Remove Botting in Instances

2

Comments

  • seetoo
    seetoo Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    oooooooooooooooooooooooor...

    You could simple CHOOSE TO NOT RUN WITH A BOTTER. That would take zero developer effort. Also, if you think mindlessly mashing buttons is easy, then it would definitely not be hard to form a party of non-botters.
  • evakai
    evakai Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Nah no class is comparable, except the face rolling ones maybe with super short cooldowns like fire mage. Bot is "too slow" if you know what I mean, very easy to spot for me too. But I guess you guys go mostly with "randoms" who are "Too slow" and slack as well, with or without bot, and probably "save pots" too lmao and not maximize their DPS... yes I have experience with those 90% of the time with randoms... hell even in guild some are like that.

    surely when you're DPSing a boss you have a set sequence of attacks even when you're going manual? IMO with most classes if you calculate the cooldown+cast time of your attacks, you can set up a sequence decent enough using the 10 slots in the CA system.



    I realise this might be harder with sin+ orbs and i agree (from experience) fire mage is probably the easiest to bot without losing overall DPS. However ive tried with a lvl74 bard too and its not that bad if you get the cord order right.



    In terms of DPSing a boss (i.e. constant same-target DPS) a bot can be same efficiency with most classes as manual control.

    I realise the issue brought up by OP was the "moral" or "principle" use of bots in instances in which case my opinion is that its fine in GT or GL, however less so with gear instances. besides which, if you're botting all the time, what is the point of playing anyway?

    I noticed earlier someone mentioned having "more important" things to do, my advice is log off, go do those things and don't get distracted by this game at all.
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Actually if you're edge/dark hybrid, or have Rapid Shadow runes, or both like me, then you have a high chance to reset CD on Throat Seal every time you use it (42%). So I never have a specific skill rotation pattern for best DPS considering Throat Seal is the hardest hitting skill for edge/dark hybrid too, so it must be used whenever possible.
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  • Arizll - Eyrda
    Arizll - Eyrda Posts: 1,551 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Actually if you're edge/dark hybrid, or have Rapid Shadow runes, or both like me, then you have a high chance to reset CD on Throat Seal every time you use it (42%). So I never have a specific skill rotation pattern for best DPS considering Throat Seal is the hardest hitting skill for edge/dark hybrid too, so it must be used whenever possible.

    You can make your bot spam certain skills more(or at least try to)
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I did put Throat Seal to spam it every second but it still is too slow at using skills, I dunno why there's some small delay most of times between skills.
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  • Arizll - Eyrda
    Arizll - Eyrda Posts: 1,551 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I did put Throat Seal to spam it every second but it still is too slow at using skills, I dunno why there's some small delay most of times between skills.

    Put it less than 1 second then.
  • Mhertin - Storm Legion
    Mhertin - Storm Legion Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Cannot put decimals!
    o.o
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  • Arizll - Eyrda
    Arizll - Eyrda Posts: 1,551 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Cannot put decimals!
    o.o

    Yea you are right. I thought I set mine to 0.5sec...weirdly. But another thing you can do is put the skills back to back because the bot will cast it in the order you put it in.
  • Ulrezaj - Storm Legion
    Ulrezaj - Storm Legion Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Nah no class is comparable, except the face rolling ones maybe with super short cooldowns like fire mage. Bot is "too slow" if you know what I mean, very easy to spot for me too. But I guess you guys go mostly with "randoms" who are "Too slow" and slack as well, with or without bot, and probably "save pots" too lmao and not maximize their DPS... yes I have experience with those 90% of the time with randoms... hell even in guild some are like that.

    my dark vamp's ripple has less then 1 sec cd combined whit only 5 more skills i am 100% sure i am doing max dps for my class and build ofc. But for sin you are right no matter how i set up the bot i still do better if i am the one controlling the char.

    This bot is good for farming sp when u too lazy or too busy in rl . But i would not suggest using it in an instance. Cause then what is the point to play the game? when all you do is stay in front of pc and let the bot do all the playing?
  • Atyllene - Lionheart
    Atyllene - Lionheart Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Bot doesn't take a certain sequence of casting, neither gives spells a priority to be casted except for ones the protection tab. It is more likely to cast whatever it's available in the moment.

    I observed this while testing it in my priest. I set the bot to spam "Divine Shield" and "Light of Healing", but the bot cast any offensive spell even if DS and LoH are not on cooldown.

    So taking this to the subject, bot will not attack or support (depending on class) properly in an instance cause it will cast anything in any order. Bot won't know what is needed specifically in the moment that is required. For example talking in about my priest, bot won't know when Angelic Harmony is needed, or just a simple target Heal; or even it won't know when a person is getting overwhelmed and needs Divine Shield to be protected from a large group of mob.
  • Trogotha - Storm Legion
    Trogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    evakai wrote: »
    surely when you're DPSing a boss you have a set sequence of attacks even when you're going manual? IMO with most classes if you calculate the cooldown+cast time of your attacks, you can set up a sequence decent enough using the 10 slots in the CA system.



    I realise this might be harder with sin+ orbs and i agree (from experience) fire mage is probably the easiest to bot without losing overall DPS. However ive tried with a lvl74 bard too and its not that bad if you get the cord order right.



    In terms of DPSing a boss (i.e. constant same-target DPS) a bot can be same efficiency with most classes as manual control.

    I realise the issue brought up by OP was the "moral" or "principle" use of bots in instances in which case my opinion is that its fine in GT or GL, however less so with gear instances. besides which, if you're botting all the time, what is the point of playing anyway?

    I noticed earlier someone mentioned having "more important" things to do, my advice is log off, go do those things and don't get distracted by this game at all.

    Er, well yes and no. Speaking as a Burst / Prec hybrid MM, I switch rotations depending on if I'm dealing with mobs in an instance, mobs summoned by bosses, or bosses themselves.

    When I've got mobs I use my aoe skills that all have short cds and will sometimes use my personal damage buffs depending on what the mobs are or if I'm the only aoe in the group. One of my skills I use sets my cd time of my two aoe skills to 0s so they only have a casting time but that state only lasts for 8 seconds. The bot system wouldn't know not to alternate between the skills since one is a cone and the other is a line since grouping will determine which one is better at the time. Add in my annoying ability to gather aggro off anything that isn't an aoe caster when confronting mobs and I have to use the mm shield skill from time to ime to live long enough for the healer to cycle to me.

    Going against bosses, I break out more of my DoT skills combined with my hardest hitting single target skills that do 100-200% attack + gobs of bonus damage but have 20-30s cd which I can both up if I turn on a specific buff state along with my damage boosting skill. But doing this requires management of my soul bullet clip which is similar to a sin's orbs in that it gives me both added effects as well as providing a small stat boost.

    All in all, the current bot system isn't well suited to dealing with changing instances because it can't react. What it is great for is something like GT where there is minimal movement involved and the mobs are about as challenging as hitting the same side of the barn over and over again. I can assure you, the bot isn't bright enough to handle changing situations combined with mechanics that require me to manage something other than hp and mp so it will never be able to out dps me on manual control.

    As to your final points, I agree with you.
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  • Frostum - Illyfue
    Frostum - Illyfue Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Bot doesn't take a certain sequence of casting, neither gives spells a priority to be casted except for ones the protection tab. It is more likely to cast whatever it's available in the moment.

    I observed this while testing it in my priest. I set the bot to spam "Divine Shield" and "Light of Healing", but the bot cast any offensive spell even if DS and LoH are not on cooldown.

    So taking this to the subject, bot will not attack or support (depending on class) properly in an instance cause it will cast anything in any order. Bot won't know what is needed specifically in the moment that is required. For example talking in about my priest, bot won't know when Angelic Harmony is needed, or just a simple target Heal; or even it won't know when a person is getting overwhelmed and needs Divine Shield to be protected from a large group of mob.

    This is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT but tell me something. The other day i had to go afk at the 2nd boss in fp because my dog though the toilet papel would make a Nice toy. So now, tell me would you rather prefer me to go afk and let the party die than set the bot to heal them??
    Ofcourse the bot its not gonna know when some1 needs "divine shield" or anything. But at least it kept them up while i was afk cleaning the toilet papel crisis.
  • Atyllene - Lionheart
    Atyllene - Lionheart Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    The other day i had to go afk at the 2nd boss in fp because my dog though the toilet papel would make a Nice toy.

    I lol'd with this xD
    So now, tell me would you rather prefer me to go afk and let the party die than set the bot to heal them??
    Ofcourse the bot its not gonna know when some1 needs "divine shield" or anything. But at least it kept them up while i was afk cleaning the toilet papel crisis.

    As i said in the previous post, even if you set the bot to randomly heal, it will not know if who specifically needs Divine Shield, remember that Patrick does a huge AoE damage and the mages/marksmen sometimes need protection when dealing with the hydras because of their debuff increasing incoming damage.
    I personally rather finish the boss and then tell people i need to afk to clean.
  • PurpleDragon - Eyrda
    PurpleDragon - Eyrda Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Keep!!
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  • junglist101
    junglist101 Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    i want them to remove this botting leave it to grind sp mobs ONLY please it is making your game less fun and with d3 and gw2 soon i would hope you fix this as to be able to compete with them
  • tientiensuser
    tientiensuser Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    They way mmos are designed to keep the player doing the same thing over and over again. The bot is a godsend. More games need to have bots or some kind of afk system to be competitive to FW.
  • tientiensuser
    tientiensuser Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    I use the bot inside instances. Specifically against bosses and sometimes trash mobs. I hover my finger over the start and stop button in case corrections need to be made. Because the bot only rotates through all the spell selections and heals and pots during predetermined settings. There isnt enough commands to perform unexpected things. Instances I have botted are LCS, FortK, GL, Wades, AC, and any of the low level mentors.

    The bot doesnt have navigation settings so you still need to be present. But you dont have to click violently anymore.
  • fuzzygirl
    fuzzygirl Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    HAHA, i dont understand these people at all, Before everyone is whining about afkers, imo botting has some disadvantages but it has more benefits :P. First off all i barely see any1 afking in GL ;),GT and god why would i want to grind myself, and off course we wont be behind from those hacking botters before cuz now pw made us one :P, and it makes my life more active, if you like pressing 1234 all day long you need to get out a lil bit , gosh
  • Nairas - Illyfue
    Nairas - Illyfue Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Er, well yes and no. Speaking as a Burst / Prec hybrid MM, I switch rotations depending on if I'm dealing with mobs in an instance, mobs summoned by bosses, or bosses themselves.

    When I've got mobs I use my aoe skills that all have short cds and will sometimes use my personal damage buffs depending on what the mobs are or if I'm the only aoe in the group. One of my skills I use sets my cd time of my two aoe skills to 0s so they only have a casting time but that state only lasts for 8 seconds. The bot system wouldn't know not to alternate between the skills since one is a cone and the other is a line since grouping will determine which one is better at the time. Add in my annoying ability to gather aggro off anything that isn't an aoe caster when confronting mobs and I have to use the mm shield skill from time to ime to live long enough for the healer to cycle to me.

    Going against bosses, I break out more of my DoT skills combined with my hardest hitting single target skills that do 100-200% attack + gobs of bonus damage but have 20-30s cd which I can both up if I turn on a specific buff state along with my damage boosting skill. But doing this requires management of my soul bullet clip which is similar to a sin's orbs in that it gives me both added effects as well as providing a small stat boost.

    All in all, the current bot system isn't well suited to dealing with changing instances because it can't react. What it is great for is something like GT where there is minimal movement involved and the mobs are about as challenging as hitting the same side of the barn over and over again. I can assure you, the bot isn't bright enough to handle changing situations combined with mechanics that require me to manage something other than hp and mp so it will never be able to out dps me on manual control.

    As to your final points, I agree with you.



    pure burst mm here
    and i 100% agree with you.
    there is no chance in hell that the bot out dds me / plays better then me / plays equil to me
    has any of you bot users even noticed that with bot especially on mobs (not so much on bosses) uses auto attack about half the time?
    i had a lil bit of a crises during an fp where i just had to afk for a couple mins. i got told to put bot on, and did so. i come back and take 2 seconds to watch my toon "aoe" the mobs.
    and i saw very clearly that i was auto attacking way too much. i dint even have mass agro which is an odd occurred when it comes to loads of mobs (unless there's a nice mage :3 )

    bot cant see when aoes are needed.. when you should avoid.. when to shield yourself.
    yes botting when u absolutely have no choice but to go afk is a really good thing.
    yes botting when your doing those dragon orders are like a god send.

    the complaint that is being put forth is not to do with these cases. its about the abusers.
    the people who try bot anything and everything.
    in my opinion.. if u really rather a bot play the game.. why are you still playing? what is the point of even logging on?

    and ive still got no clue how a bot can be better then you can play.

    someone mentioned bots have better reaction times. did u notice u can click the next skill half way through the cast time and the next skill will go? in cases like that.. there is no chance the bot can be better. it pauses between each attack.. brief pause but its still a pause.

    as an aoe i also pay attention to target mob hp. when its low i know i can just target the next mob with a higher hp and either my burn or my aoe will kill the mob.

    for those who think bots are best for dd / attack / heal / better then you.. here is a challenge to you.

    go find a way to bot duel. im interested in those results.

    ive no issues with the dragon order botters. or botting in instances where u have no choice but to go afk unexpectedly. im talking to the abusers of the system. the ones who just feel to bot everything.
  • LalageTarg - Lionheart
    LalageTarg - Lionheart Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To be completely honest, I bot in instances when I have to whack at one thing continuously for an extended period of time ><

    I'm not saying it's right but, I do it because:

    (1) my wrists hurt :( there's only so much clickclick and typing I can do at the speed I need without getting carpal tunnel or something. also once my hands get tired, my manual attacks really slow down (as well as my manual potting etc.) so I'm really not that effective anymore ...

    (2) sometimes I do need a short one sec break - maybe to respond to an urgent pm or take care of something irl - the bot allows me to take a break without going completely afk

    @) I'm not saying it wouldn't have been doable on my own, but since no real strategy was required in the situation and there was a lot going on, it was just less stressful to bot Marina and take her out that way. Of course, being 70 and not taking as many hits from them helped too =P

    on the other hand, I never just leave my bot on and walk away for more than a minute - you never know what crazy shenanigans your bot might get up to xD - unless ofc it's AoS which is super easy to bot. I always check with the party that it's ok though (which it usually is, in the mAoS runs I've been in, almost all of the party has been on bot since we're doing 4 quick runs to max out)

    trying to figure out a way to set up the bot so it's good at just potting for me - once I do that, I'll probably bot much less since there's really no fun in it
  • amarantos
    amarantos Posts: 3,067 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    botting in maos is a godsend. i can go grab food, do some laundry, read forums, etc. instance botting also makes it easier to bring multiple chars at once. instances i like to do by myself (mgt, cv, mec, etc) i can play on one char while another one bots so it doesnt take as long to do. the higher level instances (or at least ones with a huge map) i wouldnt suggest it because bots arent too smart, but it sure as hell makes things easier on lower level ones. or even in higher level instances turning on the bot at a boss is a nice break for myself. it also does make it easier to type things to people during instances.
  • Sergeai - Eyrda
    Sergeai - Eyrda Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    To be completely honest, I bot in instances when I have to whack at one thing continuously for an extended period of time ><

    I'm not saying it's right but, I do it because:

    (1) my wrists hurt :( there's only so much clickclick and typing I can do at the speed I need without getting carpal tunnel or something. also once my hands get tired, my manual attacks really slow down (as well as my manual potting etc.) so I'm really not that effective anymore ...

    (2) sometimes I do need a short one sec break - maybe to respond to an urgent pm or take care of something irl - the bot allows me to take a break without going completely afk

    @) I'm not saying it wouldn't have been doable on my own, but since no real strategy was required in the situation and there was a lot going on, it was just less stressful to bot Marina and take her out that way. Of course, being 70 and not taking as many hits from them helped too =P

    on the other hand, I never just leave my bot on and walk away for more than a minute - you never know what crazy shenanigans your bot might get up to xD - unless ofc it's AoS which is super easy to bot. I always check with the party that it's ok though (which it usually is, in the mAoS runs I've been in, almost all of the party has been on bot since we're doing 4 quick runs to max out)

    trying to figure out a way to set up the bot so it's good at just potting for me - once I do that, I'll probably bot much less since there's really no fun in it

    1.) sorry your wrist hurts ;( ever try a band? They help with the blood flow in your carpal tunnels.

    2.) I agree with that because people don't care if you are dying and go afk, people are just mean.

    3.) this is the only thing I am concerned about. You say the bot does better than you ... (I think it is another example of leveling from 1-50 being to fast and not giving people the ability to fully learn their toon) ... Great reply, you rock!! :-)
  • LalageTarg - Lionheart
    LalageTarg - Lionheart Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    1.) sorry your wrist hurts ;( ever try a band? They help with the blood flow in your carpal tunnels.

    2.) I agree with that because people don't care if you are dying and go afk, people are just mean.

    3.) this is the only thing I am concerned about. You say the bot does better than you ... (I think it is another example of leveling from 1-50 being to fast and not giving people the ability to fully learn their toon) ... Great reply, you rock!! :-)

    thank you <3

    to some extent I do think I leveled too quickly - I've never played a DD before and there was a lot of learning I needed to do (and still need to do) - it's getting better now after I've hit 60 and started doing mentored runs and slower leveling (instead focusing on scroll unsealing, gear/gold farming, etc.)

    and def looking into that band idea thanks!
  • bulltoo
    bulltoo Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Botting has its place,,,

    3 Guildies with 3 X alts can run an Instance NP ithey all know WTH they are doing ,,,


    What burns my butt is morons pulling a lvl 52 sin into a GL with 70+ ...
    completely useless leeching morons,,,

    Be different if the 52 averaged out the Boss lvl but it is too low , , , ,

    I can actually be OK with a 66 into a 70+ GL if its a healer or its ranged ,,,
    it does average out the boss lvl lower BUT a 66 mellee is a useless drain on the healers pots

    I dont care if someone has to Bott to answer the door or save thier kid or Dhiarhea LOL

    But when I pug into a group and 2 the morons have lowbie alts that they bott and they are actually completely useless waste of space and group gets wiped ,,
    well those the morons I cant handle at all

    Some ppl need to grow a Brain or atleast rent one from time to time

    Ya ya I know,, PUG at your own risk,, but the Morons need to smarten up a bit cause they get **'d outa the instance too,, not just the poor suckers they conned,,,
  • jreborn
    jreborn Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I was disappointed when they introduced botting to the game, and now I've lost interest.

    Between botting your gear and afk'ing your levels, this is now a game your computer plays.
  • Demyx - Storm Legion
    Demyx - Storm Legion Posts: 387 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The only time I really use my Bot in non-AFK training ways is when I'm fighting Elite World Bosses. As a Bard it grows very boring keeping the same buffs up over and over, so I programmed the Bot to do that and use the time to either throw emergency heals if needed, or talk to guild members.

    It's not really worth it to use it in instances myself, but I can see the benefit. If I were in an instance that was hard and had to step away...as a Bard I know my buffs will go down if I just go AFK. They only last 30-45 sec each. Even if the bot isn't maxing my DPS (it can't use the NoR combo effectively) it's still at least keeping my buffs up so the rest of the party can continue the fight in my absence. Do I approve of botting whole instances? No. But taking it out of instances all together is only going to hurt the run.

    For those people who say Botting is making characters lazy...I disagree. Being able to power level from 1-60 makes a person more lazy than botting...and you don't even have to bot to power level (you can, but you don't have to).
    Part of the fun of playing the game is wading through 98% of the idiots and trolls to find the 2% who you enjoy playing with.
  • Dordain - Storm Legion
    Dordain - Storm Legion Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The fact that there is even a discussion like this just makes me ....

    headdesk.jpg
  • YggdrasiI - Storm Legion
    YggdrasiI - Storm Legion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    killsnitch wrote: »
    It's ridiculous that so many instances are 1 try, no late entry, and we now have to deal with people who just come in and bot, willing to take whatever they get without having to go through the hardship of playing their character. The bot needs to be disabled in all instances. Please patch ASAP.

    I sort of agree here. Remove bot from instances EXCEPT God's Trial (which you can do with your hands bound and blindfolded).

    Botting world bosses is fine as long as you don't wipe. Botting God's Trial is fine- it's only a kill feast; same for fissure instances. However, people will probably rage at you if you don't set your loot to only roll on your class's scrolls. Botting GL is NOT fine- you're next to useless getting crystals together to get the 20 points.

    I have nothing against botting. In fact, it's one of the reasons that brought me back to FW in the first place. I left FW not long after it introduced the NEED to grind monsters.
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  • Aesica - Storm Legion
    Aesica - Storm Legion Posts: 501 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Botting in GL is fine when it's time to kill the boss though, because he's pretty much a faceroll.
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  • RobynSmith - Storm Legion
    RobynSmith - Storm Legion Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I bot, but I still pay attention. I'll do it in FP, ToK, GL (at boss), for bosses and for clearing mobs. Why? Because there's virtually no difference between me doing it and a bot doing it (maybe a 5%~ dps loss from me, but the bot is better at keeping my mana up). I'm not playing this game to do the equivalent of rubbing my face on a brick wall repeatedly, I'm here to get decent gear and PvP. I couldn't care less about PvM, to me that's just a way to level and get to the point where I can PvP.

    I really don't care if others complain that they never had bots and they leveled just fine, I have other **** to do that doesn't involve spending 12 hours a day clicking 1 through 4 to level up or get **** drops.