Bubble OP still workable?

jase2cool

From what i notice Divine Protector (Bubble) was still widely used on OP tank .
As a fellow OP tank ...

My question is ...

1. Will it still be possible to make it 90%-100% up time?
2. Is it worth it to do so or should just move on with 50%-70% up time with more method of reducing damage?

oggycz

ad 1) I doubt it. Maybe 2 pallies with high recovery, flail snail and sigil. One very well geared pally maybe maintains bubble some time at the beginning of battle. I try to get recovery as high as possible, but had only 2,6k IL.

ad2) I now use bubble when somebody need to be picked up, or better try do bubble before that.

sethan93

I was able to perma-bubble before patch, like a lot of pallies, but not anymore.
I use it only for Orcus tanking and the Blue Dragon in SH Dragonflight.
I switch to Shield of Faith. Longer protection. And you can still cast bubble in case of emergency, if one of your friend in party is about to die.
Can still use it in pvp too. good way to stop dying at node 2 at start of the fight XD

wildfirede

Same - using it when i know that the party will get damage (inc. aoe, adds spawn, ...) else sanctuary.

I will cite the famous Walter Disney character Elsa: "Let it go"

- for good and enjoy the fun of finaly having the need to use the character's other skills.

And if something is broken (binding oath taunt, sanctuary dr) open a ticket so they fix those things and we can enjoy our paladins to the max.

akira

Information on myself to start: I have DC Sigil at Mythic, Flail Snail (Epic), Burning Weapon Set (Epic), 18k Recovery, and 1.5k AP Gain, most of my offense slots are still at R11 (Silvery), and I'm running Ioun Stone with all Loyal Master pieces, as well as Artificer's Persuasion (Insignia Set Buff). So I still have some room to improve (i.e. get more Recovery), as far as refining goes. (VIP, coupons, and crying about the Zen/AD exchange go a long way =|) I am running Plague Fire/Negation as well. PF for debuff, and Negation, in the long run, will provide additional recovery, and the DR is nice.
Skill Rotation: I run Binding Oath>Templar's Wrath>Burning Light and Valorous Strike for at will, with Radiant Strike to close the gap when needed.
Binding Oath: I feel this is necessary, in the following sense: with enough Recovery, I can keep up Binding Oath (near) indefinitely, which negates my need for defense as well as facilitating (near) Perma-Bubble. However, more Defense (as a stat) does nothing for keeping up DP, and has laughable returns for investment in my (limited) experience.
Templar's Wrath: The temp HP, which can essentially double your health pool, really comes in handy covering those times where you lapse on Binding Oath.
Burning Light: This one is more personal preference here. Relentless Avenger is great, but everyone else hates it (as a CW I hated it too). Bane is great, but its hard to slot in nowadays, especially when you have no outside AP help. I pretty much only use Bane on Demo or Orcus, IF the group has been playing well (trying not to die) AND the DPS is so high that running an additional debuff on the boss reduces the length of the fight considerably (shorter fights mean less time for people to die.) What Burning Light has to offer is good AP per cast, and the fact that it doesn't require a target to cast on, meaning you can ALWAYS cast as soon as cool down is up. The same can be said for Templar's Wrath as well. Additionally, during the dungeon run itself, there is a short time after mobs are cleared out that you are still "in combat" and continued casting of your encounters will provide you with additional AP. If you find that you aren't topped off at the end of the fight spam your encounters and Divine Call dump to fill in the missing points. This is how I am able to start 95%+ fights with bubble up from the start.
My mileage on DP post-nerf:
I can keep up DP with no outside AP Gain (DC or GF) for the first 15-20 seconds of the fight, depending largely on if I get the Burning Set bonus to proc off the get-go. After this, I can usually keep up bubble every 7-9 seconds, largely dependent on: if I get cc'd or not, Echoing Light Procs, Burning weapon Procs, and the cast animation for Divine Protection, for the next 60 seconds, at which point I'm hitting DC Sigil again, and repeating the cycle.
When I am running with a DC and/or GF that are handing out delicious AP's, it's considerably less stressful, but the largest hurdle I have when it comes to actually keeping up bubble is the cast-time/animation for DP itself.

Group composition matters now. Forethought into encounter/at wills/dailies matters now. Knowing the instances being cleared matters now. Not "standing in the fire" matters now. Pre-nerf I could handily carry a group of poorly geared, and not very skilled players through pretty much any content, except maybe Orcus (standing in green balls) or EToS (not being able to out dps Syndryth's heals/not being able to kill adds faster than they got eaten.) Now, it is actually important to have a balanced party (you shouldn't be running 4 GWF 1 OP *I am still guilty of this at times*) that incorporates not only a tank (you), but heals, and at least some form of party buff/enemy debuff utility.

In closing, I really do hope this provides other OP's to think about, and maybe some other classes will run into this and be all, "I really need to not stand in the fire anymore," or something. Hopefully I was helpful to somebody out there, and look forward to seeing the replies =D
Cheers,
Lightbringer

jase2cool

Thanks for the insight guys.

From my observation,
There isn't much OP Tank do these days, no doubt we still are most solid that out there but the demand are pretty low.

From what i noticed most dungeons are run these days with maximized buffs and minimal tanking ( GF + DC / CW along with 2-3 dps ) Orcus dies below 10 secs / before they can lift of their hand .

Those who looks for OP Tank normally are less skilled party with high expectation that OP will shelter them,
will rely on your DP where they tend to stand on red zone like a boss.

I have been to both scenario and sadly there not much i can do .

akira

I've been in mainly three distinct party compositions:
1) The classic, Tank, Heal, 3 DPS (i.e. OP Tank, DC or OP Heal, GWF, TR, HR)
2) Tank, 4 DPS, and, (i.e. OP Tank, 4x GWF)
3) Tank, Heal, 1 or 2 DPS, 2 or 1 Buff/Debuff. (i.e. OP Tank, DC Heal/Buff, GF Buff, SW, CW)

Party 1 usually doesn't have any major issues, as long as players are executing good gameplay.
Party 2 is a real toss-up, and I won't personally put together a party that way when I am Party/Queue Lead.
Party 3 is typically my fastest clear time, with the least amount of issues, even if the DC isn't Haste built and the GF doesn't keep up ITF. Just the sheer amount of party buffs and enemy debuffs makes an overwhelming difference in damage dealt/taken.

Also, as far as buffs go, consider speccing up to 5/5 Aura Gifts on the Light Feat tree, 25% of your power to the party as a buff can get pretty big. I was in a party awhile back, running with Zent. Warlock with 3x Greater Bonding Runestones, and my power got upwards of 70K, so over 17.5k power to my party as a buff is a pretty big deal.

As for finding a party, don't be afraid to be the one to start looking in /lfg for four more. I have way, WAY better mileage saying "lf4m buff/debuff/heal/dps (dungeon)" than saying, "X.Y OP Tank lfg (Dungeon)" People still want tanks, and people are still to lazy to start a group, they'd rather just try to tag along in someone else's run. Making yourself lead at least lets you control what the party composition is.

Glad you got some insight from myself and other players, at the end of the day we play games to have fun
Cheers,
Lightbringer