Temple of Tiamat: Time to update the event rules

ironzerg79

I know the Tiamat fight has had it's up and downs. But I think it's time to update the queue rules, much like Gauntlgrym was updated a few months ago.

It's no longer THE thing to do. People are hardly queuing up for it, and they're not seeing much success when they do. I think it's time to update the event rules. Here's the what and why.

1) Allow people to queue any time they want, similar to GG or SH PvP. There's no reason to keep the instance restricted to once an hour anymore, since it's older content, especially with Module 8 on the horizon

2) Allow the queue to group up guilds, similar to Strongholds. More coordinated groups of people queuing together means better chances of success. It will also allow the solo players better chances to enter a winning instance. It's been my experience that if you can get 15-20 really well geared and coordinated people in Tiamat, they can carry the other 5-10, assuming they're not terrible. You'll only see this happening if guilds know they can reliably get people together in the same instance.

3) In conjunction with the two above, just let people farm it as much as they want, but remove the loser rewards to encourage people to "play to win" instead of just afking for a consolation prize.

goldmoon

The tiamat is complete fine, just keep it as is.

Tiamat is a supremely strong and powerful draconic goddess, there is no way you should beat her easily.

ironzerg79

Technically you're not defeating her. You're just pushing her back before she can crawl out of the portal and destroy the world...and only then after 4 very powerful NPCs help magically weaken her.

EDIT: But even then, FUN should trump LORE in a video game. No one's having FUN losing to Tiamat all the time.

goldmoon

I am having fun with fooooooooooood in tiamat.

silverkelt

Tiamat can be rolled with any solid grouping.. its not hard at all.

The shear fact of it remains, instances only lose due to people going into tiamat that have no clue nor built right to do it.

It doesn't require 3k plus at all.. simply toons with enough arp (dps toons should be around 50% + arp at least) enough debuff, buffing with enough enchant powers , will make this a 3 phase win every time.

Your suggestions, though valid in some spots, STILL would allow in poeple that that shouldnt be in the instance. Ive stated many , many times, move this to a 35% AT least minimum requirement to enter, even tank/healers can get that with no fuss at all.

This would lock out people who dont have a clue what they are doing, until they are forced to get a clue to do it.

thefabricant

ironzerg79 said:

Technically you're not defeating her. You're just pushing her back before she can crawl out of the portal and destroy the world...and only then after 4 very powerful NPCs help magically weaken her.

EDIT: But even then, FUN should trump LORE in a video game. No one's having FUN losing to Tiamat all the time.

I know groups of friends of mine who beat not only 1 instance of tiamat per hour, but 2. They all simultaneously queue into 1 instance, burst her down in 1/2 waves then change to another instance and burst her down there as well. That being said, if you not with 1 of those large groups, you probably going to lose.

ironzerg79

Which can work because there's so few people queuing up for Tiamat these days, right? Last time Unrepentant did Tiamat, it was easy to get 15 of us into one instance and roll it...but it'd be much easier if we could all just queue up and not have to externally coordinate a time to click the door and "hope" to get in, or hope there's an instance to switch everyone to (which then kinda screws over the instance other people left )

thefabricant

ironzerg79 said:

Which can work because there's so few people queuing up for Tiamat these days, right? Last time Unrepentant did Tiamat, it was easy to get 15 of us into one instance and roll it...but it'd be much easier if we could all just queue up and not have to externally coordinate a time to click the door and "hope" to get in, or hope there's an instance to switch everyone to (which then kinda screws over the instance other people left )

Oh, I wasn't saying I disagree with you, I was just saying it can be done. Honestly, you should just start a.."Suggestion of the week" Youtube series where you give us whatever suggestion for the game you have dreamed up on a particular week, we all oooh and ahhh and say its amazing and agree with it and the devs don't implement it. After all, with the exception of the video, that pretty much sums up all of your suggestions, we all like them, but they not getting implemented

peonlicious

thefabricant said:

ironzerg79 said:

Which can work because there's so few people queuing up for Tiamat these days, right? Last time Unrepentant did Tiamat, it was easy to get 15 of us into one instance and roll it...but it'd be much easier if we could all just queue up and not have to externally coordinate a time to click the door and "hope" to get in, or hope there's an instance to switch everyone to (which then kinda screws over the instance other people left )

After all, with the exception of the video, that pretty much sums up all of your suggestions, we all like them, but they not getting implemented

sadly this is true

ironzerg79

@thefabricant Hahah...what can I say? I guess I just really like "fantasy roleplaying" as a game dev.

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ironzerg79

@magenubbie I'd be happy with a Tiamat queue button popping up at the start of every hour then, so at the very least people can queue for it from anywhere, and don't have to run to WoD.

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wylonus

the biggest problem is those legion devils, they still do one-shotted and drag down your run speed when we tried to run to the heads, these damn devils would been bannished at once the cleric's beam are activated til next waves.

klangeddin

Tiamat's biggest failure is the mandatory emphasis on DPS. Tanks and healers don't get to shine even in poor dps conditions, unlike dungeons delves (where they may still succeed if DPS is lacking, only taking longer). We may call this a problem of "lack of substitutability of roles". DPS or fail.

The whole design of "time-attack" is problematic and group composition issues exacerbate it even worse.

Allowing us to queue when we want and with the group composition we want without a time limit would be a vast improvement. Even at the cost of a party size reduction (10 rather than 25 for example). The rewards are not that good to make them this elusive and with the new upcoming mod they will be largely outdated in less than a few weeks.

banaanc

removing time limit should be enough

santralafax

I have only run it once lately with a 3.3K GWF. Have never totally understood the play to it (too lazy to read the wiki), and this time I mostly stayed further back clobbering devils over and over and over. I was really surprised to come in third on that instance.

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theycallmetomu

Tiamat is just too time consuming to take seriously. I haven't fought her since mod 5, back when ZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERG!!! was the only effective approach. Don't know how she is now. My character broke 3k iLevel, but I still have no clue if I'm effective as a character these days..

klangeddin

magenubbie said:

klangeddin said:

they will be largely outdated in less than a few weeks.

Absolutely not. The Linu's Favor alone will never make it outdated. The most powerful boons (not counting SH) have to be bought with those. And people need a LOT of them. These boons also need to get fixed to do what they claim to do, but that's another matter for another thread.

Linu's favor can be gained outside of Tiamat so this point is invalid. Besides, the boons gained with Linu's favors are not powerful at all, they are a very marginal upgrade over what you can earn without them (wohooo +2% lifesteal for 80 Linus). The only thing that may survive past mod 8 from there is the artifact and even now it's not particularly sought after.

iandarksword

There is a difference between running the encounter on Monday as opposed to the weekend. I've seen many successful runs on weekends because the buffs are built throughout the week. Just something to keep in mind, as you suggest changes. When the hoard no longer provides the needed buffs (level 3 or 4) at the end of the week, then it'll be likely time for changes.

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klangeddin

magenubbie said:

klangeddin said:

magenubbie said:

klangeddin said:

they will be largely outdated in less than a few weeks.

Absolutely not. The Linu's Favor alone will never make it outdated. The most powerful boons (not counting SH) have to be bought with those. And people need a LOT of them. These boons also need to get fixed to do what they claim to do, but that's another matter for another thread.

Linu's favor can be gained outside of Tiamat so this point is invalid. Besides, the boons gained with Linu's favors are not powerful at all, they are a very marginal upgrade over what you can earn without them (wohooo +2% lifesteal for 80 Linus). The only thing that may survive past mod 8 from there is the artifact and even now it's not particularly sought after.

My bad. 8% crit severity (provided it actually worked) increase is absolutely worthless to most classes. What was I thinking... I can get much better from any of the other campaigns.
As for getting linus through coffers.. that's a good alternative. Provided you can kill enough mobs to get enough coffers to drop. Have you done the math to how many coffers you'd need and how long it takes to get them? And don't give me the "then buy them" BS please.

First of all, it's not 8% crit severity from the linu's. It's 3%, the previous 5% does not require any Linu's Favor. Which does not really seem that great at all. It's less than the orc racial. An extra 3% crit severity is not gonna make or break anything, either in PvE or PvP.
Second, the coffers are a valid alternative and yes, you can buy them or do a combo of buying + farming.
The time it takes? it's a lot, but so is getting 80 Linu's from Tiamat. 80 hours in the best case scenario. (I don't think it ever happened that someone had 80 success in a row from the first attempt anyway). The lower someone's success rate, the higher the the tries and time invested. WIth a 50% success it's 160 hours and so on. Try the equivalent of 80/160/240/320 and so (compared to the expected value of victory chance against Tiamat) hours of uninterrupted farming in the Dragon Well and probably you're not that far off.
Either way it's a long grind, and none of this justifies the current flawed mechanics of the Tiamat encounter (which is the point of this thread).

killergilnyc1

Yeah I don't even go to Tiamat because its always a fail. Waste of time to go and lose.

wylonus

i provided several ideas for devs, and none of them accepting or wont even try to fix. it all baloney cheap talk, and quoted by Marvel's character, Wolverine said so many times, "Talk is Cheap!". i still havent seen any "priorities" and instead i have seen several unpopular fixes that could had been fixed alot later, and all it does, it make players upset, and last thursday fix was the lowest of all.
players want primary contents get fix and not mostly for pvp when not everyone plays to play a player killers, many avoid pvp stuffs. so, i dont understand what is priority for them.

mjonis

klangeddin said:

magenubbie said:

klangeddin said:

magenubbie said:

klangeddin said:

they will be largely outdated in less than a few weeks.

Absolutely not. The Linu's Favor alone will never make it outdated. The most powerful boons (not counting SH) have to be bought with those. And people need a LOT of them. These boons also need to get fixed to do what they claim to do, but that's another matter for another thread.

Linu's favor can be gained outside of Tiamat so this point is invalid. Besides, the boons gained with Linu's favors are not powerful at all, they are a very marginal upgrade over what you can earn without them (wohooo +2% lifesteal for 80 Linus). The only thing that may survive past mod 8 from there is the artifact and even now it's not particularly sought after.

My bad. 8% crit severity (provided it actually worked) increase is absolutely worthless to most classes. What was I thinking... I can get much better from any of the other campaigns.
As for getting linus through coffers.. that's a good alternative. Provided you can kill enough mobs to get enough coffers to drop. Have you done the math to how many coffers you'd need and how long it takes to get them? And don't give me the "then buy them" BS please.

First of all, it's not 8% crit severity from the linu's. It's 3%, the previous 5% does not require any Linu's Favor. Which does not really seem that great at all. It's less than the orc racial. An extra 3% crit severity is not gonna make or break anything, either in PvE or PvP.
Second, the coffers are a valid alternative and yes, you can buy them or do a combo of buying + farming.
The time it takes? it's a lot, but so is getting 80 Linu's from Tiamat. 80 hours in the best case scenario. (I don't think it ever happened that someone had 80 success in a row from the first attempt anyway). The lower someone's success rate, the higher the the tries and time invested. WIth a 50% success it's 160 hours and so on. Try the equivalent of 80/160/240/320 and so (compared to the expected value of victory chance against Tiamat) hours of uninterrupted farming in the Dragon Well and probably you're not that far off.
Either way it's a long grind, and none of this justifies the current flawed mechanics of the Tiamat encounter (which is the point of this thread).

How does one "buy" a Linus favor? I didn't see any in the AH (I didn't think "currency" like that was tradeable?).

ironzerg79

You buy the coffers, then trade them in at the Hoard wagon for Linu's.

qexotic

As far as I can see, only one change to Tiamat is required: set the hoard reclamation level to 100%....permanently.

theycallmetomu

It's ridiculously expensive to buy enough linus for the boons, but not 100% unattainable I guess.

klangeddin

At the moment its about 23k AD on AH for 100 coffers. 100 coffers = 1 Linu.
In total you need 80 so it's about 1,84 millions AD.