3rd party program abuse investigation

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Comments

  • Chocolate_Rain - Storm Legion
    Chocolate_Rain - Storm Legion Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    hello thread
    We are still waiting for the weekly giveaway that Crab promised. :rolleyes: Can't wait to see the prizes,I still missed 3 days of Halloween rewards. ^_^

    when I read this post, I swear when I hit refresh I thought i was on a different thread.

    But that does make me think, what will be the weekly prize? If we do get one after these events happened that is.
    It's pretty sad when a game forum is more entertaining than the actual game itself.
  • PoPxTart - Lionheart
    PoPxTart - Lionheart Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    gonna have to write down at what post i stopped reading... when i wake up i bet i got loads to catch up on:D
    [SIGPIC]http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=34718012001&dateline=1429303178[/SIGPIC]

    <Forever with AlexejRomanov>
    PoPxTart - lvl 90 Wind Bard
    UsagiDrops - lvl 90 Frost Mage
    LimeBunnie - lvl 90 Divine Priest
  • Sphincter - Eyrda
    Sphincter - Eyrda Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    taeshi wrote: »
    Yes please investigate it thoroughly. I appreciate PWE staffs' hard work in keeping and promoting a fair and healthy gaming environment. However, Catalyst, as one of the most active guilds in Eryda server, is ready to take legal consultation if the bans are unfair and unjust for our members.

    Sincerely

    Your guild should probably read over the TOS before taking any legal action to avoid being laughed out of the office. Specifically items K and L of section 10. User Conduct. :p
  • renisbackagain
    renisbackagain Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Your guild should probably read over the TOS before taking any legal action to avoid being laughed out of the office. Specifically items K and L of section 10. User Conduct. :p

    You realize that if Cata pressured them into unbans, Final would benefit the most...right?
    Want someone on a PWE game banned? Post some loose info about your enemy on an account seller website and even after years of petitioning they're f***ed!
    http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3448841&postcount=1
    "Players that already received arena gear will be allowed to keep the gear (it's not their fault that the bug was there)." - RayPWE
  • Kahlana - Eyrda
    Kahlana - Eyrda Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    nragedrain wrote: »
    So you say "My arguments on this thread, except for one snipe at Fatexu and a comment from someone about arena gear, were directed NOT at Final/Cata." though i just can't help but notice how many times you say Final Cata in this thread guess not really directed just talking "about" lol



    *shakes head*
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    wintdkyo wrote: »
    1st, Google "Postgresql injection" to actually learn about this "hack" (You can also google "database injection", "sql injection", but why got google postgre?:p)

    2nd, if the word "hacking" is misused, then you want to use "cracking"? (You're not the only person who knows the real definition of "hacking") Again, sematics.:rolleyes:
    You must be really stupid if you think this was anywhere close to SQL injection. SQL injection affects the database of the server idiot. This "hack" was a simple data that the browser SENT to the server. It was client data.

    You know... how to put it simply... it's like your username, or your password that you input in the field, not in the actual database on the server. Data like that. You can input a wrong username and a wrong password -- arbitrary values. If the server did not check for this and logged you even if the account didn't exist, was that a "Hack"? Did you use 3rd party programs? You got some serious issues if you think it was any different.

    lol I've no words left to explain how clueless some people are and still post like they know so much about computers, browsers, or "hacking" or "cracking" as well.
  • Frost_Fang - Nyos
    Frost_Fang - Nyos Posts: 837 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    The only time the TOS is "strictly enforced" is if a GM PERSONALLY wants to ban you.
    Dunno what kinda opinion you got about yourself to think GMs had it out for you, seems a bit paranoid, lol... I bet they dont even know half the people they banned... wait actually, the people that banned you probably weren't any of the people that post on this forum, so how the heck would they know you o.o
    aishleen wrote: »
    Of course, ignorance is bliss, you can be the top in your little bubble, ignoring most other people who would own you, but in reality what you accomplish? What you prove? You only prove that you're so bad and admit defeat vs these people that you want "gone" because you just fail.

    You sir, remind me of Charlie Sheen, if you keep talking about winning long enough, maybe you even convince yourself despite the situation you are in now stating otherwise.

    How do they "prove that they admit defeat", if they admitted it, it would need no proving and if they didn't, there's no proving it. That line made no sense whatsoever... they obviously aren't admitting it as you don't admit being defeated by your own greed. You literally destroyed yourself.

    As for being very convinced everyone "hates" you and "wants you gone" whats up with us from other servers who still find u most likely deserved the ban and there's no injustice in that ? I guess you "owned" us too all they way from your server.
    Seriously, don't ever pop that bubble you live in, it's adorable to observe.
    Member of "KoS_" cause unless you stand for something, you will fall for anything.
  • PostgreSQL - Eyrda
    PostgreSQL - Eyrda Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You must be really stupid if you think this was anywhere close to SQL injection. SQL injection affects the database of the server idiot. This "hack" was a simple data that the browser SENT to the server. It was client data.

    You know... how to put it simply... it's like your username, or your password that you input in the field, not in the actual database on the server. Data like that. You can input a wrong username and a wrong password -- arbitrary values. If the server did not check for this and logged you even if the account didn't exist, was that a "Hack"? Did you use 3rd party programs? You got some serious issues if you think it was any different.

    lol I've no words left to explain how clueless some people are and still post like they know so much about computers, browsers, or "hacking" or "cracking" as well.

    this made me lolololololololol.
    [SIGPIC]http://rcupload.com/images/QeRFD.png[/SIGPIC]
    -->MSSQL Is NOT my alt !<--
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    this made me lolololololololol.
    Because certainly if I type in the field "some_random_user_name_just_to_show_how_much_of_an_idiot_youreallyare" and password "arbitrary_password_fornonexisting_username_on_the_server" it exists on the server everyone knows that. The server obviously doesn't check for it, it will just log me in a non existent account. Go back to school dummy.
  • PostgreSQL - Eyrda
    PostgreSQL - Eyrda Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Because certainly if I type in the field "some_random_user_name_just_to_show_how_much_of_an_idiot_youreallyare" and password "arbitrary_password_fornonexisting_username_on_the_server" it exists on the server everyone knows that. The server obviously doesn't check for it, it will just log me in a non existent account. Go back to school dummy.

    lmao lmao lmao

    I am in school and what you write about SQL makes 0 sense.
    LOL
    [SIGPIC]http://rcupload.com/images/QeRFD.png[/SIGPIC]
    -->MSSQL Is NOT my alt !<--
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    SQL? If you think browser works on SQL and not html and javascript then you have serious issues. :)
  • Frost_Fang - Nyos
    Frost_Fang - Nyos Posts: 837 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You must be really stupid if you think this was anywhere close to SQL injection. SQL injection affects the database of the server idiot. This "hack" was a simple data that the browser SENT to the server. It was client data.

    You know... how to put it simply... it's like your username, or your password that you input in the field, not in the actual database on the server. Data like that. You can input a wrong username and a wrong password -- arbitrary values. If the server did not check for this and logged you even if the account didn't exist, was that a "Hack"? Did you use 3rd party programs? You got some serious issues if you think it was any different.

    lol I've no words left to explain how clueless some people are and still post like they know so much about computers, browsers, or "hacking" or "cracking" as well.

    I believe neither of them rly cared to use the correct term, nor claims to know what exactly was it that you guys did. That was not the point, calling it firebug, hacking, glitching, exploiting is just a mean to get the point across.

    On the other note: 2 things were said which kinda cross points - Aishleen said you can't post from your banned account (you obviously are posting from your main) and 2nd: earlier it was said that both you and aishleen were banned.

    So which one is it ? You were not banned after all/on that acc. or you can forum-post even when getting banned ingame ?
    Member of "KoS_" cause unless you stand for something, you will fall for anything.
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You can't log after you're banned in game because they share the same login. I'd explain how to save an already logged-in session but that would just confuse little kids like postgre even more. :(

    And no it's not a "hack" but people love to throw that word around.
  • Frost_Fang - Nyos
    Frost_Fang - Nyos Posts: 837 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You can't log after you're banned in game because they share the same login. I'd explain how to save an already logged-in session but that would just confuse little kids like postgre even more. :(

    And no it's not a "hack" but people love to throw that word around.

    I see, so you only can't log-in, but if you stayed logged, you wouldn't get logged-out when banned. So you are banned like they said. Aye, tnx for your answer.
    Member of "KoS_" cause unless you stand for something, you will fall for anything.
  • wintdkyo
    wintdkyo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You know... how to put it simply... it's like your username, or your password that you input in the field, not in the actual database on the server. Data like that. You can input a wrong username and a wrong password -- arbitrary values. If the server did not check for this and logged you even if the account didn't exist, was that a "Hack"? Did you use 3rd party programs? You got some serious issues if you think it was any different.

    You clearly never have any experience on computer security. Simple Googling won't cut it Bors.

    Tell me, you say injection affects the database. Then, how does receiving an item via firebug (i.e. sending customized javascript queries) not constitute changing the database?

    Oh right, because nothing in the database was changed right?:rolleyes:

    I mean, people received items, but nothing in the database was changed right?:rolleyes:

    I mean come on! It's just something from the client side, right?

    Protip: learn what a real database injection is. Just haxing and getting admin pw is not the only form of it.
    And no it's not a "hack" but people love to throw that word around.

    Also read my earlier post (if you can find them). According to California law, this constitutes unauthorized access. Like it or not.
  • renisbackagain
    renisbackagain Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Dunno what kinda opinion you got about yourself to think GMs had it out for you, seems a bit paranoid, lol... I bet they dont even know half the people they banned... wait actually, the people that banned you probably weren't any of the people that post on this forum, so how the heck would they know you o.o

    at least a certain GM has had it out for me since 2008 prior to PWI going live. i don't know if he still works there or not. probably not, his posts stop in 2010.
    Want someone on a PWE game banned? Post some loose info about your enemy on an account seller website and even after years of petitioning they're f***ed!
    http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3448841&postcount=1
    "Players that already received arena gear will be allowed to keep the gear (it's not their fault that the bug was there)." - RayPWE
  • Shiister - Storm Legion
    Shiister - Storm Legion Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    at least a certain GM has had it out for me since 2008 prior to PWI going live. i don't know if he still works there or not. probably not, his posts stop in 2010.

    I lol'd.

    :rolleyes:
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    wintdkyo wrote: »
    Tell me, you say injection affects the database. Then, how does receiving an item via firebug (i.e. sending customized javascript queries) not constitute changing the database?
    WTF is a "customized javascript query"????? :confused:

    The BROWSER sends PIECES OF DATA NOT JAVASCRIPT. VALUES. FIELDS. If it sends a 2 instead of a 1, is that a hack? If it sends X instead of Y for username, is that a hack? Is that SQL injection? Nope, no code was sent to override the servers'. Just normal, valid, data.

    Moreover, again, you don't need Firebug -- are you just theorizing out of your **** or actually done this kind of things before? You ever debugged a webpage? Ever used firebug? Ever typed javascript code in URL bar to just change a field.

    A field.

    A stupid data field.

    Not code.

    You can change your USERNAME FIELD with javascript, is that hack? It's same as inputting it manually, exactly the same as far as server is concerned. Because guess what? The server only sees what the browser SENDS it. Javascript is CLIENT sided, the server NEVER sees it.

    Seriously, get a clue.
  • Trogotha - Storm Legion
    Trogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    *raise your hand if you have ever seen the roundabout clip from the National Lampoons European Vacation*

    *raises stubby arm and hand*

    For those actually curious about it and for a slight change of pace given the circular nature of this thread, the clip in question.

    I still call Walmart Wally World to this day. :D
    wintdkyo wrote: »
    You clearly never have any experience on computer security. Simple Googling won't cut it Bors.

    Tell me, you say injection affects the database. Then, how does receiving an item via firebug (i.e. sending customized javascript queries) not constitute changing the database?

    Oh right, because nothing in the database was changed right?:rolleyes:

    I mean, people received items, but nothing in the database was changed right?:rolleyes:

    I mean come on! It's just something from the client side, right?

    Protip: learn what a real database injection is. Just haxing and getting admin pw is not the only form of it.



    Also read my earlier post (if you can find them). According to California law, this constitutes unauthorized access. Like it or not.

    Sweet lord ha'mercy. Somebody needs to learn about GET, POST, and how javascript actually works on the client side. SQL injection is sending a full query string in an attempt to break the query interpreter and cause it to do something else than a proper query. Sending an altered but acceptable value of a client side variable is not SQL injection. Being able to send a straight item id is at best lazy coding and horrible security at worst.

    I see the ITT grads are out in force here. :rolleyes:
    Dear PWE Staff: I can haz avatar nao plox? :D
    For SCIENCE (and the LULZ)!
  • wintdkyo
    wintdkyo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    WTF is a "customized javascript query"????? :confused:

    The BROWSER sends PIECES OF DATA NOT JAVASCRIPT. VALUES. FIELDS. If it sends a 2 instead of a 1, is that a hack? If it sends X instead of Y for username, is that a hack? Is that SQL injection? Nope, no code was sent to override the servers'. Just normal, valid, data.

    Moreover, again, you don't need Firebug -- are you just theorizing out of your **** or actually done this kind of things before? You ever debugged a webpage? Ever used firebug? Ever typed javascript code in URL bar to just change a field.

    A field.

    A stupid data field.

    Rage more on semantics, semantics. You get the point.

    I mean seriously though. Browser does send a data, but what type of data? It's a QUERY. And guess what? The intentionality behind this drama constitutes UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS. (I am capping stuff instead of bolding, because your post shows that the visuals are more effective:o)

    You see Bors, did you know that there are many types of HTML forms that are available. Here is a beautiful thing. Some forms allows the user to fill almost any type of junk the user wants, such as this text box. You can send any values in it, and once you submit, your browser sends a QUERY which includes the VALUE of the text to the database (Meh, always confuses which is which, POST or GET data).

    Now, let me tell you something. There are other form types as well. Such as a drop down menu, which forces a user a CHOICE of VALUES for a QUERY. Oh yes, you can use whatever mechanism (You think Firebug is the first choice? Please, there are multiple programming languages that can handle sending customized QUERIES with whatever VALUES the user chooses) that is available to send a VALUE that is OUTSIDE the CHOICE, and yes, this is indeed a hack according to California Penal Code section 502.

    Why? Because this constitutes unauthorized access according to California Law. Although you probably knows this, PWE, according to ToS, is under the jurisdiction of California Law. Not New York, not Badden-Wuttemberg Germany, not HongKong. No. California.

    You disagree that this is the hack? Yell at the law.

    By the way, the database did indeed accept the customized QUERIES of the bad people:(. Because nothing broke, and also because the database ACCEPTED those QUERIES in the first place, why is it that a lot of people think this "incident" is bad?:confused:
    Sweet lord ha'mercy. Somebody needs to learn about GET, POST, and how javascript actually works on the client side. SQL injection is sending a full query string in an attempt to break the query interpreter and cause it to do something else than a proper query. Sending an altered but acceptable value of a client side variable is not SQL injection. Being able to send a straight item id is at best lazy coding and horrible security at worst.

    I see the ITT grads are out in force here. :rolleyes:
    True to what you have said. I am presupposing (and meh got no evidence) that an SQL injection took place on the grounds that unobtainable items were accessible to users. i.e. it wasn't a simple change that id value. Why? Because I am also presupposing (and meh got a lot of no evidence :P) the database would've not accepted the queries with the custom value due to some rules in the database. Ex: Only GMs in the server can hold a weapon that one shots people.

    I can be wrong on the injection though, because I got a lot of blah evidence. However, I know you can do injection using firebug on a poorly designed system. Who knows, PWE might not have any security holes xD

    Either way, injection OR not, it constitutes unauthorized access, which is a crime in California
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    IDK if you're just trolling or playing smart. So if the value was a catgirl like so many people got banned for, that's perfectly fine? Since it's in the choices available? Seriously, stop trying to dig yourself deeper when you really have no clue about it. You sound like some sci fi author at this point.

    Firebug is not a programming language and neither is javascript. Not sure what you're smoking on that either. Script language =/= programming language.

    This text field allows everything to be input. And a data value allows numbers to be input which is the case.

    If a number isn't supposed to be there then that's responsibility of server.

    PS: javascript is never input into a query because... it's just a set of commands that the browser does for itself, and sends only data back. No code was sent. (not that the server would even execute javascript to begin with, it would see it as gibberish, I assume it would execute SQL code... but not like SQL code was sent).

    Guess what? Pressing refresh or any other browser function? That's a command to browser too. In fact you can refresh with javascript since it's just a command just like clicking on that button. That is hack too?

    Also there was no unauthorized access. You didn't access anything. :eek:

    EDIT: javascript:document.location.reload(true)
  • wintdkyo
    wintdkyo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    So if the value was a catgirl like so many people got banned for, that's perfectly fine? Since it's in the choices available?
    What's perfectly fine? I don't find it perfectly fine that you insert the value catgirl using a custom query to the database, because, eh, how do you put it... the user is accessing a certain resource beyond the intentionality of PWE. You disagree with this? You think it's perfectly fine that you insert the value cat girl?:confused:
    Firebug is not a programming language and neither is javascript.
    Never said it was a programming language. Quote my post, then talk. (I was referring to PHP/Pearl for the other programming language. CURL extension does wonders:D)

    PS: javascript is never input into a query because... it's just a set of commands that the browser does for itself, and sends only data back. No code was sent. (not that the server would even execute javascript to begin with, it would see it as gibberish, I assume it would execute SQL code... but not like SQL code was sent).
    Agreed. If people want to see real action, download Wireshark and see what's under the hood.:p
    Guess what? Pressing refresh or any other browser function? That's a command to browser too. In fact you can refresh with javascript since it's just a command just like clicking on that button. That is hack too?
    Again, I don't live in California, but read the law. Here is the link: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=484-502.9
    Scroll down to 502 and if you believe your example does not fit, well then you have a case.

    EDIT
    Also there was no unauthorized access. You didn't access anything. :eek:
    People got access to items that was not authorized. Items as represented as data. Data as specified by the law:
    (6) "Data" means a representation of information, knowledge,
    facts, concepts, computer software, computer programs or
    instructions. Data may be in any form, in storage media, or as stored
    in the memory of the computer or in transit or presented on a
    display device.

    I think you really don't like how California labels a hack. Let me help you :) Tell the governor to change the law so that you can be exonerated:
    Mailing address:

    Governor Jerry Brown
    c/o State Capitol, Suite 1173
    Sacramento, CA 95814

    Phone: (916) 445-2841
    Fax: (916) 558-3160

    Welcome!
  • aishleen
    aishleen Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    You sir, remind me of Charlie Sheen, if you keep talking about winning long enough, maybe you even convince yourself despite the situation you are in now stating otherwise.

    How do they "prove that they admit defeat", if they admitted it, it would need no proving and if they didn't, there's no proving it. That line made no sense whatsoever... they obviously aren't admitting it as you don't admit being defeated by your own greed. You literally destroyed yourself.

    As for being very convinced everyone "hates" you and "wants you gone" whats up with us from other servers who still find u most likely deserved the ban and there's no injustice in that ? I guess you "owned" us too all they way from your server.
    Seriously, don't ever pop that bubble you live in, it's adorable to observe.
    I don't even know what you're talking about, I wasn't even talking about the glitch and if it was handled the right way or not. And I was definitely not talking about people from other servers.

    It was about noobs who got butthurt I owned them so many times, and now think they're so pro cuz I'm not there (regardless of reason), when in fact it just proves how they admit defeat indirectly (since you can't seem to comprehend my post). As in, they need me gone to have any sort of real success.

    They, of course, don't actually admit this directly, but their actions prove otherwise.
  • Drachus - Eyrda
    Drachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Yes, Shyren. I admit defeat. It's all about YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and not the mass of people banned from across all servers. It's not about what actually happened either and the conflicted opinions on what is right or wrong. It's just all about you and our jealousy of how super duper amazing you are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    wintdkyo wrote: »
    What's perfectly fine? I don't find it perfectly fine that you insert the value catgirl using a custom query to the database, because, eh, how do you put it... the user is accessing a certain resource beyond the intentionality of PWE. You disagree with this? You think it's perfectly fine that you insert the value cat girl?:confused:
    oh my GOD you are dumb as a brick. Stop talking about things you have no clue about.

    You don't insert sht. The browser sends Server, Character and ID or something like that to the server. There's no CUSTOM query it's just DIFFERENT DATA. Not something EXTRA or something it WOULD NOT HAVE SENT. Holy ****.

    Let's say ID 5 = Seashade Orb
    ID 66 = Catgirl.

    So instead of sending Server 34189, Character 198439, ID 5 to the mail server

    it sends Server 34189, Character 198439, ID 66 to it.

    and server complies, sends item with ID 66 to Character 198349 on Server 34189. (lets translate, in english: Catgirl send to Character "Test" on "Eyrda")

    these are purely theoretical numbers pulled out of my ****, to serve as an example because you obviously can't get it.

    Word of advice: stop using words you don't know what mean. I'd prefer if you use dumbed down versions so at least you would try to explain the "point" instead of sounding like a script kiddie.
  • aishleen
    aishleen Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Yes, Shyren. I admit defeat. It's all about YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and not the mass of people banned from across all servers. It's not about what actually happened either and the conflicted opinions on what is right or wrong. It's just all about you and our jealousy of how super duper amazing you are.
    I'm not the one who started to talk about me, you might wanna scroll back in this thread to see who the raging kids are, some of them in your guild.
  • wintdkyo
    wintdkyo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    semantics semantics

    You know the funny thing is? Let's for a moment concede that everything I said is ****. Birds swim under water. Romney is the next President. The New York Yankees won the last World series.

    Heck, all of it is ****. I am actually a science fiction writer who gets inspiration from [insert movie here] Let's just assume all of it as ****.

    Feel better?

    Now.

    Take a deep breath.

    Wait one sec. You rage every little thing I say except one. (inb4 I am not ragging, no idea why you think that way:rolleyes:)

    What you are describing on the exploit.. is .. a .. hack. Deal with it :) California law says it. You know, **** it. Everything I said is ****, so why don't you double check by calling the Attorney General of California? Here, the contact info:

    Attorney General of California
    Opinion Unit, Stephanie Grimes
    P.O. Box 944255
    Sacramento, CA 94244-2550

    Welcome
  • Drachus - Eyrda
    Drachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    aishleen wrote: »
    I'm not the one who started to talk about me, you might wanna scroll back in this thread to see who the raging kids are, some of them in your guild.

    Like 1 person from Envy mentioned Final. No one mentioned you specifically except thinking that the renxxx guy was you. Honest mistake there.

    Please please please, tell me this is a forum troll pretending to be Aishleen/Shyren. For if it's actually Aishleen, your credibility and respect has tanked for a lot of people - not just Envy (who by the way actually had a lot of respect for you, including me). This isn't just a guess either; it's what people have actually told me after you started your rabid arrogance fest.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SilverBloo - Eyrda
    SilverBloo - Eyrda Posts: 66 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    All i want to know is.. When are the innocent ones getting released from being banned? I mean, if you ban those that are proven guilty, then fine... But to ban those that you THINK are guilty? That's not right..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    - Because real vamps don't sparkle -
  • aishleen
    aishleen Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Like 1 person from Envy mentioned Final. No one mentioned you specifically except thinking that the renxxx guy was you. Honest mistake there.
    Honest mistake? You mean after he said repeatedly that he's not me, and tons of ppl still went on clinging on it making fun of it? I will scroll back if you really want me to but I'm sure Quanto was one of them.
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