Suggestion concerning the AD Cap...

dameon2k

How about allowing every account to have one character who can earn unlimited AD or at least AD at a much higher cap once their character has reached level 70. All new characters would be capped 36k AD as they are now until they reach that point. Any additional characters outside the primary would be stuck behind the 36K wall but your primary would have the bigger cap or no cap. You could also tie AD to the quests starting at level 30 and beyond. That AD would increase as the levels increase. This would force an AD seller to get to level 70 before using this feature and they would have to do that an multiple accounts to try and abuse that. You could even make later quests necessary to unlock this feature. I haven't seen too many level 70 gold and AD sellers. This is just a rough draft of an idea but one that I think could be beneficial to all. As far as switching primaries at some point, you could put something in the zen store and WB that we could purchase to make that switch if one decided they wanted to switch their primary to another one of their characters.

plasticbat

The AD sellers do not care about the cap. They don't earn AD the way we do. I would say they don't earn raw AD at all. And the cap was not for AD sellers or bots. It is for limiting us.

urlord283

Have a weekend where one character per account can Double refine... that will not break the economy... really

you don't even need to pre-announce the event

dameon2k

plasticbat said:

The AD sellers do not care about the cap. They don't earn AD the way we do. I would say they don't earn raw AD at all. And the cap was not for AD sellers or bots. It is for limiting us.

How are bots and AD sellers making AD? Just farming? What is different about what they do? I imagine that is rather hard at this point. I guess they must hang out in a Guild Stronghold nowadays.

At this point rough AD is about all you can make minus selling something that drops (that isn't actually bound) or that you get in a chest. 36k makes sense when there is a ton of AD coming in but that isn't the case anymore. The good majority of AD is all rough (It is even ridiculous that invoking counts as rough considering the low amount you get overall) and 36K is a joke of a cap at this point. You literally have two real options, buy zen and open tons of lockboxes then sell what you find at a loss (unless you are lucky) or if you have tons of time farm like crazy, which isn't really all that fun. At the point an MMO becomes work and not fun, that is a problem.

Personally I like this MMO, the combat mechanics, and the overall feel, but cannot understand some of the decisions. When you are trying to upgrade your artifacts and artifact equipment having a 36k AD cap sort of defeats the purpose.

sockmunkey

Personally, I think it was a mistake to raise the limit to 36K. There is still far too much AD in circulation, the ZAX is still far too high. After all, we were lead to believe removing all that botted leadership AD was going to fix the economy. So while the ZAX no longer has a backlog, we have no real cushion. One blip in the economy, one popular event and we can see it hit the cap again.

There is a reason why they refuse to offer us a double AD weekend. Increasing refinement is the last thing they want.

scathias

dameon2k said:

How are bots and AD sellers making AD? Just farming? What is different about what they do? I imagine that is rather hard at this point. I guess they must hang out in a Guild Stronghold nowadays.

At this point rough AD is about all you can make minus selling something that drops (that isn't actually bound) or that you get in a chest. 36k makes sense when there is a ton of AD coming in but that isn't the case anymore. The good majority of AD is all rough (It is even ridiculous that invoking counts as rough considering the low amount you get overall) and 36K is a joke of a cap at this point. You literally have two real options, buy zen and open tons of lockboxes then sell what you find at a loss (unless you are lucky) or if you have tons of time farm like crazy, which isn't really all that fun. At the point an MMO becomes work and not fun, that is a problem.

Personally I like this MMO, the combat mechanics, and the overall feel, but cannot understand some of the decisions. When you are trying to upgrade your artifacts and artifact equipment having a 36k AD cap sort of defeats the purpose.

You were not around when the AD cap was 24k per day were you? Honestly, the way you have described earning AD i am not surprised you find that cap limiting. But there are other ways to earn AD. playing the AH is the easiest one. also, invoke, when you get a 15% coupon for refinement or for anything, buy 10 pres wards. sell them on the AH for a small profit. rinse repeat. lots of small trades is a good as the 1 or 2 large trades. buy things that will rise in value. Get VIP to a high enough level so you don't have AH fees anymore, that makes the AH trading game a lot easier. learn a market, start buying things when they are on the low end, sell them when they are on the high end. Make enchants. right now you can earn r5 quartermasters by farming. turn those into r7s or r8s or r9s and sell those.

there are lots of opportunities in the game, hitting your daily AD cap is just a way of getting some extra AD to leverage with. if you have any spare character slots though, make lv 4 toons and send the salvagable items to them. when they hit the 36k cap move the AD off and delete the character, rinse and repeat. it is horribly time consuming and boring but if you are really desperate that works. personally i would make the toons once and use them for storage (cheapest way to get more bag slots) as well as leadership (lovely lovely RP when you hit lv 25) and extra AD refining.

oliboyph

The probable issues with this is that it removes the incentive for making additional characters. Something that accounts for a significant portion of PWE's income. New characters need slots, companions, etc..

wildfirede

@sockmunkey i agree - wait till people get wind of the -50% sale and watch the zax

nathan

Im also relatively new, and until around item Lvl 2.5k+, I found the cap extremely limiting, but in a way that felt insurmountable and disenfranchising.

Imagine that you're a new player and you have all these mechanics and build paths to learn. Putting the refinement cap at 36k means that someone would literally have to hoard all their gains for 3 days just to respec their char.

Imagine you did that only to find that the fears you respecced to were not working as intended, and thus you just lost 10% damage.

In other games there are usually quests to handje things like that. When your only source of ad is your wallet, or running 10 dungeons to sakvage equip. It's a pretty uninviting system.

Now I just have days loads of ad stuck in the refine cap. It dies get better and atleast alorecebts he from buying things I don't need

sockmunkey

You are honestly looking at it the wrong way, that cap isn't a limitation. It's protection.

The mistake people make is they feel having more AD in their pockets will give them more buying power. The problem is raising the cap increases the AD in EVERYONES pockets. This leads to inflation. This actually reduces peoples buying power. Sure you have more AD but you end up buying less with it.

Even worse new players get punished twice by raising the cap. The veterans, the hardcore, the botters they will have no problem grinding up to what ever new level might be set. But not everyone will have the time, patience, or energy to reach the cap. If the cap is set to high then the "haves" simply outpace and run away from the "have-nots". The cap is a throttle, it keeps the haves and the have-nots from getting to far apart from each other while slowing inflation. It protects new players by keeping the economy somewhat stable.

flyingleon

sockmunkey said:

You are honestly looking at it the wrong way, that cap isn't a limitation. It's protection.

The mistake people make is they feel having more AD in their pockets will give them more buying power. The problem is raising the cap increases the AD in EVERYONES pockets. This leads to inflation. This actually reduces peoples buying power. Sure you have more AD but you end up buying less with it.

Even worse new players get punished twice by raising the cap. The veterans, the hardcore, the botters they will have no problem grinding up to what ever new level might be set. But not everyone will have the time, patience, or energy to reach the cap. If the cap is set to high then the "haves" simply outpace and run away from the "have-nots". The cap is a throttle, it keeps the haves and the have-nots from getting to far apart from each other while slowing inflation. It protects new players by keeping the economy somewhat stable.

+1

grogthemagnif

sockmunkey said:

You are honestly looking at it the wrong way, that cap isn't a limitation. It's protection.

The mistake people make is they feel having more AD in their pockets will give them more buying power. The problem is raising the cap increases the AD in EVERYONES pockets. This leads to inflation. This actually reduces peoples buying power. Sure you have more AD but you end up buying less with it.

Even worse new players get punished twice by raising the cap. The veterans, the hardcore, the botters they will have no problem grinding up to what ever new level might be set. But not everyone will have the time, patience, or energy to reach the cap. If the cap is set to high then the "haves" simply outpace and run away from the "have-nots". The cap is a throttle, it keeps the haves and the have-nots from getting to far apart from each other while slowing inflation. It protects new players by keeping the economy somewhat stable.

+1

plasticbat

dameon2k said:

plasticbat said:

The AD sellers do not care about the cap. They don't earn AD the way we do. I would say they don't earn raw AD at all. And the cap was not for AD sellers or bots. It is for limiting us.

How are bots and AD sellers making AD? Just farming? What is different about what they do? I imagine that is rather hard at this point. I guess they must hang out in a Guild Stronghold nowadays.

At this point rough AD is about all you can make minus selling something that drops (that isn't actually bound) or that you get in a chest. 36k makes sense when there is a ton of AD coming in but that isn't the case anymore. The good majority of AD is all rough (It is even ridiculous that invoking counts as rough considering the low amount you get overall) and 36K is a joke of a cap at this point. You literally have two real options, buy zen and open tons of lockboxes then sell what you find at a loss (unless you are lucky) or if you have tons of time farm like crazy, which isn't really all that fun. At the point an MMO becomes work and not fun, that is a problem.

Personally I like this MMO, the combat mechanics, and the overall feel, but cannot understand some of the decisions. When you are trying to upgrade your artifacts and artifact equipment having a 36k AD cap sort of defeats the purpose.

Bots does not earn raw AD anymore. In the past, it would be from leadership. They farm materials and then sell them in AH for refined AD which has no cap.

For real human player and bots, a lot of them also play the AH game to earn AD. Buy low sell high.

torontodave

invoke 1 - 250 ad(?)
invoke 2 - 500 ad(?)
invoke 3 - 500 ad(?)
invoke 4 - 750 ad(?)
invoke 5 - 1000 ad

3k per day * 50 chars = 150k AD per day.

bots. invoking.

plasticbat

torontodave said:

invoke 1 - 250 ad(?)
invoke 2 - 500 ad(?)
invoke 3 - 500 ad(?)
invoke 4 - 750 ad(?)
invoke 5 - 1000 ad

3k per day * 50 chars = 150k AD per day.

bots. invoking.

That is well within the cap. They don't care if the cap is 32K, 24K or 10K.
And, they don't pay to buy character slots neither. So, they can have (say) 500 accounts and 1000 characters.

grogthemagnif

torontodave said:

invoke 1 - 250 ad(?)
invoke 2 - 500 ad(?)
invoke 3 - 500 ad(?)
invoke 4 - 750 ad(?)
invoke 5 - 1000 ad

3k per day * 50 chars = 150k AD per day.

bots. invoking.

Actually at level 70 it's:

Invoke 1 - 200 RAD
Invoke 2 - 400 RAD
Invoke 3 - 600 RAD
Invoke 4 - 800 RAD
Invoke 5 - 1000 RAD

+10% if You're VIP.

kangkeok

The more AD circulation in the market, the higher price in AH is gonna be. It wont be any different except we gonna do extra work to hit the cap and its unhealthy towards newbie.

nathan

I mean, I could be wrong but I'm quickly learning that those WITH absurd amounts of ad are not getting it by daily refinements. Also I'm pretty sure there was a major crackdown on botters recently, noticeably missing several account name strings that always had loads of goods

mythroha

sockmunkey said:

Personally, I think it was a mistake to raise the limit to 36K. There is still far too much AD in circulation, the ZAX is still far too high. After all, we were lead to believe removing all that botted leadership AD was going to fix the economy. So while the ZAX no longer has a backlog, we have no real cushion. One blip in the economy, one popular event and we can see it hit the cap again.

There is a reason why they refuse to offer us a double AD weekend. Increasing refinement is the last thing they want.

bad times..

thefabricant

sockmunkey said:

You are honestly looking at it the wrong way, that cap isn't a limitation. It's protection.

The mistake people make is they feel having more AD in their pockets will give them more buying power. The problem is raising the cap increases the AD in EVERYONES pockets. This leads to inflation. This actually reduces peoples buying power. Sure you have more AD but you end up buying less with it.

Even worse new players get punished twice by raising the cap. The veterans, the hardcore, the botters they will have no problem grinding up to what ever new level might be set. But not everyone will have the time, patience, or energy to reach the cap. If the cap is set to high then the "haves" simply outpace and run away from the "have-nots". The cap is a throttle, it keeps the haves and the have-nots from getting to far apart from each other while slowing inflation. It protects new players by keeping the economy somewhat stable.

+1 to this.

rock9000

Economy is driven by bots.

If we had more AD WE (real players) would spend more in AD sink.
Auction House always undercuts Wonderous Bazaar....

Price would be higher because "coal gate" and overall zen market prices.

nathan

What I was trying to say was pointed out by another player. The ad cap is kind of irrelevant. The people who earn mass ad are not doing so running dungeons for salvages it daily bonuses, but I'm not accusing all of them of botting either. Take a look sometime at the auction house data for top sellers. They aren't refining their ad, so the cap really only puts the threshold between us and them even higger

sockmunkey

Earning AD through the auction house is NOT creating AD, it is just transferring it between players. The only ways to CREATE AD is by processing it from rough to refined AD or buying it.

Moving AD around through the auction house, actually removes AD from the game. The auction house takes 10% of the transaction. This actually a good thing for the game. The refining limit is still very much important because it is the only real limiter that slows new AD from entering the economy.

namelesshero347

I'd rather they go back to the old limit. Players with alts can make more AD overall just by running most rewarding content of two epic dungeons on each alt. Skirmishes aren't as rewarding for the time spent. And PvP is just unpleasant for characters not well geared.

voidgift

I can't imagine anyone being insane enought to gear up 53 characters to a dungeon ready state. xD