12v12 Rants

Borsook - Eyrda
Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
edited September 2012 in General Discussion
Complaints gathered for 12v12, mostly mine but I included others' as well.

1) Solo queue imbalance. No, I don't necessarily mean that you need premade teams or anything like that since I know why it is solo in the first place. However, a solo queue needs to not be 100% random, it needs to split in brackets and qualifiers. You could end up with a total **** composition, which leads to point 2.

2) Party Compositions. Some classes SUCK without a healer, notably the squishy ones. How is it fair to be 100% random? Sins weren't OP enough now the squishies need to bend over when they have no priest too? And I don't only mean necessarily HAVING a priest, because with random queue, there's a huge difference between having and actually, healing. Some priests suck and don't heal, leading to point 3.

3) As a priest, not healing or purifying in PvP should be a bannable offense. Going for flags to capture them while others are fighting and needing heals (capturing while others defend you is fine) should be a bannable offense. GMs need to get their act and start enforcing this. Priests should be heal slaves, period, end of story. Just cause no one else is getting flags doesn't mean YOU have to do it. You're a priest, do your damn job and HEAL. Tip: flags don't need heals, so FORGET THEM. Which leads to point 4.

Yet again, a PvP system made for sins (maybe by sins too!). Make the game more unplayable for squishies and wonder why those classes are more and more dead endgame. PWI wasn't broken enough rite.

4) Qualification. People who just PvP for no reason without DEFENDING flags. Yes I mean defending, not how people yell everytime "get flags". You don't get flags, you defend them while getting the nearby ones. Guess what? Enemy will go for YOUR flags, so its cat and mouse game? How do you intend to win if you are losing to begin with?

However, some people are incapable of realizing this very very simple concept, no matter how much you explain/caps at them. So, include a Knowledge Quiz and a test before you can even queue for 12v12. PvP quiz as well. Gear check too -- or at least put the scrubs in 0/12 green or shard gear in parties with other such scrubs only so they don't freaking handicap the unlucky side that gets them. Actually, add an IQ test also. Not to score too high, but to weed out the complete illiterate.

By the way AFKing inside = bannable offense too.

5) Camping. Camping a base when a side is clearly more OP. The buff you get from full charge is pathetically weak in this case, because guess what? The buff the campers have, aka REDHAND, is ten times better.

So either remove redhand near someone's base, or make it so you can actually have a path from the base to some other place, not just the east and west flags, which are SO close to the base that they will not lose redhand if you go there and they follow you, then get more orbs off you, and continue to camp more.

6) Class Imbalances. Yeah, the age old topic, but of course yet another system where sins are glitched AND overpowered.

The area near flags should make things non immune to them right? That's the whole idea, which is why you can't use Rocky Protection, or Stealth, near a flag. Right? So you can't capture flags easily.

Here's what. Shadow Protection -- the combat stealth of sins, does NOT, I repeat, does N.O.T. get removed near a flag. Sins, as usual, CAN capture flags without being seen (or immune if they're eva, you'll never hit them in stealth). While you're defending a flag and taking a long long long battle at it, a sin can come, ninja the flag, and have the flag give ENEMY points while you're busy fighting and not being able to get it back.

Swift Evasion -- not tested, but I assume it works. Of course, cause you know, sins :(

More things: stealth, incredibly broken in 12v12. Camp flags or anything. Let me get this straight, sins are "supposed to be" the best combat class 1v1 at least anyways according to morons, but they are clearly the best OUT OF COMBAT class due to stealth. Incredible balance yep. I'm shocked!

Minding your own business in 12v12 while a sin sleeps you? Yep. One of those things. Nothing compares to this. NOTHING. A vampire dark bonding you? A mage transforming you? Hey, at least you can SEE THOSE. You can, you know, turn the other way if needed.

Yep, pls give more stuff to sins.
Post edited by Borsook - Eyrda on
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Comments

  • PostgreSQL - Eyrda
    PostgreSQL - Eyrda Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    less QQ more pew pew.
    [SIGPIC]http://rcupload.com/images/QeRFD.png[/SIGPIC]
    -->MSSQL Is NOT my alt !<--
  • Firebat - Eyrda
    Firebat - Eyrda Posts: 4,190 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Wtb group of bards to keep entire enemy team perma slept for entire match.
    (Imagine the wc raging....)
    [Sigpic][/Sigpic]
    GreyjoyKraken -Firebat has been revealed as an evil bridge troll. Seek him out and solve his riddles three to get the mythical 2013 holiday box.
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    An all-bard 12v12 would be kinda hilarious, unfortunately people don't stick all 12 in one spot :p
  • Firebat - Eyrda
    Firebat - Eyrda Posts: 4,190 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    An all-bard 12v12 would be kinda hilarious, unfortunately people don't stick all 12 in one spot :p

    Nah... I'm sure they are dumb enough to try to rescue their team....
    [Sigpic][/Sigpic]
    GreyjoyKraken -Firebat has been revealed as an evil bridge troll. Seek him out and solve his riddles three to get the mythical 2013 holiday box.
  • Brim_McRoy - Eyrda
    Brim_McRoy - Eyrda Posts: 3,047 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    less QQ more pew pew.

    less pew pew more KILL F$^#&*G EVERYTHING
    FWs only Acolyte of Khorne --> warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Khorne
    Loki and Crabclaw: The Lost Gods of FW

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Axym - Lionheart
    Axym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    less pew pew more KILL F$^#&*G EVERYTHING

    D: what'd the pew pew ever do to you!? QQ murderer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I agree with the first points about noobs and needing a "score" for matching (not as extreme as arena though), but your QQs about sins in the end are hilarious.

    Yes Shadow Protection is bugged that it works that's all I'll agree with though.

    Swift Evasion you kidding? When you capture a flag you can NOT be attacked or interrupted, this includes a "miss" or any kind of CC like morph.

    Mage morph with 10s CD is way more broken than stealth you can almost perma morph someone while a flag is being taken, similar to shadow protection "Abuse".


    But it was obvious before it got released that on such a battlefield with random que, the classes that do best solo are gonna shine, and not those that support or need support. Warriors (especially after getting RH), vamps, water bards and sins, are one of best solo'ers, so they shine the most in 12's

    by soloer I do NOT mean 1v1, I mean going alone or with little support from comrades (either being dumb or undergeared or bad class composition) against 1 or more enemies.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lapisdurus - Dyos
    Lapisdurus - Dyos Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    #1-4: no offense, but I mostly disagree

    It's balanced because it happenes to both sides. It evens out over time. Every complaint like priest not healing, flags not being defended etc will also happen in the opposing team. Fair enough.
    Also it's only been 2 weeks now. Casual players will learn in time.

    The PvP elite will have to learn to play with small fish I guess. Being a small fish, I like that. Event though I often enough get 2-hitted by an elite, and not QQ-ing about it.

    No rules on how someone else plays. If a priest wants to play rambo, it's his choice to do so. I guess you'll have to adapt, not make others adapt to what you want them to do.

    If you want control over that, you'll have to go to Open PVP Guild wars, arena, and rift. There you can tell your team or guild what to do, kick those not "intelligent", equipped or good enough. Good that 12v12 is not designed that way

    I aggree with the "AFK'ing just to farm points" issue. Maybe something can be done about that.

    #5: one base has no back-route to the right, to the farm. should be added for balance. Camping enemy base with redhand seemed not so much of an issue to me, with left/right back routes.

    #6: cf. more then enough threads.

    But agree with a sin+stealth being overpowered in (out-of-combat) 12v12.

    Maybe show redhanded opponents on minimap, even stealthed sin.

    Especially I don't like that any sin can catch you with your pant's down - meaning: wrath disabled - if he likes. Should add something like auto-enable wrath in case a stealthed sin 1st-hits you (before his hit is calculated).
  • mrjuu
    mrjuu Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I support borsack's idea to nerve sins.
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    #1-4: no offense, but I mostly disagree

    It's balanced because it happenes to both sides. It evens out over time. Every complaint like priest not healing, flags not being defended etc will also happen in the opposing team. Fair enough.
    Also it's only been 2 weeks now. Casual players will learn in time.

    The PvP elite will have to learn to play with small fish I guess. Being a small fish, I like that. Event though I often enough get 2-hitted by an elite, and not QQ-ing about it.

    No rules on how someone else plays. If a priest wants to play rambo, it's his choice to do so. I guess you'll have to adapt, not make others adapt to what you want them to do.

    If you want control over that, you'll have to go to Open PVP Guild wars, arena, and rift. There you can tell your team or guild what to do, kick those not "intelligent", equipped or good enough. Good that 12v12 is not designed that way
    Open PvP Guild Wars, arena and rift, do not give White Runes or Brilliances of Glory.

    You talk like 12v12 is strictly for fun ONLY and that all the rewards gained from it can be gained somehow else. So, point invalid.

    Now, for the main point, you missed the point. What you said is how it should be, how it was designed to be, but this doesn't happen in reality.

    They have an equal chance of having bad team, I know that. However, the chance for BOTH to have a bad team is small.

    The chance for both to have good team, is small as well.

    It's not about "I win" vs "They win". It's about balanced fights, they don't really happen. You're stuck with a **** priest? GG AFK till its over. Oh, this time THEY are stuck with a **** priest. Auto win.

    That's fun?

    Chances for both teams to be "equally balanced" is small as hell in practice. "Over time" it evens out? How come, it does not keep record of any past matches, it's purely random!

    Maybe if you look at like 10 matches at a time, you'll see it's even out. But who cares? I'm talking an individual match. Most are one sided. That's a fact.
  • fthawe
    fthawe Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    WELL, Blue team is disadvantaged from only a left and middle route, and clear frontal area.
    Whereas red has hilly ground to protect spawners and both left/right.

    And by saying one team 'your team' is the weaker one, in other queues your team may be imbalanced. In other words, it'll play out evenly overall.
  • Lapisdurus - Dyos
    Lapisdurus - Dyos Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Open PvP Guild Wars, arena and rift, do not give White Runes or Brilliances of Glory.
    You get a single rune no matter if you win or loose. You can get 3k points per day max. You'll reach the max faster if you win of course, but if you're bent on it, you can simple chain loose till max.

    Brilliance of Glory ... guess the majority of players don't own an EB weapon and don't care. Also a single win per day for 5... out of 3,2k need if true ... you probably collect in guild as well. So if you per chance loose all day, 5 pieces lost ...
    You talk like 12v12 is strictly for fun ONLY and that all the rewards gained from it can be gained somehow else. So, point invalid.

    as above you get most rewards and can have fun as well
    It's not about "I win" vs "They win". It's about balanced fights, they don't really happen. You're stuck with a **** priest? GG AFK till its over. Oh, this time THEY are stuck with a **** priest. Auto win.

    That's fun?
    And arena and all the strategies of down-farming for more easier fights? I guess most PvP elites don't mind unbalanced fight's there to reach their 2,7k. Difference is, they have control over the imbalance and it mostly favors them. Same with Rift. Hardcore PvP guilds wiping casual guilds? No complaint's because the Guild is in control in some respect due to auction process, and who they send into a rift

    Being on the losing side in 12v12 .. not to be influenced, at least yet.

    I don't mind a clear loss, happens often enough in arena, duel, rift etc.

    But I like that in the average, I'm also on the winning side. And that I can contribute by evading PvP and capturing flags. The act of playing a 12v12 is what is enjoyable, a small success of getting a flag, a skirmish with some players, ... I don't really care if it's 1000:3600 or 3500:3600. The smaller scope of me playing my char in the battle stay's equally funny. And no big difference in rewards, cf above
  • Lapisdurus - Dyos
    Lapisdurus - Dyos Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Open PvP Guild Wars, arena and rift, do not give White Runes or Brilliances of Glory.

    Thinking about it, GK gives Advanced runes. Strong PvP Guilds owning most territories and dominating...

    Why not make that balanced by enforcing a distribution of strong PvP players over different guilds? Like proposing to enforce rules on players who can enter 12v12 teams to make them more balanced, why not enforce similar rules on player to join a guild to make rift more balanced?

    Joking of course... :)
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Well the way I see it is only casual ppl who don't care of win or loss or how bad it ends up on one side, think 100% random, with idiots who afk or mess around on purpose, is fun.

    I stand by the fact there should be some "score" matchmaking system not even close as extreme as arena though, but obviously still "random". You can get your super-powerful friend/guildie you have with you in arena in the opposite team. You just can't get a total trash noob who has no idea how to PvP or flag, if you're someone decent.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lapisdurus - Dyos
    Lapisdurus - Dyos Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Well the way I see it is only casual ppl who don't care of win or loss or how bad it ends up on one side, think 100% random, with idiots who afk or mess around on purpose, is fun.

    I support to deal with AFK'lers.

    I care about wining or losing. I don't care that I loose cause of a random bad player team vs a good player team. So I don't wish for rules to prevent bad players from joining 12v12.
    I don't really care if it's 1000:3600 or 3500:3600.
    please read as "still having fun/enjoying the 12v12, without a desire to change the rules because I lost 1000:3600 due to bad team"

    If a team of 6 good + 6 bad goes against 6 good + 6 bad, that's balanced. If it's you + 11 bad vs 12 good, well, bad luck this time. But you can enjoy both battles.

    I can understand that the option to ensure wining by something you do (like forming a team, training, communication, etc. for arena) is essential for some to have fun/interest in a game. But there is also a number of people who play the lottery, and have fun/interest doing so.

    12v12 team composition being a lottery might not sit well with some, but others might like it. And they can still care about wining this lottery without a desire to change the rules.

    EDIT: ok, realised it's 2 AM. no matter the consensus, no change will come. CN rules. Finishing daily's, no offence meant, have a good night.
  • Shinner - Lionheart
    Shinner - Lionheart Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    The main issues I see are not the sins or not defending flags but the base camping and just pure stupidity of the que system (and i dont mean the random or solo que part).

    On Lionheart we have been having a ton of issues with the sides not being balance number wise much less power wise. Two of the war's I was in last night (and last week) where something like 10-12 vs 8 for the majority of the time. Two other times I've gone in where there was only one healer on one or the other side. In the past two weeks I've been in 12v12 around 6 times where one guild had their dream team on one side and it was random either non pvpers or not enough of them to fight the other side. The dream team didn't care about taking flags they seemed to only care about keeping people in the base. They had 3-4 people on one flag 3-4 on the other and the rest stayed in the middle. If they would fix these issues/make it to where people cant camp base I would be happy even with the afkers.

    Though my other issue is the duel clienters/afkers that are infesting Lionhearts 12v12 specially since we dont have the player base to do 2x 12v12s (in fact 12v12 doesn't happen most of the day now days due to player base) and there are more players qued up and waiting.
  • supernoobster
    supernoobster Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    3) As a priest, not healing or purifying in PvP should be a bannable offense. Going for flags to capture them while others are fighting and needing heals (capturing while others defend you is fine) should be a bannable offense. GMs need to get their act and start enforcing this. Priests should be heal slaves, period, end of story. Just cause no one else is getting flags doesn't mean YOU have to do it. You're a priest, do your damn job and HEAL. Tip: flags don't need heals, so FORGET THEM. Which leads to point 4.

    I stopped reading your post after I read this part... As a divine priest, I have meet many players who treat us priest as a "heal potion". They yell at us for not keeping them at 100% hp at 100% of the time. They just want us to focus no them and **** the other players. They can use your very "thoughtout" suggestion against us healers. Try to ban a player for something as silly as not keeping their hp bar at full 24/7. Then, before you know it, all healers quit. Period. We aren't gonna play with a bunch of QQers, whining brats, selfish (insert word), (would like to add some other things here, but can't...)... And we won't ever come back, ever.


    I'm' going to stop reading from here.
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    You don't get it. You seem to be like a casual player. I've no problems with you. But don't party me with those. It's like playing ranked in other games.

    Once you're past a certain rank, even solo queue you'll end up fighting serious people only. The lower you are, the more chances of meeting idiots who AFK or play dumb on purpose or don't play seriously. "I play for fun" is their excuse.

    I dont care if they play for fun, just not handicap me and people who actually TRY to win. Try their best, might I add.

    You think I want to fight only noobs and AFKers? I want to fight "the elite" as you put it. Because THAT is fun. Not one sided matches. Not killing people who are AFK. =.=
    I stopped reading your post after I read this part... As a divine priest, I have meet many players who treat us priest as a "heal potion". They yell at us for not keeping them at 100% hp at 100% of the time. They just want us to focus no them and **** the other players. They can use your very "thoughtout" suggestion against us healers. Try to ban a player for something as silly as not keeping their hp bar at full 24/7. Then, before you know it, all healers quit. Period. We aren't gonna play with a bunch of QQers, whining brats, selfish (insert word), (would like to add some other things here, but can't...)... And we won't ever come back, ever.


    I'm' going to stop reading from here.
    You do realize I wasn't exactly serious right? Like GMs would even start banning for that even IF it was actually true.

    Chill out dude.

    Also, yes, priest main job is to heal. If you aren't gonna heal, don't queue for 12v12 on a priest. Use a sin or something to capture dumb flags. What pisses me off is that people like that don't realize this is not single-player. They want casual fun by hurting others. Selfish noobs.
  • finalw0rd
    finalw0rd Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Priests should be heal slaves, period, end of story.

    Perhaps the promotion of slavery should be a bannable offense.
  • lokisdottir
    lokisdottir Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sometimes I like to take my priest and go for a swim off somewhere and watch my party cry for heals just to make people like Borsook's head explode.

    This is why I don't tell any of you my character name :D
  • supernoobster
    supernoobster Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    You don't get it. You seem to be like a casual player. I've no problems with you. But don't party me with those. It's like playing ranked in other games.

    Once you're past a certain rank, even solo queue you'll end up fighting serious people only. The lower you are, the more chances of meeting idiots who AFK or play dumb on purpose or don't play seriously. "I play for fun" is their excuse.

    I dont care if they play for fun, just not handicap me and people who actually TRY to win. Try their best, might I add.

    You think I want to fight only noobs and AFKers? I want to fight "the elite" as you put it. Because THAT is fun. Not one sided matches. Not killing people who are AFK. =.=

    You do realize I wasn't exactly serious right? Like GMs would even start banning for that even IF it was actually true.

    Chill out dude.

    Also, yes, priest main job is to heal. If you aren't gonna heal, don't queue for 12v12 on a priest. Use a sin or something to capture dumb flags. What pisses me off is that people like that don't realize this is not single-player. They want casual fun by hurting others. Selfish noobs.


    yeah, sorry if my statement was a bit harsh. I just really hate those kind of players, but the point of it still stands.

    I will agree that priest have to heal, but they should only heal if they are speced into it. Like a inferno vampire can heal, but in the end, they will take more damage then they recovered from their heals. The time spent on healing could have been used to run or damage the enemy some more.


    Might as well force your rule on vampires and bards as well since they can also heal.


    I do know how it feels when a priest doesn't heal you. There is other reason why a priest can't heal. I hate those priest that are divine just stand there and do nothing.


    I will agree with your statement. If your going to que up for 12v12, then you better do as much as you can to support your team by doing your part, but... only the part you are made to and can do, not forced to do. If you aren't gonna do sheeeeeeeezzzzz to help your team. Then don't que for it damn it.
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I'm pretty sure he meant only divine priests to heal him lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yeah. You guys took the priest part way too seriously I was trying to be funny. Same with the IQ test.
  • Lapisdurus - Dyos
    Lapisdurus - Dyos Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    You don't get it. You seem to be like a casual player. I've no problems with you. But don't party me with those. It's like playing ranked in other games.

    Once you're past a certain rank, even solo queue you'll end up fighting serious people only. The lower you are, the more chances of meeting idiots who AFK or play dumb on purpose or don't play seriously. "I play for fun" is their excuse.

    I dont care if they play for fun, just not handicap me and people who actually TRY to win. Try their best, might I add.

    You think I want to fight only noobs and AFKers? I want to fight "the elite" as you put it. Because THAT is fun. Not one sided matches. Not killing people who are AFK. =.=

    I've no problems with you being elite either :) But I don't mind being partied with you. :) I like fighting alongside elite against elite, and casuals.

    With Arena, auctionable Rift, Guild wars, open world PvP, EB, Astral Shine, there's already lots of things where you can fight the elite per choice. 12v12 not, yet.

    I ok the 12v12 matching. You don't. And both our opinions don't matter in CN.

    PS: Why can't I stop browsing the forum tonight...
  • supernoobster
    supernoobster Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yeah. You guys took the priest part way too seriously I was trying to be funny. Same with the IQ test.

    Sorry that I took it too seriously. Hard to tell if someone is serious on the internet or not. I usually take things a bit serious.
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    lol it's alright. If I wanted a super duper serious thread I wouldn't name it "Rants" in title. xD
  • part911
    part911 Posts: 97 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sometimes I like to take my priest and go for a swim off somewhere and watch my party cry for heals just to make people like Borsook's head explode.

    This is why I don't tell any of you my character name :D

    Post of the Day! :)
  • Ghundrop - Eyrda
    Ghundrop - Eyrda Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    sometimes I like to take my priest and go for a swim off somewhere and watch my party cry for heals just to make people like Borsook's head explode.

    This is why I don't tell any of you my character name :D

    Kinda like how the developers went for a swim and forgot that mms are a class. Perhaps one day when they get a chance they can come out of the water and make mms a real pvp class instead of a pvp joke. 1.5 solid years and somehow no one is taking class balance seriously.

    Then soon you send me a pathetic email like the one I got from PWI guys asking why I don't play anymore and give a bunch of totally dumb options as answers. In case they ever read FW forums heres a clue : IMBALANCE!!!!!!!!! (NERF the dam TWITCH SINS).

    As for FW staff more of the same. Refusal to admit balance is shot (once agains sins being heavily favored) and obvious refusal to rebalance the game.

    Finally: the rune system. It is pure fail! Let the developers know.
  • lokisdottir
    lokisdottir Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Kinda like how the developers went for a swim and forgot that mms are a class. Perhaps one day when they get a chance they can come out of the water and make mms a real pvp class instead of a pvp joke. 1.5 solid years and somehow no one is taking class balance seriously.

    Then soon you send me a pathetic email like the one I got from PWI guys asking why I don't play anymore and give a bunch of totally dumb options as answers. In case they ever read FW forums heres a clue : IMBALANCE!!!!!!!!! (NERF the dam TWITCH SINS).

    As for FW staff more of the same. Refusal to admit balance is shot (once agains sins being heavily favored) and obvious refusal to rebalance the game.

    Finally: the rune system. It is pure fail! Let the developers know.

    I play an MM as well. I love it. Am I squishy if the people attack me? Yes. Yes I am. Doesn't make it less fun for me.
  • Ghundrop - Eyrda
    Ghundrop - Eyrda Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I play an MM as well. I love it. Am I squishy if the people attack me? Yes. Yes I am. Doesn't make it less fun for me.

    Is that supposed to explain why for 1.5 years of playing and spending my cash every player at my level and skill level including myself can clearly identify how the developers have messed up this class?

    OMG. I am now totally speechless. Thanks. With an answer like this I have now lost all hope that mms will ever get adjusted to be on equal footing to the games other classes!

    Serisouly? well well well, it all totally makes sense to me now.

    I give up.