I mean they're already making efforts to fix SVA. I made that comment in the context of people assuming that they never were going to.
But a player that started right before the key change should've known mod 11 was hitting in a month and they would have to grind out SVA runs with dwindling interest. They were basically playing chicken with mod 11 and the dungeon key change and should've known better.
"Should've known".
Going by your reasoning, you should've known that a new module was coming and that cryptic has the right to come out with better weapons whenever they want. They can even delete your relic weapons and it will all be according to the ToS you signed when you started playing. You also knew that the farming you were doing was un-fun and long. It was YOUR choice. Right? Nobody forced it on you.
What you want, instead, is to force your choices aka "i want my relic weapons to give me an advantage over other players for a longer period of time" on other players. Your complaint is not because the prize for your "hard work" (the relic weapons) was taken away or nerfed. It was because other players could have a chance to get, at a later time, weapons as strong but actually without playing the game like a job, and mr. urabask felt like crying because he thinks that since he decided to do something long and un-fun, it should grant him an advantage for a longer period of time.
It's quite nerdish and childish (sorry to say so, but really, crying for the devs to nerf future content because you played a game like a job and you want to feel "BiS" or "elite" for longer, is quite...nerdish and childish O.o) But it looks like cryptic simply got other plans or decided to listen to the cries, so you're lucky here.
My advice is to stop playing a game like a job to cry later when your "efforts" do not give you as much advantage as you want
I mean they're already making efforts to fix SVA. I made that comment in the context of people assuming that they never were going to.
But a player that started right before the key change should've known mod 11 was hitting in a month and they would have to grind out SVA runs with dwindling interest. They were basically playing chicken with mod 11 and the dungeon key change and should've known better.
"Should've known".
Going by your reasoning, you should've known that a new module was coming and that cryptic has the right to come out with better weapons whenever they want. They can even delete your relic weapons and it will all be according to the ToS you signed when you started playing. You also knew that the farming you were doing was un-fun and long. It was YOUR choice. Right? Nobody forced it on you.
What you want, instead, is to force your choices aka "i want my relic weapons to give me an advantage over other players for a longer period of time" on other players. Your complaint is not because the prize for your "hard work" (the relic weapons) was taken away or nerfed. It was because other players could have a chance to get, at a later time, weapons as strong but actually without playing the game like a job, and mr. urabask felt like crying because he thinks that since he decided to do something long and un-fun, it should grant him an advantage for a longer period of time.
It's quite nerdish and childish (sorry to say so, but really, crying for the devs to nerf future content because you played a game like a job and you want to feel "BiS" or "elite" for longer, is quite...nerdish and childish O.o) But it looks like cryptic simply got other plans or decided to listen to the cries, so you're lucky here.
My advice is to stop playing a game like a job to cry later when your "efforts" do not give you as much advantage as you want
Yeah, I'm sure we were all supposed to assume that Cryptic would invalidate the last 6 months of content they released. The people that "should've known" were ignoring explicit communications from the devs whereas anyone that rushed the relic weapons had no such warning.
Everything about the way it was designed and advertised implied that it would be worth the effort involved. It was a +20 ilvl increase over twisted weapons at legendary when normally we only see +5 ilvl between weapon set updates.
I've never said anything about wanting an advantage over other players. That's just PvP circlejerk mentality. What I want is normal MMO progression where completing difficult content is rewarded with rewards relative to its difficulty. That's what Mod 10/10.5 were advertised and designed as. Following it up with mod 11 is basically setting a precedent where they can't be trusted to release rewards for new content that take more than a week or two to get.
Also, regardless as to what you may think about Mod 10/10.5 being unfun it's the first time in years that they've managed to not lose CCUs between content updates. You may like the short term gains in mod 11 but in the long run if they keep pulling stunts like this they're going to bleed players, including their most dedicated players.
We'll see what numbers will hit the live server - I'm aware about devs saying the item level will not change just they'll tinker with the set bonus. At the hell raised last weeks on forum things could change quite dramatically.
The patch was finalized last week. They're not making changes with all of 3 days before it goes live.
The patch was finalized last week. They're not making changes with all of 3 days before it goes live.
Wrong. Check Lifeforged set bonus tooltip. It says 10% of your defense. So it went down to 15% and now to 10%. To have a mere 5% damage increase for 10 seconds you need to stack 20k defense. It's useless compared to relics' bonus.
The set was overnerfed thanks to all the crying. Now the e-peen crybabies can be happy
Im happy too to be honest Pando. This saves me the time, trouble and wallet to grind for new weapons for yet another whole module. I will keep using my Twisted set and the devs will miss out on my money. Serves them right
The patch was finalized last week. They're not making changes with all of 3 days before it goes live.
Wrong. Check Lifeforged set bonus tooltip. It says 10% of your defense. So it went down to 15% and now to 10%. To have a mere 5% damage increase for 10 seconds you need to stack 20k defense. It's useless compared to relics' bonus.
The set was overnerfed thanks to all the crying. Now the e-peen crybabies can be happy
That happened well before I posted.
It wasn't over-nerfed because as has been said multiple times it wasn't intended for GWF.
Im happy too to be honest Pando. This saves me the time, trouble and wallet to grind for new weapons for yet another whole module. I will keep using my Twisted set and the devs will miss out on my money. Serves them right
i.e. You're passing up a 30%+ increase in damage from the weapon damage alone because overall it's a 31% increase instead of a 33% increase. OK.
The patch was finalized last week. They're not making changes with all of 3 days before it goes live.
Wrong. Check Lifeforged set bonus tooltip. It says 10% of your defense. So it went down to 15% and now to 10%. To have a mere 5% damage increase for 10 seconds you need to stack 20k defense. It's useless compared to relics' bonus.
The set was overnerfed thanks to all the crying. Now the e-peen crybabies can be happy
That happened well before I posted.
It wasn't over-nerfed because as has been said multiple times it wasn't intended for GWF.
Im happy too to be honest Pando. This saves me the time, trouble and wallet to grind for new weapons for yet another whole module. I will keep using my Twisted set and the devs will miss out on my money. Serves them right
i.e. You're passing up a 30%+ increase in damage from the weapon damage alone because overall it's a 31% increase instead of a 33% increase. OK.
Im pretty sure 3 rank12 bondings buff me way more than any new weapon currently available. Time is limited thus precious and people need to make choices how to spend it. At my build level weapons are simply not a priority. The Devs need to provide quality incentive to make me shift my focus into a pursuit of any new item. They keep throwing out these artifact weapons without much thinking and they expect me to just blindly jump into the grind? Well, those of us who jumped blindly and managed to get Relic weapons were not very happy were they? In fact they were so unhappy that they raised their voices and got mod 11 weapons nerfed. Why would I spend my game time in activities that make me unhappy only to go and complain about it on the forum later?
I think Neverwinter players have developed a very unhealthy mindset. Games are for fun, not for toiling away at it like its a 2nd job.
It wasn't over-nerfed because as has been said multiple times it wasn't intended for GWF.
Who ever mentioned GWFs? 20k defense stat is already a lot to reach even for GFs. It means that to have a 5% buff you need also to have high end gear and may be SH boons to raise your defense to 20k. Relics, instead, give a straight 10% buff with no need to stack stats.
So, in the end, you don't just have 5% less damage but you also need to stack very high amounts of stats.
Pre-module 10-10.5 the difference between a BiS and a normal player was, basically, the difference you got from an epic set to a legendary set. Now, you will have that difference PLUS the obvious, and noticeable, difference in set bonus. Which means, the gap widens. Which i'm sure is good for elitist nerds who farm their lives out of a game just to feel better/ stronger/ more elite, and then cry about new content if it does not allow them to keep the advantage.
The new artifact weapons basically settle with bonuses that give 6-7% less damage boost and add some very useless buff (unless you think that 5% defense buff is somehow a noticeable buff compared to a flat 10% incoming damage reduction or a 10% damage output increase).
The point is that with mod 10.5 the gap was so absurd that the devs could not leave it that way. They tried to push the lifeless farming/ P2W gameplay with new weapons that were absurdly stronger compared to the old sets. Some players decided to farm their lives out of the game in an un-fun way to get those weapons. Most players decided that a game must be fun to play and skipped. Then a change locked the relic weapons behind an even bigger wall. So the devs got to fix the situation somehow, and came up with mod 11 weapons. Which might have been at the same level as relics but simply "different" in bonuses to match different builds. Similar to how twisted and elemental sets were, for example. Alternatives.
But some lifeless nerd crybabies decided that since they farmed their lives out of the game/ paid much $$, and went through some un-fun content just for the sake of obtaining more powah, they deserved to feel "BiS" for longer. And cried for nerfs to the new sets.
But the point is still the same. The gap between relics and old sets was something that shouldn't have happened because it was destroying the game/ splitting the population too much (25% damage difference was absurd, it was clearly to put in-game some "must have" item that most players needed to basically pay to obtain). And nerfed mod 11 sets are just a very bad way to throw a bone to the larger community of normal players. And the truth is that it was the choice of those who farmed relics to spend hours doing something un-fun, but then they wanted the game to get shaped on their choices (we played the game in an un-fun way, like a job, and now we want the game to reward us more for that).
The fun thing is that all the items you obtain are not yours. They are cryptic's. One day you will lose them all. So you'd better play a game to have fun, instead of playing it in some un-fun way and then cry.
Nobody ever mentioned GWFs. 20k defense is a huge amount of defense even for GFs. Plus to obtain a mere 5% damage boost you need to also stack huge amounts of stats. Compared to a flat 10% modifier of the relics it's way worse.
With old sets the difference between normal players and BiS was just the difference going from an epic set to a legendary. Now you have that difference PLUS the noticeable difference in set bonus. The gap is larger now. Which makes all the lifeless nerds happy. They can feel "elite" now even more.
The point, sorry to tell you, is that the devs made a mistake with relic weapons. The gap in mod 10.5 was so big, between relics and old sets, that they could not leave it that way. It was splitting the population too much. SO what they could do was to create the new sets giving something not inferior but different, similar to how elemental and twisted sets were. You could get twisted or drowned or fire set and still have a useful set bonus. Just different.
But in this module, some nerd crybabies decided that since they DECIDED to play the game in an un-fun way to get powah, they deserved their "advantage" to last for moar. So the devs nerfed and the gap increased, even if by just a little bit.
Sad truth, sorry to be brutal. Now you can think about the next thing you will cry about when the game is not shaped based on your nerdish expectations.
The patch was finalized last week. They're not making changes with all of 3 days before it goes live.
Wrong. Check Lifeforged set bonus tooltip. It says 10% of your defense. So it went down to 15% and now to 10%. To have a mere 5% damage increase for 10 seconds you need to stack 20k defense. It's useless compared to relics' bonus.
The set was overnerfed thanks to all the crying. Now the e-peen crybabies can be happy
That happened well before I posted.
It wasn't over-nerfed because as has been said multiple times it wasn't intended for GWF.
Im happy too to be honest Pando. This saves me the time, trouble and wallet to grind for new weapons for yet another whole module. I will keep using my Twisted set and the devs will miss out on my money. Serves them right
i.e. You're passing up a 30%+ increase in damage from the weapon damage alone because overall it's a 31% increase instead of a 33% increase. OK.
Im pretty sure 3 rank12 bondings buff me way more than any new weapon currently available. Time is limited thus precious and people need to make choices how to spend it. At my build level weapons are simply not a priority. The Devs need to provide quality incentive to make me shift my focus into a pursuit of any new item. They keep throwing out these artifact weapons without much thinking and they expect me to just blindly jump into the grind? Well, those of us who jumped blindly and managed to get Relic weapons were not very happy were they? In fact they were so unhappy that they raised their voices and got mod 11 weapons nerfed. Why would I spend my game time in activities that make me unhappy only to go and complain about it on the forum later?
I think Neverwinter players have developed a very unhealthy mindset. Games are for fun, not for toiling away at it like its a 2nd job.
So basically you were never going to switch weapons no matter what they did and you're complaining because reasons.
They just gave you relic weapons basically and you're quibbling over the set bonus which is a non-consequential part of the damage increase conferred by these weapons.
Nobody ever mentioned GWFs. 20k defense is a huge amount of defense even for GFs. Plus to obtain a mere 5% damage boost you need to also stack huge amounts of stats. Compared to a flat 10% modifier of the relics it's way worse.
With old sets the difference between normal players and BiS was just the difference going from an epic set to a legendary. Now you have that difference PLUS the noticeable difference in set bonus. The gap is larger now. Which makes all the lifeless nerds happy. They can feel "elite" now even more.
The point, sorry to tell you, is that the devs made a mistake with relic weapons. The gap in mod 10.5 was so big, between relics and old sets, that they could not leave it that way. It was splitting the population too much. SO what they could do was to create the new sets giving something not inferior but different, similar to how elemental and twisted sets were. You could get twisted or drowned or fire set and still have a useful set bonus. Just different.
But in this module, some nerd crybabies decided that since they DECIDED to play the game in an un-fun way to get powah, they deserved their "advantage" to last for moar. So the devs nerfed and the gap increased, even if by just a little bit.
Sad truth, sorry to be brutal. Now you can think about the next thing you will cry about when the game is not shaped based on your nerdish expectations.
Lets be honest here, the only class that could conceivably benefit from the firesoul bonus aside from tanks is GWF. That's why Defiant was mad about the nerf. It's why you're mad about the nerf. No other class would've touched it with a ten foot pole because they have no reason to stack defense.
GFs aim for minimally 80% DR which is around 26,000 def (and ideally around 95% DR). This isn't a BiS number and frankly if you're not BiS no set bonus is going to give you as much of a damage increase as increasing your weapon damage does.
Also, stop portraying the relic (or frankly any) set bonus as a significant DPS increase. We both know it's not true.
Just wait until they make all armors and rings refinable. Cuz why not. It's definetly not a grind for no—life game, is it? And yesx it does seem like the gap is increasing between players but I simply can't understand how all of what they're doing is supposed to be new player friendly??? Finally, even though I have green relic weps (hard to get groups for those sva's these days), I am still going to get lifeforged. Personally — the best looking weps yet. And yes. An arti wep just for looks change.
Nobody ever mentioned GWFs. 20k defense is a huge amount of defense even for GFs. Plus to obtain a mere 5% damage boost you need to also stack huge amounts of stats. Compared to a flat 10% modifier of the relics it's way worse.
With old sets the difference between normal players and BiS was just the difference going from an epic set to a legendary. Now you have that difference PLUS the noticeable difference in set bonus. The gap is larger now. Which makes all the lifeless nerds happy. They can feel "elite" now even more.
The point, sorry to tell you, is that the devs made a mistake with relic weapons. The gap in mod 10.5 was so big, between relics and old sets, that they could not leave it that way. It was splitting the population too much. SO what they could do was to create the new sets giving something not inferior but different, similar to how elemental and twisted sets were. You could get twisted or drowned or fire set and still have a useful set bonus. Just different.
But in this module, some nerd crybabies decided that since they DECIDED to play the game in an un-fun way to get powah, they deserved their "advantage" to last for moar. So the devs nerfed and the gap increased, even if by just a little bit.
Sad truth, sorry to be brutal. Now you can think about the next thing you will cry about when the game is not shaped based on your nerdish expectations.
Lets be honest the only non-tank class that would benefit from the firesoul bonus is GWF. That's why you're mad about the nerf. It's why Defiant is mad about the nerf. No other non-tank class would touch it with a ten foot pole because they don't benefit from stacking defense at all.
Trying to imply that the relic weapons increased the gear gap for a significant part of the player population is ridiculous too. It only did that for near BiS players that aren't in an active guild. Anyone else was getting excluded purely on the basis of ilvl already.
Also there was no alternative to Twisted for DPS toons which is basically the spot that relic weapons are in. Except the set bonus is so terrible on all of these weapons (including the relic weapons) that it's a moot point to worry about them.
Also, GFs minimally aim for 80% DR and ideally for 95% DR. 20k def is not a BiS number, at BiS that's your def before bonding procs. With r10s you can easily hit 30k+ defense.
Wrong again. I am talking about all the new weapons. Lifeforged are just the example because it's what got nerfed due to your, and others, cries. But it's funny how your assumptions about how the game should develop and what other players want, always match your own agenda.
It's not ridiculous because, as i explained, it's exactly what happened. Relics are not an "alternative" to twisted, They are on a completely different level compared to old sets because the base damage is so much higher. Also, i didn't talk about alternatives for DPS. I said that all weapons got a useful set bonus. It means that a defensive toon using drowned would not feel weaker than a DPS toon using the twisted set, and a AP DC using the fire set would not feel weaker either. The set bonuses were all on the same level. Now, instead, you have one BiS set with a bonus that is way better than the others, and some rushed sets that have bonuses of very little use. The gap has increased. Fact. Not assumptions like yours.
Now let me quote you for the lulz:
Also, GFs minimally aim for 80% DR and ideally for 95% DR. 20k def is not a BiS number, at BiS that's your def before bonding procs. With r10s you can easily hit 30k+ defense.
Funny that you mention bondings, because those are high-end and expensive pieces of equipment that go with certain companions. But in your elitist point of view probably every player should have a few milions to throw into high level bondings (because to reach 30k you need high rank bondings). And you say 20k is base defense stat AT BiS LEVEL. So a BiS toon has 20k base and 30k when bonding procs, and non-BiS should slot expensive BiS bondings to boost their stat to 20k. Which is exactly what i wrote above.
20k defense is a huge amount of defense even for GFs. Plus to obtain a mere 5% damage boost you need to also stack huge amounts of stats. Compared to a flat 10% modifier of the relics it's way worse.
You confirmed that to make the lifeforged set bonus still worse than the relic's, you need BiS level stats as a GF. Even with bondings (very expensive), you barely reach 7,5% (still lower).
So, one set gives a flat 10% regardless of the stats, and one set requires BiS stats to give a decent boost that is still lower than relics. Exactly what i wrote above.
You only have assumptions about how much people should play, what people should do, how the game should be developed, all to match the way YOU play the game. Too bad for you in your confusion you even confirm the facts that we are mentioning.
I have yet to see a GF or a Paladin tank for that matter with 20 000 + Defense before procs.. and who even slots defense on companions? The player character with the most def Ive seen is actually a PVE HR played by @hustin1
When ITF was still buffing depending on DR I've seen a GF with(with bondings proc) 45k def(BiS ofc). However I believe no one is going that high anymore...
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
When ITF was still buffing depending on DR I've seen a GF with(with bondings proc) 45k def(BiS ofc). However I believe no one is going that high anymore...
Because most BiS players have or should have some understanding of the effective point of stats, yes. (Not that 100% of them do, but w/e.)
Wrong again. I am talking about all the new weapons. Lifeforged are just the example because it's what got nerfed due to your, and others, cries. But it's funny how your assumptions about how the game should develop and what other players want, always match your own agenda.
It's not ridiculous because, as i explained, it's exactly what happened. Relics are not an "alternative" to twisted, They are on a completely different level compared to old sets because the base damage is so much higher. Also, i didn't talk about alternatives for DPS. I said that all weapons got a useful set bonus. It means that a defensive toon using drowned would not feel weaker than a DPS toon using the twisted set, and a AP DC using the fire set would not feel weaker either.
A lot of AP DCs are keeping their burning set anyways. Only near BiS/bis players are switching to fey.
The set bonuses were all on the same level. Now, instead, you have one BiS set with a bonus that is way better than the others, and some rushed sets that have bonuses of very little use. The gap has increased. Fact. Not assumptions like yours.
And they changed them by making the set bonuses garbage even on relic. 30 second cooldowns on damage buffs are still terrible buffs. That's why it's so pointless to gripe about the set bonuses being nerfed. Relic's set bonus is terrible anyways.
Also, GFs minimally aim for 80% DR and ideally for 95% DR. 20k def is not a BiS number, at BiS that's your def before bonding procs. With r10s you can easily hit 30k+ defense.
Funny that you mention bondings, because those are high-end and expensive pieces of equipment that go with certain companions. But in your elitist point of view probably every player should have a few milions to throw into high level bondings (because to reach 30k you need high rank bondings). And you say 20k is base defense stat AT BiS LEVEL. So a BiS toon has 20k base and 30k when bonding procs, and non-BiS should slot expensive BiS bondings to boost their stat to 20k. Which is exactly what i wrote above.
The difference for better geared toons isn't that they'd hit higher defense numbers. It's that they can take more offensive stats or HP. Lesser geared GFs just have to focus more on defense.
Also, the idea that we should be talking about the difference in a set bonus for toons that don't even have bondings is stupid.
Any set bonus will make jack squat difference for a toon that isn't geared.
20k defense is a huge amount of defense even for GFs. Plus to obtain a mere 5% damage boost you need to also stack huge amounts of stats. Compared to a flat 10% modifier of the relics it's way worse.
You confirmed that to make the lifeforged set bonus still worse than the relic's, you need BiS level stats as a GF. Even with bondings (very expensive), you barely reach 7,5% (still lower).
So, one set gives a flat 10% regardless of the stats, and one set requires BiS stats to give a decent boost that is still lower than relics. Exactly what i wrote above.
IDK why you're quoting yourself. Like I said, 20k defense isn't much for a GF. It's not even hitting the DR cap.
Also, it's not a flat 10% increase. It's a flat 10% increase for ten seconds with a thirty second cooldown and you're going have the defense bonus on frequently when you don't need it unless you're using a stopwatch or some nonsense.
You only have assumptions about how much people should play, what people should do, how the game should be developed, all to match the way YOU play the game. Too bad for you in your confusion you even confirm the facts that we are mentioning.
That's what you're doing. You obviously have no idea how minuscule the difference in performance between the relic and ascendant sets would be for lesser geared toons. You're talking about something dumb like shaving a minute off a CN run if that. The weapon damage itself will make a significantly larger impact and there's no difference there.
No, actually a lot of people wanted to use Lifeforged, not just me. Look at Undefined's post. The game will not last much longer if they keep listening to people who have this Ayn Randian mindset. Games are supposed to be fun for all, not just those who feel entitled to be more powerful than others.
Comments
Going by your reasoning, you should've known that a new module was coming and that cryptic has the right to come out with better weapons whenever they want. They can even delete your relic weapons and it will all be according to the ToS you signed when you started playing.
You also knew that the farming you were doing was un-fun and long. It was YOUR choice. Right? Nobody forced it on you.
What you want, instead, is to force your choices aka "i want my relic weapons to give me an advantage over other players for a longer period of time" on other players.
Your complaint is not because the prize for your "hard work" (the relic weapons) was taken away or nerfed. It was because other players could have a chance to get, at a later time, weapons as strong but actually without playing the game like a job, and mr. urabask felt like crying because he thinks that since he decided to do something long and un-fun, it should grant him an advantage for a longer period of time.
It's quite nerdish and childish (sorry to say so, but really, crying for the devs to nerf future content because you played a game like a job and you want to feel "BiS" or "elite" for longer, is quite...nerdish and childish O.o)
But it looks like cryptic simply got other plans or decided to listen to the cries, so you're lucky here.
My advice is to stop playing a game like a job to cry later when your "efforts" do not give you as much advantage as you want
Everything about the way it was designed and advertised implied that it would be worth the effort involved. It was a +20 ilvl increase over twisted weapons at legendary when normally we only see +5 ilvl between weapon set updates.
I've never said anything about wanting an advantage over other players. That's just PvP circlejerk mentality. What I want is normal MMO progression where completing difficult content is rewarded with rewards relative to its difficulty. That's what Mod 10/10.5 were advertised and designed as. Following it up with mod 11 is basically setting a precedent where they can't be trusted to release rewards for new content that take more than a week or two to get.
Also, regardless as to what you may think about Mod 10/10.5 being unfun it's the first time in years that they've managed to not lose CCUs between content updates. You may like the short term gains in mod 11 but in the long run if they keep pulling stunts like this they're going to bleed players, including their most dedicated players.
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All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The set was overnerfed thanks to all the crying. Now the e-peen crybabies can be happy
It wasn't over-nerfed because as has been said multiple times it wasn't intended for GWF. i.e. You're passing up a 30%+ increase in damage from the weapon damage alone because overall it's a 31% increase instead of a 33% increase. OK.
I think Neverwinter players have developed a very unhealthy mindset. Games are for fun, not for toiling away at it like its a 2nd job.
20k defense stat is already a lot to reach even for GFs. It means that to have a 5% buff you need also to have high end gear and may be SH boons to raise your defense to 20k. Relics, instead, give a straight 10% buff with no need to stack stats.
So, in the end, you don't just have 5% less damage but you also need to stack very high amounts of stats.
Pre-module 10-10.5 the difference between a BiS and a normal player was, basically, the difference you got from an epic set to a legendary set. Now, you will have that difference PLUS the obvious, and noticeable, difference in set bonus. Which means, the gap widens. Which i'm sure is good for elitist nerds who farm their lives out of a game just to feel better/ stronger/ more elite, and then cry about new content if it does not allow them to keep the advantage.
The new artifact weapons basically settle with bonuses that give 6-7% less damage boost and add some very useless buff (unless you think that 5% defense buff is somehow a noticeable buff compared to a flat 10% incoming damage reduction or a 10% damage output increase).
The point is that with mod 10.5 the gap was so absurd that the devs could not leave it that way. They tried to push the lifeless farming/ P2W gameplay with new weapons that were absurdly stronger compared to the old sets. Some players decided to farm their lives out of the game in an un-fun way to get those weapons. Most players decided that a game must be fun to play and skipped. Then a change locked the relic weapons behind an even bigger wall.
So the devs got to fix the situation somehow, and came up with mod 11 weapons. Which might have been at the same level as relics but simply "different" in bonuses to match different builds. Similar to how twisted and elemental sets were, for example. Alternatives.
But some lifeless nerd crybabies decided that since they farmed their lives out of the game/ paid much $$, and went through some un-fun content just for the sake of obtaining more powah, they deserved to feel "BiS" for longer. And cried for nerfs to the new sets.
But the point is still the same. The gap between relics and old sets was something that shouldn't have happened because it was destroying the game/ splitting the population too much (25% damage difference was absurd, it was clearly to put in-game some "must have" item that most players needed to basically pay to obtain). And nerfed mod 11 sets are just a very bad way to throw a bone to the larger community of normal players.
And the truth is that it was the choice of those who farmed relics to spend hours doing something un-fun, but then they wanted the game to get shaped on their choices (we played the game in an un-fun way, like a job, and now we want the game to reward us more for that).
The fun thing is that all the items you obtain are not yours. They are cryptic's. One day you will lose them all. So you'd better play a game to have fun, instead of playing it in some un-fun way and then cry.
With old sets the difference between normal players and BiS was just the difference going from an epic set to a legendary. Now you have that difference PLUS the noticeable difference in set bonus. The gap is larger now. Which makes all the lifeless nerds happy. They can feel "elite" now even more.
The point, sorry to tell you, is that the devs made a mistake with relic weapons. The gap in mod 10.5 was so big, between relics and old sets, that they could not leave it that way. It was splitting the population too much. SO what they could do was to create the new sets giving something not inferior but different, similar to how elemental and twisted sets were. You could get twisted or drowned or fire set and still have a useful set bonus. Just different.
But in this module, some nerd crybabies decided that since they DECIDED to play the game in an un-fun way to get powah, they deserved their "advantage" to last for moar. So the devs nerfed and the gap increased, even if by just a little bit.
Sad truth, sorry to be brutal. Now you can think about the next thing you will cry about when the game is not shaped based on your nerdish expectations.
They just gave you relic weapons basically and you're quibbling over the set bonus which is a non-consequential part of the damage increase conferred by these weapons. Lets be honest here, the only class that could conceivably benefit from the firesoul bonus aside from tanks is GWF. That's why Defiant was mad about the nerf. It's why you're mad about the nerf. No other class would've touched it with a ten foot pole because they have no reason to stack defense.
GFs aim for minimally 80% DR which is around 26,000 def (and ideally around 95% DR). This isn't a BiS number and frankly if you're not BiS no set bonus is going to give you as much of a damage increase as increasing your weapon damage does.
Also, stop portraying the relic (or frankly any) set bonus as a significant DPS increase. We both know it's not true.
Trying to imply that the relic weapons increased the gear gap for a significant part of the player population is ridiculous too. It only did that for near BiS players that aren't in an active guild. Anyone else was getting excluded purely on the basis of ilvl already.
Also there was no alternative to Twisted for DPS toons which is basically the spot that relic weapons are in. Except the set bonus is so terrible on all of these weapons (including the relic weapons) that it's a moot point to worry about them.
Also, GFs minimally aim for 80% DR and ideally for 95% DR. 20k def is not a BiS number, at BiS that's your def before bonding procs. With r10s you can easily hit 30k+ defense.
But it's funny how your assumptions about how the game should develop and what other players want, always match your own agenda.
It's not ridiculous because, as i explained, it's exactly what happened. Relics are not an "alternative" to twisted, They are on a completely different level compared to old sets because the base damage is so much higher.
Also, i didn't talk about alternatives for DPS. I said that all weapons got a useful set bonus. It means that a defensive toon using drowned would not feel weaker than a DPS toon using the twisted set, and a AP DC using the fire set would not feel weaker either.
The set bonuses were all on the same level. Now, instead, you have one BiS set with a bonus that is way better than the others, and some rushed sets that have bonuses of very little use. The gap has increased. Fact. Not assumptions like yours.
Now let me quote you for the lulz:
Funny that you mention bondings, because those are high-end and expensive pieces of equipment that go with certain companions. But in your elitist point of view probably every player should have a few milions to throw into high level bondings (because to reach 30k you need high rank bondings). And you say 20k is base defense stat AT BiS LEVEL. So a BiS toon has 20k base and 30k when bonding procs, and non-BiS should slot expensive BiS bondings to boost their stat to 20k. Which is exactly what i wrote above.
You confirmed that to make the lifeforged set bonus still worse than the relic's, you need BiS level stats as a GF. Even with bondings (very expensive), you barely reach 7,5% (still lower).
So, one set gives a flat 10% regardless of the stats, and one set requires BiS stats to give a decent boost that is still lower than relics. Exactly what i wrote above.
You only have assumptions about how much people should play, what people should do, how the game should be developed, all to match the way YOU play the game.
Too bad for you in your confusion you even confirm the facts that we are mentioning.
Neverwinter Census 2017
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And they changed them by making the set bonuses garbage even on relic. 30 second cooldowns on damage buffs are still terrible buffs. That's why it's so pointless to gripe about the set bonuses being nerfed. Relic's set bonus is terrible anyways.
The difference for better geared toons isn't that they'd hit higher defense numbers. It's that they can take more offensive stats or HP. Lesser geared GFs just have to focus more on defense.
Also, the idea that we should be talking about the difference in a set bonus for toons that don't even have bondings is stupid.
Any set bonus will make jack squat difference for a toon that isn't geared. IDK why you're quoting yourself. Like I said, 20k defense isn't much for a GF. It's not even hitting the DR cap.
Also, it's not a flat 10% increase. It's a flat 10% increase for ten seconds with a thirty second cooldown and you're going have the defense bonus on frequently when you don't need it unless you're using a stopwatch or some nonsense. That's what you're doing. You obviously have no idea how minuscule the difference in performance between the relic and ascendant sets would be for lesser geared toons. You're talking about something dumb like shaving a minute off a CN run if that. The weapon damage itself will make a significantly larger impact and there's no difference there. lol. A CW stacking defense.