Archery HR

isssssho

Lately I've been spending a lot of time testing various builds, rotations, encounters, combos - at first i was convinced end game archer can be on par with trapper but I'm slowly losing hope. So, any tips ? Anything that I might have missed or any new idea is welcome XD

lirithiel

I play a high crit Archery build (posted on this forum) but I haven't really played much since the Bonding change. My crit chance goes over 100% with 3 R11 Bonding buff. I'm still undecided on final companion set-up. Encounters: RoA, Longstrider's and CoA. I use Rapid Shot as my main attack. Single target we can possibly beat Trappers but not AoE.

isssssho

Didn't try roa nor rapid shot - used aimed + split shot; even used different setups on monomer bosses and mobs but not a single time did I manage to match my trapper (also taking my inexperiance with archer into consideration). Primary idea was to kinda copy gwf style of play - using throw caution first to buff myself than coa + thorn ward on mobs, and spam split shot (prolly electric is better option) till i can repeat the combo. On bosses - similar combo but use hawkshot as main hitter instead of coa + using aimed shot instead of split shot (not very bright since it gets interrupted), as for passives on mobs twin blade storm + stormstep action and on bosses changing twin blade strom for aspect of falcon (to help a bit more hawk shot do more dmg). any thoughts ?

kangkeok

Like lirithiel said use RoA, Longstrider and CoA for mob clearing. Thorn ward is a single target encounter so i wont do much compare to CoA during mob clearing. For single target boss fight, u replace CoA with thorn ward. Thorn ward is better than hawkshot if ur recovery is not very high due to its continuous dmg and debuff..didnt test how much recovery is needed to make hawkshot better than thorn but u can test them..

The problem archery vs trapper is that archer will never have a fair fight. Archery have to kill stuff from max distant to be fully effective. With stillness of forest and aspec of falcon offhand + hunting hawk, u can do up to 30-40% increase in dmg at 89'. But the problem with dungeon party is, with that distance u will be missing alot of party buff and not all mob is at max distance. In the boss fight, he may not be at the max distance due to the limited space in the room (My advice is when fighting with a GF, try stay at 30-50' to benefit from ITF + longstrider. For a pala, there is no solution. It will take away ur +25% crit with that distance). Also archer main dmg encounter is slow to execute ( RoA,CoA, thorn, splitshot, aimshot). That make trapper to able to maximize their effectiveness more than an archer does. Another thing is archery capstone is single target dmg increase while trapper's capstone is general increase of dmg. The difference is only 10%. The only place where archery really able to maximize his effectiveness is during dragon run in WoD if the GF, pala and DC is willing to standing next to u just to buff u up then u will be perfect haha. Cant belief i made a joke about it. The conclusion is that archery tree contradict alot of stuff this game is made off..so its hard to really maximize everything u got. I think the developer left archer out when they design the game..felt like an orphan...

troutslayer

isssssho said:

Didn't try roa nor rapid shot - used aimed + split shot; even used different setups on monomer bosses and mobs but not a single time did I manage to match my trapper (also taking my inexperiance with archer into consideration). Primary idea was to kinda copy gwf style of play - using throw caution first to buff myself than coa + thorn ward on mobs, and spam split shot (prolly electric is better option) till i can repeat the combo. On bosses - similar combo but use hawkshot as main hitter instead of coa + using aimed shot instead of split shot (not very bright since it gets interrupted), as for passives on mobs twin blade storm + stormstep action and on bosses changing twin blade strom for aspect of falcon (to help a bit more hawk shot do more dmg). any thoughts ?

Use rapid shot. You can throw in a split shot once in a while with groups of enemies, but it takes too long to use at max damage most of the time. Your best damage (in my opinion), if you are not at long range, is cordon of arrows, rain of arrows, and thorn ward (then spam rapid, also throw in disruptive and/or seismic when available). If you are too far for thorn ward, replace it with longstrider. Aimed shot takes way too long and can be interrupted, just don't bother. Plus even if it doesn't get interrupted, you can do more damage with many rapid shots in the same amount of time. I may be wrong, but I haven't found anything better yet, and I've tried everything I could think of. Mostly it's about speed: faster, smaller dmg attacks add up to more than you get from the bigger encounters. This obviously works better with single target and especially longer (boss) fights.

There is detailed discussion in the thread Lirithiel started about the SW Archer HR below in this forum. I haven't seen much change since that thread was started. Although with the changes to companions, I'm considering using my hunting hawk again and going for really long distance archery, but then the combat advantage issues...sigh. Long distance has the advantage of needing almost no defense or deflect since you dont take much damage, but you might not do as much damage either, I think. If I understand Lirithiel's style, it's more med range, hence thorn ward, but needs more defensive stats to stay alive, but it also gets more party buffs. I suspect the medium range approach is better for damage overall, but if you like killing stuff from a different zip code, go for it.

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1214188/stormwarden-archery-crit-build

Onward and upwards my archer friends...

troutslayer

kangkeok said:

Like lirithiel said use RoA, Longstrider and CoA for mob clearing. Thorn ward is a single target encounter so i wont do much compare to CoA during mob clearing. For single target boss fight, u replace CoA with thorn ward. Thorn ward is better than hawkshot if ur recovery is not very high due to its continuous dmg and debuff..didnt test how much recovery is needed to make hawkshot better than thorn but u can test them..

The problem archery vs trapper is that archer will never have a fair fight. Archery have to kill stuff from max distant to be fully effective. With stillness of forest and aspec of falcon offhand + hunting hawk, u can do up to 30-40% increase in dmg at 89'. But the problem with dungeon party is, with that distance u will be missing alot of party buff and not all mob is at max distance. In the boss fight, he may not be at the max distance due to the limited space in the room (My advice is when fighting with a GF, try stay at 30-50' to benefit from ITF + longstrider. For a pala, there is no solution. It will take away ur +25% crit with that distance). Also archer main dmg encounter is slow to execute ( RoA,CoA, thorn, splitshot, aimshot). That make trapper to able to maximize their effectiveness more than an archer does. Another thing is archery capstone is single target dmg increase while trapper's capstone is general increase of dmg. The difference is only 10%.

Lotta solid advice here, though I would never use aimed shot and rarely use split shot. But I'm not sure the long distance approach really will do more damage even in a single target fight when you have the room to do it. On the other hand, it sure is fun. I should probably test long vrs med range...

kangkeok

troutslayer#3410 said:

kangkeok said:

Like lirithiel said use RoA, Longstrider and CoA for mob clearing. Thorn ward is a single target encounter so i wont do much compare to CoA during mob clearing. For single target boss fight, u replace CoA with thorn ward. Thorn ward is better than hawkshot if ur recovery is not very high due to its continuous dmg and debuff..didnt test how much recovery is needed to make hawkshot better than thorn but u can test them..

The problem archery vs trapper is that archer will never have a fair fight. Archery have to kill stuff from max distant to be fully effective. With stillness of forest and aspec of falcon offhand + hunting hawk, u can do up to 30-40% increase in dmg at 89'. But the problem with dungeon party is, with that distance u will be missing alot of party buff and not all mob is at max distance. In the boss fight, he may not be at the max distance due to the limited space in the room (My advice is when fighting with a GF, try stay at 30-50' to benefit from ITF + longstrider. For a pala, there is no solution. It will take away ur +25% crit with that distance). Also archer main dmg encounter is slow to execute ( RoA,CoA, thorn, splitshot, aimshot). That make trapper to able to maximize their effectiveness more than an archer does. Another thing is archery capstone is single target dmg increase while trapper's capstone is general increase of dmg. The difference is only 10%.

Lotta solid advice here, though I would never use aimed shot and rarely use split shot. But I'm not sure the long distance approach really will do more damage even in a single target fight when you have the room to do it. On the other hand, it sure is fun. I should probably test long vrs med range...

Thanks but u should try split shot during mob clearing..i mean no point shooting toothpick on a single mob when the whole party is spamming massive aoe attacks..And about aimed shot..well..its not totally useless..but its totally situational..in boss fight like orcus or beholder..definitely aim spamming..aimed shot does the most dmg in uninterupted situation..as for boss like valindra or lostmauth..mix aim with rapid/hunter for top efficiency.. for boss like demogorgon..pulling aimed is impossible in final phase..so rapid/hunter all the way..

Yea..dont bother testing..despite archery feat emphasize on distance..most practical way is to stay 30-50'..dont wanna miss out the party buff gf/dc offered..those buff are definitely bigger than what archery feat could offer..

lirithiel

kangkeok said:

The problem archery vs trapper is that archer will never have a fair fight. Archery have to kill stuff from max distant to be fully effective. With stillness of forest and aspect of falcon offhand + hunting hawk, u can do up to 30-40% increase in dmg at 89'. But the problem with dungeon party is, with that distance u will be missing alot of party buff and not all mob is at max distance. In the boss fight, he may not be at the max distance due to the limited space in the room (My advice is when fighting with a GF, try stay at 30-50' to benefit from ITF + longstrider. For a pala, there is no solution. It will take away ur +25% crit with that distance). Also archer main dmg encounter is slow to execute ( RoA,CoA, thorn, splitshot, aimshot). That make trapper to able to maximize their effectiveness more than an archer does. Another thing is archery capstone is single target dmg increase while trapper's capstone is general increase of dmg. The difference is only 10%. The only place where archery really able to maximize his effectiveness is during dragon run in WoD if the GF, pala and DC is willing to standing next to u just to buff u up then u will be perfect haha. Cant belief i made a joke about it. The conclusion is that archery tree contradict alot of stuff this game is made off..so its hard to really maximize everything u got. I think the developer left archer out when they design the game..felt like an orphan...

That's the problem in a nutshell. Archers were designed to be max-range DD but even CWs do it better than us and then we miss out on all the buffs from the rest of the party in group play. Stillness of the Forest needs a rework to do away with the most damage at longer range part and give us some incentive to stay close to the other players.

troutslayer

lirithiel said:

That's the problem in a nutshell. Archers were designed to be max-range DD but even CWs do it better than us and then we miss out on all the buffs from the rest of the party in group play. Stillness of the Forest needs a rework to do away with the most damage at longer range part and give us some incentive to stay close to the other players.

Personally, I'd rather they just increased the distance based damage for archers to make up for the fact that we can't get the party buffs, or find some other method to compensate for that, otherwise by getting all up close and personal you're almost a trapper anyway. The horror!!

aaramis75

The thing is, you're not just missing out on buff; you might be straight up missing. Ever tried to aim a Cordon or Rain of Arrows from 30'? Forget it.

It just doesn't work mechanically.

troutslayer

aaramis75 said:

The thing is, you're not just missing out on buff; you might be straight up missing. Ever tried to aim a Cordon or Rain of Arrows from 30'? Forget it.



It just doesn't work mechanically.

I do it constantly from a lot further than 30', the only time I find it challenging is when the target is at a higher elevation and I can't see the targeted area properly. Sometimes you have to lead them a bit when they're on the run, but that just takes practice. If you don't like playing that way, no sweat, play however works best for you, but long range CoA and RoA are doable for me.

lirithiel

I have no issues with casting said encounters from beyond 30' either. Only one I may struggle with is Thorn Ward due to its shorter range, and yeah elevated terrain is a HAMSTER.

aaramis75

You guys are far better than me at aiming then. From 30'+, on a humanoid or smaller target that's moving, I find it challenging. Throw in uneven terrain, and it becomes mostly guesswork for me.

A stationary dragon, however, is a completely different story.