Are Protectors useless at lvl 70+?

kanister
kanister Posts: 16 Arc User
edited March 2012 in Protector Discussion
Topic, people have been telling me this. . .
Post edited by kanister on
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Comments

  • Unbrokenable - Lionheart
    Unbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    They aren't competely useless, but they aren't necessary. I would be more okay with it if it weren't for this: Protectors effectively have to choose either PvE or PvP.

    Marble Protectors can PvE but aren't that great at PvP.
    Diamond/Granite protectors are good at PvP but can't hold hate on mobs at all.

    The only other class that has this problem is a Priest, offset by the fact that Divine Priests are still needed in PvP so there is still a do-everything tree.

    You can still do everything, just that there's always going to be someone else doing it better. If you haven't leveled very far and aren't too attached to this class I'd suggest rerolling something else, but it's still possible to play a prot.


    But anyway, a breakdown of my experiences if you care to read a wall of text:


    PvE:

    Warriors were always able to tank single targets just fine, the only advantage a (Marble) Protector had was the ability to tank multiple mobs effectively.

    In the Lv70 instance (FP) mobs generally aren't a huge problem due to most AoE at that point being geared enough to not instantly melt when 2 mobs hit them. Additionally, the fact that the hardest part about the final boss (Kluer) is his lightning skill which does massive damage actually makes it easier for a Warrior to tank since Warriors have higher HP for the same gear level.

    In the Lv75 instance (AS) mobs are practically non-existent and the ones that do exist are almost trivial. In this case there is basically zero benefit that a Protector has over a Warrior. In fact, if I were making a party I would probably prefer a Warrior, since they put out more DPS and have Dragon Power which attack-buffs the entire team, making for a faster run.

    In the special Lv75 instance GoS, Protectors are useful again on the 2nd and 3rd boss, due to the annoying mobs.


    PvP:

    Diamond protectors are great for their CC ability, but have a few flaws:
    - A water bard completely shuts down a protector. The only way I see a reasonably geared water bard losing is carelessness.
    - Protectors are melee. The other mass-CC talents, ice mage and glacial priest, both have the advantage of being ranged. Even if diamond protectors actually CC better (I'm not sure if they do), the need to get in the face of people to CC is a major flaw.
    - Ironically, diamond protectors are super susceptible to other CC due to melee range and long cast times.

    Granite protectors are great for support ability, but:
    - Gets owned by CC. Even more so than diamonds.
    - Although they have awesome debuffs, it's really hard to stack them on other players because they will run around and CC you.
    - You'll feel like **** even though you're actually helping your team a lot with your support abilities, due to the fact that you can't really do much by yourself.
  • Thordain - Lionheart
    Thordain - Lionheart Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I'd say the same can be said about any class. No one class is absolutely needed in the game once everyone is well geared. Yes, Protectors have a larger PVP/PVE divide. But on the other hand with so few Protectors about, there's still a large demand for them in PVE.

    Fort Khoway parties are always asking for one. World Boss parties can be squishier if you've a Prot. Same with GOS/AS.
    - This space for rent. -
  • asfwersssf
    asfwersssf Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    And of course bugs like this:
    Blessing of the Stonemen: increase your defense by 1% and reduce incoming damage by 1% for 30 minutes. It's bugged because it doesn't do the calculation on the defense displayed in status screen. I have 1200+ defense and gain only 6 defense with that skill. I gain 6 defense so it's assuming I have 600 defense (6/.01).

    Rage of Mind: increase the duration of mental focus by 60 seconds. Each stack of fury increase your attack by .2%.

    Extending mental focus by 60 seconds is fine but the second part the attack calculation is wrong. After gaining 10 stacks of fury my attack only increase by 36 despite me having 2700+ min attack. The calculation here is based off a fixed 1800 attack (36/.02).

    Do you see a pattern? Whenever a formula calls for percent attack calculation 1800 is used. Whenever a formula calls for percent defense calculation 600 is used no matter what is displayed in the status screen. This would mean a lot of the protector skills are miscalculated--any skills that calls for percent attack calculation...force of fury, upheaval, entrench, Retaliation aura, force of the land, etc. are bugged and easy to fix.
  • Unbrokenable - Lionheart
    Unbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I'll test Rage of the Mind next time I get the chance...
  • saacred
    saacred Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    You might recalculate, I believe (but haven't verified before this reply) that the calculations of the description are correct, BUT only if you apply for you chars BASE attack and def, etc, NOT by the adjusted attack/def on your status screen which is increased by your various gear items.

    Get naked, Then do the math again.
  • DeltaTroopa - Storm Legion
    DeltaTroopa - Storm Legion Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    saacred wrote: »
    Get naked, Then do the math again.

    That's my favorite type of math!
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  • asfwersssf
    asfwersssf Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I recalculated with no items on. My attack displayed in the status screen was 613 and my defense 286.

    Rage of the mind:increase the duration of mental focus by 60 seconds. Each stack of fury increase your attack by .2%.

    After casting mental focus and mass taunt to get the soulweb spiders to attack me, and gaining 10 stacks of fury, my attack went up to 625. Which is an increase of 12 (625-613). This is correct. It's just rounding. But wear some items and the calculation is all wrong. No where in the description it says only works when wearing no items.

    Just so you know warrior's frenzy stance does not work like this. It uses the attack displayed in the status screen(with items equipped). Here's the description(displayed under the portrait of my character) on my newbie ele warrior frenzy stance after one stack of frenzy stance--increase your attack by .6%+50. My min attack was 630 and went up to 684. [(630*1.006)+50 =683.78]. Which is correct. This means it stacks even on top of the warriors attack increasing passive, power of wildness.

    Force of Fury: deals 130% of your attack +****. What does 130% of your attack mean? Is it your attack naked, or with all items equipped including gems, or something else?

    Can someone test out the glittering necklace and ring set if you have it?



    Blessing of the Stonemen: increase your defense by 1% and reduce incoming damage by 1% for 30 minutes.

    Completely naked and with no buffs my defense was 286. Keep in mind that I have level 5 tenacious armor( 30 increase in def). So if I want to undo tenacious armor(286-30).

    After casting blessings of the stonemen my defense went up to 288. (286*.01)=2.86

    Now lets undo tenacious armor 286-30=256. 256*.01=2.56.

    If this skill doesn't take into account the items I am wearing how come I gain 6 def when I have 1200+ def. It should be 2 no matter how much defense increasing items I am wearing.
  • RattuS - Dyos
    RattuS - Dyos Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    They aren't competely useless, but they aren't necessary. I would be more okay with it if it weren't for this: Protectors effectively have to choose either PvE or PvP.

    Marble Protectors can PvE but aren't that great at PvP.
    Diamond/Granite protectors are good at PvP but can't hold hate on mobs at all.

    The only other class that has this problem is a Priest, offset by the fact that Divine Priests are still needed in PvP so there is still a do-everything tree.

    You can still do everything, just that there's always going to be someone else doing it better. If you haven't leveled very far and aren't too attached to this class I'd suggest rerolling something else, but it's still possible to play a prot.


    But anyway, a breakdown of my experiences if you care to read a wall of text:


    PvE:

    Warriors were always able to tank single targets just fine, the only advantage a (Marble) Protector had was the ability to tank multiple mobs effectively.

    In the Lv70 instance (FP) mobs generally aren't a huge problem due to most AoE at that point being geared enough to not instantly melt when 2 mobs hit them. Additionally, the fact that the hardest part about the final boss (Kluer) is his lightning skill which does massive damage actually makes it easier for a Warrior to tank since Warriors have higher HP for the same gear level.

    In the Lv75 instance (AS) mobs are practically non-existent and the ones that do exist are almost trivial. In this case there is basically zero benefit that a Protector has over a Warrior. In fact, if I were making a party I would probably prefer a Warrior, since they put out more DPS and have Dragon Power which attack-buffs the entire team, making for a faster run.

    In the special Lv75 instance GoS, Protectors are useful again on the 2nd and 3rd boss, due to the annoying mobs.


    PvP:

    Diamond protectors are great for their CC ability, but have a few flaws:
    - A water bard completely shuts down a protector. The only way I see a reasonably geared water bard losing is carelessness.
    - Protectors are melee. The other mass-CC talents, ice mage and glacial priest, both have the advantage of being ranged. Even if diamond protectors actually CC better (I'm not sure if they do), the need to get in the face of people to CC is a major flaw.
    - Ironically, diamond protectors are super susceptible to other CC due to melee range and long cast times.

    Granite protectors are great for support ability, but:
    - Gets owned by CC. Even more so than diamonds.
    - Although they have awesome debuffs, it's really hard to stack them on other players because they will run around and CC you.
    - You'll feel like **** even though you're actually helping your team a lot with your support abilities, due to the fact that you can't really do much by yourself.
    I quoted this post for truth, couldn't agree more. Protector is just not THE class but still fun to play if you can handle it.
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  • Trogotha - Storm Legion
    Trogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Much <3 to Prots from a supersquishy aggro generating burst MM. I always feel better if one of you tags along in a pt that isn't doing GT since it means I can really cut loose and not have to worry about the consequences of stealing aggro on mobs. ;)
    Dear PWE Staff: I can haz avatar nao plox? :D
    For SCIENCE (and the LULZ)!
  • Unbrokenable - Lionheart
    Unbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    asfwersssf wrote: »
    Rage of Mind: increase the duration of mental focus by 60 seconds. Each stack of fury increase your attack by .2%.

    Extending mental focus by 60 seconds is fine but the second part the attack calculation is wrong. After gaining 10 stacks of fury my attack only increase by 36 despite me having 2700+ min attack. The calculation here is based off a fixed 1800 attack (36/.02).

    Tested this on two separate protectors. The numbers we got were 157 and 158 attack damage with Rage of Mind Lv5 and 10 stacks of Fury. The protectors' level and attack damage were both different.

    So it does appear there is a bug here.
  • seetoo
    seetoo Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Please do file a ticket and add a link to this page. Help me wake them up by saying "You gave us a broken game". I'm already working on 2 tickets with them.
  • Thordain - Lionheart
    Thordain - Lionheart Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Tested this on two separate protectors. The numbers we got were 157 and 158 attack damage with Rage of Mind Lv5 and 10 stacks of Fury. The protectors' level and attack damage were both different.

    So it does appear there is a bug here.

    It's possible the calculations are based off unrefined, ungemmed gear. Possibly unidentified/no additionals. So just the base stats of the gear. This may not be true of all percentage based calculations of course.
    - This space for rent. -
  • Unbrokenable - Lionheart
    Unbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    It's possible the calculations are based off unrefined, ungemmed gear. Possibly unidentified/no additionals. So just the base stats of the gear. This may not be true of all percentage based calculations of course.

    That's possible, I'd need to test it on like a lv30 protector to confirm. That kind of sucks if it's true though, what I really need is scaling damage.
  • asfwersssf
    asfwersssf Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    That's possible, I'd need to test it on like a lv30 protector to confirm. That kind of sucks if it's true though, what I really need is scaling damage.
    Sadly, this is how it is. Summation of only the white stats.
  • bainet
    bainet Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    asfwersssf wrote: »
    And of course bugs like this:
    Blessing of the Stonemen: increase your defense by 1% and reduce incoming damage by 1% for 30 minutes. It's bugged because it doesn't do the calculation on the defense displayed in status screen. I have 1200+ defense and gain only 6 defense with that skill. I gain 6 defense so it's assuming I have 600 defense (6/.01).

    Rage of Mind: increase the duration of mental focus by 60 seconds. Each stack of fury increase your attack by .2%.

    Extending mental focus by 60 seconds is fine but the second part the attack calculation is wrong. After gaining 10 stacks of fury my attack only increase by 36 despite me having 2700+ min attack. The calculation here is based off a fixed 1800 attack (36/.02).

    Do you see a pattern? Whenever a formula calls for percent attack calculation 1800 is used. Whenever a formula calls for percent defense calculation 600 is used no matter what is displayed in the status screen. This would mean a lot of the protector skills are miscalculated--any skills that calls for percent attack calculation...force of fury, upheaval, entrench, Retaliation aura, force of the land, etc. are bugged and easy to fix.

    I'll add to that, there are talents both in the diamond tree and for all prots in general that give you health % both of those don't count your full HP when they apply the %

    At first I thought they were mutually exclusive, as in 6% (diamond talent) hp is applied to your base hp.
    And then 4% (general prot talent) is applied to your base hp and added on top, rather than applied to the result after the first % is applied. So it is base + (base x .04) + (base x .6) as in; base + (base x .1) rather than an accumulating base each time you add % of hp. Admittedly it would not make that a huge difference so I didn't care either way, but after I did the math, it is not even taking in my real HP base, that, I do care about O.o the difference there is a huge one.
  • bainet
    bainet Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Tested this on two separate protectors. The numbers we got were 157 and 158 attack damage with Rage of Mind Lv5 and 10 stacks of Fury. The protectors' level and attack damage were both different.

    So it does appear there is a bug here.

    I believe that was the point he was trying to make, if I understood the post. Regardless of your attack you get a set amount of attack added at 10 fury with Rage of Mind at lvl 5, instead of getting an addition of 10% of your >actual< attack. So either the description of the talent is wrong or the way it functions is incorrect.

    As in someone with 2800 attack gets 157 and someone with 3500 attack also gets 157 additional attack with full fury. <== faulty talent description and/or faulty talent
  • bainet
    bainet Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    They aren't competely useless, but they aren't necessary. I would be more okay with it if it weren't for this: Protectors effectively have to choose either PvE or PvP.

    Marble Protectors can PvE but aren't that great at PvP.
    Diamond/Granite protectors are good at PvP but can't hold hate on mobs at all.

    The only other class that has this problem is a Priest, offset by the fact that Divine Priests are still needed in PvP so there is still a do-everything tree.

    You can still do everything, just that there's always going to be someone else doing it better. If you haven't leveled very far and aren't too attached to this class I'd suggest rerolling something else, but it's still possible to play a prot.


    But anyway, a breakdown of my experiences if you care to read a wall of text:


    PvE:

    Warriors were always able to tank single targets just fine, the only advantage a (Marble) Protector had was the ability to tank multiple mobs effectively.

    In the Lv70 instance (FP) mobs generally aren't a huge problem due to most AoE at that point being geared enough to not instantly melt when 2 mobs hit them. Additionally, the fact that the hardest part about the final boss (Kluer) is his lightning skill which does massive damage actually makes it easier for a Warrior to tank since Warriors have higher HP for the same gear level.

    In the Lv75 instance (AS) mobs are practically non-existent and the ones that do exist are almost trivial. In this case there is basically zero benefit that a Protector has over a Warrior. In fact, if I were making a party I would probably prefer a Warrior, since they put out more DPS and have Dragon Power which attack-buffs the entire team, making for a faster run.

    In the special Lv75 instance GoS, Protectors are useful again on the 2nd and 3rd boss, due to the annoying mobs.


    PvP:

    Diamond protectors are great for their CC ability, but have a few flaws:
    - A water bard completely shuts down a protector. The only way I see a reasonably geared water bard losing is carelessness.
    - Protectors are melee. The other mass-CC talents, ice mage and glacial priest, both have the advantage of being ranged. Even if diamond protectors actually CC better (I'm not sure if they do), the need to get in the face of people to CC is a major flaw.
    - Ironically, diamond protectors are super susceptible to other CC due to melee range and long cast times.

    Granite protectors are great for support ability, but:
    - Gets owned by CC. Even more so than diamonds.
    - Although they have awesome debuffs, it's really hard to stack them on other players because they will run around and CC you.
    - You'll feel like **** even though you're actually helping your team a lot with your support abilities, due to the fact that you can't really do much by yourself.

    I would Go further to say that now Protectors are unnecessary in any instance, I've played a marble Prot till lvl 79 and started experimenting with other trees at that point, some of which have glitched talents which I'll post about on another thread. But I've noticed that after the update that introduced gear enhancement transfer and to some extent even before then when for example a mage or a marksman with full arena gear can easily get 30k+ hp and if purple or enhanced to more than +9 40k+, it is no longer necessary to have a Protector class tank in any pve party, Warriors already had higher hp than prots so they could tank since long ago, but now even mages and assassins or (and this is most amusing) a wind bard, can tank in any instance including AS and GoS, both of which I've watched assassins tank quite effortlessly. And those none protector class tanks wont lose their agro to a divine priest because of a combination or having enough dmg if they are gemmed correctly and the reduced agro priests get from their talent tree, so the healer wont suffer, effectively Making Protectors an accessory. Despite the relatively high base attack protectors have (the difference is not huge, but protectors have slightly higher base attack than any class other than the Warrior class) with the slow cast time of protector skills, the absence of any DoT, and the fact that all their skills only hit once unlike a number of other classes; Protectors do very little dps, Making them mainly useful in pve for holding agro. Now that they are not required for that function, they are simply filling a space in the party that a better DD could potentially occupy.

    It Makes a lot more sense for a party to take almost any other class into instances as long as they have players with enough HP to tank. If you have a warrior with 40k+ hp (and I'm seeing assassins with 50k unbuffed running around the place, so a warrior like that is common place now) or some other high dmg class with good hp, then you can do AS, GoS or any easier instance with ease. And as of now there is no world boss that "needs" a protector to tank it.

    I've run AS with Mage tanks, AS with bard tanks (sigh.. ), FP with Mage tanks, GoS with assassin tanks, and GoS with Glacial Priest tanks, There's very little real need for a protector tank in PvE these days, anyone can do it.
  • asfwersssf
    asfwersssf Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    bainet wrote: »
    I would Go further to say that now Protectors are unnecessary in any instance, I've played a marble Prot till lvl 79 and started experimenting with other trees at that point, some of which have glitched talents which I'll post about on another thread. But I've noticed that after the update that introduced gear enhancement transfer and to some extent even before then when for example a mage or a marksman with full arena gear can easily get 30k+ hp and if purple or enhanced to more than +9 40k+, it is no longer necessary to have a Protector class tank in any pve party, Warriors already had higher hp than prots so they could tank since long ago, but now even mages and assassins or (and this is most amusing) a wind bard, can tank in any instance including AS and GoS, both of which I've watched assassins tank quite effortlessly. And those none protector class tanks wont lose their agro to a divine priest because of a combination or having enough dmg if they are gemmed correctly and the reduced agro priests get from their talent tree, so the healer wont suffer, effectively Making Protectors an accessory. Despite the relatively high base attack protectors have (the difference is not huge, but protectors have slightly higher base attack than any class other than the Warrior class) with the slow cast time of protector skills, the absence of any DoT, and the fact that all their skills only hit once unlike a number of other classes; Protectors do very little dps, Making them mainly useful in pve for holding agro. Now that they are not required for that function, they are simply filling a space in the party that a better DD could potentially occupy.

    It Makes a lot more sense for a party to take almost any other class into instances as long as they have players with enough HP to tank. If you have a warrior with 40k+ hp (and I'm seeing assassins with 50k unbuffed running around the place, so a warrior like that is common place now) or some other high dmg class with good hp, then you can do AS, GoS or any easier instance with ease. And as of now there is no world boss that "needs" a protector to tank it.

    I've run AS with Mage tanks, AS with bard tanks (sigh.. ), FP with Mage tanks, GoS with assassin tanks, and GoS with Glacial Priest tanks, There's very little real need for a protector tank in PvE these days, anyone can do it.

    I'm also a level 79 protector. It seems when a protector tanks instances take longer but somewhat easier. I have seen this theme in other Asian CS games where the high damage low survival class is high damage and good survival end game. It's just bad game design. It creates high demand for certain class items and thus high prices. So you can play a class that has everything--high damage, good survival--and spend a lot of time in game farming the gold for the items or if you want it easier CS or you can play a class that was designed badly with bugged skills. I don't think they will ever nerf other classes. Things will remain the same. It's get used to it or find something else to play. Me, personally, I'm waiting for Diablo 3 to come out and hope it doesn't disappoint.
  • jelvis589
    jelvis589 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    wow this is sad to hear.. I was going to start playing this game as some of it sounded very fun.. and the class's sounded cool to play.. But I like to tank or heal and I'm mostly a PVE guy.. so sounds like this game wouldn't be for me!! thanks
  • icauseriots
    icauseriots Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I am a 76 prot and i would love to see someone in this game out tank me. Just because a class can simply take hits and dish out DPS doesn't make them a tank. Prots have a really good defense buff, with retal aura and healing aura (helping to effect party in beneficial ways), and the damage reduction (making us easier to heal along iwth healing aura), this class is still the best tank in the game. This class with out a doubt not useless. I'm an attack based marble prot and i am useful both pvp and pve. The slows and stuff in pvp can easily be over come and with soul of stone and good timing you should be able to beat anyone. This class just has to be built right and played right as i have seen plently of other people from various classes be completely useless. I have out dps'd DPS classes and kept people alive when the priest should have. The class isn't useless, it's the people playing class that are being useless.
    IGN:Fakie
    Guild:RAWR
    Class: Marble Protector

    Waiting for the world that is Forasken!

    RAWR!
  • fipne
    fipne Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    from a non prot point of view and experience, prots are usually needed in weak teams or levelled teams (ie attempting fp @ 70). generally in strong teams, you dont need a prot or war to tank. The sin can do just fine. sin/mage/bard/priest/mm + vamp/war

    prots help out a lot when your team is weak and the priest/bard dont need to work as hard

    you bring prots to instances to save on repair bills/ durability and their gear is worth like 10gold.
  • Unbrokenable - Lionheart
    Unbrokenable - Lionheart Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Prots have a really good defense buff, with retal aura and healing aura (helping to effect party in beneficial ways), and the damage reduction (making us easier to heal along iwth healing aura), this class is still the best tank in the game.
    True, but how often do you see a priest actually have trouble keeping someone's HP up?

    (1) The mob has some severe healing reduction debuffs going on (typically avoidable and doesn't come up often), or
    (2) An AoE knocks down multiple people's HP (in which case 1 person needing slightly less healing isn't going to make much of a difference), or
    (3) Your priest is just bad


    And yes it is always possible for someone to be worse than you. And yes it's possible to do fine as a protector. But for the same amount of skill/gear most other classes would perform better.
  • lylfo5
    lylfo5 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Retaliation aura is a 99% pvp skill btw, it doesnt work on bosses.
  • Kumbh - Storm Legion
    Kumbh - Storm Legion Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    ret aura is pvp . pve though it doesnt work on bosses but does on mobs. mass taunt a group of mobs put ret aura and go afk come bck and see
  • Kumbh - Storm Legion
    Kumbh - Storm Legion Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    and beside for any1 who thinks prots unnecssary .........simple plain advice quit playin a prot if u are playin one. or else quit takin them to party . problem solved yea?
  • asfwersssf
    asfwersssf Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    and beside for any1 who thinks prots unnecssary .........simple plain advice quit playin a prot if u are playin one. or else quit takin them to party . problem solved yea?

    Why should someone have to quit a character they leveled to endgame to find out it's a useless class? Why weren't they informed at the character creation screen---will become useless endgame? and Why do the developers seem to have favorites when it comes to classes? Take the warrior class for example--2 skills hit twice with increase crit chance, buff to increase masteries, attack and health, can have the same amount of defense as a protector or slightly less, more hp than a protector. Warrior tanks one target, protector tanks the whole map.
  • icauseriots
    icauseriots Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    True, but how often do you see a priest actually have trouble keeping someone's HP up?

    (1) The mob has some severe healing reduction debuffs going on (typically avoidable and doesn't come up often), or
    (2) An AoE knocks down multiple people's HP (in which case 1 person needing slightly less healing isn't going to make much of a difference), or
    (3) Your priest is just bad


    And yes it is always possible for someone to be worse than you. And yes it's possible to do fine as a protector. But for the same amount of skill/gear most other classes would perform better.

    I have talked to plenty of priest who say that healing a prot is way easier. With the damage reduction and the healing aura it just makes life easier for them. They don't have to concentrate as hard. The reason warriors are built with so much hp is because they lack damage reduction and the high defense. I'm sorry but an ele warrior(which is what most war's are) do not have 1500+ base defense. -.- The defense DOES in fact make a difference with damage as well. Yes, I realize retal aura is pvp, but it does help with group aggro. Of course with GoS and AS it's not really as needed but it does help. With that new instance coming out i'm betting money that prots are going to be needed for the group aggro. When the tank doesn't really have to be watched with the healing, it makes keeping the squishy classes up a lot easier. I have seen a bunch of priests have trouble keeping some one up. Not everyone you go with every single time is going to have pro gear or a lot of gems. Having a prot in the party does in fact makes surviving a lot of easier. (granted the prot knows what he/she is doing) Prots without a doubt have a purpose but the lack of good/decent prots is what makes it hard. Other classes have had to step up and the role of tank. That does not mean that they are better tanks than the class that was made to be the tank in the first place.
    IGN:Fakie
    Guild:RAWR
    Class: Marble Protector

    Waiting for the world that is Forasken!

    RAWR!
  • thethibault
    thethibault Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ok I was (for the most part) the top protector on my server before i quit. The problem with protectors is that in pvp they have no way of getting to the enemy without getting cc'd to death. Any ice mage, water bard, dark vamp, or sin that has half a brain can kill a protector 10 lvls higher with 1 lvl higher wings. (yes at lvl 80 with lvl 2 wings i was beaten by a lvl 70 water bard without wings SOLELY because mana is STUPID AS HELL).

    As for PvE it is true that protectors do take the least dmg and do reduce the total dmg taken by the entire team with the defense buff. HOWEVER a priest cannot just forget about a prot in a high lvl instance unless that prot is very well geared. Ya, i was pretty much invincible in pve after i had 48k hp and 1.8k def, nothing can hurt me woopdie do. When i recall back to the days before i got that buff i was actually worse for the team than a buff vamp tanking. The vamp does take more dmg, this is TRUE, but the major difference is that the vamp can do something that the prot should be able to do, SELF HEAL. I have been talking to my guild members about this for months the way for them to fix the balance of prots in tanking instances is give them a self heal. Because with that the priest CAN actually just forget about them, and thats what they were designed for. As it is now sure the mob will never be able to kill me, but it couldnt kill the vamp, war, bard, sin, or priest at my gear lvl either. And all of those classes give the team something extra that the protector CANNOT, whether it be to do some actually decent dps (vamp, war, sin) or to cast heals (bard, priest).

    Healing a prot is easier because we wont get spiked down very easily, BUT in a difficult situation a prot always REQUIRES heals which makes them a pretty bad tank imho. A war can fulfill that role just as easily. A vamp makes the best tank imo solely because the priest does not have to worry about them at ALL.

    ok so ya thats my 2 cents from a rather ticked off player at this game's obvious unbalance.
  • Kumbh - Storm Legion
    Kumbh - Storm Legion Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    1 golden word u sucked playin a prot if u quitted playin 1... u sucked so bad u ended up makin another class.. prots are fascinating to look at when makin characters guess thats what made u feel u can be one.. guess u arent a tank in heart....
    granted m not OP nor CSed nor the best tank in game but i do my bit and i do good, i kill more ppl in arena than i have seen other prots do and m not diamond .. besides talkin about slow dps lets see

    i did 3x 11 min FP runs with 1 MM 2 prots 2 priests and a bard... guess its not as slackish is it?

    GTFO frm the prot section if u are a loser in the class and go to the class section u play...


    thank u very much
  • Lapisdurus - Dyos
    Lapisdurus - Dyos Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    A few thoughts about marble protector, Lv80:

    A Tank has to keep aggro, for marble on 10x Fury:

    Eg. aggro calcs (please correct me if wrong):

    Upheaval (8s CD):
    (100% + 30% [Magma Burst] ) attack + (3526 bonus * (100% + 20% [Fury] + 100% [Firepower Coverage])) * (100% + 100% [Magma Burst] + 60% [Abominable Will])

    assume 3k attack:
    (1,3 * 3000 + 3526 * 2,2) * 2,6 = 30,3k aggro

    Earthen Penance Lv2 (15s CD):
    (100% + 30% [Energy of the Land]) attack + ((6168 + 30% def) bonus * (100% + 100% [Firepower Coverage])) * (100% + 60% [Abominable Will])

    assume 3k attack, 1k def:
    (1,3 * 3000 + (6168 + 0,3 * 1000) * 2) * 1,6 = 27k aggro

    without crits and masteries

    I'd like to see a similar aggro calc from any other class

    Marble seems best at holding aggro

    Also, Mental Focus skill description states that Fury will increase aggro. I'm not sure if this simple refers to the different aggro boni based on fury that other talents/skills give, or if it means there is yet another aggro multiplier to be added to above calcs.

    A Tank has to survive, for Marble:
    * 21% dmg reduction in Guardian Mode (quasi-permanent)
    * high def.
    * reduce target attack by 35%: 15% (Crushing Punch) + 10% (Taunt at 10x Rage) (+10% if you put 5 pts in Granite Mental Protection)
    * reduce crit chance % + crit dmg % on target
    * 11sec Invulnerability (+ self-heal) / 5-4min CD; 60% dmg reduction for 12 sec / 2min CD

    But, one could argue, no need for a tank, though, with "squishies" at 30k+ hp, I guess :)