Cleric for DPS?

terrasight

Hi there,

in our guild we have a new young member (2500 IL) and he wants to play his cleric as DD (yeah I know...).
The only thing I can help is companions and artefacts a bit (I'm SW) because I know nothing about clerics. So I ask you guys here...

Is there a good DPS guide somewhere? I can find the typical buff/debuff only...

Thanks a lot!

putzboy78

Firstly there is nothing wrong with DO, especially as at lower power lvls. Don't let the hype be a discouragement. Don't give him a hard time. Let him enjoy the game else he will get bored and you will be short one guildie to play with.

As for DPS DC, I've never seen a guide strictly for DPS but it would most like be all Righteous Tree with feats like Astral Fury, Furious Intervention, Righteous Suffering, Living Fire, Piercing Light, Bear Your Sins, Condeming Gaze, Fire of the Gods, Avatar of the Divine (i.e. very similar to mine). The main difference is in how and when you use your powers. Where a buff/debuffer uses Breaking the Spirit and Prophecy of Doom, a DPS DC would use Forgemaster Flame, daunting light and Chains of Blazing Light (if not single target). Where a buffer would use Hallowed Ground he would probably use Flame Strike or Hammer of Fate.

He still isn't going to win paingiver over similar ilvl dps classes but he should be respectable. At the same time the team still benefits from many buffs/debuffs. It may not be his intention but there will be some buff/debuffs as the nature of the class. The end result is that he will increase your dps in an effort to increase his own, which is why he shouldn't win paingiver.

panteleelee

Tell ur friend to stop play dps DC because never find a party for dungeons.
If his like to play solo(no point) or pvp ok then.

voidgift

I'd also like to see a good dps build for DC. I'm gearing up one of my prayer alts and started grinding boons on him. The experience is horrible. Takes me 2 or 3 minutes to kill two yeties. I'll try a few of the powers you mentioned @putzboy78 , but any additional tips would be great. Only thing I am familiar with is the sliding, since I main a CW.

panteleelee

A small and quick build for dps DC, for dialys quests solo run.
Feats tree: http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,12ifu05:1000000:1000000:1zuz55v&h=0&p=anc&o=0
Powers: http://nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=2xfn:zb5o76:9f1d:9fymp,1000000:1000000:1000000:1000000&h=0&p=anc&o=0
Need to be AC and important to have a DC class artifact...
Skill use for solo.
At wills: Blessing of Battle / or Astral Seal or Sacred Flame
Class features: Divine fortune for sec u have 3 options 1) Holy Fervor for more AP to take quickly daily power 2) Annoined action for extra buff dmg on u or 3) if u want reduce recharge speed when you use dialy power on your skills use hastening light.
Daily powers: Annointed Army / Flame Strike , for me spam AA too much dmg boost and debuff dmg!
Skills: forgemaster flame / chains of blazing light / divine glow
Rotation: DONT use FF before use divinity skills, first use chains and DG in normal stage and after use 3 times the chains in divinity stage(u gain a lot AP, yes is buged!) to complete the empowered and immediately use in normal stage the FF, FF gives u 10% extra dmg when use it after u complete empowered skills.

Thats all...sry for my bad english guys...i hope to helped.

voidgift

Thanks! I got a lot yo work with here now. Really appreciate it.

panteleelee

You welcome

sharkt0pus

I had a pretty interesting build going for awhile before I put it on hiatus until I finished my AA Cleric but the basics of all Clerics are all the same so no need to go over any of that stuff.

Basically, imo, Divine Oracle is a contender as well. Being able to stack Terrifying Insight quite easily and drop a super infused Hammer down, or a simple Empowered Daunting Light can prove for some pretty awesome damage(in terms of clerics) not to mention Prophecy of Doom would be awesome if it didnt feel so bugged when I used it. Now, the downside to using DO is obvious, no AA. No Blessing of Battle. Which means no huge boost in DMG for you and your party, but this build isnt about your party.

Now, they will still get your Divine Glow buffs(even better if you got Foresight now) and when in a party, you can still use ByS for a 30% dmg boost too. Use Chains to produce Action Points and spam Hammer every 10-13 seconds, depending on your APG

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jeffslider

grrouper said:

AC seems like the buff monster but i will need to go back to DO to do a few more tests .I know with all my buffs up rotation and my companion i have been able to hit target dummies for over 2.5M in damage with empowered Daunting light as an AC . I do not think i can push that much out of my DO but will need to respect back as i have made a few adjustment in the last month. Still i think DO can and will out DPS an AC over the course of a battle. Still feel little need to use all points in righteous tree you can normally find a few advantages for you or party by spending around 10 points elsewhere and not hurt your DPS.

I've always felt a properly specc DO will beat a properly specc AC if we're talking dps race especially with brand of the sun to tag mobs. A great test to see is if you know any AC that's particularly specced into dps & not support.

I have had the big hits with my support build but only when I'm in a 'special party'. My hardest hit to date was a 12 mil Daunting light in CN when the party was as followed: (This was at least a little over 2 weeks before the mod 10 drop where you know, they made the adjustments to GF, the power share etc so at the time of this hit, it was during when everything wasn't changed)

2 AC DC's (Myself included), GF, MoF CW with the High Vizier set & a HR who spammed Longstriders.

[7/31 22:52] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Daunting Light deals 12854399 (1844817) Radiant Damage to Cthylar.

My hardest hit of daunting since all these changes & only when I'm in a special party & free to kinda be more offensive just because I can is the following

[11/23 12:17] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Daunting Light deals 6122019 (2935217) Radiant Damage to Cthylar. (In CN & on the same boss)

If I'm obviously in a typical 5 man set up where I'm the only healer or it's generally a party that I should just focus on my main game of buff/debuffs, I won't be using Daunting light, thus no big hits. I usually use Divine, Break the spirt, Chains/Astral Shield/Bastion (depending)

But for me overall, I still say even if you find an AC dps DC who 100% specced into dps, with dps companions etc, you should be able to beat them over the course of a dungeon like FBI or CN as DO dps specced (I really only consider FBI the best test)

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putzboy78

Haven't tested it but I would say even regardless of having a companion with high bonding. DO will out dps AC. Your empowered daunting might not be as high, but AC has nothing that compares to BotS. So you may not see as high of a burst from DO, you will see a higher damage over all. Also DO has Terrifying Insight which is a 16% dps increase.

Here is the build I recommended to my guild for a lvling cleric (yes its a bit old, from May, but should still stand). Which is basically DPS because in lvling you don't need to worry about party play. The intent was for those looking to farm the sigil.

nwcalc.com/index.html#/dc?b=9:zad8oa:dhg8:9awbs,13l3305:1o00000:1000000:1zu55bv&h=0&p=dvo

putzboy78

Many people don’t want to play a DC, they just want to level a DC for that sweet artifact and maybe use it for some light event farming and as extra baggage later (fyi I recommend never deleting a character, you never know if you may want it in the future and extra character slots are cheap). Anyhow, here is Amber’s guide to making a DC for the purposes of leveling.

Synopsis:
With DC it will always be easier to level as a DPS, if you level as a healer it is much more challenging and you will become a lot more reliant on a striker pet for damages and fights take a lot longer.

Race:
Dragonborn (racial bonus in wisdom & strength) if you have it
Half Elf (racial bonus in constitution & wisdom and for dilettante take con) if you don't have dragonborn
If you heard human is good, you’re wrong. The heroic feats for the DC are pretty limited and not worth the loss in base stats. There was a time this wasn't the case but tha

Initial Roll:
18 WIS 13 STR 13 CHA 10 INT 10 CON 8 DEX
Dragonborn: 20 WIS 15 STR 13 CHA 10 INT 10 CON 8 DEX
Half Elf: 20 WIS 13 STR 13 CHA 10 INT 13 CON 8 DEX

As a reference
Wisdom = base damage/heals
Strength = Crit, for a leveling cleric not that important and even for an end game cleric that can stack crit up to 100% not that important
Charisma = CA, Recharge Speed, & AP gain, since recovery is much cheaper than power/crit to stack I wouldn’t waste much on this category.
Constitution = HP
Dexterity = AOE resist/Deflect
Intelligence = Recharge Speed, once again recovery is cheap, don’t waste stats on it

Build

The focus is here is on damages (parties when leveling don’t really need heals), I also recommend trying to put at least one point in each power so you can try it and get a feel for it

Pro Tip: The feat Piercing Light is currently broken. Whether you put one point or five points into it you will receive the full 10% armor penetration

Where do I put stats as I level?
We want to focus on damages so Wisdom and Strength all the way up to the top.

Gear/Stats
This is really up to how much you want to invest in your DC.
Ensorcelled Mulhorand is expensive but makes leveling super easy (210k AD’ish)
Dragon Bone is cheaper but will only get you to lvl 60 (34K AD’ish)
XVIM set is good as leveling for neck/ring/waist but only works to lvl 60 (1.9M for full set) but has an added bonus of being account bound so you can use it on other characters you wish to level
Personally I wouldn’t waste the AD on any of that and just use what I found. Here would be my logic on a leveling DC
Offensive is more important than defense
Offense Priority = Weapon Damage > Armor Pen > Power > Recovery > Crit
Defense Priority = AC > HP > Life Steal >Defense> Deflect (consider deflect useless)

Weapon & Armor Enchants
Totally unnecessary but adjust your stats for more crit if you use vorpal/dread, keep it last if not. Soul Forge is king for armor enchantments in PVE until endgame

Companion
Whenever leveling as a ranged DPS I recommend using a defender companion
Defender Companion will take some of the aggro off of you (you don’t have to heal damage you do not take) and can give you combat advantage for more personal DPS. You don’t need pots for the damages you never received
Loyal Defender gear is relatively cheap making it fairly inexpensive to place BiS gear on your companion to increase his threat potential and his survive-ability
You get some experience with trying to keep others alive using buffs and heals in combination with you DPS powers

Boons
Guild Boons will make leveling a piece of cake, use the Power, Hit Points, and XP boons and breeze through leveling

Rotation
Your rotation will adjust as you open up new powers, but in the end here is what you want:
Class Features: Terrifying Insight and Holy Fervor
At-Will: Brand of the Sun and Lance of Faith
Daily: Flame Strike and Hallowed Ground
Encounters: Chains of Blazing Light, Daunting Light, and Divine Glow


The DC is built around a mechanic called Divinity which can be built up with at-wills. Brand of the Sun builds divinity over time while Lance of Faith builds divinity immediately. Basic philosophy is to try and use Brand of the Sun before using divinity so you can build more divinity while using up your existing supply. Use Lance of Faith to build divinity quickly

Your basic rotation is to use Chains of Blazing Light on the mobs initially as a trap and give your companion time to take agro, use divine glow on mob/companion, throw Brand of the Sun for divinity gain, and use Divinity Divine Glow on mob/companion, then two Divinity Daunting Lights on mob, then one Empowered Daunting Light on mob. With whatever is left (shouldn’t be much) try to make sure you get your divinity pool back up to full.


For Dailies while soloing you are mostly going to use Flame Strike. It does good AOE damage and has a knockback to relieve some of the agro pressure. Hallowed Ground is good for party play but you do not earn AP while it’s in effect so less useful in solo play.


Pro Tip: Chains of Blazing Light is one of the few divine encounters that give AP. You can use this for filling up your AP quickly

Conclusion:
Once again this build is intended for leveling a dc. if you decide to play the DC at end game be prepared to respec. You will want to go with a Faithful build at low ilvls but can move back to Righteous as your ilvls increase. Getting parties can be tough at low ilvls if you’re a Righteous DC but it is possible (easy in guild/alliance). Furthermore you may want to respec at end game to a more party friendly build like debuffer, Power buffer, and/or immortal healer at end game. This build is focused on making leveling easy and fun.

bvira

Even if you're fully specced for DPS you still wouldn't be able to beat other DPS classes with comparable or even lower ilvl.

Realistically speaking a pure buff DC is much more effective in group content (duh!) unless your dmg far surpasses the rest of the team, which rarely happens.

bvira

putzboy78 said:

18 WIS 13 STR 13 CHA 10 INT 10 CON 8 DEX
Dragonborn: 20 WIS 15 STR 13 CHA 10 INT 10 CON 8 DEX
Half Elf: 20 WIS 13 STR 13 CHA 10 INT 13 CON 8 DEX

According to my calculation 16 WIS 16 STR offers higher dmg than 18 WIS 13 STR under most circumstances.

jazzfong

Putz's crit is over 100% with bonding, so low str high wis is good for him.

bvira

jazzfong said:

Putz's crit is over 100% with bonding, so low str high wis is good for him.

In that case drop azures and use radiants then go for 16 WIS 16 STR just like I do.

putzboy78

lol, that's not my build, its a draft build for a lvling cleric just to get the sigil. The anticipation is that your not going to invest anything into it. Therefore it has high wisdom because you won't be stacking crit for the vorpal/dread you do not have.

Further to that, i wouldn't rebuild my dc over a couple of ability scores. Not worth the investment. My crit chance is well over 100% and I haven't bothered to get switch out azures. I still have my LoL set even though its not BIS. Im using Dragonflight armor and twisted weapons. I'm not chasing BIS, its not worth it

bvira

putzboy78 said:

lol, that's not my build, its a draft build for a lvling cleric just to get the sigil. The anticipation is that your not going to invest anything into it. Therefore it has high wisdom because you won't be stacking crit for the vorpal/dread you do not have.

Further to that, i wouldn't rebuild my dc over a couple of ability scores. Not worth the investment. My crit chance is well over 100% and I haven't bothered to get switch out azures. I still have my LoL set even though its not BIS. Im using Dragonflight armor and twisted weapons. I'm not chasing BIS, its not worth it

I mean let's get real here, if you're able to pay millions more for r12s just to be marginally better than r11s then I believe you can afford a token for a permanent ~1% dmg/heal increase, not to mention you can get it for free from the sage.

putzboy78

bvira said:

putzboy78 said:

lol, that's not my build, its a draft build for a lvling cleric just to get the sigil. The anticipation is that your not going to invest anything into it. Therefore it has high wisdom because you won't be stacking crit for the vorpal/dread you do not have.

Further to that, i wouldn't rebuild my dc over a couple of ability scores. Not worth the investment. My crit chance is well over 100% and I haven't bothered to get switch out azures. I still have my LoL set even though its not BIS. Im using Dragonflight armor and twisted weapons. I'm not chasing BIS, its not worth it

I mean let's get real here, if you're able to pay millions more for r12s just to be marginally better than r11s then I believe you can afford a token for a permanent ~1% dmg/heal increase, not to mention you can get it for free from the sage.

Maybe you didn't hear me, "that's not my build", further to that the token is a for reseting powers/feats, its not a race reroll which is required to modify your initial roll.

Also I gathered my stuff over a period of 3 years. It's not like I bought it yesterday. I have what I have by not chasing every gimic that comes out and abusing every broken mechanic that appears. Slow and steady wins the race

bvira

putzboy78 said:

Maybe you didn't hear me, "that's not my build", further to that the token is a for reseting powers/feats, its not a race reroll which is required to modify your initial roll.

Also I gathered my stuff over a period of 3 years. It's not like I bought it yesterday. I have what I have by not chasing every gimic that comes out and abusing every broken mechanic that appears. Slow and steady wins the race

My fault I totally forgot that you'd need race reroll for that. But anyway since race reroll is quite expensive so I wouldn't recommend a new player to go with a sub-optimal dice roll that he/she would have to change later on.

putzboy78

If you see what was posted, it was a build for an invoke alt and to get the dc sigil. It is not an endgame build or for anyone looking for an end game build. it was giving context to the feat and power selection recommended in that roll which is also for DPS DC because buff/debuff/healing is not needed for a lvling dc.

armadeonx

A DPS cleric is essentially a Debuff DC with full armor pen, extra crit and DPS boosting companions.

bvira

putzboy78 said:

If you see what was posted, it was a build for an invoke alt and to get the dc sigil. It is not an endgame build or for anyone looking for an end game build. it was giving context to the feat and power selection recommended in that roll which is also for DPS DC because buff/debuff/healing is not needed for a lvling dc.

Ah my apology, I've skipped the words. I thought it was a direct response to OP about DPS DC build.

panteleelee

armadeonx said:

A DPS cleric is essentially a Debuff DC with full armor pen, extra crit and DPS boosting companions.

Ofc not!
Its not the same thing.
Debuff-buff DC no need high crit or armon pen lol...need full recovery and extra power only power to share in your party and u need debuff companions like sellsword(sellsword is best for active only).

putzboy78

the main difference between a buff/debuff cleric and a dps cleric would be rotation. Extra crit can contribute to debuffs. Capping armor pen is almost unavoidable with loyal avenger gear. Companions can make a difference but its not huge. But choosing to flame strike instead of hallowed ground or shoosing to use daunting light instead of BtS. Those are choices that cross the line from buff/debuff to dps.

putzboy78 said:

The main difference is in how and when you use your powers. Where a buff/debuffer uses Breaking the Spirit and Prophecy of Doom, a DPS DC would use Forgemaster Flame, daunting light and Chains of Blazing Light (if not single target). Where a buffer would use Hallowed Ground he would probably use Flame Strike or Hammer of Fate.

armadeonx

panteleelee said:

armadeonx said:

A DPS cleric is essentially a Debuff DC with full armor pen, extra crit and DPS boosting companions.

Ofc not!
Its not the same thing.
Debuff-buff DC no need high crit or armon pen lol...need full recovery and extra power only power to share in your party and u need debuff companions like sellsword(sellsword is best for active only).

Read what I said again, this time more carefully...

And I'm talking about build, not power choices.

panteleelee

armadeonx said:

panteleelee said:

armadeonx said:

A DPS cleric is essentially a Debuff DC with full armor pen, extra crit and DPS boosting companions.

Ofc not!
Its not the same thing.
Debuff-buff DC no need high crit or armon pen lol...need full recovery and extra power only power to share in your party and u need debuff companions like sellsword(sellsword is best for active only).

Read what I said again, this time more carefully...

And I'm talking about build, not power choices.

And i say again dps DC and debuff DC not have the same build.

putzboy78

high crit is valuable to a debuff dc. crit means fire of the gods, fire of the gods means bear your sins,

Many of the debuffs are procd via attacking including condemning gaze, power of the sun.

The difference between a buff/debuff cleric and a dps cleric remains your power selection

armadeonx

Exactly so, it's your power loadout choices.

@panteleelee you said "Debuff-buff DC no need high crit or armon pen lol...need full recovery and extra power only power to share in your party and u need debuff companions like sellsword(sellsword is best for active only)."

whereas I said "A DPS cleric is essentially a Debuff DC with full armor pen, extra crit and DPS boosting companions."

I.e. I've stated that a debuff doesn't bother with RI but a DPS does. Same with Crit. And that a DPS DC goes with DPS boosting companions, obviously implying that a debuff DC doesn't - because they'd go with debuffing ones.

Obviously a debuff is not using armor pen & crit for offence slots, they'd go with power. That was implied in my answer but as the old saying goes "you can lead a horse to water...". Maybe I should put things more simply in future so you can understand them?

armadeonx

It's also worth considering the difference between improving your power to boost allies versus bringing up your RI to 60% in terms of overall group performance.

From what I can work out (looking just at power-sharing) the difference between getting more RI and getting more power is a difference of around 4k points. That's a choice between full RI on you or giving your DPS players an extra 400 power each.

As 400 power represents somewhere between 0.5% and 1% for in-combat power on a DPS or (averaging) 3% total team DPS increase, do you not think having full RI would increase your personal DPS output above this? Of course it does.

What I'm saying is that even a full debuff build should have -60% RI because it represents a net gain for the group.

People get myopically fixated on individual stats and ignore the overall impact.