I enjoy augments because they allow me to go stealth and not pull random aggro
Well just let it be know then that you are up to 185% less effective than people running around with a Companion.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
I enjoy augments because they allow me to go stealth and not pull random aggro
Well just let it be know then that you are up to 185% less effective than people running around with a Companion.
You can be effective without a comp+bondings, the mentality that u are a waste of space if not rolling bonds is what creates pipevision towards gear and lack of how to be effective without being BIS in the first place.
Seen enough of players who roll with bonds and they: die constantly, dont use party buffs, focus personal dps, dont have selfheals, etc. simply put run with minimal class knowledge and pisspoor builds, hoping gear will sort it out.
bonds+comp=efficiency, NO, how to use them with your class and build, thats efficient.
Bonds and comps, like other gear, are efficient only when you know your class, build and gameplay to go with it. Then you know what gear and stats to use to make you more efficient.
With gear you need to have knowledge to get the best out of it, it might be BIS gear, but if ya cant pull the potential out of it its just that, BIS gear, and not efficient to you or your party.
Saw an eager GWF wielding bonds in CN today, i just told the tank and healer to let him run ahead and if he dies dont res him. Didnt take too many deaths for him to fall in line and let the tank go first and take the aggro.
A toon with an augment and who knows hes/hers class and build is way more efficient than a bonding wielding player who has no idea how to play his/hers class and build.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited October 2016
That GWF was just chasing Paingiver. The same can be said of someone running with an augment but then he will be even less effective than one with comp+bondings - imo @wdj40 has it right, all the knowledge/skill in the world is not going to help you make up the 185% lost by running augment over R12 Bondings. That is the reality of the situation until the devs decide to rework/nerf/fix Bondings. It's just too powerful in its current state.
Post edited by lirithiel on
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I enjoy augments because they allow me to go stealth and not pull random aggro
Well just let it be know then that you are up to 185% less effective than people running around with a Companion.
You can be effective without a comp+bondings, the mentality that u are a waste of space if not rolling bonds is what creates pipevision towards gear and lack of how to be effective without being BIS in the first place.
Seen enough of players who roll with bonds and they: die constantly, dont use party buffs, focus personal dps, dont have selfheals, etc. simply put run with minimal class knowledge and pisspoor builds, hoping gear will sort it out.
bonds+comp=efficiency, NO, how to use them with your class and build, thats efficient.
Bonds and comps, like other gear, are efficient only when you know your class, build and gameplay to go with it. Then you know what gear and stats to use to make you more efficient.
With gear you need to have knowledge to get the best out of it, it might be BIS gear, but if ya cant pull the potential out of it its just that, BIS gear, and not efficient to you or your party.
Saw an eager GWF wielding bonds in CN today, i just told the tank and healer to let him run ahead and if he dies dont res him. Didnt take too many deaths for him to fall in line and let the tank go first and take the aggro.
A toon with an augment and who knows hes/hers class and build is way more efficient than a bonding wielding player who has no idea how to play his/hers class and build.
No idea why all this came out, bit of a long post for something irrelevant.
It is just down to pure maths, I could not care whether the player is good or bad, I don't mean that in a bad way. But the most your will get out of an Augment is 100% of the stats, 15% extra if you have a Legendary Companion in your actives, possibly 9-10% more from a Defensive Enchant or whatever.
Companions send over 285% of their stats at 3 x Rank 12 Bondings... Blows the stats sent over via an Augment out of the water AND 15% extra from a Legendary active.
It is not even a contest and Augments need buffing or something to make them viable.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Bondings/summoned pets are the progession from augments. Noone is demanding a buff for past weapons used...that would stifle progression. Quit complaining and do what everyone else that works to min/max does and progress to the next level.
Bondings/summoned pets are the progession from augments. Noone is demanding a buff for past weapons used...that would stifle progression. Quit complaining and do what everyone else that works to min/max does and progress to the next level.
Who the heck are you talking to?
Would help if you quoted whoever you were actually speaking to.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
To everyone that thinks that Augments should be buffed or Bondings nerfed. If the shoe fits.....
No need to get testy
It's gonna happen at some point so get ready for it
If you really think that augments are entry level then I dunno. If that were the case they would be way cheaper than combat companions and Cryptic wouldn't bother bringing out new ones. better brace yourself because I have a feeling Bondings will be adjusted during Mod 10.5...
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Anyone that thinks that Augments will be brought up or Bondings nerfed down to where those that have augments will be at parity with those that have Bondings are kidding themselves. Notice that I am not saying that Bondings should not be adjusted, I am simply pointing out that those peeps that are screeming for parity are doing so just because they do not want to UPGRADE.
We paid for what we get i suppose. Augments gives 100% stat boost for 500k or less, while one R12 bonding runestone gives 95% for a cost much higher than 500k ( probably millions consider marks & refinement) not to mention the RNG involved. Because the effort is so much harder to get one R12, making augment better or equal to bonding is not very fair.
Regarding content balance, i think Mimicking is right. The stat given by companion equipment and runestone are the one that should be toned down.
From my rough calculations a character would have to spend at least 10 mil to get an artifact to max but the stat bonuses aren't even close to what you would have got if you'd spent that on bonding rune stones instead.
I feel that this should change; dungeons have item level requirements but item level has almost no actual effect at 70. I mean if a 2500 il character with max bonding stones and good equipment on the companion was in a dungeon with a 3000 il person of the same class who had none of that, who do you think would do better?
Obviously that probably wouldn't happen but the fact is it can and this isn't right. The whole game up until 70 companions did decent dmg on there own without expensive equipment and if you wanted more power (I don't mean the stat) you'd get better items for yourself. And that's the way i feel it should be.
Have I ever told you I'm a genius?
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Cryptic doesn't give a continental how much people spent on stuff that gets nerfed in the end, just how much they make out of it in the long run. Past experience has taught us that. R12 Bondings are the single most powerful items in the game at the moment and because of that they will be adjusted at some point in the not too distant future. I predict it will happen sometime in Mod 10.5 or Mod 10b as Sharp likes to refer to it as.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
I got 3xrank 12, but that doesn´t change the fact , that those stones are the only choice to go for bcause they double to triple your damage compared to an augment on a maxed companion. This is by sure overpowered and they aalready wrote that they will care about it, maybe with next GWF rework. Maybe in 6-12 month maybe later
I miss augments. With the last changes to bondings, it was no longer "competitive" to continue with a Black Dragon Ioun Stone.
I got 3xrank 12, but that doesn´t change the fact , that those stones are the only choice to go for bcause they double to triple your damage compared to an augment on a maxed companion. This is by sure overpowered and they aalready wrote that they will care about it, maybe with next GWF rework. Maybe in 6-12 month maybe later
I miss augments. With the last changes to bondings, it was no longer "competitive" to continue with a Black Dragon Ioun Stone.
This is the exact reason I would like to see Augments more competitive, I mean some of them are extremely cute to have around and play the game with. But at the moment I just cannot use any of mine (just gathering dust in my bank) due to having 3 Rank 12 Bondings... No point in going back to an Aug now, gutted
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
I'm still disappointed to this day that I wasted zen to buy Ioun Stone of Allure on both my HRs. I also have access to Ioun Stone of Radiance on my account and Ioun Stone of Might, which I prefer to all other augments. But yeah they are currently taking up valuable space in my companion tab. I would delete the Radiance ones but I paid AD to upgrade them a long time ago Would be nice to use augments again without gimping myself.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
U guys could still use it if u want. I am using greater bronzewood instead of my perfect vorpal just because i like butterflies and leaves coming out of it. Sometime i summon my fawn without bonding in PUG just because it looks cute and it still turn out fine. Unless if the party is really bad or my dps is needed, only then i switch back to my bondings. In premade it is even easier. Things die so fast that it doesnt matter if i put in extra dps. So dont let the chart stop u from doing what u want.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Bad experiences in pugs lead me to not wanting to do such things. Atm it's all about time efficiency as I have plenty of toons that need to get rid of their stored-up AD from invoking. Mucking about with companions that look "cute" just leads to runs taking longer and wasting valuable time. I pugged eSoT today and that took way longer than planned - and that was with my best set-up.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
You seem to forget, that an active companion can proc protectors friendship and protectors cameraderie. The difference between bondings and augment is way more, then 185%.
BTW the super experienced perfectly build guy with augment might outdps the ptw noob with R12 bondings, but the same guy with bondings instead of an augment and with the same skill will do more dmg. Gear is not the same as skill, but neither is everybody with bad gear a good players. My own experience shows, that most players who spent time learning their class mechanics spent time gearing up, too.
You seem to forget, that an active companion can proc protectors friendship and protectors cameraderie. The difference between bondings and augment is way more, then 185%.
BTW the super experienced perfectly build guy with augment might outdps the ptw noob with R12 bondings, but the same guy with bondings instead of an augment and with the same skill will do more dmg. Gear is not the same as skill, but neither is everybody with bad gear a good players. My own experience shows, that most players who spent time learning their class mechanics spent time gearing up, too.
The players who spent time gearing up mostly just have a better understanding of there class because of how much time needs to be invested to get those items. There's usually not much to learn that anyone who looked up a good build wouldn't know though, well except good dodge/block timing i suppose.
But the thing is with how the game is currently set up at 70 there is no reason to get better items for yourself past some easy to obtain epic stuff. You really only need, companion stuff, mount stuff, and guild stuff. Anything else will give bonuses in comparison that are so small that it'd be a waste unless you had nothing else to do with the AD anyways.
Also I'm wondering what some of you 4k+ item level people did first; go for equipment or bonding stones? Unless you got that il before they had those i guess.
You seem to forget, that an active companion can proc protectors friendship and protectors cameraderie. The difference between bondings and augment is way more, then 185%.
BTW the super experienced perfectly build guy with augment might outdps the ptw noob with R12 bondings, but the same guy with bondings instead of an augment and with the same skill will do more dmg. Gear is not the same as skill, but neither is everybody with bad gear a good players. My own experience shows, that most players who spent time learning their class mechanics spent time gearing up, too.
The players who spent time gearing up mostly just have a better understanding of there class because of how much time needs to be invested to get those items. There's usually not much to learn that anyone who looked up a good build wouldn't know though, well except good dodge/block timing i suppose.
But the thing is with how the game is currently set up at 70 there is no reason to get better items for yourself past some easy to obtain epic stuff. You really only need, companion stuff, mount stuff, and guild stuff. Anything else will give bonuses in comparison that are so small that it'd be a waste unless you had nothing else to do with the AD anyways.
Also I'm wondering what some of you 4k+ item level people did first; go for equipment or bonding stones? Unless you got that IL before they had those i guess.
On my alts I upgrade bondings and the enchants used on the companion to R12 before I upgrade the chars anymore. I upgraded artifact gear (1st mainhand), artifacts and enchants to R9+ before bondings were an issue.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited October 2016
Remember that Bondings are still fairly new to NW in the greater scheme of things. It's one of the more recent things I invested in after getting my Enchants to R9 and weapon enhancement to Perfect because those took a lot more investment. I did nothing else during the last double refinement event but upgrade some R9s to R10s because it's a major roadblock in my progression. I really wish they'd revisit the upgrading process from R7 to R10 because needing one of the same to progress to the next level really is a PITA.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited October 2016
.....
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Unless you got that il before they had those i guess.
Yes. And I think they should re-work the stats to show all of those things as well. Back in the old times (before mod 7) we didn't have mount stuff, guild stuff and fancy schmancy new bondings to proc comaraderie. Now get off my lawn!
Bondings have always been a thing. They just did not become popular until people found out you could abuse them with Warlock and Lightfoot.
I checked the wiki page and the date on that page says April 2015, which would suggest it has not been always been a thing. Wasn't it introduced in Mod 6?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
IIRC they were introduced in Mod4 but hadn't really taken off when I quit in Oct of '14. I think Zen companions were the only way to get them and those are lessers?
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Comments
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Seen enough of players who roll with bonds and they: die constantly, dont use party buffs, focus personal dps, dont have selfheals, etc. simply put run with minimal class knowledge and pisspoor builds, hoping gear will sort it out.
bonds+comp=efficiency, NO, how to use them with your class and build, thats efficient.
Bonds and comps, like other gear, are efficient only when you know your class, build and gameplay to go with it. Then you know what gear and stats to use to make you more efficient.
With gear you need to have knowledge to get the best out of it, it might be BIS gear, but if ya cant pull the potential out of it its just that, BIS gear, and not efficient to you or your party.
Saw an eager GWF wielding bonds in CN today, i just told the tank and healer to let him run ahead and if he dies dont res him. Didnt take too many deaths for him to fall in line and let the tank go first and take the aggro.
A toon with an augment and who knows hes/hers class and build is way more efficient than a bonding wielding player who has no idea how to play his/hers class and build.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
It is just down to pure maths, I could not care whether the player is good or bad, I don't mean that in a bad way. But the most your will get out of an Augment is 100% of the stats, 15% extra if you have a Legendary Companion in your actives, possibly 9-10% more from a Defensive Enchant or whatever.
Companions send over 285% of their stats at 3 x Rank 12 Bondings... Blows the stats sent over via an Augment out of the water AND 15% extra from a Legendary active.
It is not even a contest and Augments need buffing or something to make them viable.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Would help if you quoted whoever you were actually speaking to.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
No need to get testy
If you really think that augments are entry level then I dunno. If that were the case they would be way cheaper than combat companions and Cryptic wouldn't bother bringing out new ones. better brace yourself because I have a feeling Bondings will be adjusted during Mod 10.5...
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Regarding content balance, i think Mimicking is right. The stat given by companion equipment and runestone are the one that should be toned down.
I feel that this should change; dungeons have item level requirements but item level has almost no actual effect at 70. I mean if a 2500 il character with max bonding stones and good equipment on the companion was in a dungeon with a 3000 il person of the same class who had none of that, who do you think would do better?
Obviously that probably wouldn't happen but the fact is it can and this isn't right. The whole game up until 70 companions did decent dmg on there own without expensive equipment and if you wanted more power (I don't mean the stat) you'd get better items for yourself.
And that's the way i feel it should be.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
BTW the super experienced perfectly build guy with augment might outdps the ptw noob with R12 bondings, but the same guy with bondings instead of an augment and with the same skill will do more dmg. Gear is not the same as skill, but neither is everybody with bad gear a good players. My own experience shows, that most players who spent time learning their class mechanics spent time gearing up, too.
But the thing is with how the game is currently set up at 70 there is no reason to get better items for yourself past some easy to obtain epic stuff. You really only need, companion stuff, mount stuff, and guild stuff. Anything else will give bonuses in comparison that are so small that it'd be a waste unless you had nothing else to do with the AD anyways.
Also I'm wondering what some of you 4k+ item level people did first; go for equipment or bonding stones? Unless you got that il before they had those i guess.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.