Imbalanced

Ghundam - Eyrda
Ghundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
edited January 2012 in General Discussion
Yes and amazingly this will be fixed promptly but mms will not get better defense, sins and bors will not get nerfed and bugs like being unable to run from sin stun etc will not be fixed.
Post edited by Ghundam - Eyrda on
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  • Ghundam - Eyrda
    Ghundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    what did I tell you. See how quick the response is to a cash shop issue. I think my time in the cash shop is about to become limited. Fashion issue more important than game balance or gameplay issues.
  • lokisdottir
    lokisdottir Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    what did I tell you. See how quick the response is to a cash shop issue. I think my time in the cash shop is about to become limited. Fashion issue more important than game balance or gameplay issues.

    Or possibly it's easier and faster to fix a graphics issue than to rebalance all the classes?

    I've explained multiple times that the devs are working on class balance but those kinds of things aren't fixed in weekly patches, they're fixed in the content updates.
  • Ghundam - Eyrda
    Ghundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I will see how long it takes them to do anything about how balance currently stands. By my count its has been quite a while. Perhaps I am spoiled by games where balance issues could be sorted out in weeklies or at the very least developers gave feedback assuring players that they knew about the problem and let them know its being worked on. Its difficult to know where you stand when you have 0 official idea of whats ahead. What little info has leaked out so far offers no solace thus far.

    Anyway clearly my saying anything won't make things go any faster so im out of here. I'll go back to game and avoid pvp like the plague and hope that one day the developers will realise that assassins and vamps are not the only two classes in this game.

    Right now Forsaken World seems more like Forsaken Dwarves!
  • lokisdottir
    lokisdottir Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I will see how long it takes them to do anything about how balance currently stands. By my count its has been quite a while. Perhaps I am spoiled by games where balance issues could be sorted out in weeklies or at the very least developers gave feedback assuring players that they knew about the problem and let them know its being worked on. Its difficult to know where you stand when you have 0 official idea of whats ahead. What little info has leaked out so far offers no solace thus far.

    Anyway clearly my saying anything won't make things go any faster so im out of here. I'll go back to game and avoid pvp like the plague and hope that one day the developers will realise that assassins and vamps are not the only two classes in this game.

    Right now Forsaken World seems more like Forsaken Dwarves!

    Our devs are in china, they do give feedback, but it would be on the Chinese forums. You can also look at the patch notes there for upcoming updates and expansions that will let you know what will be changed in about 3 months here....
  • Ashtan - Lionheart
    Ashtan - Lionheart Posts: 825 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I will see how long it takes them to do anything about how balance currently stands. By my count its has been quite a while. Perhaps I am spoiled by games where balance issues could be sorted out in weeklies or at the very least developers gave feedback assuring players that they knew about the problem and let them know its being worked on. Its difficult to know where you stand when you have 0 official idea of whats ahead. What little info has leaked out so far offers no solace thus far.

    Anyway clearly my saying anything won't make things go any faster so im out of here. I'll go back to game and avoid pvp like the plague and hope that one day the developers will realise that assassins and vamps are not the only two classes in this game.

    Right now Forsaken World seems more like Forsaken Dwarves!

    So what's imbalanced about classes exactly? Because your specific class can't own all classes it's unbalanced? No. Every class has the strong and weak points against other classes.
    Show me one class that can outbeat all the rest no problem. And don't even say vamps. Sins and MM's are a vamps worst enemy.


    Anyways as Loki said, fixing class bugs vs fixing graphical errors isn't that easy... Let's see you get a job working for this game and see how fast you fix bugs. They do what they can. It's F2P... but I guess that also means Free 2 Whine as well.
  • Ghundam - Eyrda
    Ghundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    So what's imbalanced about classes exactly? Because your specific class can't own all classes it's unbalanced? No. Every class has the strong and weak points against other classes.
    Show me one class that can outbeat all the rest no problem. And don't even say vamps. Sins and MM's are a vamps worst enemy.


    Anyways as Loki said, fixing class bugs vs fixing graphical errors isn't that easy... Let's see you get a job working for this game and see how fast you fix bugs. They do what they can. It's F2P... but I guess that also means Free 2 Whine as well.

    To go into every single class to explain the imbalance would take too long but the imbalances are there and yes mms have issues moreso than any other class. Its not to say mm is the only class I play. I also have a mage, a warrior and a priest. I played bard alot during closed beta and I have experience with the other classes as well. When I complain about balance it not because I want a particular class to "pwn", its because I realise that the game is not properly balanced.

    In terms of one class that can "outbeat" (is that a word) all the other: Edge Assassins. Next in line are Elemental warriors.

    Its not to say mms are pathetic. There are some quality mms out there but as I have said it takes much much more especially in terms of gear/gems/masteries to make a good mm than any other class.

    Specific issues as I would have raised are:

    1) Soul Resolution provides almost no defense at level 70 and up. By this point most players are winged and have huge attacks. The coverage of Soul Resolution is too little. To compare every single other class has a more significant form of defense than a mm e.g. bard shield + heal, priest shield + heal, war bor + high hp, sin stealth etc. Its silly that you use 3 soul bullets and watch your miniscule buble evaporate in 1 or 2 hits whilst a mage can reduce damage as long as they have mp (and by 70 mages have lots of mp, after all its cheap).

    2) No dependable cc. 50% chance (60% if soul on dwarf luck) on sniper soul. Once that fails usually you do not live too long. Every and I repeat every single other class has a very dependable cc skil. Even my mage which has been all three talent paths in fire form has a very dependable transform since it cools so quick. So in addition to its mp shield it can negate all damage by transforming the opponent while building red hand.

    Our other stun works 100% BUT first you must mark a target then cast for 5 seconds. That means it takes 6 seconds to get of our 100% stun but guess what it only last for a whopping 2 seconds.

    Exorcising bullet has a tremendous feature. It disarms opponents. So whats the beef! Disarm only stops other mms and warrior from using their skills. ALL other classes are unaffected by disarm except for a slight (remember I am talking 70+ here) reduction in thier damage. Of course this means they can use their ccs effectively rendering your disarm useless. Of course if you are soul your EB can also silence at a whopping 60% rate. Cool, except it triggers far less often then the 17% freeze on a ice mage! go figure.

    Weakening cloud is great!........Except at level 70 most people have lots of accuracy (due to the unbalanced evasion/accuracy ratio). To get to 400 +evasio requires evasion gear and though mm gear is cheap it means you have to supplement your lack of hp with hp gems. Anyway this isnt developer fault I am just saying running an evasion mm is not a cheap enterprise. Just by the way all the other classes get a far superior version of a the 300sec cooldown uber skill since they simply cannot be damaged while using it e.g. divine uphold on my warrior!

    Burst mms do get a nice evasion boost thought but alas I am not burst.

    There are some other points I could mention and then I could get into other balance issues for examples Blade of Reflection on my warrior being far too powerful (yes somehow it is rumored to be adjusted in CN but not here, which would suggest that things can be done for here specifically unless that was an error.......anyway I will leave that alone) especially at higher levels.

    There is imbalance and I can see it. Its like back in PWI when I was accused of whining about sins and aps. Well look at PWI now. Even the most outspoken aps users are now realising their unbalanced class left them with a comparably empty server (that plus the refusal to fix age old bugs)

    Finally were they to give me job to work o the bugs I can most assure you they would be fixed pronto. Not because I say so but because I know myself. If it was my source of income (and I like o make mine) I would be all over like white on rice.
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I stopped reading when you said elemental warriors outbeat almost any other class
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Anyway clearly my saying anything won't make things go any faster so im out of here. I'll go back to game and avoid pvp like the plague and hope that one day the developers will realise that assassins and vamps are not the only two classes in this game.
    While I agree with you about (dark) vamps and (edge) sins being out of balance by a far shot, your non-stop complaints even in a completely unrelated thread are kind of starting to get tiring, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.

    We get it already. It's not going to make them balance faster. Even if you'd write them this QQ in chinese and sent mail to the devs.
  • Ghundam - Eyrda
    Ghundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    While I agree with you about (dark) vamps and (edge) sins being out of balance by a far shot, your non-stop complaints even in a completely unrelated thread are kind of starting to get tiring, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that.

    We get it already. It's not going to make them balance faster. Even if you'd write them this QQ in chinese and sent mail to the devs.


    Well there, you certainly said it and put me in my place. I won't have to say anything anymore since I'm making you all tired. I'll try as much as possible to stay away from "ya alls" forums. Have a good one.
  • Nyxa - Storm Legion
    Nyxa - Storm Legion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    gave you your own thread since yout discussion kept going after you said you were done, along with the fact that it has nothing to do with the topic that you posted in
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  • Frost_Fang - Nyos
    Frost_Fang - Nyos Posts: 837 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    There is ballance actually... if any player of any class wastes 5k euro on masteries and other junk, i'm pretty sure he'll own whatever class he's playing :3 see ? ...ballance.

    Other then that, I'm a sin, and like u said, we have the potential to well, take people down before they grab their mouse. But you did mention us in front of warriors, along with mentioning BoR. It's funny, cause BoR works so well exactly against assassins.

    There's a devious circle, the way you see it: sins and warrior are op.
    But if you were a warrior, you probably wouldn't even mind sins, and if you were a dunno, mage for example, you may not mind warriors that much after u perma-disable the poor things and watch them struggle to reach you...

    So, basically, different classes own different things. MMs kinda do seem not-the OPest class around, I admit, but aren't the rhand MMs the downfall of entire zergs ? And no, other classes even when rhanded, aren't really what takes down 10 people at once, but MMs, hell that **** hurts. Even when you're actually on their side, but they never heard of "ally protection" after disabling it once by "accident".

    And no, the "unbalance" wont ever be fixed, cause nobody knows how to make any game ballanced. People call games they were good in "ballanced" and the games they sucked at "imbalanced" (yes, they don't use the word Unbalance o,o). So, good luck waiting for that fix of yours.
    Member of "KoS_" cause unless you stand for something, you will fall for anything.
  • techprince
    techprince Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Most of the people kill MM's first for a specific reason only, if they survive, we are dead. That 6 hit attack is really effective and can take opponents in 1 use.

    Now the issue of OP'd classes in general / OP's skills, lets start :p

    1) Assassin : 5-7sec silence every 8-10secs (OP'd) , 2-3sec stun, high amount of slow effect insane critical chance specially from kindred reducing 5% crit dodge (OP'd)

    2) Bard : Insane mana drain (OP'd) , immunity to stun and silence (OP'd), slow effects,

    3) Mage : AOE mana drain disabling the opponents (OP'd), high duration on freeze effect from various talents (OP'd), 6 strike talent with high crit chance.

    4) Marksman : 6 hit attack, AOE attacks , stun/silence removals, high speed buffs, evasion buffs, aoe accuracy reduction, 30sec sleep (seriously?), stuns.

    5) Priest : High mana drain , high damage on some skills (wtf is the damage on frost concentration with % boost from other skills.), sleep at high lvl with very low cd (OP'd)

    6) Protector : Very high amount of stuns, very high duration on stuns (OP'd), healing + immunity skill.

    7) Vampire : Most overpowered class of the game, accuracy reduction, HP reduction, stuns, silence, disarm, slow, interrupt, heals, high resistance drains, high hp drains, ranged class with charge like skill (seriously?),
    FEATS most overpowered talent of the game, kills more people than a player does (AOE skill with high range that stops the movement, dots the players, unstealths the players, adds a stun like effect which only few classes can remove.)

    8) Warrior : Crit doge reduction on charge, very high damage, stuns, disarm, accuracy reduction, evasion reduction, unstealthing roars, defense reduction, absorbs.
    Blade of Reflection (OP'd low cd for one talent tree).

    There you go, few points from my perspective of OPness among all classes.
    As one can see, every class has something OP'd except for vampire. But the skills are specific to one talent tree, the players from other talent tree's suffers the most. They will need serious amount of timing and better gameplay+gear to compete with these tree's, no easy mode for them.

    A suggetion to devs reading (if any) : There shouldn't be any skill that hits for 6 times, limit it to 4 maximum.
  • PurpleDragon - Eyrda
    PurpleDragon - Eyrda Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    However agreed the game needs a re-balance there a some classes skill too OPed. Till the point of annoying.
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    Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it is to the one who endures that the FINAL Victory comes.
  • RudeBarb - Storm Legion
    RudeBarb - Storm Legion Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    HEY ! Prots hit like they use a wet spaggetti noodle,, Giant hammer, my giant Pastrami, wet noodle,, OH ya they are TANKS, not supposed to hit hard, sposta take hits

    Warriors, middle of the road what-evers, either Glass cannons or prot wanna-bes..

    MMs, Wht the heck role are you supposed to play anyway? Back up support I think,, your NOT a tank, NOT a warrior, No magic,, AoE as god as a Mage or better ,, wth !!!

    Vamps? OMG! OP !! HP leech, self heals, Curses, Hits harder then a warrior, can take damage 1vs1 better then a prot, etc etc etc ,,,,

    Priest? well, we all know unless a priest has 5 D for AH they are useless,, not really but still,, cant tank, cant really hit, cant really,, better hide behind the dwarf, who hides behind the warrior , who hides bhind the Prot who just cleans up if the vamp leaves anything behind ...

    Sins, well what can we say,,, the best boss killer got NERFED,,,,,,,,,,and didnt even get a free option to reskill with free compass ,,,

    Mages,, well, well,, Squishy,, marxhmallow, chocolate bits and bites,,, AoE machine,, stock up on those mana pots , your gona need them ,, No self heal VAMP has it, paralize?? OMG every game Ive played a mage in the Mage has a PARALIZE spell, not a stun, not a sleep a PARALIZE!!! Mages what are ya good for, absolutely nuthin !! I luv my Mage!!! He is da get da souls for da Tamer skill specialist!!! I luv my Mage ,,, RUN!! FOREST! RUN !! You AoE,d and pulled aggro from everyone now your gonna die!!! :eek: :rolleyes:


    Yes there are some imbalances,, BUT if you tweek one, (( IE: Venom Sins )) you make some others stronger or weaker

    No way you can tweek Dwarfs without tweeking Mages, WC already calls for Burst MM BEFORE a mage

    Can everything be fixed with Mastery/resistance / and the other thingy now?? Who knows,,

    But if you tweek one, everyother one will be pizzed off
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    You people should stop talking about PvE balance because nobody cares of that, lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Julia_VII - Storm Legion
    Julia_VII - Storm Legion Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I had to take a deep breath and LOL when I saw "warriors are overpowered".


    Hahahahahaha oh wow, that was a good joke.

    Oh wait, you were serious. Let me laugh harder.
  • BiGGiB - Eyrda
    BiGGiB - Eyrda Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Dont Have Tanker, Protector Is Tanker O Warrior Tanker Or Assassin Evasion Tanker? Any Class Tanker? Lol
  • rayminh
    rayminh Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    PvE tank?
    I have seen all classes that tank koubo bear: prot, war, sin, vamp, priest, bard mage and MM
    PvP ?
    MM is one of the most fearsome class for any eva build to deal with, with a decent damage and average acc, an MM can shoot thro shield of water bard and divine priest, mark and burst down any vamp thro the wall, etc etc...
    all you need to do in pvp is to find a good team to go with (dont even consider going w/o a healer) and know how to move around to get wrath.
  • RudeBarb - Storm Legion
    RudeBarb - Storm Legion Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    You people should stop talking about PvE balance because nobody cares of that, lol

    You cant have one OR the other ,,, I dont know of many SPECIFICALLY PvP skills,, so what do you tweek for PvP that doesnt affect PvE ??

    Do we add People Specific tweeks to existing skills?
    Who gets what tweek?
    Who gets a Nerf ?
    What do we Nerf?
    What do we tweek ?

    Id like my Mage skills to have a 50% reduction in casting time in Areana,, that would be nice.. I might actually cast a skill before a warrior, vamp or sin is on top of me interupting my cast,,

    Ya! Id like my Mage skills to NOT get interupted by every bloody else casting ,, Ya thats the ticket

    well we are at it, Id like my Mage to get a HEAL, WTH does a VAMP have to with healing anyway?? They are a Friggin VAMPIRE !!! Not a Priest or a Bard !

    And I want my Mage to have a 5 sec PARALIZE skill that cant be interupted too!!!!
  • Aishleen - Eyrda
    Aishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    You cant have one OR the other ,,, I dont know of many SPECIFICALLY PvP skills,, so what do you tweek for PvP that doesnt affect PvE ??
    Actually there's a lot of skills only useful in PvP and useless in PvE, and some are useless in PvP like knockbacks.

    But silences, are totally useless in PvE, doesn't mean they don't **** in PvP for example. Also stuns / ice cubes and other CCs, are pretty bad in PvE since bosses are immune, yet deadly in PvP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Crum - Eyrda
    Crum - Eyrda Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    HEY ! Prots hit like they use a wet spaggetti noodle,, Giant hammer, my giant Pastrami, wet noodle,, OH ya they are TANKS, not supposed to hit hard, sposta take hits

    Warriors, middle of the road what-evers, either Glass cannons or prot wanna-bes..

    MMs, Wht the heck role are you supposed to play anyway? Back up support I think,, your NOT a tank, NOT a warrior, No magic,, AoE as god as a Mage or better ,, wth !!!

    Vamps? OMG! OP !! HP leech, self heals, Curses, Hits harder then a warrior, can take damage 1vs1 better then a prot, etc etc etc ,,,,

    Priest? well, we all know unless a priest has 5 D for AH they are useless,, not really but still,, cant tank, cant really hit, cant really,, better hide behind the dwarf, who hides behind the warrior , who hides bhind the Prot who just cleans up if the vamp leaves anything behind ...

    Sins, well what can we say,,, the best boss killer got NERFED,,,,,,,,,,and didnt even get a free option to reskill with free compass ,,,

    Mages,, well, well,, Squishy,, marxhmallow, chocolate bits and bites,,, AoE machine,, stock up on those mana pots , your gona need them ,, No self heal VAMP has it, paralize?? OMG every game Ive played a mage in the Mage has a PARALIZE spell, not a stun, not a sleep a PARALIZE!!! Mages what are ya good for, absolutely nuthin !! I luv my Mage!!! He is da get da souls for da Tamer skill specialist!!! I luv my Mage ,,, RUN!! FOREST! RUN !! You AoE,d and pulled aggro from everyone now your gonna die!!! :eek: :rolleyes:


    Yes there are some imbalances,, BUT if you tweek one, (( IE: Venom Sins )) you make some others stronger or weaker

    No way you can tweek Dwarfs without tweeking Mages, WC already calls for Burst MM BEFORE a mage

    Can everything be fixed with Mastery/resistance / and the other thingy now?? Who knows,,

    But if you tweek one, everyother one will be pizzed off

    Your post makes my eyes bleed, my head hurt, and my IQ drop - all at the same time. Felt the need to point that out.

    @the OP: roll an arena alt or quit like every other mm on the server. There's a good reason why you can't name 5 competitive 80+ MMs on Eyrda. Not gonna change a thing by posting here though, especially since 90% of the forum goers are PvE players and the few mms that do come here are mostly satisfied with burning mobs to a crisp.

    Yes, we're hands down the worst pvp class endgame. Suck it up and move on. *shrug*
  • RudeBarb - Storm Legion
    RudeBarb - Storm Legion Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Your post makes my eyes bleed, my head hurt, and my IQ drop - all at the same time. Felt the need to point that out.

    @the OP: roll an arena alt or quit like every other mm on the server. There's a good reason why you can't name 5 competitive 80+ MMs on Eyrda. Not gonna change a thing by posting here though, especially since 90% of the forum goers are PvE players and the few mms that do come here are mostly satisfied with burning mobs to a crisp.

    Yes, we're hands down the worst pvp class endgame. Suck it up and move on. *shrug*


    you went off sideways ,,, I have a Burst MM,, matter of fact I have TWO,, I use the precission as an Elite killer and the Burst as a soul catcher, I dont PvP much at all matter of fact first 3/3 and 6/6 were this week actually.

    I have a 72 Ice mage, was fire till 65( tamer 3 + 75% ) changed to ICE till 75 and Ill change it back to Fire again( already getting gear for it)

    I do have 2 full Acc I each class (( plus a third for banking )) 1 ACC is Humans and other is Kins, cept for the Dwarf and Stone which had no choice now did they, all 50 +, som 60+
    I guess If I would have just lvld my mage it would be maxed, with my Inferno Vamp right behind it (( Love my VAMP ,, solos WBs ! )) BUT my Priest well,, Human solod FH WBs at 40( gotta love Pumpkin Monster they are OP ) at lvl 50 cant get Khomen Assistant yet, but Im going to SOLO it Guess I need a few gems in Gear

    I dont PK, PvP hence im on STORM!! thats shoulda been your first clue, I play for fun, not to brag I can kill 70 with my 50 cause I CS and its loaded with lvl IV gems and 80 Mastery with full resists

    Oh well, I am happy your eye bleed when you read my posts, now use your brain and re-read them with a littel salt and the fact they are very sarcastic and tell me what we tweek? What do we chhange on MMs to make then better PvPs without makeing them OP over Mages or total OP over priests? What do we change on Mages so WC goes LFM FP want Inferno Mage ? Cause I do see LFM WP burst MM required and a few more
  • asd29
    asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    We are probably the worst Arena class honestly. Though my experiences in rift have been good and like it or not that is pvp. But even then it's not because we have any improved survivability or cc there it's just we're hard to find in a mass of bodies. So IMO not in every form of pvp are we terrible. So idk, we do need more viable disable skills because we have 0 reliable disable skills or at least soul resolution needs to be improved to being somewhat useable - a shield absorbing 2-3k damage is well a joke. Nearly everything almost requires Hunters Mark as a prerequisite to stun. Our range is quite easily negated so the cast time to cast hunter's mark+cast time of skill (6 secs in optimal conditions) sees us stunned, silenced and interrupted quite easily. Sins, Warriors negate range quite easily and effectively.

    We're talking a pure PVP perspective here, so talk of mages being squishy are all well and good, but they have survivability skill as a ranged class that offer them solid survivability in pvp in arena particularly. Transform, iceblocks etc. PVP is about survivability for mm it's not about hitting hard. You have redhand and your noodle will do serious damage. All this talk about bosses, pulling aggro is moot becuase it simply does not matter in arena or open world pvp

    Also so many misnomers about mm skills posted here.
    -Also Burst of Rage is not a 6 hit Aoe as some think it is. It is a 6 hit single target attack. There is no 6 hit aoe.
    -That 30 sec is sleep mentioned also requires a skill that takes 5 secs to cast and is only available to one tree. If you don't find someone casting a skill that takes 5 secs then you're seriously lacking in awareness and deserve to be slept for 30 secs.
    -AoE accuracy reduction = 5 min cd. So you may use it in one round of arena but it is highly unlikey you'll get a second chance in a round and probably not even the 3rd round. We also have no silence removals. Slows and ensnares - yes, but silences no. We can only badge out of it.
    -As stated previously most stuns require 2 skills to be used. Our only guaranteed stun is a combination of a curse skill+ the 5 sec cast skill. For a 2 sec stun? Really?

    But then again you do rift and burst mm are absolutely lethal in there. So I'm not sure what the right answer is
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • asfwersssf
    asfwersssf Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Originally Posted by RudeBarb - Storm Legion View Post
    HEY ! Prots hit like they use a wet spaggetti noodle,, Giant hammer, my giant Pastrami, wet noodle,, OH ya they are TANKS, not supposed to hit hard, sposta take hits

    I don't really care about pvp but there is some real fuzzy math when it comes to protector percent attack and percent defense calculations but I am so happy the programmers can do the additions and subtractions. :D. Maybe not many people play protectors so not many people to complain. My analysis posted previously elsewhere. copy and paste.

    Blessing of the Stonemen: increase your defense by 1% and reduce incoming damage by 1% for 30 minutes. It's bugged because it doesn't do the calculation on the defense displayed in status screen. I have 1200+ defense and gain only 6 defense with that skill. I gain 6 defense so it's assuming I have 600 defense (6/.01).

    Rage of Mind: increase the duration of mental focus by 60 seconds. Each stack of fury increase your attack by .2%.

    Extending mental focus by 60 seconds is fine but the second part the attack calculation is wrong. After gaining 10 stacks of fury my attack only increase by 36 despite me having 2700+ min attack. The calculation here is based off a fixed 1800 attack (36/.02).

    Do you see a pattern? Whenever a formula calls for percent attack calculation 1800 is used. Whenever a formula calls for percent defense calculation 600 is used no matter what is displayed in the status screen. This would mean a lot of the protector skills are miscalculated--any skills that calls for percent attack calculation...force of fury, upheaval, entrench, Retaliation aura, force of the land, etc. are bugged and easy to fix.


    I recalculated with no items on. My attack displayed in the status screen was 613 and my defense 286.

    Rage of the mind:increase the duration of mental focus by 60 seconds. Each stack of fury increase your attack by .2%.

    After casting mental focus and mass taunt to get the soulweb spiders to attack me, and gaining 10 stacks of fury, my attack went up to 625. Which is an increase of 12 (625-613). This is correct. It's just rounding. But wear some items and the calculation is all wrong. No where in the description it says only works when wearing no items.

    Just so you know warrior's frenzy stance does not work like this. It uses the attack displayed in the status screen(with items equipped). Here's the description(displayed under the portrait of my character) on my newbie ele warrior frenzy stance after one stack of frenzy stance--increase your attack by .6%+50. My min attack was 630 and went up to 684. [(630*1.006)+50 =683.78]. Which is correct. This means it stacks even on top of the warriors attack increasing passive, power of wildness.

    Force of Fury: deals 130% of your attack +****. What does 130% of your attack mean? Is it your attack naked, or with all items equipped including gems, or something else?

    Can someone test out the glittering necklace and ring set if you have it?



    Blessing of the Stonemen: increase your defense by 1% and reduce incoming damage by 1% for 30 minutes.

    Completely naked and with no buffs my defense was 286. Keep in mind that I have level 5 tenacious armor( 30 increase in def). So if I want to undo tenacious armor(286-30).

    After casting blessings of the stonemen my defense went up to 288. (286*.01)=2.86

    Now lets undo tenacious armor 286-30=256. 256*.01=2.56.

    If this skill doesn't take into account the items I am wearing how come I gain 6 def when I have 1200+ def. It should be 2 no matter how much defense increasing items I am wearing.
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    It is items but it's only the base values, the ones that increase as you refine the gear (white stats). Not additional adds or gems or pet buffs or anything.
  • PugnusDei - Storm Legion
    PugnusDei - Storm Legion Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    If we assume that the player base collectively has a fair handle on the qualities of each class, then we can get useful statistics from the number of forum threads in the class forums. That is, more popular classes will have more threads, less popular classes will have fewer threads. Popularity can be correlated to class effectiveness in both PvP and PvE, as the forum covers players in both areas. It also covers all servers. So what do we see as of 2PM CST on January 20th, 2012 -- where the game has been in open release for a little less than a year?

    By priority order of popularity based on thread count, from highest to lowest:
    569: Vampire
    556: Bard
    535: Mage
    527: Assassin
    485: Warrior
    421: Priest
    410: Protector
    318: Marksman

    Now one can argue about relative popularity between classes with a near number of threads. What is very clear however is that Marksman is far and away the LEAST popular class -- no other way to look at it. Not even close.

    So the argument that there is a problem with the MM class is I think born out by the statistics of player popularity.

    As for fixing it....that can be argued at length. My suggestion for a MM fix that would be the least intrusive into the game mechanics, and would have nominal impact on arena fights, would be simply to increase the MM single target range. It really should be the longest ranged class anyway. By doing so it would be viable in PvE for boss fights (including all world bosses) because it would be outside of AoE range for all bosses. That change would probably be the easiest to code and would not change any other factor. By placing the MM outside of boss AoE range suddenly the ultra squishness would be irrelevant. And by limiting the range increase to single target skills it would not appreciably increase the MM threat in PvP so it would limit the balance correction there.

    However....we know the Chinese Devs hate the dwarf class for some reason. They got rid of the pedo laugh sound effect on the idle skill but it still deep throats bananas like a perverted chimp and wipes snot on its beard -- no way is that accidental. So the fact that the MM is nerfed the way it is, is unlikely to be accidental either.
  • RudeBarb - Storm Legion
    RudeBarb - Storm Legion Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    If we assume that the player base collectively has a fair handle on the qualities of each class, then we can get useful statistics from the number of forum threads in the class forums. That is, more popular classes will have more threads, less popular classes will have fewer threads. Popularity can be correlated to class effectiveness in both PvP and PvE, as the forum covers players in both areas. It also covers all servers. So what do we see as of 2PM CST on January 20th, 2012 -- where the game has been in open release for a little less than a year?

    By priority order of popularity based on thread count, from highest to lowest:
    569: Vampire
    556: Bard
    535: Mage
    527: Assassin
    485: Warrior
    421: Priest
    410: Protector
    318: Marksman

    Now one can argue about relative popularity between classes with a near number of threads. What is very clear however is that Marksman is far and away the LEAST popular class -- no other way to look at it. Not even close.

    So the argument that there is a problem with the MM class is I think born out by the statistics of player popularity.

    As for fixing it....that can be argued at length. My suggestion for a MM fix that would be the least intrusive into the game mechanics, and would have nominal impact on arena fights, would be simply to increase the MM single target range. It really should be the longest ranged class anyway. By doing so it would be viable in PvE for boss fights (including all world bosses) because it would be outside of AoE range for all bosses. That change would probably be the easiest to code and would not change any other factor. By placing the MM outside of boss AoE range suddenly the ultra squishness would be irrelevant. And by limiting the range increase to single target skills it would not appreciably increase the MM threat in PvP so it would limit the balance correction there.

    However....we know the Chinese Devs hate the dwarf class for some reason. They got rid of the pedo laugh sound effect on the idle skill but it still deep throats bananas like a perverted chimp and wipes snot on its beard -- no way is that accidental. So the fact that the MM is nerfed the way it is, is unlikely to be accidental either.

    I would put to you that the fact MM are DWARFs might be a big fact in the lack of MM population!

    I would put to you the IF MM class was offered to Human and Elf as an ARCHER you would see Lots of Archers, hence MM posts would be as high as if not higher then middle of the road
    (( YES, there are ELF ARCHERS running around are there not ))

    I would also put to you that if the Prot weapon was other then a Giant hammer, there would be more Prots

    I would also put it to you that Vamp weapon, Giant cross on the back, is one of the saddest weapon choices Ive seen for a class in a lot of years

    I would also put it to you that if Mages had a self heal like MOST MMs there would be a heck of a lot more Mages

    So what do we tweek ??

    come on people, you all have your thoughts,, WHAT??

    Suxz that a mage starts to cast and a Vamp goes Pooft 500 ft, interupts, silences, stuns and kills him inside of 3 seconds does it not?
    But MAN, on the VAMP side its So COOL to do it !!!
  • Crum - Eyrda
    Crum - Eyrda Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I would put to you that the fact MM are DWARFs might be a big fact in the lack of MM population!

    Lol? If there's one thing we DO have - it's swag. And lots of it.
    I would put to you the IF MM class was offered to Human and Elf as an ARCHER you would see Lots of Archers, hence MM posts would be as high as if not higher then middle of the road
    (( YES, there are ELF ARCHERS running around are there not ))

    Are you for real? No, there still wouldn't be any mms because they'd still be a nerfed class. There are also dwarf prots running around FH, I fail to see your point.
    I would also put to you that if the Prot weapon was other then a Giant hammer, there would be more Prots

    Um, no. See above.
    I would also put it to you that Vamp weapon, Giant cross on the back, is one of the saddest weapon choices Ive seen for a class in a lot of years

    Yet it's the reason why every other noob that starts the game picks a vamp :rolleyes:
    I would also put it to you that if Mages had a self heal like MOST MMs there would be a heck of a lot more Mages

    Lol? If you want to count the burst mm "heal" (which is harder to set up than.. I dont know something that's next to impossible to set up), mages have a much stronger, much easier to use heal as well.
    So what do we tweek ??

    In your case, I'd start with a lobotomy and work my way from there.
    come on people, you all have your thoughts,, WHAT??

    sawp??
  • noxshadow1
    noxshadow1 Posts: 184 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    If we assume that the player base collectively has a fair handle on the qualities of each class, then we can get useful statistics from the number of forum threads in the class forums. That is, more popular classes will have more threads, less popular classes will have fewer threads. Popularity can be correlated to class effectiveness in both PvP and PvE, as the forum covers players in both areas. It also covers all servers. So what do we see as of 2PM CST on January 20th, 2012 -- where the game has been in open release for a little less than a year?

    By priority order of popularity based on thread count, from highest to lowest:
    569: Vampire
    556: Bard
    535: Mage
    527: Assassin
    485: Warrior
    421: Priest
    410: Protector
    318: Marksman

    Now one can argue about relative popularity between classes with a near number of threads. What is very clear however is that Marksman is far and away the LEAST popular class -- no other way to look at it. Not even close.

    So the argument that there is a problem with the MM class is I think born out by the statistics of player popularity.


    There's only one problem with your "statistics" there. You're basing popularity off the number of threads. You don't take into account how many of those threads are non-sense threads...or how many of those threads are discussion threads amongst a few active players with others interjecting as they see fit.

    I know personally the reason the Bard Forums are so active isn't from people playing bards...since as we've all seen there was a boom of new bard players that tapered down rather quickly. The reason there are so many threads is due to the fact the Bard Community actually enjoy sharing opinion about various builds, playstyles and theories. Call it "Taking the Game Too Seriously"...but we have quite a few creative minds in that part of the forum that help keep us informed of different combinations.

    I've visited the other sub-forums for the classes...and frankly I don't see nearly as many people talking about the smaller details of playing the class. I see complaining and whining about how this class is better than that class. Seriously...go to the Bard Forum and look at our front page. The only vs. thread you'll find is against a Lightning Mage...not because we think they're more powerful...but because the OP of THAT thread wanted advice on a Bard spell. Instead of blaming others for our failures...you'll find more often than not that the Bard Forum is filled with people willing to share ideas.

    Think about that next time you try to pull "statistics" out of thin air...
  • Trogotha - Storm Legion
    Trogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    @the OP: roll an arena alt or quit like every other mm on the server. There's a good reason why you can't name 5 competitive 80+ MMs on Eyrda. Not gonna change a thing by posting here though, especially since 90% of the forum goers are PvE players and the few mms that do come here are mostly satisfied with burning mobs to a crisp.

    Yes, we're hands down the worst pvp class endgame. Suck it up and move on. *shrug*

    Have to agree with the sentiment towards pvp from my fellow mm unfortunately.

    The only thing I can say about Burst being the most common PVE build is that it's similar to Priests always needing to be Divine builds. It's what we're expected to do since we're the only other AoE damage capable class of the game. Not saying a Prec or Soul would have trouble finding a pt, but that isn't what we're known for.
    Dear PWE Staff: I can haz avatar nao plox? :D
    For SCIENCE (and the LULZ)!