Any class can overDPS a bloodlust warrior (on Storm)?

Ginius - Illyfue
Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
edited October 2012 in General Discussion
Hey guys,

I'm making this thread because it seems I was wrong about some things but I want to be sure, since there is not a lot of bloodlust warrior on Illyfue, my lack of knowledge here seems to be important.

Some well known (or so it seems) bloodlust warriors from the storm legion server are arguing that no sin, vamp, mage can outdps them, and to me this is disturbing.
Well to be exact they are "laughing" at the idea that one of those class could ever hold aggro versus their DPS.

If this is true, my understanding of the DPS of a bloodlust warrior is quite bad and I should check it again myself sometimes in order to not do this kind of mistake again.


However I want to get opinions before, so is it true that those classes will never be able to hold aggro from a bloodlust warrior?
Any of those classes succeeded in keeping aggro from a bloodlust warrior with similar gears and masteries?


I am of course talking on the long run, and not for a boss fight lasting a couple of minutes, and for endgame builds :)

I thank you in advance for the inputs, it will help me to increase my knowledge about warriors, and who knows, I might switch tree :)
Post edited by Ginius - Illyfue on
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Comments

  • SkinnyPupp - Storm Legion
    SkinnyPupp - Storm Legion Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    it's obviously just one bloodlust war on Storm that would have the audacity to say that.

    he's full of excrement. an equally geared sin/vamp/mage (masteries included) would easily steal aggro.
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  • Summanus - Illyfue
    Summanus - Illyfue Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Stealing aggro and outDPS is 2 diff things. Equally geared Edge Sin over time would easily outDPS a bloodlust warr. Aggro tho might be kept by the warr a they are a tank class.

    Saying that Bloodlust is probably one of 3 classes that have superior spike dmg output in the game. Dark Vamp and Edge Sin being the other two.
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  • Juuz - Eyrda
    Juuz - Eyrda Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i have played both elemental and phantom trees equally, i have both masteries leveled equally. if i go bloodlust i almost do double the dps i can as elemental. and i can probably outdps/steal aggro from any1 as blood. but thats about all the phantom tree has, is super high dps. inferior in alot of other aspects.
  • parking
    parking Posts: 1,101 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have BOTH a Blood and an Ele war ,,, The Blood can easily out DPS the ele,,

    I have seen an Blood War do 125K Crits on a lv 80 GL boss ,,,,,,,,,,,,, very Impressive ,,

    I have a Friend thats Blood war,, Holds Aggro in EXO,,,,,, Ive seen other pull it for a sec or 2

    then he has it back, His Name is beside the EXO boss for over 90% of the kill,,,,

    as for Holding Aggro ?? a War doesnt have the threat,,

    My 77 MM pulls aggro off wars all the time

    My 79 Inf Mage pulls aggro all the time ,,

    as for Pulling the ONE Mob away from a Blood war,, Hmmm never ever paid it much attention

    Who really give a flying Frig at a rolling donut anyway??

    I Do know with the right Gear/Gems a Blood has massive Crit/repeat Crit potential

    Me myself, have always thought Sins were over rated, and never see anyone actually call for a SIN to do an Instance..

    Lets put it this way, Id rather do ToK with a War, then a Sin, wouldnt you ???
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  • Summanus - Illyfue
    Summanus - Illyfue Posts: 419 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    @Ginius - if you want more info then u should talk to Aiu from Immo - probably the best geared bloodlust warr on our server. He did Belphegor this week as I watched, kept aggro from everyone there.

    Then again he wanted those boots, and was determined, so there was really gonna be one winner. Shame they were agile boots for Warr tho :D

    Issue is on our server you cant compare the different classes, if u could get Aiu, SirWilly, Velvet and Banja/Rev to see who keeps aggro and does most DPS on a boss, we could really compare.
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  • CuteNDeadl - Storm Legion
    CuteNDeadl - Storm Legion Posts: 2,401 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    blood > ele in terms of damage. But damage isnt everything..
  • Thuvia - Storm Legion
    Thuvia - Storm Legion Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I would love to know what everyone is using to measure dps. Personally I haven't been able to see dot damage in combat logs so either I'm blind or it isn't there. Judging by "who has aggro" isn't the best. Just looking at big numbers from a crit doesn't cut it either.

    So how are you guys measuring it?
  • sprayn00b
    sprayn00b Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    285k_zpsbc331c97.png
  • Monotonous - Storm Legion
    Monotonous - Storm Legion Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    blood is better than ele when gears are top
  • Thrashz - Storm Legion
    Thrashz - Storm Legion Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited October 2012
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  • Thrashz - Storm Legion
    Thrashz - Storm Legion Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i have played both elemental and phantom trees equally, i have both masteries leveled equally. if i go bloodlust i almost do double the dps i can as elemental. and i can probably outdps/steal aggro from any1 as blood. but thats about all the phantom tree has, is super high dps. inferior in alot of other aspects.



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  • Juuz - Eyrda
    Juuz - Eyrda Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    blood is better than ele when gears are top

    in a PvE dps setting only.
  • Ginius - Illyfue
    Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sprayn00b wrote: »
    285k_zpsbc331c97.png

    I've never doubted the power of DPH of bloodlust warrior, so this ss doesn't prove anything ;)

    However from what everyone said, their DPS seems to be at the top too, that I didn't know, thanks for the input guys :)

    @Summanus : stealing aggro = outdps for those 4 classes (if you take out the aegis warrior tree which generate threat, and the fact that the burn from fire mage is not counted for aggro).
    About Aiu, thanks for the advice, I won't check myself since I'm PvP built, but do you have any idea about his mastery? I might check the fights he's in, and the gears of players around him then :)

    Again thanks for the input :)
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  • VelvetStrike - Illyfue
    VelvetStrike - Illyfue Posts: 1,126 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Aiu is definately coming close with his dps, i have no clue about his mastery level but his gear has all good ID and high level offensive gems. My gems are maxed out but my mastery is quite low.

    When we do GoS he got aggro whenever he cna use divine uphold at the start of a boss, whenever we do twins he got aggro for a short moment but over the long run i will have it. On twins i see hits around 280k from him, this is pretty close to my 320k's.

    Now i'm not a warrior ofcourse but for example the lv30 edge-sin skill gouge is very weak compared to the lv30 bloodlust skil crimson arc. As he hits nearly twice as much with it than me. But then again, there are many better winged and mastery level bloodlusts than aiushtha and they don't even seem to tickle the boss so it's all about playing the class right and not how OP a tree and your gear is.
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  • sprayn00b
    sprayn00b Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I've never doubted the power of DPH of bloodlust warrior, so this ss doesn't prove anything ;)

    However from what everyone said, their DPS seems to be at the top too, that I didn't know, thanks for the input guys :)

    @Summanus : stealing aggro = outdps for those 4 classes (if you take out the aegis warrior tree which generate threat, and the fact that the burn from fire mage is not counted for aggro).
    About Aiu, thanks for the advice, I won't check myself since I'm PvP built, but do you have any idea about his mastery? I might check the fights he's in, and the gears of players around him then :)

    Again thanks for the input :)


    lololololol proves nothing? If you knew anything about the tree you would know that a blood is capable of pulling off crits like for the whole duration of fury and du. equal geared ele warr probably gets around 90k crits with LS under the same conditions, crits less also crits less often for a shorter duration. So that being said that one hit of sacrifice is equal to 3 hits of lightning slash (if your lucky enough to get them all crit). The second hit of sacrfice there was about 260k.
  • Ginius - Illyfue
    Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sprayn00b wrote: »
    lololololol proves nothing? If you knew anything about the tree you would know that a blood is capable of pulling off crits like for the whole duration of fury and du. equal geared ele warr probably gets around 90k crits with LS under the same conditions, crits less also crits less often for a shorter duration. So that being said that one hit of sacrifice is equal to 3 hits of lightning slash (if your lucky enough to get them all crit). The second hit of sacrfice there was about 260k.

    When did I compare blood war with ele war in this thread? :D
    Also I was clear about talking about a long run aggro, not about something during DU which has a long CD but yes sacrifice and bloodlust fury sounds to make it.

    People have made it clear that their DPS is at the top, I get it :)

    @ velvet: thanks for the info :)
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  • sprayn00b
    sprayn00b Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    When did I compare blood war with ele war in this thread? :D
    Also I was clear about talking about a long run aggro, not about something during DU which has a long CD but yes sacrifice and bloodlust fury sounds to make it.

    People have made it clear that their DPS is at the top, I get it :)

    @ velvet: thanks for the info :)

    I think that your underestimating how much damage is caused when DU is up, it has a huge impact on overall dps. Also in the last thread you made it pretty clear that according to you blood could never out DPS ele.
  • PostgreSQL - Eyrda
    PostgreSQL - Eyrda Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I got full purple gear set by running arena with a bloodlust warrior =.=' i dont think they are bad.
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  • FeverFrosty - Eyrda
    FeverFrosty - Eyrda Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sprayn00b wrote: »
    I think that your underestimating how much damage is caused when DU is up, it has a huge impact on overall dps. Also in the last thread you made it pretty clear that according to you blood could never out DPS ele.

    Its honestly hard to tell. I think the general opinion of people is that blood warriors can do more spike damage, but ele warriors have shorter cds and more crit chance with their skills. Hybrid warriors on the other hand have the most dps out of the 3 builds because of their overall sustained damage output. If you are looking for a warrior to hold aggro, just roll a aegis warrior, dont expect much in damage from them though XD

    Ps. Where's Drachus when you need a blood warrior to weigh in on this subject -_-
  • Ginius - Illyfue
    Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sprayn00b wrote: »
    I think that your underestimating how much damage is caused when DU is up, it has a huge impact on overall dps. Also in the last thread you made it pretty clear that according to you blood could never out DPS ele.

    Hum even if my english skills are poor, read again, I made it pretty clear that to me noone was better.
    It seems that I was wrong about both being close, but no, I didn't say that "blood could never out DPS ele" and I quote since you seem to not beleive me ^^:

    http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3881871&postcount=4
    As far as ele war goes, some say that they can outdps blood, some say that blood outdps them, for me it should be pretty even at end game, even if I have yet to find a blood war able to steal/keep aggro from me with similar gears/mastery, I can understand that it could go one way or the other.

    So I do agree I was wrong about both being close, however your :
    "you made it pretty clear that according to you blood could never out DPS ele."

    is either a lie or a misunderstanding :)
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  • sprayn00b
    sprayn00b Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Hum even if my english skills are poor, read again, I made it pretty clear that to me noone was better.
    It seems that I was wrong about both being close, but no, I didn't say that "blood could never out DPS ele" and I quote since you seem to not beleive me ^^:

    http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3881871&postcount=4



    So I do agree I was wrong about both being close, however your :
    "you made it pretty clear that according to you blood could never out DPS ele."

    is either a lie or a misunderstanding :)

    Missunderstanding sorry my bad, I could have sworn you said it lolz.
  • Ginius - Illyfue
    Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    sprayn00b wrote: »
    Missunderstanding sorry my bad, I could have sworn you said it lolz.

    np, I got tired sometimes when reading forum too :p
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  • dr4g0n
    dr4g0n Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Dark Vamp with equal gear and mastery will out dps all...i think

    the reason is simple charm strike non crit 300 % dmage crit well if u get 440 % its 1400% dmage rofl and also not like war vamp have less cast time and cooldown ...i think.

    So Dark Vamp for the wineer
  • sprayn00b
    sprayn00b Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I see where this thread is going. deja vu... bring on entire pages of math and theoretical values. im outa here xD
  • Zonal - Eyrda
    Zonal - Eyrda Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Why exactly does it matter who has the highest dps?
  • Arizll - Eyrda
    Arizll - Eyrda Posts: 1,551 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Why exactly does it matter who has the highest dps?

    Some people like to min-max in a game.
  • onthelow
    onthelow Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    well from my experience our top DPS in teamvisa is rainz. the sins, vamps and others can not take agro from him even for a second if started at the same time. like i have always said even though it was argued with me blood at high lvls is the best dps if u have the gears and im glad its starting to come around.

    heres a fun one from the FWIC, this is a taiwan blood war who hit me with sac during rift on my toon there. granted all toons had lvl 100 masteries and resists. this is insane when u think about it. lvl 3 wings, and arena gear with a 77 eb weapon all at 100% reforge. was 8600 attack with the BF3 from the pet.

    9lles6.jpg
  • Zonal - Eyrda
    Zonal - Eyrda Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Ah, so will players dump their sins to become blood wars?
  • onthelow
    onthelow Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    to do that kind of damage it takes a few tricks though. blood wars will become like sins after the newest patch in CN comes around. 1 crimson elegence rune with high energy so u can span crimson arc and the thunder silence talen which changes to where arc can silence also. this means u can chain cast crimson arc and possibly completely keep someone silenced with no end if u have the right gears
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    onthelow wrote: »
    to do that kind of damage it takes a few tricks though. blood wars will become like sins after the newest patch in CN comes around. 1 crimson elegence rune with high energy so u can span crimson arc and the thunder silence talen which changes to where arc can silence also. this means u can chain cast crimson arc and possibly completely keep someone silenced with no end if u have the right gears
    Wait crimson arc can silence on crit after patch? You still need to crit though... and btw sins also can spam throat seal with runes (42% rapid shadow) but you don't see them always stun locking (not silence) because you don't crit that much against good players at least anyway.
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