Aegis Analysis: Ask Archeden

13

Comments

  • fthawe
    fthawe Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Any talk about how good or bad a class is below level 55 is pointless... Yes, at level 30 a blood vampire can outank, outheal and outdps anything under the sun too in gear instances, does that have any real significance? NO
    The point is, at decent levels (not lv33 ie after 2-3 days) an elemental can do the same with much better dps than an aegis...

    You see, he said MGT. (Mentored god's Trial)
    So, lv33 with some high DPS lv60's and stuff.
    And tanked it. No losing aggro.
    :eek:
  • kiflit
    kiflit Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    fthawe wrote: »
    You see, he said MGT. (Mentored god's Trial)
    So, lv33 with some high DPS lv60's and stuff.
    And tanked it. No losing aggro.
    :eek:

    If the boss was level 44, I highly doubt there were high level DPS toons in his party.
  • kempachisama
    kempachisama Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Well, i'm novice with the class and i get interested by the bloodlust and aegis tree. So, how is the development of the Aegis at pvp's, arenas and etc ? The class can get a good damage at the same time with a good resistance ?
  • Taliesin - Eyrda
    Taliesin - Eyrda Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Well, i'm novice with the class and i get interested by the bloodlust and aegis tree. So, how is the development of the Aegis at pvp's, arenas and etc ? The class can get a good damage at the same time with a good resistance ?

    Aegis' only good skill is the -300 mastery attack at 75, but I don't know if it reduces boss damage - only tested on players.

    Basically aegis is trash and sucks at tanking and has no dps. They also don't really survive longer at 70+.
  • quorr
    quorr Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Well, i'm novice with the class and i get interested by the bloodlust and aegis tree. So, how is the development of the Aegis at pvp's, arenas and etc ? The class can get a good damage at the same time with a good resistance ?
    Badly. Aegis a pure PvE-class. If you want high resistance and moderate damage - make a diamond prot.
  • kempachisama
    kempachisama Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Oh, I see. I've thought that with the outbreak the class could compensate the loss of damage to get def.
  • quorr
    quorr Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Oh, I see. I've thought that with the outbreak the class could compensate the loss of damage to get def.
    Aegis's damage-loss ain't caused by it's "Combat Stance" effect. It's caused by lack of talents shortening the cooldown of the double-hit skills. Aegis's main skill is Evil Ward, whis is a single-hit skill (the weakest one after Bash), while Ele and BL-wars have 2-3 double-hit skills with moderate cooldowns to operate with.
  • Taliesin - Eyrda
    Taliesin - Eyrda Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Well, i'm novice with the class and i get interested by the bloodlust and aegis tree. So, how is the development of the Aegis at pvp's, arenas and etc ? The class can get a good damage at the same time with a good resistance ?
    quorr wrote: »
    Aegis's damage-loss ain't caused by it's "Combat Stance" effect. It's caused by lack of talents shortening the cooldown of the double-hit skills. Aegis's main skill is Evil Ward, whis is a single-hit skill (the weakest one after Bash), while Ele and BL-wars have 2-3 double-hit skills with moderate cooldowns to operate with.

    And ele/BL get more damage increases. crit, crit dmg, etc.. aegis blows.
    if you wanna tank like a boss, marble prot. if you wanna tank and ****, diamond prot.

    aegis shouldn't even exist.
  • Neiapuch - Storm Legion
    Neiapuch - Storm Legion Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    >tanking
    >aegis

    you sir are funny. aegis warriors can try, but will never be as efficient tanking as a protector. they just dont have enough crowd control.

    pointless tree
    pointless?
  • jhereg4250
    jhereg4250 Posts: 485 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Not pointless at all. They just keep saying it because they have convinced themselves it's true for whatever reason. Mostly a focus on sexy DPS numbers I'm guessing. I'm pretty much just shrugging and going on my merry way getting invites to WB hunts, FP, and AS from people who know I am good at what I do.

    This was supposed to be a thread where Aegis warriors talked about their builds, but on cue it was hijacked into another "Aegis is pointless" thread. What can we say, haters are gonna hate.
  • syahaiyub
    syahaiyub Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    The damage for aegis is fine, because the talents cover it, just add mastery and ragefire gems. The problem is the COOLDOWN, 10sec LS and 8sec TS, 4 sec EW and 6sec RS. The aggro is good, I was having hard time keep aggro when I was bloodlust but its better in aegis. its good for tanking and eva build also:cool:
  • Ronyon - Storm Legion
    Ronyon - Storm Legion Posts: 417 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Are there no Moderators on this forum? This thread has been off-topic since post 2. The top sticky in this warrior section is useless.
  • jhereg4250
    jhereg4250 Posts: 485 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Evidently not. I'll be happy to offer an actual opinion on a related subject if you have a question.
  • emiliokatrea
    emiliokatrea Posts: 0
    edited January 2012
    Oh, yeah...the stupid theorycrafters saying x class can't tank and bla bla bla...

    I remember when everyone said that Blademasters couldn't tank in PWI...then, suddendly, no one played Werebeast anymore, because BMs were doing the tanking work while dishing out bajilions of damage and even Elven Archers or Venomancer's Hercules couldn't steal the agro from them...
  • icecoldmalice
    icecoldmalice Posts: 7
    edited January 2012
    This is a tread to help improve the Aegis build, not a bunch of people talking down on people because you failed at it.

    If divine uphold greatly reduce damage taken then that could be a goal for Aegis warriors to obtain. A state of always being in divine uphold.

    But lets not forget this is a game and we should respect each other, these forms seem like a breeding ground for people only confident behind a computer screen. -_-
  • Taliesin - Eyrda
    Taliesin - Eyrda Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    jhereg4250 wrote: »
    Not pointless at all. They just keep saying it because they have convinced themselves it's true for whatever reason. Mostly a focus on sexy DPS numbers I'm guessing. I'm pretty much just shrugging and going on my merry way getting invites to WB hunts, FP, and AS from people who know I am good at what I do.

    This was supposed to be a thread where Aegis warriors talked about their builds, but on cue it was hijacked into another "Aegis is pointless" thread. What can we say, haters are gonna hate.
    You clearly haven't calculated the difference between mastery, resistance, defense, attack, and WRATH.
    Everything is in favor of a. DPS and b. HP
    Def sucks, resistance is pretty gimp. And wrath affects neither.
    Oh, yeah...the stupid theorycrafters saying x class can't tank and bla bla bla...

    It's not theorycrafter, I've played all 3 builds and my warrior was 79 when I quit. Aegis is **** due to wrath/low effect of defense, unless you're doing PVE, and even then you're better off having dps to make the instance not take 2 friggen hours.

    You can tank fine (single target tank isn't a tank ffs I've seen mages tank 75+ instances) as any warrior build. In this game "tanking" is just being able to hold several mobs - marble prot taunt, overgeared mage or MM. We therefore conclude warriors cannot tank because they can only hold one maybe two targets. Unless the party sucks.
  • fthawe
    fthawe Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    You clearly haven't calculated the difference between mastery, resistance, defense, attack, and WRATH.
    Any class gets equal wrath, as 2 sec cast for 2 hits, 1 sec for 1 hit.. etc etc.
    Everything is in favor of a. DPS and b. HP
    Not everything. If you die in 3 seconds and can kill others in that time, get frozen or stunned and you are dead.
    Def sucks, resistance is pretty gimp. And wrath affects neither.
    Gimp is an object, usually a flat trimming of cloth. Don't see what that means.



    It's not theorycrafter, I've played all 3 builds and my warrior was 79 when I quit. Aegis is **** due to wrath/low effect of defense, unless you're doing PVE, and even then you're better off having dps to make the instance not take 2 friggen hours.Build is like (evasion build, attack build) Not Class, talent trees. Aegis doesn't make instances take 2 hours. A nicely geared one can do plenty damage and hold aggro easily. You've played all 3 builds yet you don't know the potential of Aegis, sadly.

    You can tank fine (single target tank isn't a tank ffsAre you brazilian? I've seen mages tank 75+ instances)Extremely geared, with defense, or very good priests. as any warrior build. In this game "tanking" is just being able to hold several mobs - marble prot taunt, overgeared mage or MM. We by "We," you mean "You."therefore conclude warriors cannot tank because they can only hold one maybe two targets.Hmm, bloodsoak can hold aggro, so does lightning wings. Any good Aegis will switch constantly. Unless the party sucks.

    Your rants and answers to them in red.
  • Taliesin - Eyrda
    Taliesin - Eyrda Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    "equal wrath" this clearly went over your head, why do i bother.

    "if you die in 3 seconds" only happens if your gear is ****, your party fails, or you're fighting some gimps who value game status over life.

    Sure aegis can do damage but it doesn't compare anywhere near to blood or ele. All 3 builds hold aggro more or less equally, that is irrelevant anyway since tanks have to be able to keep large numbers of mobs off an aoe - not happening.

    No but clearly you are a BR, comprehension seem to be that general level.

    Bloodsoak and LW will not hold aggro from any AOE class, especially not a 75+ wind mage... wtf you smoking? must be good stuff. Though to be fair I did hold aggro as an ele war... from a 20 levels lower mage. Not like that counts -_-
  • fthawe
    fthawe Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    "equal wrath" this clearly went over your head, why do i bother.
    So why do you bother?

    "If you die in 3 seconds," only happens if your gear is ****, your party fails, or you're fighting some gimps who value game status over life.
    What is a gimp? Not a real definition to describe a human.

    Sure aegis can do damage but it doesn't compare anywhere near to blood or ele. All 3 builds hold aggro more or less equally, that is irrelevant anyway since tanks have to be able to keep large numbers of mobs off an aoe - not happening.
    Something called "Tabbing," which involves tabbing.

    No but clearly you are a BR, comprehension seem to be that general level.
    Yes, I'm a BR that's never been to Brazil nor seen a brazillian in real life.

    Bloodsoak and LW will not hold aggro from any AOE class, especially not a 75+ wind mage... wtf you smoking? must be good stuff. Though to be fair I did hold aggro as an ele war... from a 20 levels lower mage. Not like that counts -_-
    This amuses me.. You can't hold aggro because you're one of those average warriors that only attack one target, never switching so not tanking. Sad.
    You held aggro to 20 levels lower, and elemental? You must be sure proud, must be amazing to you.


    Again, answers to your rants in red.
  • Moaraggro - Eyrda
    Moaraggro - Eyrda Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    the point of an aegis isn't damage - it's damage reduction.
    And to clear things up, wrath REDUCES the damage you do to other players. Redhand is the amount of damage you do to a normal mob. So defense is still viable in pvp...
    A true aegis would distract their opponents (I'm using 3s as an example) and spam debuff skills while the dps kills them, preferably from a distance. The zero minimum assault range would help in this, as would the talent for DU.
    Aegis is all about strategy and working with your team, not 1v3ing everything (or attempting to) as bloodlust and ele warriors tend to do ;)
  • apokolyptika
    apokolyptika Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I, personally, know an Ele war [lv78 now]

    Who currently has these stats:

    HP: 31.2k unbuffed
    ATTK: 3.9k unbuffed, 4.3k with dragon power/warcry
    Def: 1230ish [+/- 40.. t hat sorta range]

    This war holds agg on single target mobs OVER most Prot/Aegis wars.
  • fthawe
    fthawe Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    You never know if the Aegis and prot is good or bad.
    A good one would hold aggro over most mobs
  • Hitoriki - Eyrda
    Hitoriki - Eyrda Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I, personally, know an Ele war [lv78 now]

    Who currently has these stats:

    HP: 31.2k unbuffed
    ATTK: 3.9k unbuffed, 4.3k with dragon power/warcry
    Def: 1230ish [+/- 40.. t hat sorta range]

    This war holds agg on single target mobs OVER most Prot/Aegis wars.
    Did the Aegis war have similar gear?
    Argument is moot if the ele war had better gear ._.
    Xiryn: Human Fire Mage
    Hitoriki: Elf Light Bard
    Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it to the one who endures that the final victory comes.
  • pabpab999
    pabpab999 Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    is def really useless?

    I'm an Assassin, my ToP damage on my Ele warrior (73) friend (he has 40 resistance all except light)

    and my initial damage to him with normal wrath is 3k-ish (he has 600ish def, geared toward crit damage :P)

    and I have this other Warrior Friend (72 Aegis) , (also has 40 resistance ) and my initial damage to him was 1.4k-ish (has somewhere around 1.6k-ish def, geared towards critical defense)

    I don't think defense is that useless.

    I've seen my aegis friend dominate in 6v6 PvP, instead of hitting back when the other team is hitting him, he just runs around casually collecting Orb til it's maxed out. I don't think the Tree is pointless.
  • icauseriots
    icauseriots Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Defense is not useless at all. Defense with a mix of crit dodge is actually a really deadly combo. i peak at almost 1900 defense on my prot and it def does make a difference. For anyone who is saying that they can ' tank' simply cause they can take hits doesn't understand tanking. Tanking is not about taking hits, it's about aggro control. Plain and Simple.
    IGN:Fakie
    Guild:RAWR
    Class: Marble Protector

    Waiting for the world that is Forasken!

    RAWR!
  • ja1980
    ja1980 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    I have been all the trees for war so far. Aegis is a class for 50 or lower. Reason why is cause there damage is about the same as blood or ele but can take more hits and very handy in party's where prot is not there. I tried it at 65+ and it really cuts the speed down that you need to get instances done for example LCS. So it didn't last long for aegis.

    The problem most have been facing with prots not being able to tank (single boss) in party's is the same thing I see all the time. The prot is going a pvp build which makes it easy for a ele or blood war to pull off agro. As for the crowd control icauseriots (Fakie) is right war's cant control like any prot, but we are not meant to. We are DD and back up tanks for when a prot is not around.

    I also agree with def helping and making a difference my lvl 76 Ele war fully buffed with iron bone lvl1 has 1265 def which allows me to step in as single mob tank when needed. And no I did not loose my atk adding the def I have 4200 atk not buffed and when fully buffed (including pet buffs) I have 4600 atk. This is also followed with 392 acc, 297% crit damage, 15% crit chance, and 26K hp (lvl1 wings).
  • Hitoriki - Eyrda
    Hitoriki - Eyrda Posts: 239 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    ja1980 wrote: »
    I have been all the trees for war so far. Aegis is a class for 50 or lower. Reason why is cause there damage is about the same as blood or ele but can take more hits and very handy in party's where prot is not there. I tried it at 65+ and it really cuts the speed down that you need to get instances done for example LCS. So it didn't last long for aegis.

    The problem most have been facing with prots not being able to tank (single boss) in party's is the same thing I see all the time. The prot is going a pvp build which makes it easy for a ele or blood war to pull off agro. As for the crowd control icauseriots (Fakie) is right war's cant control like any prot, but we are not meant to. We are DD and back up tanks for when a prot is not around.

    I also agree with def helping and making a difference my lvl 76 Ele war fully buffed with iron bone lvl1 has 1265 def which allows me to step in as single mob tank when needed. And no I did not loose my atk adding the def I have 4200 atk not buffed and when fully buffed (including pet buffs) I have 4600 atk. This is also followed with 392 acc, 297% crit damage, 15% crit chance, and 26K hp (lvl1 wings).

    26k hp...? *squints*
    Where are your bloodstones?
    Xiryn: Human Fire Mage
    Hitoriki: Elf Light Bard
    Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it to the one who endures that the final victory comes.
  • Discotex - Eyrda
    Discotex - Eyrda Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Okay so lemme chop this up a little bit. FYI, Aegis Lv79 warrior w/ 5k-5.3k attk, 1600 def and sexy gear. ( 70k hp for those wondering )
    Your hp and attack are both way too low. You should have 4200 atk with brute force, and the bare minimum hp is 25000 - though ideally you want no less than 30k.
    of no concern, these stats are low but you can work on it

    Your def is way too high. Def is useless. Utterly. Useless.
    Definitly useless, that's why I can solo relic in 10-15 minutes using Lv70 hp pots.

    Combat stance is also useless unless you're aegis (which is the useless spec).
    Useless spec, you hit harder, take less dmg and have to get killed twice. You're right, completely useless. ( life guardian will make them have to kill you twice )

    Anyways, aegis is completely trash in pvp, def is useless in pvp.
    So horrible in pvp that I can't solo 3v3 parties of people with similar and better gear then myself. <sarcasm

    the -6% damage is not bad but it's still **** considering you lose like 20% dps by not being a better tree.
    YOU don't know the tree if you think it hits for less dmg. Go ahead and look at THIS and scroll down to the bottom where your 3 main wind skills get +15% base dmg. I'll save you the math, same day and same gear i hit harder as aegis. HOWEVER, I crit more often as ele. I give them that much.

    At 75 the -300 mastery skill does reduce 30% damage, but it's not worth the craptastic dps you trade off.
    ONCE again, you don't LOSE dps, you GAIN base dmg. And seeing how most people run arena gear, which gives 5-7% crit dodge, you cannot rely on crits.
    30% mastery reduc, now look at the skill at the bottom of the tree that says LOWERS BASE ATTK BY 20%, granted it's a 75% chance, but all together you just GodlyDan's attack in half for most of his opening PoL.


    And ele/blood are perfectly viable single-target tanks as you have the highest hp in the game.
    Also, IF you have LOW hp Blood gets more HP then aegis. HOWEVER, once you get more HP, aegis becomes the HP build. You get 4% from talents, and 6% from Dragon power. VS the 6% +1200 in blood(numbers might be off, i'm not a blood warrior. But trust me, more hp as Aegis at higher end gear. )

    All that said, I didn't read the rest of the pages of this thread. So i'll leave you with this.
    Need help playing Aegis for PVP?-slightly outdated as of Lv90 patch-
    tinyurl.com/AegisGuide
    For other inquiries, refer to thread in warrior section!
    [SIGPIC]Discotex -Aegis[/SIGPIC]
  • im2gr84u
    im2gr84u Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Lol none thats so wrong, check out now with Nyos/Dyos who has the most hp, or crit. Aegis is really pretty decent now.

  • XDeadly - Eyrda
    XDeadly - Eyrda Posts: 667 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    shyren
    You may not upload animated images.

    da fuq?