What would you like to see from this class in the future?

asd29
asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Marksman Discussion
Well, I do think devs are somehwat listening to us and our CN counterparts. Soul Resolution has had a massive, massive improvement recently. I've had a much much easier time in arena recently simply because of the much improved soul res along with going to hp/critdef/dodge gear. The gap has closed to the other classes somewhat but generally we're still one of the weaker pvp classes IMO. But I'm finding more fun again rather than lamenting why i didn't roll a vamp like every man and his dog.

Is it really case of we don't have an op skill compared to other classes or are there certain things in particular that need to be improved. I mean Rake was way op when I first started then it got nerfed HARD.

Peronally I'd like disarm to be much much more viable. ie works on all classes because to my knowledge it only effective on wars and other mm. Eg it actually stops casting not just reduces dmg.
Maybe it'd be a bit much but a reduced reliance on hunters mark? But increased effect on targets with hunters mark? ie with trap of magic maybe 50% chance 3 sec silence without Hunters mark but 100% chance with hunter's mark?
Maybe a bigger Soul Bullet clip?

This isn't a QQ thread really - I do still hold hope for this class to improve further in the future. It's more a brainstorm thread. I do think devs listen and if they didn't soul res would still be absorbing 3k lol
Post edited by asd29 on
As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
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Comments

  • isock#6686
    isock#6686 Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i would like that the soul tree was put back like before soul power update, before u didnt need to put talents in stray bullet to run around whit crack shot time on, now the ****ed soul discharge and you need that talent

    also that our talents that give evasion would give more, last time i checked agility tecnique gave like 5 more eva..... i was like ._.

    also that the banana animation was changed, i cannot be taken serious if i eat bananas like crazy and throw the trash in the floor xD

    uu uu also more range, like 5-10 meters more, if we are marskmans, then why not a bigger range? xD
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • Axym - Lionheart
    Axym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Some sort of cc.... that doesn't rely on chance or REALLY long cd's/casts.

    The only real cc we have is putting up HM and Soul Snipe with a 50% chance or Extreme sniping which is 5s cast and 30s cd. I mean, I'm only burst so that might be the problem, but I don't see much better cc anywhere... except I think extreme sniping can get a sleep?
    I agree that disarm needs to actually do something >.> otherwise it's just a waste, again, of cast time. Weakening cloud is a start I suppose, but lowering acc doesn't do too too much... Increased base hp and def would be awesome....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I actually don't mind if disarm doesn't work on Vamps, Priests and Mages. They dosn't actually use the weapon. What my main issue with disarm is vs classes that actively use weapons eg prots and sins. But for some craptastic reason it only works on warriors (ok they can use bash but bash is just lol). All 3 classes pretty much use the weapon in the same way so why doesn't it affect sins and prots? FW logic....

    Pulse shot is our only guaranteed cc across all trees. I'd actually love it if Soul res also worked like Blade of Reflection but that's just wishful thinking.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • IaiStrike - Eyrda
    IaiStrike - Eyrda Posts: 444 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well for starters they can make rake of fury 18 meters normal cast instead of 16. In the arena map with the giant obstacle, those 2 meters actually mean a lot -.-
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well for starters they can make rake of fury 18 meters normal cast instead of 16. In the arena map with the giant obstacle, those 2 meters actually mean a lot -.-

    But all aoe is pretty much 16m I thought? Even mages? if it isn't then yeah we should have at least 18m range on rake as a ranged caster class. I'd personally rather have the the old coverage area back can't remember if it was 120degrees or 180 before they nerfed rake. It'd be a bit hax to have both but I agree. Though a fully a talented rake would have obscene range
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • IaiStrike - Eyrda
    IaiStrike - Eyrda Posts: 444 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    What? Mages are 18 meters, and they have always been. MM skills besides rake are all 18 minimum and go up to 22 for single target.
  • isock#6686
    isock#6686 Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i think crack shot time gives more range?
    i mean because sometimes when a boss glitch in welkins in the rooftop, i can hit it whit extreme snipping to bring it down
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • Axym - Lionheart
    Axym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    yosias wrote: »
    i think crack shot time gives more range?
    i mean because sometimes when a boss glitch in welkins in the rooftop, i can hit it whit extreme snipping to bring it down

    CST does different things for different skills. I think CST also increases the acc of Extreme Sniping or some other skill >.>. It does mostly just increase damage though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    No it is not glitched, Extreme Sniping has added range under Crack Shot Time, an additional 2m.

    As I said "All aoe is pretty much 16m I thought? Even mages?" I don't have a mage I'm unsure of their actual range. What I did want back was the coverage area ie the width of rake back. It used to be much much wider. Now it only goes 90degrees
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • isock#6686
    isock#6686 Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i would still like more range in pvp...or that assault range got reduced >.<
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • IaiStrike - Eyrda
    IaiStrike - Eyrda Posts: 444 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Even though it says 90 degrees, I've seen rake do some odd hitboxing sometimes and hit basically 180 degrees.
  • plusonecharisma
    plusonecharisma Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I would like to see MM get something to allow us the same survive ability as other classes in arena. Maybe immunity to some of the CC types, like other classes have or anything that discourages others from atking us.

    Mages, priests and bards have shields that are so strong that many times you are better off breaking off atk and gathering orbs. Prots have rocky, Wars have BOR and Sins can go invisible, Camps have feast, all of which force you to break atk. MMs have nothing to discourage or break atks.

    We are vulnerable to all CC and there is no reliable way to escape repeated CC. For example, if a sin is stunning you, and you badge out of it, you will almost immediately be stunned again. then comes the silence or other CC skills from his team mates, all of which you are vulnerable too. MMs are forced into an EVA build as the only way to survive some of the CC atks and even that fails to be viable at higher levels.
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Guys a lot of very good common sense and pretty fair ideas here. Keep it up. I'm kinda semi-retired from this game now, with guild wars2 coming and I'm logging on 2-3 times a week now instead of daily. But I've pm'd mods about this thread no matter how futile it may be. Hell, you never know we qq enough they may actually do something. I don't know there's still hope for this class, I mean it's not going to take much to even the playing field so keep the suggestions coming.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • momoyama
    momoyama Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    hunters mark says "unable to stealth" but sins have shadow escape that lets the stealth anyway, and weakening cloud our defense against sins has such a long cd and such a short effect thats its almost useless. so we cloud then mark sin then they shadow escape "lasts longer than cloud" then come back after cloud effect is gone and poke us anyway. so it would be nice to see cloud last longer and have a lot shorter cd. like 30 sec cd effect last 20 sec instead of 300 sec cd effect last 11 sec. it would give us a little better defense against melee classes.
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    All the racial skills are 5 min cd- Divine Uphold, Feast etc that'd be pretty unfair to have a 30 sec cd when everyone else has 5 min.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • momoyama
    momoyama Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    its not fair anyway with the big class imbalances like sins got 2x as hard hit when unstealth + pain/agony orbs that up their attack , and can silence / stun lock ppl. with high crit chance / rate. mm attacks got weakened yet sins remain super OP....
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Here's the thing - that's not a MM class issue, that's more an issue of other classes just being better developed. All classes have a racial 5 min skill. devs aren't going to realistically say oh wait every class except one will have a 5 min class skill but one class will get 30 secs. No way that happens. I have never noticed an issue with MM attack -maybe because i've been soul a long long time, also bear in mind the bonus damage equation. Sins and ele wars don't have a lot of it in comparison.

    Also why the obsession with cloud? Eva is useless at 75+ arena unless you cs and re id like crazy. I mean sure it works in lowbie arena but eva is pointless at 75+. When people are running 600+acc in your bracket no amount of cloud is gonna bail you out unless you have VERY VERY high base evasion. Even then your eva will be countered by a million and one debuffs.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • geisterkatze
    geisterkatze Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well, the rifle is the central element of this class and dwarves are apparently very good engineers. Therefore I would like to see a system that actually allows the dwarves to improve/upgrade/change/maintain this weapon through technological means. This system should replace the normal upgrade/fortify system with gems for the rifle.
    At the moment the rifle feels a little bit strange. It has unlimmited ammo, the behavior changes with skill(e.g. single shot <-> flamethrower) and it obviously needs no maintenance other then the usual repair costs for any weapon.
    How about dividing the class into two paths: one that uses a rifle and one that uses dual wielding pistols?
  • isock#6686
    isock#6686 Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    How about dividing the class into two paths: one that uses a rifle and one that uses dual wielding pistols?

    what diferences would make having dual pistols? i think it would be the same
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • geisterkatze
    geisterkatze Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    yosias wrote: »
    what diferences would make having dual pistols? i think it would be the same

    Well, saying "divide" might be a little too much, as there might not be enough differences to justify a complete division. Maybe it is more like a specialization.
    The rifle has the longer range, while with two pistols you would do more damage in close distance and it should be easier to attack multiple opponents with them. I'm not saying that we definitely need this "division". It just some wild idea to play around with at the moment.
  • Axym - Lionheart
    Axym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well, saying "divide" might be a little too much, as there might not be enough differences to justify a complete division. Maybe it is more like a specialization.
    The rifle has the longer range, while with two pistols you would do more damage in close distance and it should be easier to attack multiple opponents with them. I'm not saying that we definitely need this "division". It just some wild idea to play around with at the moment.

    While I admire your creativity:

    1. this has been "suggested" before if you snoop through old suggestion forum threads.
    2. This wasn't exactly the point of the thread to my understanding, it was more, how can we make mm less underpowered or more on par with the other classes?

    So, while cool idea, it's not what we were thinking of as a group or else I'd start posting pictures of more gothic lolita costumes for fem mm's to wear so I don't have to hide my shame in fashion (50's gear makes me wanna throw up).


    If I'm coming off as elitest or well.. b*tchy, I apologize, just couldn't help myself >.<


    As an addition to at least burst mm: I'd like to be able to add burns to BS or HVS... >.> just to even up the aoe dps to the more OP mages :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Well, saying "divide" might be a little too much, as there might not be enough differences to justify a complete division. Maybe it is more like a specialization.
    The rifle has the longer range, while with two pistols you would do more damage in close distance and it should be easier to attack multiple opponents with them. I'm not saying that we definitely need this "division". It just some wild idea to play around with at the moment.

    TBH i don't see the point of this. Seeing as range isn't any sort of advantage in pvp without a reliable way to maintain it. Also very unlikely to happen it'd open the floodgates they'd have to have sword and shield warriors, elven archers etc etc etc
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Axym - Lionheart
    Axym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Another thing I would like to see, is somehow be able to use our max mana for... something. Looking over a few sets, we're given mana... quite a bit, I think a lot more than we need, I mean, hp or eva would obviously be much more helpful in those "set" slots... and we have absolutely no use for mana... at all, none of our skills rely on anything about "max mana" not even our "mana regen" (Quick Reloading)

    While I don't want us to turn into a mage, because that's kinda their thing, but I dunno >.> it's so much a useless stat to us, but I guess it's mostly useless to other classes so it might be asking for too much, but I dunno maybe a skill that allows us to convert mana or % of mana or something into soul bullets? I know it'd help burst out alot with those, soul and precision could maintain cst more which would increase our dps....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    As long as I'm captain, the rum shall never be gone.
    tinyurl.com/FWEmotes courtesy of Deltatroopa
  • skylarkin
    skylarkin Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Another thing I would like to see, is somehow be able to use our max mana for... something. Looking over a few sets, we're given mana... quite a bit, I think a lot more than we need, I mean, hp or eva would obviously be much more helpful in those "set" slots... and we have absolutely no use for mana... at all, none of our skills rely on anything about "max mana" not even our "mana regen" (Quick Reloading)

    While I don't want us to turn into a mage, because that's kinda their thing, but I dunno >.> it's so much a useless stat to us, but I guess it's mostly useless to other classes so it might be asking for too much, but I dunno maybe a skill that allows us to convert mana or % of mana or something into soul bullets? I know it'd help burst out alot with those, soul and precision could maintain cst more which would increase our dps....


    Some sorta 30 second cd mana grenade, high cast time high damage scaling off max mana would be nice. Since ROF and Pshot is pretty much our dps by means of chipping off mobs with burns and low cd/cast skills. But this would be in the burst context.

    Cos there's really nothing bursty about burst MM's lol.
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    BTW guys crabclaw is back for those that know him. try to keep the suggestions coming. The more suggestions we have and maybe the more people that QQ we may finally get some movement

    http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3715781#post3715781
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Inzho - Eyrda
    Inzho - Eyrda Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Since the upgrade of our shield, Soul mms are actually very good in PvP. I will give one pro tip which is that hp is your friend. Anyway, the gripes I have are:

    1) Please make soul discharge work like it did before. That is let it give 1 soul bullet when used. Soul is a bullet dependent class after all.

    2) The 5 sec cast on extreme sniping needs to be reduced to 3 sec.

    In terms of the other 2 trees, I find both to be more PvE oriented so talking about either in PvP is a bit useless. The burst tree is a viable gvg, rift build but mass pvp in this game is limited. The precision mm is nice in theory but its skills are too slow casting to be a substantial PvP aid. It may seem a bit op but given how poorly mms have been treated over the last two years I would suggest that:

    3) Dazing Shot for precision mms should become a multitarget AoE curse.
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    skylarkin wrote: »
    Some sorta 30 second cd mana grenade, high cast time high damage scaling off max mana would be nice. Since ROF and Pshot is pretty much our dps by means of chipping off mobs with burns and low cd/cast skills. But this would be in the burst context.

    Cos there's really nothing bursty about burst MM's lol.

    DoT from Rake/Soul Snipe would be good if it could be talented to apply a DoT to mana as well. I mean you could be really really punishing in arena, which if you could apply enough stacks of DoT as well it'd be be a somewhat viable skill.

    But yeah I think damage wise i think we're ok I still think where we lack is survivability and crowd control. All our crowd control is hunter's mark + chance to CC. I mean prots stun chance is 50% without anything and it goes higher with more fury. Sins silence duration increases with more blast orbs and it's a guaranteed silence. Why do we only get 60% chance at best on soul snipe? Why do we only get a chance to silence considering we have to cast multiple skills? The only other class requiring multiple skills to slow or ensnare has infinitely more survivability than us (our shield doesn't regen HP or mana or even protect us from cc's and they don't have to trade spike damage to cast it) , and once they get ice wind going it's a guaranteed ensnare and it is spammable for at least 30 secs and has a whole host of other nasty side effects such as max mana reduction and frozen status. Unlike pulse shot or exo bullet. Even Ice Arrow of mages is far superior. It should be Hunters mark+ skill=guaranteed stun/silence. Consider you have to tab or select a target manually, apply curse, use skill, any range advantage you have is gone with our awful cast times. But no we have to take a talent called dwarfs luck for a measly 10% increase in chance. That's not even available to non-soul mm. Even the godawful rune system is no help. It only activates when there's a multiple of 5 bullets in your soul bullet clip and it will take an extra one? WTF. So not only do we have to manage the bullets for soul res, spike damage now we have to make sure we have either 5,10, 15 or 20 bullets for a base 30% chance to stun on all our single target fire skills for a measly 2 secs (at 90 wisdom it's 48% chance) as well as apply Hunter's mark. Absolutely ridiculous, I mean come on, who are devs kidding with this?


    Edit: I just had a look at a few 90rune power skills from a few other classes. A fair few of them grant immunity to controlling effects so the weak **** chance to 2 sec stun is out the window as well. WTF devs? Do you even have anyone testing these talents for mm in a pvp scenario?
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • ILikeBigGu - Illyfue
    ILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    DoT from Rake/Soul Snipe would be good if it could be talented to apply a DoT to mana as well. I mean you could be really really punishing in arena, which if you could apply enough stacks of DoT as well it'd be be a somewhat viable skill.

    But yeah I think damage wise i think we're ok I still think where we lack is survivability and crowd control. All our crowd control is hunter's mark + chance to CC. I mean prots stun chance is 50% without anything and it goes higher with more fury. Sins silence duration increases with more blast orbs and it's a guaranteed silence. Why do we only get 60% chance at best on soul snipe? Why do we only get a chance to silence considering we have to cast multiple skills? The only other class requiring multiple skills to slow or ensnare has infinitely more survivability than us (our shield doesn't regen HP or mana or even protect us from cc's and they don't have to trade spike damage to cast it) , and once they get ice wind going it's a guaranteed ensnare and it is spammable for at least 30 secs and has a whole host of other nasty side effects such as max mana reduction. Unlike pulse shot or exo bullet. Even Ice Arrow of mages is far superior. It should be Hunters mark+ skill=guaranteed stun/silence. Consider you have to tab or select a target manually, apply curse, use skill, any range advantage you have is gone with our awful cast times. But no we have to take a talent called dwarfs luck for a measly 10% increase in chance. That's not even available to non-soul mm. Even the godawful rune system is no help. It only activates when there's a multiple of 5 bullets in your soul bullet clip and it will take an extra one? WTF. So not only do we have to manage the bullets for soul res, spike damage now we have to make sure we have either 5,10, 15 or 20 bullets for a base 30% chance to stun on all our single target fire skills for a measly 2 secs (at 90 wisdom it's 48% chance) as well as apply Hunter's mark. Absolutely ridiculous, I mean come on, who are devs kidding with this?

    I completely agree with all of this
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  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I'd be ok with sould res needing more bullets if it provided some immunity to CC. It's just a massive tradeoff, it's good that it absorbs more damage now, but in comparison to what other classes with with a shield have ie the trade off for the cost to cast vs the damage/cc mitigation it is still quite poor. Imagine if a divine priest had to give up healing effect if they had to cast shield or a bard had to give up buff effectiveness to generate the shield. It's a similar trade off IMO.

    If they are going to make our cc's chance based with such low % make it somewhat more devastating, not a piddly 2 sec stun. I'd understand if the stun/silence was going to be 10 secs for a low a activation chance but at least give us some value in the amount of skill combinations it takes to get the chance and apply the cc. Either that or lower the inherent cd's and cast times of Soul snipe, Pulse shot and exo bullet.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Ghundam - Eyrda
    Ghundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Ok so I've made my input regarding mostly Soul mms (under Inzho my alt priest) however my favorite mm is the precision mm. Precision in my opinion is perhaps the worst class in terms of survivability. If I am wrong let me know.

    As a soul mm I have a 60% chance (with dwarfs luck) to stun for 2 seconds and a 60% chance to silence for 6 seconds (with exorcising bullet ala trap of magic). It works beautifully and even if I land neither, I can resummon my shield with spare ammo, a shield which offers far more protection than either burst or precision builds. Throw in burst of rage and in one skill I can generate usually about 4-5 orbs and become a huge threat.

    Now lets go back to precision. I can summon a weaker version of the Soul shield (unless I get the appropriate runes) once every 45 seconds. In practical (that is my actual battle experience) once the shield is done so am I.

    Now lets revisit this. You see cc like freeze and stun adds a layer of protection because for those 2-6 seconds depending on the skill your opponent cannot attack you AND you get a chance to gather orbs to strengthen your attack. A precision mm has 1such skill! Its not even earth based!!! ONE 50% chance (and trust me it procs sparingly) to stun for 2 seconds. Thats it!

    Don't mention extreme sniping because 1) no one in high level pvp give a mm 5 secs to cast it and 2) 80 dyos is unreachable for the average player (yet another big F...... Y...... mms by the developers!!!!!!!)

    Don't talk about pulse shot because as I have proven over and over EVERY single class in this game overcomes it easy! War assault, Sin deadly chaser, Prot stupidly high run speed and of course all the other are ranged so its useless.

    The developers FAIL for now 2 whole years to make Precision viable in PvP. Yes our shield got better but for precision all it means is we don't die as fast and we still get locked up by sins.

    What can be done? Give the precision class some form of viable @#$@%@$#% CC. ITS A WHOLE 2 @#$@#%%# YEARS NOW!!!!!

    Sins are PVP perfect as are Vamps and for 2 years PWE has sit by and feel I will be consoled because some of their staff claim to play a mm like that is supposed to make me feel any better!

    But do not think my rant above is angry because I already took my action. I stopped supporting the cash shop and will continue to do so until someone has the @#$#@$ to stand up for mms (PARTICULARLY the precision build) and make wrong things right!

    It is wrong to take players money and push out half baked classes for them to play versus PvP behemoths like dark vamps, any type sin, ice/fire mages and those infernal omg will you ever get any common sense and nerf the ......... out of them bards!

    BUT this is PWE and after life with them through PWI I have little to 0 faith they will ever seek balance between the classes.