Improve Marksmen Idea #2:

killsnitch
killsnitch Posts: 157 Arc User
edited September 2012 in Suggestion Box
Start with 20 soul bullets, regen to 20 soul bullets out of combat. The soul bullet system stupidly nerfs a marksman. No other class has to spend 6-9 minutes after a death to get back to full strength just so they can use their cooldowns.

... I've tried posting this twice and when I look at the boards again, it's not here... 3rd time's a charm?
Post edited by killsnitch on

Comments

  • supernoobster
    supernoobster Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Your right, marksman depend on soul bullets to much. Can you make it so that when marksman die, they revive with 5 bullets? And regenerate 1 bullet every 30 seconds without have to do quick reload or shot a dummy until it fills? This would be a great start for making marksman more popular and making them a bit more better at endgame.
  • Trogotha - Storm Legion
    Trogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    killsnitch wrote: »
    Start with 20 soul bullets, regen to 20 soul bullets out of combat. The soul bullet system stupidly nerfs a marksman. No other class has to spend 6-9 minutes after a death to get back to full strength just so they can use their cooldowns.

    ... I've tried posting this twice and when I look at the boards again, it's not here... 3rd time's a charm?

    1) Could be a comms issue or just the FW forums flaking out which happens from time to time.

    2) Play Soul and you'll have bullets coming out of multiple orifices. The lvl 75 skill grants 5, there is an attack skill around 45 talent points give or take that grants a bullet each time you use it, and you can up your chances of entering Soul Catching plus increase it's duration meaning you just need to use Fire at Will to generate bullets. Add in the talents to reduce the cd for QR, and you have enough bullets to make your average gun nut get crosseyed with joy.

    3) Quick Reloading has a 90s cd naturally and grants 4 bullets on use regardless of tree. If you need 6-9 minutes, then you're not watching the cd very much since at most it would take 7.5 minutes to get a full clip from 0. Pay attention to when you are in the Soul Catching state and use Fire at Will which will generate 1 bullet each use plus it has a shorter cd during that buff.

    Only Soul is meant to be endless bullets but in contrast, the tree doesn't really have much in way of pve desirability because it's effects are really meant to be used against other players. Prec and Burst are for pve content but require you to manage your clip effectively but both use the clip generally for straight spike damage with maybe the occasional use of Soul Resolution since now it's actually a proper shield skill for the most part instead of FW giving the class just one more middle finger.

    Speaking as a Burst / Prec hybrid with the talents that make QR turn RoF and PS into 0s cd skills for uber spammage, the extra spike damage really won't make that much of a difference. The only time my bullet clip even remotely comes close to empty is vs bosses since I use Double Shot after activating CST which means my next 5 skills including Extreme Sniping and Exo Bullet will burn 10 bullets give or take depending on casting time and boss stuns preventing me from using skills before the Double Shot buff ends. But on boss fights, barring a bad tank, you should be able to sit there using your skills including QR without issue. Simply turning off CST when not in boss combat means I always have bullets for emergency SR activation since I'm more likely to draw mob aggro especially if I'm the only aoe.

    Use the tools properly that are at your disposal, and you'll find you'll have less of an issue. Play a MM as a MM and not a Mage with op constant spike damage based upon max mp.

    TL;DR version: Your inability to manage soul bullets due to playing a tree that isn't meant to spam them isn't FW's problem. If you want op constant spike damage with little else, go play a mage otherwise . :rolleyes:
    Dear PWE Staff: I can haz avatar nao plox? :D
    For SCIENCE (and the LULZ)!
  • supernoobster
    supernoobster Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    1) Could be a comms issue or just the FW forums flaking out which happens from time to time.

    2) Play Soul and you'll have bullets coming out of multiple orifices. The lvl 75 skill grants 5, there is an attack skill around 45 talent points give or take that grants a bullet each time you use it, and you can up your chances of entering Soul Catching plus increase it's duration meaning you just need to use Fire at Will to generate bullets. Add in the talents to reduce the cd for QR, and you have enough bullets to make your average gun nut get crosseyed with joy.

    3) Quick Reloading has a 90s cd naturally and grants 4 bullets on use regardless of tree. If you need 6-9 minutes, then you're not watching the cd very much since at most it would take 7.5 minutes to get a full clip from 0. Pay attention to when you are in the Soul Catching state and use Fire at Will which will generate 1 bullet each use plus it has a shorter cd during that buff.

    Only Soul is meant to be endless bullets but in contrast, the tree doesn't really have much in way of pve desirability because it's effects are really meant to be used against other players. Prec and Burst are for pve content but require you to manage your clip effectively but both use the clip generally for straight spike damage with maybe the occasional use of Soul Resolution since now it's actually a proper shield skill for the most part instead of FW giving the class just one more middle finger.

    Speaking as a Burst / Prec hybrid with the talents that make QR turn RoF and PS into 0s cd skills for uber spammage, the extra spike damage really won't make that much of a difference. The only time my bullet clip even remotely comes close to empty is vs bosses since I use Double Shot after activating CST which means my next 5 skills including Extreme Sniping and Exo Bullet will burn 10 bullets give or take depending on casting time and boss stuns preventing me from using skills before the Double Shot buff ends. But on boss fights, barring a bad tank, you should be able to sit there using your skills including QR without issue. Simply turning off CST when not in boss combat means I always have bullets for emergency SR activation since I'm more likely to draw mob aggro especially if I'm the only aoe.

    Use the tools properly that are at your disposal, and you'll find you'll have less of an issue. Play a MM as a MM and not a Mage with op constant spike damage based upon max mp.

    TL;DR version: Your inability to manage soul bullets due to playing a tree that isn't meant to spam them isn't FW's problem. If you want op constant spike damage with little else, go play a mage otherwise . :rolleyes:


    You are right with everything you said. I play as a burst marksman and only save soul bullets for the accuarcy boost, but it annoys me a bit whenever I die that I have to wait for it to reload for 5-6 minutes (PvP). As for PvE purposes, I usually just use soul bullets when I gather more than 7 mobs to help kill them faster and have less chances of dying. What if we apply the 5 soul bullets and 30 second regenerations for PvP? Would help to give marksman a small boost in that area at least.


    I like Marksmans as they are now, but they do need some improvement since all other classes have a much better advantage than they do.
  • killsnitch
    killsnitch Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    None of that addresses the problem directly. The only thing that drives people to put money into this game, is competition, and that means pvp. For pvp purposes, the soul bullet model is totally screwed... for any spec.
  • IaiStrike - Eyrda
    IaiStrike - Eyrda Posts: 444 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Soul got nerfed since nightfall. Soul discharge won't generate a bullet in CST anymore like it's supposed to.
  • killsnitch
    killsnitch Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    After seeing the lackluster response, I'd like to update my suggestion. Remove Soul Bullets completely, just have the bonuses they give now applied to abilities all the time. It's a much easier fix.
  • supernoobster
    supernoobster Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    killsnitch wrote: »
    After seeing the lackluster response, I'd like to update my suggestion. Remove Soul Bullets completely, just have the bonuses they give now applied to abilities all the time. It's a much easier fix.

    Hmmm, maybe. That could make the class better overall. Ton of damage, but low hp and def. Sounds much better than decent dps and low hp and def. Would really improve the class overall.
  • Trogotha - Storm Legion
    Trogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    killsnitch wrote: »
    After seeing the lackluster response, I'd like to update my suggestion. Remove Soul Bullets completely, just have the bonuses they give now applied to abilities all the time. It's a much easier fix.

    As tempting as that is, they would need to rework pretty much every skill. Given how well PWE has done that in it's other games, I'd rather they just not touch it to prevent breaking anything else since the bug "fixes" don't seem to get rid of bugs so much as change which ones are active with the overall bug count remaining pretty much static.

    As to the PvP aspect, I hate to say it but you're really playing the wrong class. Take a look at some of the very thoughtful even if a little dated posts by the likes of Ghundam and Crum in the MM forum for some more insight courtesy of some dedicated high level pvp MM.

    Yes, MM can compete in PvP, but the amount of either cash / effort needed to do so at least on Storm means it's not really worth it since eva stacking is really the only way to get any survivability vs the opness that is the top end dedicated pvpers in Storm and even then acc stacking is now becoming the rage to counter eva stacking in general. In the long run, we really are destined to be glass cannons regardless of setting due to the limitations placed upon us by PWE at design time. Your server may be and probably is a bit different, but then that goes for all classes. ;)

    Don't get me wrong, I love my MM and do very well in a pve setting but I have no illusions when it comes to being able to really compete with the dedicated pvp folks. Personally, it doesn't bother me since I choose Storm to avoid pvp in the first place. I'll leave the discussion of pvp on pve servers vs pvp servers to the many folks who have argued that topic before long before I joined FW and will probably be here long after I leave FW.

    As a bit of a compromise and I apologise since I'm too lazy atm to check, but perhaps we could get the skills that help the cd of QR. I figure that would be the easiest approach and least chance of PWE breaking something else about our class. ;)

    @OP:
    Anywho, as a still active MM player, I do appreciate your attempt to make our class a bit better even if I don't always agree with your approach. :)
    Dear PWE Staff: I can haz avatar nao plox? :D
    For SCIENCE (and the LULZ)!
  • killsnitch
    killsnitch Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    You have to aim for extremes to find a compromise, but sadly soul bullets are such a handicap that this "extreme" wouldn't even be game breaking.