StoneMan Pve what gems/Eq would be good

Mythodis - Storm Legion
Mythodis - Storm Legion Posts: 2 Arc User
edited May 2013 in Protector Discussion
hi every one. thanks for looking. im a Pve player and makeing a stone man. this is my build im gunna do. feel free to commit any changes cuz this is my first SM.:D http://fw.perfectworld.com/talentcalc?cls=protector&r=stn&b=t2a15t3a15t3b11t3b23t3b32t3c11t3c23t3c34t3d13t3d32t3e33t3f12t3f34t3g13t3h22t3h32t3i22t3i33t3j13t3j32t3k22t3k33t3l31 also what gems would i have to use and what would be the best armor? im pve tank but also like to solo. im gunna try to find a good pet that can maby boost my attack also. thank you for looking :)
Post edited by Mythodis - Storm Legion on

Comments

  • Acier - Eyrda
    Acier - Eyrda Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Hp, attack, defense. About in that order.
  • tehnubinator
    tehnubinator Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I would take the points out of schism and put them elsewhere. I think you'll find the slowing down of mobs to be more of an annoyance than helpful.

    As for gems, I'm going to have to disagree with Acier and say defense > health > attack. I never found attack to be all that important in holding aggro as a marble protector.
  • Acier - Eyrda
    Acier - Eyrda Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Trust me defense isn't worth nearly as much as hp or attack. On average your defense is fine for holding agro and tanking things just by refines and warded stout gear. Defense just doesn't have the weight that hp and attack do in this game. Attack is vital in holding agro without taunts and gives more cushion room for being stunned or what not, not to mention faster runs. There is a reason why solarflares are cheap gems in game.
  • thethibault
    thethibault Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I would say HP> crit def > def > attack

    And def and attack can be switched based on income and play style. If you have the money get the attack first otherwise just get def neither are all that important just help in different ways. HP is by FAR the most important if you have to choose between a solarflare 3 and a blood 1 id still choose blood 1, they are that important.
  • MeowHeals - Eyrda
    MeowHeals - Eyrda Posts: 715 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I would say HP> crit def > def > attack

    And def and attack can be switched based on income and play style. If you have the money get the attack first otherwise just get def neither are all that important just help in different ways. HP is by FAR the most important if you have to choose between a solarflare 3 and a blood 1 id still choose blood 1, they are that important.

    PvE prot doesnt need to use lots of cash on crit def, just saying...

    And i agree with some of this, for a prot i'd say hp / atk / def for the 3 first slots, you also have no need to +12 anything for a pve prot as all in that aspect is fairly easy.
  • TheHulkgor - Storm Legion
    TheHulkgor - Storm Legion Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I don't think HP is as important in PVE as defense. You just need enough to survive AoEs. Defense on the other hand will decrease the rate at which you lose HP outside of the AoEs meaning you can solo things by just potting through it all.
  • Acier - Eyrda
    Acier - Eyrda Posts: 381 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    There are some things that defense just can't cover for though. Also I tend to notice that it doesn't scale as well as hp does in terms of tanking. Meaning the difference between 1k defense and 1.5k defense is small but still takes some work to make that jump. Where as going up 5-10k hp makes everything easier when it comes to living through it all.
  • TheHulkgor - Storm Legion
    TheHulkgor - Storm Legion Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To each his own. I did notice a big difference soloing relic when I got my defense up. It used to be very difficult and I was barely able to stay alive near the end. Now I don't even need health regen foods or rocky to keep my health at full all the time. The way I see it, rate at which health moves > the silly max health number.
  • thethibault
    thethibault Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Really depends on the opponent which is more important. However in my experience not having enough def is way worse than not having enough hp. Really even without prioritizing solars your def will grow faster than hp just because of how common and cheap they are. And there are many attacks that are "pure" damage and dont regard def at all in PvE. Relic is a bad example of this as he is probably the easiest wb in the higher lvl bosses. But if you try taking Koubo bear with 2k def but only 20k hp everyone will laugh as you die repeatedly because of crits. This is why i also mentioned crit def.

    It really comes down to this... Do you want to be the best invincible tank on the server that can tank any boss no matter who is healing him... OR... Do you want to just not die with a very good priest in average PvE (like instances and quests). If you are a casual player just get def as thats all you need. If you are hardcore PvE and want to do all the latest instances first and defeat all of the toughest bosses get your hp, crit def, and attack up while increasing your def as you get it (dont prioritize it). Def has the worst scaling mechanic of any attribute in the game and only works on the base auto attacks. Anything with a high crit rate or special abilities will laugh as it stands on your dead body if your hp/crit def arent high enough.
  • skylarkin
    skylarkin Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I don't think HP is as important in PVE as defense. You just need enough to survive AoEs. Defense on the other hand will decrease the rate at which you lose HP outside of the AoEs meaning you can solo things by just potting through it all.


    You can generally put a mental block off advice from any person who prioritizes Defense in FW whichever class he or she is. Even if this is a PVE tank discussion.

    Being a prot, if your gear is current with your level, your defense is likely to be more than enough to get through with heals. The only sources of dmg defense mitigates are direct hits from boss... and thrash mobs. Sure gear defense if you're a "thrash mob" specialist. I'm sure prots are brought in to be thrash specialists.

    Incoming PVE dmg which kills or risks killing you are usually magic based attacks. Defense does absolutely nothing or even if it does... the sheer number ie. 20k - 300 extra defense = 19700 dmg... yeah big deal.

    These damages come at regular intervals. Why do people prefer warrior tanks besides their superior dps again? Their HP pool... When damage mechanics kicks in, the remaining HP pool gives healers are larger margin of error to react. This is clear cut, already been said over and over again. One of the reasons why Prots are pushed out of PVE.


    Prots are already a class which is very lacking in PVE. Don't give bad advice to make it worse.
  • TheHulkgor - Storm Legion
    TheHulkgor - Storm Legion Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    skylarkin wrote: »
    Being a prot, if your gear is current with your level, your defense is likely to be more than enough to get through with heals. The only sources of dmg defense mitigates are direct hits from boss... and thrash mobs. Sure gear defense if you're a "thrash mob" specialist. I'm sure prots are brought in to be thrash specialists.

    Incoming PVE dmg which kills or risks killing you are usually magic based attacks. Defense does absolutely nothing or even if it does... the sheer number ie. 20k - 300 extra defense = 19700 dmg... yeah big deal.

    Wrong... so wrong. I tested this when I saw a guildie say it and it's 100% false. Defense definitely affects elemental damage taken. Stop blindly accepting everything you're told and go test stuff out for yourself before giving advice and insulting people again please. And if you're seeing 20k damage from something that shows up in your combat log in pve, you're doing something wrong (go get some defense).
  • skylarkin
    skylarkin Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Learn to decipher the 'even if argument'. Defense damage mitigation is 1:1.

    More health mitigates %hp loss per hit compared to stacking defense. This is in the context of survivability in boss fights, where incoming 'SPIKE' damage is the concern. Where WARRIORS are preferred over prots because of HP pools, where MORE hp = MORE leeway for healers.

    Btw, Sins/Vamps/Mages have been tanking ASHM/TOK/GOS. You wanna tell me it's their defense? People get past a certain gear threshold, and they start pulling aggro. With aggro you become the de facto tank. These "non tanking" classes are able to do so with much success... to newbie prots reading this, it's definitely.. not due to solarflares or stacking defense on gears. Simply.. having.. enough.. HP.

    The toughest bosses aren't even in dungeons. And to maximize our chances of winning the loot against other parties, you won't be seeing a Prot in EB WB hunting, because it's a dps race. Some parties even ditch priests in favor of a Blood Vamp. Please, go check if they're stacking solarflares.

    So who's wrong? It's just you. Don't try to push forward flawed concepts just to 'be different' when certain arguments are already past the grindstone. Throw in a few solarflares if you want a cheap means of chroma for wings or just to fill some empty slots. But to say, prioritize defense over hp... it just leaves no room for discussion whatsoever.

    If you're so keen on reducing INCOMING damage directly, and so in want to be different from the 'mainstream', go ahead.

    Be an evasion prot.

    Lastly,
    ...before giving advice and insulting people again please.....

    Do point out where I insulted anyone. I am, however, offended by a silly idea being fed to newbies.
  • TheHulkgor - Storm Legion
    TheHulkgor - Storm Legion Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    skylarkin wrote: »
    More health mitigates %hp loss per hit compared to stacking defense. This is in the context of survivability in boss fights, where incoming 'SPIKE' damage is the concern. Where WARRIORS are preferred over prots because of HP pools, where MORE hp = MORE leeway for healers.

    I understand what you're saying here but it's not like the heals we get are percentage-based off of our hp. No matter matter how you look at it, you'll require less hp healed (from any incoming damage visible on your combat log) if you have more defense, and in my opinion, that is what makes you easy to heal. Yes, the aoe 'spike' damage and bleed damages are unaffected by defense but I have never found that to be a problem, even if the healer is a bit slower. Also, I disagree with your reasoning as to why warrior tanks are preferred to protectors. In my opinion, it's because they can output more damage.
    skylarkin wrote: »
    Btw, Sins/Vamps/Mages have been tanking ASHM/TOK/GOS. You wanna tell me it's their defense? People get past a certain gear threshold, and they start pulling aggro. With aggro you become the de facto tank. These "non tanking" classes are able to do so with much success... to newbie prots reading this, it's definitely.. not due to solarflares or stacking defense on gears. Simply.. having.. enough.. HP.

    No doubt that Sins, vamps, and mages can tank if they have enough HP. However, even if said 'non tanking' class had more hp than me, I'd still be the one that's easier to heal due to my defense. I often get comments about how easy I am to heal, i.e. "i barely had to heal" (a priest talking about me tanking GoS).
    skylarkin wrote: »
    The toughest bosses aren't even in dungeons. And to maximize our chances of winning the loot against other parties, you won't be seeing a Prot in EB WB hunting, because it's a dps race. Some parties even ditch priests in favor of a Blood Vamp. Please, go check if they're stacking solarflares.

    OK? Fair enough but I don't quite see the relevance to the defense vs hp discussion. Protectors are generally pretty low dps compared to other classes so this is obvious? Also just a side note here... I <3 blood vamps.s
    skylarkin wrote: »
    So who's wrong? It's just you. Don't try to push forward flawed concepts just to 'be different' when certain arguments are already past the grindstone. Throw in a few solarflares if you want a cheap means of chroma for wings or just to fill some empty slots. But to say, prioritize defense over hp... it just leaves no room for discussion whatsoever.

    If you're so keen on reducing INCOMING damage directly, and so in want to be different from the 'mainstream', go ahead.

    So arrogant and closed-minded. You must always be right :rolleyes:. Anyways, I don't care about wings and I'm not trying to be different from mainstream. I'm just trying to help people with what I believe the correct way to build a pve protector is. I like doing fun stuff like 3-manning ToK with a wind bard solo healing it, 3 manning AS with nobody that can revive, etc. Defense definitely help when I do those things.

    So let me pose a scenario for you. You're in LCS and the sole healer disconnects. Would you rather:
    A) Have a lot of health and die anyway because the damage you're taking is too high for you to out-potion

    B) Have a lot of defense and take much less damage that you can heal yourself through with potions ;)
    skylarkin wrote: »
    Do point out where I insulted anyone. I am, however, offended by a silly idea being fed to newbies.

    You're right, you didn't insult me directly. I am quite insulted by the fact that you implied that people should put a mental block on my advice though. Saying that you disagree with me and that YOU (yourself, subjectively) think that that I'm giving bad advice - that I would be OK with. But you're more or less instructing people to ignore my advice altogether and I'm not supposed to take offense to that??

    And for the record, I'm not saying you don't need HP. I'm just saying that after you have enough hp to survive those aoes and stuff that are unaffected by defense (IMO 35k unbuffed is plenty enough), then defense becomes more important than HP.
  • skylarkin
    skylarkin Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited August 2012

    So let me pose a scenario for you. You're in LCS and the sole healer disconnects. Would you rather:
    A) Have a lot of health and die anyway because the damage you're taking is too high for you to out-potion

    B) Have a lot of defense and take much less damage that you can heal yourself through with potions ;)


    So newbies, go ahead and follow above person's said advice. Gem/Gear up specifically for DCs instead of end game boss fights :)
  • thethibault
    thethibault Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    skylarkin wrote: »
    So newbies, go ahead and follow above person's said advice. Gem/Gear up specifically for DCs instead of end game boss fights :)

    +1 skylarkin win

    Defense is meaningless against a crit or magic damage attack as he said, its only a 1:1 damage reduction from base damage. It does NOT effect bonus damage in any way. The base defense from prot armor is MOREEEEE than enough to make a prot the highest def class and can almost negate base damage without the def gems.

    all-in-all dont completely forget solars cuz they do have a place on a good prots armor, but hp/crit def/attack are all WAYYYYY more useful. Honestly if you notice too much of a difference when you upgrade solarflares you must not be challenging your prot very much.
  • djkorn
    djkorn Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I play a prot with lvl 3 solars, bloods and rags on my gears. I admit that things are easier now that i am not having to worry about healing, and with a mix of purple gear and +7 across the board im at about 29k with room for more gems. Im waiting to test my gear on a WB or two to see what still needs to be increased.

    Crit def will always help no matter what. Think of it as a 1:100 chance with 0%.

    each % increases your chance by 1 to not get hit. so mine i think is like 12% so it drops down to 1:8.5 chance of having crit dmg done.

    Everyone here is right in one way or another. Attack, crit def and HP are definitely the way to go. Also, if you get lvl 3s and like me want to teabag everything that is hitting you, then invest the money in star crystals and get +12. not recommended as you will go broke, but +7-+9 is good as you get three slots.

    3 slots * 8 pieces of gear = 24 slots.

    6 crit

    10 hp

    8 attack

    All lvl 3

    you will be fine IMO. anyone who feels that this is incorrect please let me know.
  • DeltaTroopa - Storm Legion
    DeltaTroopa - Storm Legion Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    djkorn wrote: »
    I play a prot with lvl 3 solars, bloods and rags on my gears. I admit that things are easier now that i am not having to worry about healing, and with a mix of purple gear and +7 across the board im at about 29k with room for more gems. Im waiting to test my gear on a WB or two to see what still needs to be increased.

    Crit def will always help no matter what. Think of it as a 1:100 chance with 0%.

    each % increases your chance by 1 to not get hit. so mine i think is like 12% so it drops down to 1:8.5 chance of having crit dmg done.

    Everyone here is right in one way or another. Attack, crit def and HP are definitely the way to go. Also, if you get lvl 3s and like me want to teabag everything that is hitting you, then invest the money in star crystals and get +12. not recommended as you will go broke, but +7-+9 is good as you get three slots.

    3 slots * 8 pieces of gear = 24 slots.

    6 crit

    10 hp

    8 attack

    All lvl 3

    you will be fine IMO. anyone who feels that this is incorrect please let me know.

    I know you're just trying to be helpful but

    A) This thread was almost three months old. Necros are bad mmmkay.

    B) Most of your info was wrong

    -That's not how crit def works at all ( suspect you were talking about crit dodge, but its still incorrect)
    -I'm not sure you understand how gem embedding works at all



    Crit dodge reduces your opponents chance to crit you (their crit chance - your crit dodge = % to crit)
    Crit Defense reduces the damage you take from crits (damage = their attack * [their crit dmg - your crit def])

    Aiming for Full +9 gears with level 3 gems is a good goal to aim for. (+7 or +8 won't work as you don't get the 3rd slot till +9)


    Gems
    There are limits to how many of what gems you can use and what slots you use them in.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "6 crit" but any way you look at it you can't do it
    You could do 2 crit dodge (Twilight in chest + boots) and 4 crit def (Chest, Waist, Pants, + Boots) However this causes problems with the other gems you've recommended

    10 HP - you can't have more than 1 of the same gem in a piece of gear so you can only use 8 bloodstones

    8 attack - This would work but you have to figure out what your priorities are because you've got 4 gems assigned to you boots/chest and only 2 to all of your offensive pieces

    Also you're leaving out:
    -Crit chance - Goldsparks increase how often you crit. Improves overall damage a fair bit and gives you much higher chance to spike dmg. Good for PvP.

    -Crit Damage - Shattershards inrease your damage output when you do crit.

    -Accuracy - Eagle eyes. Not so important in PvE, but essential if you want to PvP at all.
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  • Nayaru - Storm Legion
    Nayaru - Storm Legion Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yay a necromancer! Just thought I'd add because i find this thread interesting, once you've passed the HP check for <X> instance, more HP is good but really isn't particularly essential. As for the guy commenting about sins/vamps/whatever tanking instances, sure they can tank those and speaking as a healer, unless those guys have got massive health pools I'd rather they were not the tank. The squishyness is just down right annoying. 30k HP prot with awesome defense > Any DPS class with 40k+ HP and the crappy defense they almost always have.

    Not to mention, a good defense based Prot in an instance with lots of hard hitting mobs is just lovely, they can soak up so much damage without me having any "ohsht" moments which are so common with almost anything that isn't a decent prot, bar heavy cash shopped other classes, maybe. Also you can't say any half well refined prot is going to have decent defense for any situation, it's just not true, relatively squishy 30/40k HP prots? There are plenty out there.

    Besides, if you're focusing on raising your defense as a priority, you'll get all the HP you need for any instance in the process.
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  • WerePetar - Illyfue
    WerePetar - Illyfue Posts: 221 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    def is fail ,no use of it
  • TheHulkgor - Storm Legion
    TheHulkgor - Storm Legion Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    def is fail ,no use of it
    I hate it when people spew garbage with no reasoning or proof.

    I stack defense and anyone who knows me can tell you how hard I am to kill, and it's not because of my health. I could take off my boots and still survive anything in the game just fine. I duoed ToK with a wind bard (yes, including the secret boss) with no cash shop potions (life serums) and I'm sure that I wouldn't have been able to do it if I had -1000 defense and +10k health.
  • Summanus - Illyfue
    Summanus - Illyfue Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Well, he has point to a degree after a certain amount u dont need def, cos the mob hits dont affect you at all, and mainly thats the reason u have def in the first place.

    Once you have enough def, where mob are doing single digit hits on u, stacking more is meaningless, and Prots have high def base anyway. So stacking def after u have round 1500 is just wrong.


    You are better of stacking ragefires and hp, much more useful endgame. Thats of course if ur planning to be able to hold agro and be useful to the team.

    there is a big shift in change playing a prot from lower levels to endgame. Low levels, def is a life saver, high level you need attack, or no one wants u in parties and will replace u with warr everytime.
    Summanus | 80 Diamond Geezer Protector - retired

    Play the game, don't let the game play you.
  • Djrose - Lionheart
    Djrose - Lionheart Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Ok, so i am a 79 prot who can for the most part hold my own in everything but AS spiders :(.

    So here is what has worked for me

    - Purple gear with +6 +7 currently. I need three more purple gear but with the increase of def of like 50-75 it helps, and all you need to do is get your points up for most of it.
    - Solarflare 3's will help with def. Defense is always good, and if you notice HP dropping too much, a couple blood 3's help to keep your HP up, especially in TOK and AS if you notice bosses are targeting you.
    - Attack is crucial. Crit chance and defense are pretty crucial too. Attack is built upon the idea that the higher the attack, the more base damage + bonus. However this is a two part thing as crit chance means you will hit more often. Crit defense can be good but only use like one 3 for it. Crit chance i would say one or two just to help with the defense to lower the chances of getting pwnd.
    - Crit damage is the bread and butter of the prot. Dealing massive amounts of damage = holding agro = party doesnt get themselves killed.
    - Think about what you truly want to do. If you want to solo bosses then attack, HP and crit def. and regular defense. The regular hits the defense will go the distance.

    - but then again, im used to playing WoW and getting Epic gear and tanking everything that stood in my way. Adjust as needed but the skill set and the gems will need to go hand in hand im seeing here.
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  • bigkahuna27
    bigkahuna27 Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Ok, so i am a 79 prot who can for the most part hold my own in everything but AS spiders :(.

    So here is what has worked for me

    - Purple gear with +6 +7 currently. I need three more purple gear but with the increase of def of like 50-75 it helps, and all you need to do is get your points up for most of it.
    - Solarflare 3's will help with def. Defense is always good, and if you notice HP dropping too much, a couple blood 3's help to keep your HP up, especially in TOK and AS if you notice bosses are targeting you.
    - Attack is crucial. Crit chance and defense are pretty crucial too. Attack is built upon the idea that the higher the attack, the more base damage + bonus. However this is a two part thing as crit chance means you will hit more often. Crit defense can be good but only use like one 3 for it. Crit chance i would say one or two just to help with the defense to lower the chances of getting pwnd.
    - Crit damage is the bread and butter of the prot. Dealing massive amounts of damage = holding agro = party doesnt get themselves killed.
    - Think about what you truly want to do. If you want to solo bosses then attack, HP and crit def. and regular defense. The regular hits the defense will go the distance.

    - but then again, im used to playing WoW and getting Epic gear and tanking everything that stood in my way. Adjust as needed but the skill set and the gems will need to go hand in hand im seeing here.

    Looks good to me. Saving this for future reference.
  • Fhaze - Eyrda
    Fhaze - Eyrda Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Whoever says defense is useless either hasn't played this game in a while or doesn't know hot to build a prot.
    I believe defense and attack work in a 1:1 ratio, ergo more defense= more tanky.
    Runes have also made defense quite important to prots.
    On the wisdom tree, first dyos skill increases your attack by 5.5% of your defense + 0.5% per point in wisdom, and in nyos has the same principle except with a 10.50% base + 0.5 as long as you have fury instead of while mental focus is active.
    After Prot. of Strength and Blessing of the Stoneman, I have 1616 defense (only self buffs).
    i have 23 points in my wisdom tree as dyos (5.5 + (0.5*23)) which increases my attack by 17% of 1616 defense which comes up to 274 additional attack.

    If you want to be a good tank for pure pve, I suggest Ragefire, Bloodstone, Solareflares in order of importance for the base damage/ tankiness, and Goldsparks/ Shatters for the hits that can help steal aggro. Also make sure you have your rune tree as full as possible (Dyos: wisdom/ nature- Ferver gives acc only.) (Nyos: Benefits from all trees)
    .
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