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GWF's Sprint is not ignoring speed reducing effects.

icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
edited July 2016 in Bug Reports (PC)
GWF's Sprint says "While Sprinting you temporarily ignore speed reducing effects", but when TR Courage Breaker us sprint is not doing what its suppose to do, we become really slow regardless we sprint or not, its suppose to temporarily ignore the speed reducing effects if we sprint.


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Comments

  • scathiasscathias Member Posts: 1,174 Arc User
    If you get a few daggers chucked at you while under CB you can't ignore that slow effect either and you end up being stopped completely with zero movement possible
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  • vcekvcek Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Courage breaker ignores all forms of immunity/dodges. You can even do courage breaker on a GWF while Unstoppable and casting Avalanche of Steel. Courage breaker probably needs a cooldown or an interruptable casting animation, or simply respect* immunities.
    Post edited by vcek on
  • xgrandz02xgrandz02 Member Posts: 702 Arc User
    But the Point is with dodge's ( like teleport,rolle etc,) You "CAN STILL Moving forward",from one point to other.
    We as GWF,we just "Stuck on Place" whit no chance of moving, (concrete shoes)

    Simply because Sprint is not a dodge ability"- we know it, the devs know it but no one cares..
    <::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
  • zibadawazibadawa Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User
    It's right there in the name: Courage Breaker.

    It's not breaking your knees, or your legs, or you speed as an abstract. It's breaking your courage.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Yet again people asking for other class nerfs
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  • someonediessomeonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User

    Yet again people asking for other class nerfs

    asking for nerfs? lel
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  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    GWF sprint and SW shadow slip lag behind, in general. Not talking about overall class balance here, just comparing shift mechanics.
    GWF and SW shift should be a higher % of DR, 50% for example, on a different layer. Then tone down their self heals at higher iLvL values. Also must consider how some classes like TRs or CWs with faster stamina regeneration, end up with enough full dodges to match the entire duration of a sprint or normal shadow slip.
    This bad design of shadow slip and sprint leads to some very bad PvP mechanics.
    One example is shocking execution oneshotting these classes through shift, no matter what. And another is the fact that a CB'ed CW or DC or HR can still dodge, while these classes have, again, 0 defenses to counter the daily. Another again is the fact that a BiS DPS GFcan still deal a ton of damage to a GWF or SW even if they perfectly time their sprint/shadow slip.

    Sprint and Shadow Slip in the end work only as a tool to increase or decrease distance gap, while their relevance as a defensive tool is close to zero, currently.

    When rebalancing GWFs and SWs, i would make their shift DR on a separate layer similar to GF's shield DR, to make them really count when it comes to reducing incoming damage, and then tone down/ rework the rest of the class.
    In fact, while other classes can increase their survivability a lot through a good use of their dodge mechanics, SW and GWF are the only classes that get survivable only at high iLvL through life steal and self heals, making them the most gear-dependent classes, almost immortal, but only at very, very high gear levels.

    If you want to fix these classes, you must first give them a proper shift tool.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Courage breaker is working as intended vs sprint.
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  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    It should not allow a GWF to sprint but it should not work if you use it on a sprinting (dodging) target. It's pure common sense when talking about mechanics. GWFs have monster damage but TRs can still tank them thanks to a working dodge, fast stamina regeneration, high deflect severity and ITC+smoke bomb.
    On the other side, Shocking Execution and Courage Breaker just hit at full force on GWFs and SWs no matter what. You can just close your eyes and press the button. It's a flawed interaction between classes. It's not about balance but about mechanics.
    Powers that hit at 100% full force no matter what have no place in an action mmorpg. No excuses. Before you balance these classes, you must fix such broken mechanics. There's no excuse for powers that hit 2 classes through their shift mechanic, making it impossible for them to dodge/ counter the enemy attacks.
  • vcekvcek Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 127 Arc User
    pando83 said:

    It should not allow a GWF to sprint but it should not work if you use it on a sprinting (dodging) target.

    I agree with this, but again this works on all classes similarly. If you hit any dodging class it still affects them although THEY DODGED IT. That's why IMO CB is broken and sprint/shadow slip is fine

  • szejhuludpuchaczszejhuludpuchacz Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    vcek said:

    pando83 said:

    It should not allow a GWF to sprint but it should not work if you use it on a sprinting (dodging) target.

    I agree with this, but again this works on all classes similarly. If you hit any dodging class it still affects them although THEY DODGED IT. That's why IMO CB is broken and sprint/shadow slip is fine

    How its fine? I mean you can dodge while being under CB effect. SW/GWF shift mechanic not allow them move like that. Its kinda CB->dc sigil pop->SE on immobilized target. Dodge class still can avoid SE in this rotation, non-dodge probably will get one-shot.
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  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    The issue is that courage breaker adjusts to the speed you are traveling at. So if you CB someone while they are running normally then it should only reduce that speed so that when they sprint/slip they move faster. However CB auto adjusts to the new speed so that you move at the same speed and when sprint/slip is exhausted you can't move at all. CB should not auto adjust to your movement speed at all.
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  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
    It also shouldn't stack with other slows imho.
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  • brun2000brun2000 Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    pando83 said:

    TL

    You are complaining about a class that is balanced from a standpoint of a class that is broken, what is your problem? Can't deal with one CB or SE from TR once in a while? Its a daily power, TR's have low AP generation and I still have to deal with your HAMSTER damage all day! You know what it is like dealing 300dmg/hit on GWF's? Noone can kill them! You know what is like for a TR to be taking 4k/hit while in ITC from a GWF? Its REALLY anoying! Honestly, shocking execution right now is the saviour, it can still kill those defence stackers that have more than 120% damage resistance and noone can do HAMSTER about it. You know what is it like trying to compete with a GWF on dungeons? No you don't, GWF have it easy, just deal 4kk IBS and DONE mobs dead, lets keep going. When criptic decides to fix GWF to a balanced state I will accept a change to other classes to make you feel better. Meanwhile, you really can't complain, you have it much better than us.

    Have a nice day.
  • brun2000brun2000 Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    NVM
    Post edited by brun2000 on
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    we are talking about Sprint is not ignoreing speed reducing effects, it should by design ignore all speed reducing effects, such as Courage Breaker, we are not talking about Shocking Exectution.

    Btw Couragr Breaker can be casted every 6-8 seconds on high Recovery AP gain TRs and the effect lasts 10+ seconds, which means on SW, GWF and GF they can be slowen 100% of the time not being able to really move. We have also tested with 280 movement speed and we still canot move nor defend ourselves, its either couragr breaker that needs to be revised or GWF should be able to ignore the speed reducing effects whie sprinting.
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    brun2000 said:

    ...

    You sound quite uninformed.
    If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't say it's "every once in a while" and "it's a daily power". Even rocks in the PvP community know that current META TR build can spam dailies like SE and CB even faster than encounters. Icy and others wrote about that too, and you should read carefully. I suppose you're new to the game/ can't use your class to its full potential?

    I also stated that from an end-game point of view, the issue is not if TRs are overpowered or not, but the mechanics. You can't have a class spamming dailies that also ignore immunities and other classes' defensive tools.

    In this situation the discussion is simple: by tooltip, GWF sprint should allow the class to overcome slow effects for a short period of time. CB is supposed to ignore CC immunity but the other players already explained how it does not work as intended in both the amount of slow effect applied to the target and the fact that it overcomes sprint/ shadow slip.

    Also: the "but these dailies are the only way for TRs to fight" argument is invalid. If you want your class to fight better you ask for proper buffs, not for broken mechanics to not be fixed.
  • brun2000brun2000 Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    pando83 said:

    brun2000 said:

    ...

    ...
    You are the only uninformed here mate, it is not broken, it is working as intended, it says in the ability's description that it will slow you even if the target is imune to control effects, what this means is exactly what happens and believe me, the ability would be absolutely useless if it didn't do that, GWF are not the only ones affected by it, everyone is, everyone is equal! Even TR's get that effect and can't use ITC on it, for example. I see what you want to say, blah blah, we have no dodge... well you have an ability that gives you tons of defence and you have cc to counter it. Even if they smoke you, you can fight back with cc to gain time.
    BTW, I play TR since basicly beta and I have gone past every stage of TR as it was and as it is and I can tell you this: That's not broken at all. We have gone past so many nerfs to the class that we basicly have half of our ability pool rendered useless, because of people like you that call broken to everything. I admit there were times that things were out of hand, but really, TR's now are basically hit and run and its no fun cause you'll die for the ITC nerf.

    Deal with it.
  • someonediessomeonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    brun2000 said:

    pando83 said:

    brun2000 said:

    ...

    ...
    You are the only uninformed here mate, it is not broken, it is working as intended, it says in the ability's description that it will slow you even if the target is imune to control effects, what this means is exactly what happens and believe me, the ability would be absolutely useless if it didn't do that, GWF are not the only ones affected by it, everyone is, everyone is equal! Even TR's get that effect and can't use ITC on it, for example. I see what you want to say, blah blah, we have no dodge... well you have an ability that gives you tons of defence and you have cc to counter it. Even if they smoke you, you can fight back with cc to gain time.
    BTW, I play TR since basicly beta and I have gone past every stage of TR as it was and as it is and I can tell you this: That's not broken at all. We have gone past so many nerfs to the class that we basicly have half of our ability pool rendered useless, because of people like you that call broken to everything. I admit there were times that things were out of hand, but really, TR's now are basically hit and run and its no fun cause you'll die for the ITC nerf.

    Deal with it.
    > TR's now are basically hit and run
    up to 80% deflect && 85% deflection severity + maxed "Master Infighter"

    > I see what you want to say, blah blah, we have no dodge...
    we don't have proper "shift" dodge

    > well you have an ability that gives you tons of defence and you have cc to counter it.
    lies

    > Deal with it.

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  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    Please stick to the topic, our bug report here is about GWF's sprint clearly indicates "While Sprinting You temporarily ignore speed reducing effects", however while we get hit by skills such as Courage Breaker, it is NOT ignoring speed reducing effects.

    You can have your opinion whether Courage Breaker is working as intended or not on a different discussion, but what we are talking about is GWF's sprint mechanic not working as designed, it SHOULD ignore speed reducing effects while we sprint, thank you.
    brun2000 said:

    pando83 said:

    brun2000 said:

    ...

    ...
    You are the only uninformed here mate, it is not broken, it is working as intended, it says in the ability's description that it will slow you even if the target is imune to control effects, what this means is exactly what happens and believe me, the ability would be absolutely useless if it didn't do that, GWF are not the only ones affected by it, everyone is, everyone is equal! Even TR's get that effect and can't use ITC on it, for example. I see what you want to say, blah blah, we have no dodge... well you have an ability that gives you tons of defence and you have cc to counter it. Even if they smoke you, you can fight back with cc to gain time.
    BTW, I play TR since basicly beta and I have gone past every stage of TR as it was and as it is and I can tell you this: That's not broken at all. We have gone past so many nerfs to the class that we basicly have half of our ability pool rendered useless, because of people like you that call broken to everything. I admit there were times that things were out of hand, but really, TR's now are basically hit and run and its no fun cause you'll die for the ITC nerf.

    Deal with it.
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Courage breaker is working as intended.
    Stop This QUASI Petition To Have More TR Skills nerfed.
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  • brun2000brun2000 Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    icyphish said:

    Please stick to the topic, our bug report here is about GWF's sprint clearly indicates "While Sprinting You temporarily ignore speed reducing effects", however while we get hit by skills such as Courage Breaker, it is NOT ignoring speed reducing effects.

    You can have your opinion whether Courage Breaker is working as intended or not on a different discussion, but what we are talking about is GWF's sprint mechanic not working as designed, it SHOULD ignore speed reducing effects while we sprint, thank you.


    brun2000 said:

    pando83 said:

    brun2000 said:

    ...

    ...
    ...
    Alright, so let me show you that it is working as intended and is not a "bug".
    Quote from the wiki:
    Courage Breaker - Shatter your enemy's courage, slowing their movement speed and lowering their attack damage by 30% even if they are immune to control effects. In addition, your Power is temporarily increased by 25%.

    Sprint - Enhances your Run Speed allowing you to rush targets or avoid attacks. While Sprinting you temporarily ignore crowd control effects and take 30% reduced damage.

    The key sentence here is "even if they are immune to control effects", wich means it is going to be treated as a different kind of "crowd control", it is one that cannot be dodge by anything, this includes dodging from shift dodges AND sprints of every class.

    Case closed?
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    please read the screen shot I posted in the first thread, your WIKI is outdated.

    Then again, CB can be working as intended but Sprint should ignore the speed reducing effect. thank you.
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Sprint ignores all other speed reducing effects except courage breaker. Why?

    Because courage breaker states that it bypasses all anti speed reducing effects.

    It is working as intended.

    It's simple greater than less than logic...
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  • barthanbarthan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 73 Arc User
    That's all they every do is complain about tr. Now they have see invisibility rings are tab key is useless in most cases. This game is supposed to have the best d n d experience but yet has the worst coding possible. The gwf use of stacking insignias with epic mount and life steal and recovery is terrible in pvp. Just as regen was nerfed these need to be taken out of pvp as well.

    Also strong hold boons need to removed from pvp as well.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    To me it's quite simple. CB "pierces" DR so it cannot be dodged and "overrides" CC immunity on a dodging/ sprinting target. Once it's in place, however, sprint should override/ reduce it's speed reducing effects until stamina runs out.
    In this situation, instead, the daily simply cannot be dodged AND cannot be countered patially (partially because stamina would run out way before CB effect is over).

    In my opinion in a game like this there's no place for "win" buttons that hit "no matter what". The dodging mechanic is what can balance a fight. For example, GWFs can hit very hard, but classes like TRs have the tools to avoid that damage through timed dodges and skills. And in fact, TRs can stall and fight for long times vs a GWF. On the other side, there's this weird piercing mechanic that basically acts as a "win" button when a TR fights a GWF or a SW. It's about time to fix it. You can ask for damage buffs as much as you want but asking for these mechanics to get fixed is pure common sense cause they destroy the meaning of action combat, which is based on aiming, timing and dodging.
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