced Mark only works on your Tab Mark, as the offhand bonus only triggers on the Tab mark. It's pretty hard to test aggro generation otherwise.)

    You don't need to run Guarded Assault + offhand bonus. Enhanced Mark + offhand bonus is actually a pretty good alternative to the Guarded Assault + offhand bonus setup (I know Sume, of HR fame, runs the Enhanced Mark offhand bonus), although if you run Crushing Pin, you will need to manually apply it.

    If you want to be able to use Crushing Pin and the Enhanced Mark offhand bonus, I'd reccommend pulling a Barthos IV build. Take Iron Focus from the Protector path and use Frontline Surge as your substitute for ET. Then, run Enhanced Mark + whatever you want and this should solve most of your issues (save for awful soloing damage).

    _____

    Edit: Nevermind this part.

    But yeah, Steel Defense is pretty much the training wheel of GF class features: you use it when you're first trying to figure out how to use your GF, but ditch it once you're figure out the basics, as SD can teach you some bad habits (and takes up the slot of a more useful class feature, such as Combat Superiority or Steel Grace).

    An example would be FBI's hill climb: normally, the challenge is dodging all the danmaku boulders and red circles, while recognizing when enemies will attack you and shield accordingly. However, with SD, you simply activate your daily... which means you don't learn how to dodge (which is super important for learning to survive in other situations).
    Post edited by rjc9000 on

  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    The enchanced mark offhand bonus is resistance ignored, like ArP. So it's not as useful as crushing pin.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    grimah said:

    The enchanced mark offhand bonus is resistance ignored, like ArP. So it's not as useful as crushing pin.

    @michela123's debuff spreadsheet says otherwise.

    (According to her testing, the offhand bonus is a DR debuff like Crushing Pin, Wicked Reminder, Thorn Ward, Bane, etc. Unlike Crushing Pin, the uptime won't wildly vary based off enemies: you place your mark on enemies and the debuff is there, no need to worry.)

  • wizardlvl80#5963 wizardlvl80 Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    Actaully Guarded Assault bonus seems to me like it gives me more options to help my team. When I don't have to slot Griffon to spread it, I can run dungs with KV EF and ITF. Mark offhand bonus is nice but it feels like crushing pin is just too good to give up on it.
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    I can understand being a slave of Steel Defense, been there for a while - mod 6 to be exact.

    Further down the line I learned to not use it for the reasons my fellow GF's mentioned.

    GA with the off hand feature spreading Crushing Pin is simply beautiful.
    It heals you via Life Steal and Fighters Recovery, it causes your mates to deal more damage it generates aggro via reflecting damage - love, flowers and unicorns :)

    As for the aggro, usually KV + capped resistance ignored should give you the edge here. If that's not working, you pop ET and there we have it, everybody in the room hates you lol. Combine it with the usual sword jab here and there and you should be fine.

    Now on the topic of Steel Defense, @grimah was the 1st one to convince me that using SD with Tact capstone is counter productive. If you really want to make it shine you need to take damage, and a lot of it actually...with SD on you generate none. So using SD with Tact is just a waste of points.

    I would stick with Tact for the time being, till you feel comfortable enough. Than I would go Conq which has NO issues with aggro by dealing much more damage.

    Another mod will give us Lodouts which are the Holly Grail of all awesomnesesessss...we will be both uber tanks and bazooka gunners in a blink of an eye, I call it 10/10!

    Cheers!
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    rjc9000 said:

    grimah said:

    The enchanced mark offhand bonus is resistance ignored, like ArP. So it's not as useful as crushing pin.

    @michela123's debuff spreadsheet says otherwise.

    (According to her testing, the offhand bonus is a DR debuff like Crushing Pin, Wicked Reminder, Thorn Ward, Bane, etc. Unlike Crushing Pin, the uptime won't wildly vary based off enemies: you place your mark on enemies and the debuff is there, no need to worry.)
    I remember testing it and with 60% ArP the debuff added nothing. I will test again at some point but tied up with other things atm.

    edit: here is a link to my previous test was before the test weapons were put in, so if you want to test it again it should be alot easier.

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1215644/shedding-some-light-on-class-artifact-enhanced-mark?sso=eyJuYW1lIjoiIiwicGhvdG91cmwiOiIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0=+0f32ba6d7c0cc83a4ee2004ffb6056e8e6bf799d+1491317505+hmacsha1

    Post edited by grimah on
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I just want to throw my thoughts about the topics mentioned in the thread ,cause it is a really interesting one ,it covered and touched a lot of topics, aggro generation,tanking,crushing pin procs, steel defense ,features selection etc.

    I think when we compare diferent choices ,we must not look only a ,A vs B comparison,but also the change in gameplay and style that these choises imply.

    Also since a lot of Gf community participates in that thread ,i want to speak honestly about the loadouts implementation and what I fear.

    So about aggro generation in general:

    We have a general problem with that.Cause out threat generation is a vintage creation made up in distant mod6.Sure high IL conqs have no prob ,but we must see the whole picture.Prots and tacts have a problem more often especially if they are paired with high Il GWFs in dungeon runs or with Prot OPs in raids.
    Prot OP will steal threat from a GF nearly everytime cause of inherent class abilities.Sacred Weapon,Oath Strike,Vow of Emnity,Aura of Radiance,Relentless Avenger,Aura of Valor.All of these build threat ,and the king of threat is Vow.

    GF needs a threat buff ,its encounters and powers to have the threat element of it ,buffed.

    I think the most reliable way to keept threat is Aggr Strike in Tab marked enemy.But it requires at least 2 seconds to do that even in the most positive conditions.

    --------------------

    About Steel Defense: I disagree to the general consensus appeared in this thread ,for a number of reasons ,some of them might seem a little bit subjective.

    I strongly believe that a GF ,the main and best Defender clas of this game ,must not rely in others ,"strong party" ,"competent guild" "coordinated group" etc ,to succeed.A Gf must be self reliable and able to deliver the job done and to tank/aggro control the content and stay alive ,no matter if he runs with a superb 4k DC and 3 mega DPS ,or with another tank ( role fail...:/ ) ,or with 3 2,5k DPS and a DC that uses only att wills. :/

    I think we have to succeed in any circumstance and not wait for other classes to keep us alive.Simply unacceptable for me.Totally unacceptable i would say.

    So after this wall of text why Steel Defense is handy and indispersable?

    Cause it gives you TIME , and PLACE ,compared to any other feature.
    Time cause that 3,5 secs (less than 2,5 secs in real time if you add the daily animations or even less, ex: crescendo) allow you to continue your rotation as planned and keep party buffed and enemies ,aggro pinned.Or/and both.
    Place ,cause with good positioning and rotaion,allows you to place yourself in the heart of the add/mob swarm with out the fear of getting killed.And this is of umber importance as allows you to aggro control the battlefield with ET and/or Villain's.


    Also an experienced ,high IL toon,with Steel Defense slotted and with med/high LS can easily abandon Fighter's recovery .2,5-3 secs of immunity allow LS/boons/insignia/arti use and/or healer party toons ,to keep him alive.
    And with what you can abandon FR?With the mighty Villain's Menace.
    8 secs of CC immunity plus +20% more damage .=More Aggro.

    I think there is not a comparison daily to daily.

    In conclusion ,a high IL AP Build SM conq with LS and defensive setup with SD slotted will tank easily ,more efficiently and as explained above with more encounters uptime.ITF mainly.How much recovery stat is worth 2 secs of non interupt game play vs a blcking /turtling toon? 2k-3k recovery stats..??

    These about Steel Defense.

    --------------------

    Generally i also want to add,that i believe the main contribution of GF is aggro management and to keep that he needs to stay alive at all cost against all odds.
    A dead or turtling slow moving out of groups ITF range,is a Gf that primarily fails to fullfill his role.

    As time showed us again and again ,when game is trivialized (as of now atm) players tend to forget the mod6 lessons and try to experiment ,trying to add more utility to its role:
    It is of no importance in the end though: If the content is trivial ,a mere 10% party damager increase will not make any difference when the bosses are melted in secs.A 27 min FBI run will be done in 23-24.You think will someone notice?The DPS centainly not.Nor the DC...I am refering to the vast majority of players there and not the 5 forum posters that use ACT.these will notice.but doesnot make a difference.

    Sorry for the wall of text

    Edit:about loadouts.Expect a revival of Gf ner threads with the exact same antiGF posters.My two cents.
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Ok, so reading from above you're against lodouts to not have to defend the GF class from the nerf hammer?

    Sorry for asking this out of the bat but I really do not understand the logic. I will say it again, having the ability to change from defensive/utility Tact GF into a DPS toon in a flash is fantastic. And I'm really surprised that any non DPS class actually says so.

    If I were to go full DPS GF, I can do it, but I want to fulfill my role and provide damage mitigation and help to keep party safe when it's needed - specifically FBI and SVA.

    If you're a DPS, lodouts means very little for you. If you're a defensive type and need to bash critters 4 times longer in order to do your solo stuff, it's a huge positive change - it's really simple.

    I couldn't care less about forum whiners talking about GF nerfs. I want to enjoy playing my class and above mentioned feature will help a lot.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As for the Steel Defense, I actually used it for the first time in many months yesterday in mSVA. When I was a solo tank.
    Apart from extreme situations, I believe that other options are much better.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On the aggro topic, I agree we should have a lot more threat generation.
    We do have tools at our disposal to make the ugly guys face us, but still...more threat never hurts.

    As for the dailies. FR and VM are two dailies that never leave my bar. I tried to use Crescendo but I do believe it has no i-frames and I was KO'ed few times using it while tanking dragons in SH.

    FR with GA + the arti off hand feature works really well. No issue to stand your ground, raise your shield and take all the attacks via KV while healing at the same time. Combine it with painting the whole room with Crushing Pin it's almost too good :D
    Post edited by kemi1984 on
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • j345t3r4425j345t3r4425 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Steel defence is sub-optimal, but if you are still learning the mechanics and want to make sure you get invited back, use it. It saved me a few times from the spheres until I knew how they got summoned in orcus.

    For aggro, something else to consider is its easier to keep if you get it in the first place so in things like demo or sva if you dont know the group ask them to wait until you have aggro or pulled the boss. Secondly I have found steel grace and gladiators guile hugely beneficial for getting in first before the gwf or cw and getting aggro. However the speed is addictive, so be warned :wink:
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    kemi1984 said:

    Ok, so reading from above you're against lodouts to not have to defend the GF class from the nerf hammer?

    Sorry for asking this out of the bat but I really do not understand the logic. I will say it again, having the ability to change from defensive/utility Tact GF into a DPS toon in a flash is fantastic. And I'm really surprised that any non DPS class actually says so.

    I couldn't care less about forum whiners talking about GF nerfs. I want to enjoy playing my class and above mentioned feature will help a lot.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As for the Steel Defense, I actually used it for the first time in many months yesterday in mSVA. When I was a solo tank.
    Apart from extreme situations

    Hi kemi o/

    Correct for the question you asked.I am against loadouts cause it will nulify (in their logic) our counter argument that a DPS Gf cannot tank etc.
    Ofcourse and we are correct in that assesment but we don't have to do with logic people but with 18 year old incompetent 4k Il PVE GWFs that are out DPSed by utility GFs.They dont listen to reason ,and loadouts will fuel their hatred :/

    As for care or not ,you should cause the main class community that nerfs other classes,through endless forum whining are the GWFs and the CWs.CWs untill mod3-4 ,GWFs since ever.
    They uterly destroyed the original and fun to play mod2 HR,they nerfed SoS GF build ,they nerfed mod4 HRs,they failed to nerf mod5 TRs cause the main pvp guild leaders at that point were two TRs.So they did not had fre reigned to whine and cry like they did in Gf nerf threads.Nor to spam us with the same BS arguments all these years about the "squishy" GWFs.
    Whatever surpasses PVE GWFs DPS is prime candidate for nerfing.

    With loadouts high IL utility GFs could swap to DPS.And we will bemore visible as DPS class.today they are 5 or 6 DPS GFs in the server .With loadouts you will have dozens DPS GFs in a bleak of an eye.Think about it.

    And the devs listen to the uproar ,the nerf of the GFs was not in schedule.SWs and HRs were scheduled for a rework.
    It was because of the 11 nerf threads with 12 pages each created and supported by a CW , and 4 GWfs and 3 SWs that cried day and night and fabricated data.
    It was not the HRs or the TRs that nerfed the GF.It was mainly PVE GWFs.

    As for Steel defense we agree in essense.You said extreme situations.You mean i believe FBI.But FBI is the only real dungeon atm.The rest a Gf can tank them even using the most obscure and crazy rotation.
    So as said ,it makes little difference what you slot.(I dont count MSVA cause survival of GF is not based on his ability but on the ability of the other toons to block runes and/or DCs.I also dont cound SP cause adds are easy and the most difficult boss the second again has a broken ability ,that is not based on GFs skill to keep party alive)

  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I hear you man.

    I was there when countless buckets of HAMSTER were poured on GF's. How many times I heard we're top DPS, that we're the ultimate class of doom that can tank, buff and deal huge amounts of damage yada yada...

    I really do not see an issue, still. You wrote that with ability to change tank based toon into a DPS will suddenly make all those GF's being a DPS monstas. Some of them, sure...but lodouts will also create the same thing for other classes.

    And, to add to it, those of us who mains a GF and wanted to fulfill both roles, are already doing it for a while.
    Don't think lodouts will be the final nail that will push the GF into a pure tank role.

    People will always ask for nerfs, that's the nature of the beast. Some of our abilities were bonkers and they HAD to be nerfed.
    ITF at mod 6 was stupidly OP, I also remember the old days of Stalwart Bulwark, I'm actually that old lol :D

    Seriously, at the very least, we should be happy that we DO have a choice. We can be full turtle tanks, utility tanks with party buffs or pure DPS class. Seriously, no other class has so much flexibility. That's why we love our sexy GF don't we !? :D (skipp the last part if you're a Dwarf lol).

    I don't want to mess this thread up again, so I will just say - I know this CW you're talking about :)

    All in all, I think it is a very positive change and as always, we need to wait and see how will this work for us, and for the rest of the classes.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    ^^^^

    :) \o/

    let's agree that we disagree :) I will leave this thread to rest i typed too much.With that tempo i will reach the 5.500+ posts of the incompetent GWf :/

    See you kemi o/
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User


    For aggro, something else to consider is its easier to keep if you get it in the first place so in things like demo or sva if you dont know the group ask them to wait until you have aggro or pulled the boss. Secondly I have found steel grace and gladiators guile hugely beneficial for getting in first before the gwf or cw and getting aggro. However the speed is addictive, so be warned :wink:

    Demogorgon is a great place to practice basic tanking skills, especially during the snoozefest that is part 1.

    You can't just aggro the boss with DPS, so you need to learn how to use Aggravating Strike/marking effects/ET/or even KC.
    The boss' attacks aren't dangerous, but have their own telegraphs so a tank can get used to reading their opponent.
    You need to move around, forcing the tank to learn how to move while shielding or learn how to balance staying in shield versus out of shield.
    Lastly, the team might not have a healer/the healer may be focusing on the DPSers, so the tank needs to learn how to manage his/her own HP pool (Ie, when does the tank run near the mob pack, activate FR, poke an enemy once or twice for the HP refil, then move the demonic calimari away?).

    (Demogorgon is where I first learned to tank, so I have a bit of bias there).
    kemi1984 said:

    I don't want to mess this thread up again, so I will just say - I know this CW you're talking about :)

    Can't think of many CWs who really hate the idea of the Conqueror GF....

    <
    With loadouts high IL utility GFs could swap to DPS.And we will bemore visible as DPS class.today they are 5 or 6 DPS GFs in the server .With loadouts you will have dozens DPS GFs in a bleak of an eye.Think about it.

    Yeah, but how many of those "DPS GFs" understand what they're doing? Or, at least, have understanding of what they need to do?

    I betcha a lot of them are going to pick up SK Guardian's Swordmaster build and try and use it (which, no offense to SK Guardian, he has a good build idea, but I'm super worried the Conqueror GF will run into the "Lia/Laz GWF" or "SharpCW" situations, where everyone only uses the preset build but without the understanding).

    Granted, I can articulate my understanding of the GF to other people, but I can't actually force someone to understand how to GF.


    ... 18 year old incompetent 4k Il PVE GWFs that are out DPSed by utility GFs...

    Hey, I resemble that remark!

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    As for Aggro...

    I was a conqueror with 15 points into protector and had no issues with Aggro. My artifact powers were Combat Superiority and WM Strike. Bosses and adds all ran towards me with my conqueror build.

    Without using the cheese of Steel Defense immunity I had some issues on Orcus due to his high damage hits. I went full on Protector with 10 points into Tact. Running with the same group using the Protector build I now lose aggro even with marking targets and using Enhanced Threat as my artifact power.

    Since I'm still new as a Protector I will play around a bit more and run more content to see what I need to do to keep aggro. If I continue to have issues, I will probably go back to the conqueror build. Damage wise, I lost a good 25-50% of my damage as a Protector. Campaign task that took 10-15 minutes are now taking me 20-30+ minutes.



  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    @mebengalsfan#9264
    "As for Aggro...

    I was a conqueror with 15 points into protector and had no issues with Aggro. My artifact powers were Combat Superiority and WM Strike. Bosses and adds all ran towards me with my conqueror build.

    Without using the cheese of Steel Defense immunity I had some issues on Orcus due to his high damage hits. I went full on Protector with 10 points into Tact. Running with the same group using the Protector build I now lose aggro even with marking targets and using Enhanced Threat as my artifact power.

    Since I'm still new as a Protector I will play around a bit more and run more content to see what I need to do to keep aggro. If I continue to have issues, I will probably go back to the conqueror build. Damage wise, I lost a good 25-50% of my damage as a Protector. Campaign task that took 10-15 minutes are now taking me 20-30+ minutes. "

    Don't waste much more time on Protector @mebengalsfan#9264 . If you are truly from Cincinnati, you've endured enough disappointment already.

    My friends and I fought as advocates for the Protector path for 2 years. Cryptic has kept it neutered and has no interest in fixing it. The fact that the capstone remains useless after 2 years of pleading is proof enough. We gave up.

    And, If the new load out system works as it appears on preview, there will never be a reason to commit to the Protector path ever again.

    That's the main reason we pulled our Protector build from theach forum. No point now.

    Loadout 1: Rainbow Party tank mob clear
    SM Tact with points in Conq and Prot
    Loudout 2: 4DeePS Zerg Buffer Tank
    SM Tact with points in Conq
    Loudout 3: Solo/Daily
    Full SM Conq
    Loadout 4: Rainbow Party Squishy Savior
    IV Prot with points in Tact

    Sad. The pure turtle truly is dead this time.
    Scenario-based tank loadouts will now be the standard.

    To the OPs post:

    For threat, a balance of double marks, aggravating strike and moderate DPS are the way to keep aggro.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    @dread4moor
    I did not last as a protector for more than 3 days, if that. Tried CN bunch but I continued to see issues with maintaining threat. I swapped back to Conqueror and my first run in CN was very clean and I kept threat the whole time.

    I have tried Tact build but I simply did not like it. I like the build I have been using now as a Conqueror. With loadouts I may have one setup as a Conqueror and the other as a Tactician. Will wait and see how the loadouts works.
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