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One Classes CC duration compared to another's.

drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
I have been running A LOT of PvP lately and I seriously see a huge conflict between the inconsistencies relating to CC.

Many people know that I play a Scoundrel and live for the stuns and interrupts. More people know that I am rarely someone to whinge about one class being "TOO OP".

I am writing this because I have noticed many things:

Roots last a hell of a lot longer than Smokebomb or any of my stuns.
Entangled last a lot longer than Scoundrel's CC.
The prones and stuns related to GFs and GWFs last a lot longer than any thing I can offer.
The Smokebomb of another TR last longer than my stuns.

How do I know they do?

I time them and I see the lack off effect on my targets and the effects on myself and my teammates. I stack control resist and slot a Mythic Oghma's token in PvP.

I know I was not here for the cries that the TR stuns were too debilitating... so I will not even discuss that issue.

So... why was the Scoundrel nerfed so much that their CC became the weakest in the game... for PvP. I suggest balancing that one little piece more than <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that wont get fixed.

Yes, this is just another request to balance PvP.​​
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Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance

Comments

  • flehstifferflehstiffer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    +1
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Something is wrong when you see a rogue complains that his cc isn't good enough. People need to bear in mind that rogue's role is striker, not controller.

    Classes of each role is supposed have their own trade mark abilities which they are proud of, which classes of other roles cannot compete with, and which their foes tremble with fear at. That's the precious class diversity. Controller's single target dps should not excel striker's; Striker's cc should not excel controller's.

    Quite often I'm really confused. Why are we seeing strikers spamming AOE control power? Are being able to attack from within stealth and having cc immunity not enough? And why is controller's trade mark ability nerfed to the ground? Where is the precious class diversity?
    Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
  • drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    macjae wrote: »
    How about this: TRs have way too much control as it is.

    Comparing them to CWs and HRs? Those classes have much worse mechanics for avoiding being cc-ed to begin with. Fewer or worse dodges, no stealth or significantly less stealth, no encounter power cc breaker, no increased deflection severity. So they get cc-ed a lot more and a lot easier than TRs do.

    Conversely, TRs are one of the classes that are hardest to cc. Giving them the potential for high cc while they are extremely hard to cc themselves would be hugely imbalanced. (And if someone should object, "I'm a whisperknife, I have no ITC," then either switch paragon or ask for a nerf to ITC before asking for cc buffs to TRs.)

    Of course, that's not really getting into the truly brutally broken territory of TR cc. First, TRs have a daily that can cc people that are otherwise cc immune -- with a brutal slow. Then they have a long-lasting AoE cc effect which dazes constantly (and which can also be hard to avoid because the graphics tend to glitch). The two together make for a nasty combination. And they are both eminently spammable, because TRs can stack high Recovery (courtesy of not needing Armor Penetration, thanks to piercing damage). Of course, that requires Saboteur, not Scoundrel.

    So maybe what you should *really* be talking about here is internal class balance -- MI vs WK and Saboteur vs Scoundrel/Executioner, not comparing outcomes to what other classes can achieve (with significantly different capabilities in other regards), but what other TRs can do, and why the various TR builds don't really work as they seem intended to.



    Not shocked you would show up. You seem to have no problems controlling me and killing me.

    That being said... I do lobby against the simplicity of the MI path. There is a reason I play a Scoundrel to play the game the way that I want. Most MI Sabs and Mi Execs take that path because others have told them that it was easy and they can do a lot of damage. I will NEVER choose the easy route... in fact I have been told by a lot of players that I am one of the scariest unconventional TRs in the game. I am not even close to BiS either.

    I will also never choose to spam my dailies. There is more than one reason I do not level a DC, like 99% of all the other TRs... I am not like them, I cannot heal, I don't like things that make it easier for me to win.

    I stopped using Courage Breaker.
    I do use Smoke, but it does not last as long as other TRs or your Icy Terrain, Entangle or control as much as Repel. Entangle is something I cannot run out of, Icy is something I can run out of but is usually followed by Repel.

    FYI Class balance is Class balance. That means ALL paths are equally viable in every Class.​​
    ez0sf4K.png
    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
    SYNERGY Alliance
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    I am curious about CC duration on TR. Is it extended by Willow and Cantankerous? (for PvE)
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    A successful courage breaker/smoke combo depends a lot on your opponent's stamina level and their ability to use it to dodge.
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User

    A successful courage breaker/smoke combo depends a lot on your opponent's stamina level and their ability to use it to dodge.

    Dodge?? Boy, that would be cool, said the GWF.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

    A successful courage breaker/smoke combo depends a lot on your opponent's stamina level and their ability to use it to dodge.

    Dodge?? Boy, that would be cool, said the GWF.
    wtt hr dodges for gwf sprint + ?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User

    I am curious about CC duration on TR. Is it extended by Willow and Cantankerous? (for PvE)

    Yes. Control bonuses work on every class, but some classes have much more access to control powers than others.
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  • hedgebethedgebet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 447 Arc User
    But realize you can walk out of smoke (including about a half second to walk out when it is first applied). There are also a few tricks to get out of smoke that some utilize but they are probably bugs so I will not get into them (nor will I report them as bugs since bugs from years ago I have reported still persist and thus the act would be moot).
  • drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    hedgebet wrote: »
    But realize you can walk out of smoke (including about a half second to walk out when it is first applied). There are also a few tricks to get out of smoke that some utilize but they are probably bugs so I will not get into them (nor will I report them as bugs since bugs from years ago I have reported still persist and thus the act would be moot).

    Only a small part of the problem. People can walk out of Icy Terrain too. People cannot dodge Entangle or Repel. I have fought a CW who was so jacked on recovery that any time I got close to him he would Repel we. I am talking every 3 to 5 seconds. The same goes for Bull Charge... not dodge-able.

    If I really wanted to mess with people I could just slot my +5 ambush ring and my +5 cowardice then put the AP drains on... and see who wins the "war of the hidden". I guarantee a TR will win that every time.

    I choose to play my role... not use BAF items to make me feel more skilled.

    @macjae... that is why my HR bud and I do PvP together... add one enigma CW and we are insane.​​
    ez0sf4K.png
    Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
    Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
    SYNERGY Alliance
  • hedgebethedgebet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 447 Arc User
    macjae said:


    I don't generally have problems with Smoke Bomb on its own, I'm just pointing out that it isn't affected by Tenacity. And yes, you can walk out of it -- but that takes a good while if the TR applied Courage Breaker first; if the TR has (god forbid) an HR buddy rooting you inside the smoke, you can often just AFK until you get to move again -- out of the spawn zone.

    Conversely, if some TR just lands Smoke Bomb on my node, I will dodge clear of it nearly every time before it takes effect. There are, however, some occasional problems with a bit of a glitch where the visual FX don't appear until a bit after the power takes effect, which means that you may not be aware of the effect area, and that can screw you up.

    I realize what you are saying but to clarify so that all understand. Smoke is affected by tenacity (was mentioned by a dev somewhere that I cannot find) but because it actually reapplies itself the tenacity benefit is completely useless.
  • hedgebethedgebet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 447 Arc User
    drkbodhi said:




    Only a small part of the problem. People can walk out of Icy Terrain too. People cannot dodge Entangle or Repel. I have fought a CW who was so jacked on recovery that any time I got close to him he would Repel we. I am talking every 3 to 5 seconds. The same goes for Bull Charge... not dodge-able.



    If I really wanted to mess with people I could just slot my +5 ambush ring and my +5 cowardice then put the AP drains on... and see who wins the "war of the hidden". I guarantee a TR will win that every time.



    I choose to play my role... not use BAF items to make me feel more skilled.



    @macjae... that is why my HR bud and I do PvP together... add one enigma CW and we are insane.​​

    I have encountered a CW like that. It was one of the more humbling experiences I had as I found no effective counter to that repel bombardment, but of course I wisely chose to go elsewhere.

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    macjae said:

    So by my reasoning it's not so much that the skills are out of whack, it's simply the problem that plagues PvP all over the place: Individual skills are not affected by tenacity individually. Everything gets the same bonus/malus. If Cryptic would simply add tenacity bonus/debuffs on skills when you're flagged for PvP, the problem could be resolved quite easily. And they can do it. If SE can ignore tenacity, then Roots can provide a virtual tenacity bonus to the target, making it more balanced in PvP, while leaving it alone in PvE. if smoke is under-performing, then add a virtual tenacity debuff to the target for the sake of calculating its effects. It's not rocket science. Cryptic invented the stat for exactly this reason. It's just a matter of putting in the effort.

    One of the things about Smoke Bomb is actually that the cc part is one of the few types of cc in the game that are *not* affected by Tenacity because it's constantly reapplied while the effect is up and someone is standing in it. That actually makes it a lot stronger, relatively speaking, in PvP than it is in PvE. I'm also not sure if Tenacity affects Courage Breaker, given that it cuts through cc immunities.

    In the case of Smoke Bomb, to equalize its PvP performance with its PvE performance when compared with other classes' control abilities, its duration should be reduced by about 40% while flagged for PvP. That would emulate the effect that Tenacity has on most other forms of cc from other classes. However, consistency changes like that aren't exactly a priority, given how many other things are broken.
    yes nerf the power you hear it 1 second before it lands and has also 1 sec delay to apply the daze . you have 2 seconds to avoid the daze and even if you get the daze you move out of the smoke.
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