One-Shotting in Epic Dungeons

gjrgamer

Just levelled a GWF to 70 and through some lucky AH purchases and Trade Bars I've got to around 2250 gear score. Tried to do some epic dungeons yesterday namely Valindras Tower and Lostmauth but was finding on Lostmauth that when it comes to fighting the bosses I was getting one-shot by everything they did.

I'm not new to MMO's and know to stay out of the red circles etc. but it seemed like if I took aggro at any point I just died - no chance to heal etc. and it even seemed to be one-shotting the tank (granted there were a fair few at around 1600 gear score, but that is apparently the minimum level?). The first guy would chuck spears and one-shot me, the scorpions normal melee attack seemed to one-shot me although Lostmauth himself seemed ok, except I often found myself the only one standing with everyone else dead and you can guess how the fight went from there...

Now, am I missing something here? Is this just a case that tanks need to tank better (with better gear) or am I missing something glaringly obvious that I should be doing? I'm trying to let tanks build aggro enough to allow me to dps but not exactly sure how long they need to solidify the aggro? Am I maybe doing too much damage for a 1600 gear score tank to hold aggro against?

Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas would be welcomed. I'm fairly sure at 2250 gear score I should be capable of doing these dungeons and not being a liability. I have started the grind to get the earth artifact weapon (8 motes so far...) so I'm going to put some effort in to get a better weapon, but I would like some thoughts on where I might be going wrong.

Many thanks!

txsnowman

2250 is fine. It's just the nature of the dungeons.

thesophmorejohn

I'm in the same boat at IL 2200 and feel like I'm doing something totally wrong as well. So any help would be appreciated for sure.

daimon15

I am DC, playing like 1 month... I have 2067 GS, and dont take one shot in Valindra.
I Just try (and finish in that try) once, take aloot time and work, but is not THAT hard.
We just stuck in the last part, where we had to repeat 4 times to finish, becouse i was doing for the first time and was lose about what realy do.

I belive you just get some bad gear, with no Health, or any investment in def.
I dont have high level dps, or other classes, but i think DPS have the most low def/hp gear and for that ones, is most hard dont get one shoted.

But i am realy new in Epics, so not sure, just talking about my experience.

spritemystic

Soulforge enchant, health stones and injury kits. With everyone learning fights this combination saves alot of headaches. Soulforge has a chance to revive you upon death, health stones give you full hp in a dime, injury kits removes you moving slower after every death. And just to put it out there alot of bosses like to spin and do frontal swipe that has no indicator. With combat advantage try to always stay behind.

slyslepkava

spritemystic said:

Soulforge enchant, health stones and injury kits. With everyone learning fights this combination saves alot of headaches. Soulforge has a chance to revive you upon death, health stones give you full hp in a dime, injury kits removes you moving slower after every death. And just to put it out there alot of bosses like to spin and do frontal swipe that has no indicator. With combat advantage try to always stay behind.

Don't stay behind Lostmauth though! His tail swipe will take away most of your health, if not all. Fight on his side.

blizzardpenguin

The listed IL requirements for things like dungeons & skirmishes are very low. You need way better gear to be somewhat competitive. I know us XB1 players, for instance, & im pretty sure PC players, have been asking for them to increase the IL requirements, but it'll probably never happen.

Another thing to keep in mind is team-comp. If you have 5 DPS on ETOS, for instance, its most likely going to be a nightmare. Having 2 healers, or 2 tanks, or 1 of each, will definitely make things easier.

Another thing to keep in mind is do the people your grouped-up with know what they're doing? Just bc you have the right team-comp, doesn't mean you will complete the skirmish/dungeon. If your stuck with a bunch of people who just spam buttons, pick encounters/dailies/passives that are useless, or people who don't know how to play their class, your doomed

FYI, epic dungeons, for instance, are designed to be difficult. The enemies do a ton of damage, so team-comp, & knowledgeable players will definitely help

mrrkmiller

blizzardpenguin#4023 said:

The listed IL requirements for things like dungeons & skirmishes are very low. You need way better gear to be somewhat competitive. I know us XB1 players, for instance, & im pretty sure PC players, have been asking for them to increase the IL requirements, but it'll probably never happen.

Another thing to keep in mind is team-comp. If you have 5 DPS on ETOS, for instance, its most likely going to be a nightmare. Having 2 healers, or 2 tanks, or 1 of each, will definitely make things easier.

Another thing to keep in mind is do the people your grouped-up with know what they're doing? Just bc you have the right team-comp, doesn't mean you will complete the skirmish/dungeon. If your stuck with a bunch of people who just spam buttons, pick encounters/dailies/passives that are useless, or people who don't know how to play their class, your doomed

FYI, epic dungeons, for instance, are designed to be difficult. The enemies do a ton of damage, so team-comp, & knowledgeable players will definitely help

This ^^^ I am 2400 and even doing 1600 req dungeons with anyone below 2k is terrible (especially if healer or tank). Same goes for the 2K dungeons. It seems that even at 2400 I still get destroyed. When I run with my guild (lots of 2800+) it is easy and they do not die. Like OP said you may get a terrible healer and tank which is usually the case. They may not have the best feats for aggro or may be wrongly spec or geared. It happens. Best thing to do is try and find a party you run with or do it with your guild. Good Luck.

gynecologist5000

As a HR 2500 Ilvl i can tell you that these dungeons were originally created as end game content when the level cap was 60 (ie 1600 Ilvl) BUT they had all the boons too. I recommend to all to atleast finish up elemental evil boons and get Ilvl of minimum 2k.

One shotting is normal if ur not a properly built tank, that's the tanks job... eat the damage, not DPS or healers job. Your tank should focus all aggro, in a correctly formed group DPS should soley focus on how burn and staying out of red aoes, healer just on heals and buffs. Learn every bosses mechanics and u will become a monster. I do elol atleast 25 a day trying to complete my set.

Hope that helps, mics help too. Don't be scared to form ur own group and spend 15 minutes getting a geared group together, it pays off when u do the dungeon four times in an hour!

angelwie

im a 2.2k IL HR, those epic dungeons take for example ELOL, would always be a nightmare on PUG, so a premade group at above of 2k IL each dps would be fine when you know what youre doing, those scorpions will always one shot everyone who isnt a tank, and for losthmauth the only one shot he uses is that red beam that can be block, the only thing you have to keep in mind on that fight is always keep your eyes on your feet and stay away from the lava,

gjrgamer

Thanks for all the tips guys, pretty much what I expected. I encountered the same tank in another dungeon and he was just over 1600 gear score, so perhaps that's why he wasn't holding aggro? Most of the PUG's I join seem to have tanks/healers at 1600 so I'm guessing people are really getting suckered by the listed gear score requirement?

I need to get myself into a decent guild and get some better geared people together.

I'm currently farming Reclamation Point to get the 100 motes (41 so far) to get an Artefact weapon which I think is the main part of my gear not up to a semi-decent level right now. Bit of a grind, but Rec Point is basically a big circle so you can get into a bit of a groove with the farming.

Hopefully by the time I've sorted an artefact weapon I'll be a bit better set in the dungeons (and so will everyone else!).

Quick question, once I've sorted an elemental artefact weapon, what is the benefit to then working towards the Twisted Set (bearing in mind at the moment normal epics are tough, let along trying Demogorgon! )? Are the Twisted weapons statistically better than the Elemental ones?

Thanks!

haterche

gjrgamer said:

Thanks for all the tips guys, pretty much what I expected. I encountered the same tank in another dungeon and he was just over 1600 gear score, so perhaps that's why he wasn't holding aggro? Most of the PUG's I join seem to have tanks/healers at 1600 so I'm guessing people are really getting suckered by the listed gear score requirement?

I need to get myself into a decent guild and get some better geared people together.

I'm currently farming Reclamation Point to get the 100 motes (41 so far) to get an Artefact weapon which I think is the main part of my gear not up to a semi-decent level right now. Bit of a grind, but Rec Point is basically a big circle so you can get into a bit of a groove with the farming.

Hopefully by the time I've sorted an artefact weapon I'll be a bit better set in the dungeons (and so will everyone else!).

Quick question, once I've sorted an elemental artefact weapon, what is the benefit to then working towards the Twisted Set (bearing in mind at the moment normal epics are tough, let along trying Demogorgon! )? Are the Twisted weapons statistically better than the Elemental ones?

Thanks!

I prefer Elemental weapons from the campaign reward because of the stats it has. Twisted weapons has recovery instead of armor pen (for TR). And i prefer the armor pen. But the Twisted set can be refined up to 140 IL and Elemental cap is 135. So the choice is yours. What do you want Recovery or some other useful stat.

gjrgamer

I'd be after the armour pen. I don't seem to have much need for recovery. It would allow me to remove enchantments that are covering armour pen and add some more power.

With the IL 140 is the weapon damage itself higher than IL135? If so, is it by a significant margin?

rapo973

It's the problem we had last year on the PC version for a short time.
It's just a matter of time: when more and more players have a decent setup, it will be a cakewalk.

haterche

gjrgamer said:

I'd be after the armour pen. I don't seem to have much need for recovery. It would allow me to remove enchantments that are covering armour pen and add some more power.

With the IL 140 is the weapon damage itself higher than IL135? If so, is it by a significant margin?

Yep.. the damage is slightly higher like... 15-20 more max damage.

sockmunkey

People need to stop focusing on IL and look at HP. There is a reason all the high end gear sets you get from seals or the campaings come with massive amounts of HP.

For squishy classes you should have around 50k health, tanks should be above 80k. For T2 dungones add another 30k.

gjrgamer

So should I swap out any +Defense enchantments for +Hit Point ones then? That might help a little maybe?

sockmunkey

There are experts who can probably explain it better. But from my experience, epic mobs make use of armor penetration as a stat. And can nulify or greatly reduce any defence you have. This make raw health a far more viable stat then defense for squishy classes. Defense works, but only if you stack enough to over come the mobs AP.

The priority for DPS classes should be health, then life steal, then defense. Tanks should focus on health and defense.

kakarot

I'm new to the game and I've created 2 character from which I can't decide on who to use because I love them both. It's between a Guardian Fighter or Hunter Ranger. Can anyone tell me if one is better than the other in the long run? I'm going for dps for now just to enjoy the game.

gjrgamer

Play either well and I'm sure you'll be appreciated! Best advice, as always, is to play what you enjoy the most.

mebengalsfan

gynecologist5000#8010 said:

As a HR 2500 Ilvl i can tell you that these dungeons were originally created as end game content when the level cap was 60 (ie 1600 Ilvl) BUT they had all the boons too. I recommend to all to atleast finish up elemental evil boons and get Ilvl of minimum 2k.



One shotting is normal if ur not a properly built tank, that's the tanks job... eat the damage, not DPS or healers job. Your tank should focus all aggro, in a correctly formed group DPS should soley focus on how burn and staying out of red aoes, healer just on heals and buffs. Learn every bosses mechanics and u will become a monster. I do elol atleast 25 a day trying to complete my set.



Hope that helps, mics help too. Don't be scared to form ur own group and spend 15 minutes getting a geared group together, it pays off when u do the dungeon four times in an hour!

Find groups that stay out of the red AoE is my biggest issue. Than I get to see in group chat, healer why didn't you heal me. I don't know, because you stood in the 1 shot area and thought I could heal that. LOL. Idiots are every where I tell you. Doesn't matter what MMO you play, they exist for the sole purpose of making games harder.

mrrkmiller

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

gynecologist5000#8010 said:

As a HR 2500 Ilvl i can tell you that these dungeons were originally created as end game content when the level cap was 60 (ie 1600 Ilvl) BUT they had all the boons too. I recommend to all to atleast finish up elemental evil boons and get Ilvl of minimum 2k.



One shotting is normal if ur not a properly built tank, that's the tanks job... eat the damage, not DPS or healers job. Your tank should focus all aggro, in a correctly formed group DPS should soley focus on how burn and staying out of red aoes, healer just on heals and buffs. Learn every bosses mechanics and u will become a monster. I do elol atleast 25 a day trying to complete my set.



Hope that helps, mics help too. Don't be scared to form ur own group and spend 15 minutes getting a geared group together, it pays off when u do the dungeon four times in an hour!

Find groups that stay out of the red AoE is my biggest issue. Than I get to see in group chat, healer why didn't you heal me. I don't know, because you stood in the 1 shot area and thought I could heal that. LOL. Idiots are every where I tell you. Doesn't matter what MMO you play, they exist for the sole purpose of making games harder.

ROFL!!! So true. A tank should take the bulk of the damage, but when it is a giant red AOE circle. Yeah he cannot absorb that himself!!

armadeonx

sockmunkey said:

There are experts who can probably explain it better. But from my experience, epic mobs make use of armor penetration as a stat. And can nulify or greatly reduce any defence you have. This make raw health a far more viable stat then defense for squishy classes. Defense works, but only if you stack enough to over come the mobs AP.



The priority for DPS classes should be health, then life steal, then defense. Tanks should focus on health and defense.

If your DR is below the enemy's RI then you'll always take more damage as you'll mitigate nothing. Most bosses have an RI of 15% (I believe) so you should get your RI to just over that as a priority. It won't stop you getting 1-shot from some attacks but without it you'll get 1 or 2 shot by lesser hits. After that, the more DR you have, the more you'll mitigate.

For health you should focus on good armor - e.g. dragonflight gives very good HP but unless you have a specific build & know what you're doing, you shouldn't stack it with enchantments. Lifesteal is good, especially for squishier classes as they generally have a fast rate of fire and good RI (lifesteal has a % chance of triggering & will return your damage output back as health - low dmg = low return).

Defence only really starts to shine in epic dungeons once you get past 60% RI so my basic rule for my non-tank characters is 'get DR above the baseline then stack lifesteal - and wear (mostly, depending on class) dragonflight'.

gjrgamer

Managed to get my 100 motes and sorted the earth artefact weapon and sword knot. Will look to power them up a bit once the 2x Refinement Points event starts tonight (good timing!). Hopefully that will push my score above 2250. I've swapped out some +defense enchantments for the +920 hit points ones and will try and get some of those refined tonight too and push for some more hit points.

What is the % I need to reach with Armour Penetration? Is it 60% base armour pen?

jaime4312

null
Swapping your defense enchantments for hp ones will make your 1 shot problem even worse as you'll be squishier.

gjrgamer

Is it possible to be squishier than 1 shot by everything?

Seriously though, one of the above posters suggested hit points being the issue and that +defense is generally more important for the tanks than the dps as dps/healers are unlikely to be able to get the +def they would need to make it enough of a use to them as a main stat. + hit point theory being you have a cushion so you can take the odd hit or two.

chadworth66

Gear is not that important only the hp starting out. If you don't have a DC healer dropping Astral shield on the ground(gold ring) or a gf tank using Knights Valor it will be harder. Both tanks and healers need to have damage resistance buffs for groups at low ilvls. At high ilvls the tanks and healers will get their dailies up super quick and just spam them making the party invulnerable for half the fight at least. I recommend stacking hp early on till you feel you are not being 1 shotted anymore. Also save your unstoppable until it's full for 30% damage resistance. There's a feat on the bottom skill tree that gives up to 15% damage resistance just like a normal negation so make sure to get that.

gjrgamer

Yeah I grabbed that feat for the damage resist and I also grabbed the Negation enchantment (still early days so just the normal level one). I've also now go the Earthen artifact weapon set so that should give me some additional damage resist in instances where I stand still for a while. Going for a big push on my artifact (weapon and normal artifacts) with this 2x event tonight so will try and push my stats up further. Whatever I can do to make sure I can pull my weight in dungeons.

thefabricant

*Sigh* For the most part, monsters in epic dungeons have 15% RI. There are some exceptions, like phase spiders and assassin drakes, but most monsters (including bosses) follow that rule. Now, your RI is completely independent from the equation, that deals with your offensive capabilities. Until you have stacked a bit over 120k HP, HP will in almost all circumstances, always be more efficient than defense.

If you are interested in a more technical analysis of this, check out this.

ravenskya

Make sure you are working the campaigns for your boons - they REALLY help out a lot. Also though it won't help with getting one shotted, having the right mix of characters will help with completions of the epics.

kinganuthin

Dps gear just isn't going to have enough def to do squat. Don't slot it, ever. HP and deflect rating is what you want. Deflect rating is good. It is your defence.
Don't stand facing a boss face to face, ever. Drop what you are doing, and move.
If a boss face is 12:00, be 4 or 8..