Aegis Analysis: Ask Archeden

Archeden - Storm Legion
Archeden - Storm Legion Posts: 17 Arc User
edited May 2012 in Warrior Discussion
I've seen countless questions regarding the Aegis build and I'd simply like to establish this thread for the soul purpose, its namesake really, of answering those questions, one at a time.
No, I'm not the be-all come-all of warriors, I'm not level 80 yet. But I will gladly offer my input and suggestions on any concern you may have. I intend to get us all performing at least as well as I am, and I need only say that I'm being favored over 2 in every 3 prots in my bracket as a tank.

Feel free to ask away, I require no format but only request you keep the questions simple. Once again, I'm not claiming to be an expert of any degree, but I'm only offering what help I may give.
Post edited by Archeden - Storm Legion on
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Comments

  • raginhomosapien
    raginhomosapien Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    my 75 elemental has 1065 defense with iron bone, and 2.936 k attack with brute force, warsong of rampage, and max frenzy

    i have 24.423 k hp without blessing of human

    tanking is no problem at all for me at any time

    the only time I ever use combat stance is when the healing can't keep up with the damage
  • alhiet
    alhiet Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    @above

    That's pretty cool. I always thought elems and phantoms were just out of an Aegis' league in terms of dps. However, it's seems certain elems is comparable to a certain Aegis warrs (assuming all our numbers are correct)

    At 75, I had roughly 1100+ def and 2700+ something atk unbuffed. Probably around 1200 def and 2800 atk with buffs, not sure. Atk gems and warded gear refined to lvl 3. Spent less than 50g in all for it, nothing special.

    I would say that isn't a far cry from your build. Obviously at bit more on the def side on my guy but you can see what I mean. Perhaps, the most noticeable difference between trees is just the talents and not the dmg output in some circumstances?

    I kinda always accepted the fact that I suck at dps. But then again, I never did inquire what an elem's atk is and I never did notice that my attack was significantly lower than most of the dmg that I see while in a party. Also, when I tried out elem my atk rose by a forgettable amount but I thought that was just cause I suck as an elem. Maybe I should reconsider? Lol, either way, Aegis is awesome.

    Have a good one.
  • raginhomosapien
    raginhomosapien Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    well. I get another 200 attack from my elemental dragon power, putting me at 3155 attack, i'm using a lvl 65 mighty wise sword, and my only level 3 gems are a level 3 rage and level 3 eagle on that sword

    I have solars on everything except for sword. bloods on everything else except shatter shards(glove and shoulder) and goldsparks(helmet) . all level 2 gems.

    as u can see, I go elemental tree, and specialize in defense gear, which is what I've been doing the whole time for my character, to great effect

    the thing about elemental is the crit chance , bonus attack, and lower cool downs

    the cool downs and attack bonuses from warsong of rampage and dragon power scale greatly through out the game
  • alhiet
    alhiet Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Ah, I that makes sense. I was getting scared why our builds were so similar. We mirror each other a lot. Check this out lol.

    I too only had a lvl 3 solar and a lvl 3 azure on my sword (we love lightsabers, duh) and lvl 1s in the gear. I also get additional def from talents as well as focus on proc support skills with my talents. My warsong of def, dragon blood, and combat stance scale with my def and hp as I lvl.

    I can't say I focused on upping atk. I think I did pretty well in terms of dps considering that. Maybe I'd make a decent competitor if only I focused on atk like how you focused on def. Who knows? Stranger things have happened lol.
  • Archeden - Storm Legion
    Archeden - Storm Legion Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Just so you're aware, this thread is about AEGIS wars, not ELE. fyi, I'm 10 levels lower with 200 more def and about 8k less health, ijs. Never get on a pedestal thinking you can go outside of your predetermined role in a party. YES Ele can offtank to a degree, but ONLY in a half-way decent group. If you want to tank for real, aegis is the only clear way to go. I don't have a single bloodstone gemmed btw, if you're wondering about the health. Wait, I have ONE bloodstone I gemmed. everything else is solarflare/mistshroud.

    Anywho, take the ele discussion to an ele thread please, my intent for this thread was to set those wanting to go aegis in the right direction.
  • jhereg4250
    jhereg4250 Posts: 485 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Right now I'm debating whether or not I should invest in Blood Will. Does Bloodsoak's damage decent enough at higher levels to make these points worth it?
  • Julia_VII - Storm Legion
    Julia_VII - Storm Legion Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    >tanking
    >aegis

    you sir are funny. aegis warriors can try, but will never be as efficient tanking as a protector. they just dont have enough crowd control.

    pointless tree
  • Archeden - Storm Legion
    Archeden - Storm Legion Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    jhereg4250 wrote: »
    Right now I'm debating whether or not I should invest in Blood Will. Does Bloodsoak's damage decent enough at higher levels to make these points worth it?

    I'm running 2/2 Blood Will right now and I feel that it's a worth-while investment. The extra threat from Bloodsoak every 45 seconds is a nice supplement, and oddly enough it keeps healers happy.

    As for you, Julia, understand this isn't a thread for bashing ideologies. Furthermore, I'll GLADLY out-tank any prot on our server. Gtfo, this thread is about HOW to play an Aegis war, not ele fanatics saying Aegis sucks. Play a tree before ya bash it..and ya know, it may be your preference to amount to nothing more than dps, but I for one, thoroughly enjoy tanking.
  • Yin - Eyrda
    Yin - Eyrda Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    my 75 elemental has 1065 defense with iron bone, and 2.936 k attack with brute force, warsong of rampage, and max frenzy

    i have 24.423 k hp without blessing of human

    tanking is no problem at all for me at any time

    the only time I ever use combat stance is when the healing can't keep up with the damage

    Your hp and attack are both way too low. You should have 4200 atk with brute force, and the bare minimum hp is 25000 - though ideally you want no less than 30k.

    Your def is way too high. Def is useless. Utterly. Useless.
    Combat stance is also useless unless you're aegis (which is the useless spec).

    Anyways, aegis is completely trash in pvp, def is useless in pvp. the -6% damage is not bad but it's still **** considering you lose like 20% dps by not being a better tree.
    At 75 the -300 mastery skill does reduce 30% damage, but it's not worth the craptastic dps you trade off. And ele/blood are perfectly viable single-target tanks as you have the highest hp in the game.
  • Yin - Eyrda
    Yin - Eyrda Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    >tanking
    >aegis

    you sir are funny. aegis warriors can try, but will never be as efficient tanking as a protector. they just dont have enough crowd control.

    pointless tree

    This.

    All 3 warrior trees tank just the same on a single target and none can tank crowds.
    But aegis has 20-30% less dps than blood/ele and no good skills at all besides the -300 mastery one.
  • zazzles
    zazzles Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    as far as i noticed yes aegis are **** for pvp but not every server is pvp only >.< there is carebears to ^-^ and switching from ele to aegis the only differance i noticed is 1800 attack for my aegis war can old aggro better than when i was running 2800 attack as ele =/
  • Ginius - Illyfue
    Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    zazzles wrote: »
    as far as i noticed yes aegis are **** for pvp but not every server is pvp only >.< there is carebears to ^-^ and switching from ele to aegis the only differance i noticed is 1800 attack for my aegis war can old aggro better than when i was running 2800 attack as ele =/

    This is because aegis got skills to generate threat/aggro while hitting, you still do **** damages and it will take way more times for you to kill mobs/boss than when you were elemental.

    Did you at least read the descriptions of your skills as aegis?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Signature by Baby.
    Level 90 since august 2014

    - Elemental Warrior 90
    - Ice Mage 90
    - Blood Raider 87
    - Divine Priest 85
    - Water Bard 83
    - Precision MM 80
    - Demon? I hope soon xD
  • zazzles
    zazzles Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    This is because aegis got skills to generate threat/aggro while hitting, you still do **** damages and it will take way more times for you to kill mobs/boss than when you were elemental.

    Did you at least read the descriptions of your skills as aegis?




    i forgot to quote it, i was referring to the people saying " i have 3k attack and i tank fine" it was stating the point that aegis is infact the tank spec >.> if i wanted to tank with low defense id spare myself the ele endgame aoe and throw 8 points in aegis tree to get treat bonus on high attack with ele tree
  • Ginius - Illyfue
    Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    zazzles wrote: »
    i forgot to quote it, i was referring to the people saying " i have 3k attack and i tank fine" it was stating the point that aegis is infact the tank spec >.> if i wanted to tank with low defense id spare myself the ele endgame aoe and throw 8 points in aegis tree to get treat bonus on high attack with ele tree

    Ele end game aoe cost 1 talent, you can't compare 1 talent vs 8 talents point, and if you refer to bloodsoak, the aoe and def debuff is worth way more than the threat bonus.
    If I had 7 points more to use, I would better use them to get the mastery buff from roar in the phantom tree (since I already have 2 points in charge)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Signature by Baby.
    Level 90 since august 2014

    - Elemental Warrior 90
    - Ice Mage 90
    - Blood Raider 87
    - Divine Priest 85
    - Water Bard 83
    - Precision MM 80
    - Demon? I hope soon xD
  • DeltaTroop - Storm Legion
    DeltaTroop - Storm Legion Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    If I had 7 points more to use, I would better use them to get the mastery buff from roar in the phantom tree (since I already have 2 points in charge)

    Min range reduction right? I'm only 76 and I still haven't figured out what I'm gonna do with my last 4 points yet. Been looking at bleeding touch, swift frenzy, rage of war(sounds cool, not sure how useful), and the assault talents in bloodlust
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Archeden - Storm Legion
    Archeden - Storm Legion Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Pretty sure the first time I've EVER lost aggro was last night to a 78 mage with wings. I'm a 67 aegis with low 60s gear, refined to 6 all pieces. To those bashing aegis. Get your ele rumps out of my thread and PLAY aegis BEFORE you talk about it.

    So you prefer what you play? big whoop, aegis is FAR more sturdy with a lot more threat..more than twice as much, actually.
  • Yin - Eyrda
    Yin - Eyrda Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    So you prefer what you play? big whoop, aegis is FAR more sturdy with a lot more threat..more than twice as much, actually.

    I played aegis for a long time and no it's not more sturdy unless you spam evasion - in which case you'll have such low hp you get 3 shot by anyone that can hit you.

    Aegis's damage is so much lower - and damage scales way better in pvp - that you'll just get pwned cause you're too slow and can't cut through heals or pots.

    Even in pve dps is more important - this game's instances take way too long.
  • alhiet
    alhiet Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Yo Arch,

    You sure blood will is worth a whopping 2 talent points? Even with a full blood will, blood soak would still do more damage to me than a horde of trash mobs. That's counter productive if you're goal is take no dmg from enemies but also intentionally hurt yourself for a hefty 600 dmg.

    Personally, I'd rather keep those points in somthing like lightning wings for that awesome 20% atk debuff.

    I can see how blood soak might keep mobs off of priest but I find 70+ priests are smarter than to get agro in the first place. I'm all for helping out the priest as a tank of course but blood soak is still laughable I think. Maybe if blood will had a 100% reduction and if it was affected by contempt, I MIGHT consider it.
  • Fheye - Storm Legion
    Fheye - Storm Legion Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    It is just plain 'shocking' how these Ele Crusaders cannot leave well enough alone.

    You guys do know that you've made your points often enough that we know them. All of them. You also seem to be about as dense can be because at this point it should be rather obvious that we have no interest in them. If I want to respec, I'll respec. Right now, I'm enjoying being a main boss tank for my guild (teaming with prots for adds) and am more interested in discussing how to get better at it with my fellow aegis warriors than listening to the same old tired arguments from people who are incapable of understanding that this game has different trees for a reason.

    And before you try to argue with me, read the post again. Don't waste our time. I've seen and read all the arguments, and have no interest in seeing them spammed again.
  • zazzles
    zazzles Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    im actually a little curious, i havnt exactly got lightning wings yet and without a prot im curious if lightning wings holds aggro with the threat boost, being as there is aoe classes in group already.. =/
  • Yin - Eyrda
    Yin - Eyrda Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    zazzles wrote: »
    im actually a little curious, i havnt exactly got lightning wings yet and without a prot im curious if lightning wings holds aggro with the threat boost, being as there is aoe classes in group already.. =/

    LW isn't going to hold aggro. not one bit. not even if it was on a 10 sec cooldown.

    if you want to aggro more than 1-2 mobs, roll a mage, mm, or prot. not a failgis.
  • zazzles
    zazzles Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    everyones so hostile >.<
  • DeltaTroop - Storm Legion
    DeltaTroop - Storm Legion Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    zazzles wrote: »
    everyones so hostile >.<

    I dunno why everyone hates on Aegis so much, sure I'd never want to be one, but I see no reason to put down people who want to do something different.

    And despite what the other guy up there said, any attack will help you keep aggro, so as an aoe, especially with the threat increase, it will help you keep aggro on groups especially if you hit them 1st. However with its long cooldown it certainly won't hold on to aggro.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • abbygailz
    abbygailz Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I dunno why everyone hates on Aegis so much, sure I'd never want to be one, but I see no reason to put down people who want to do something different.

    And despite what the other guy up there said, any attack will help you keep aggro, so as an aoe, especially with the threat increase, it will help you keep aggro on groups especially if you hit them 1st. However with its long cooldown it certainly won't hold on to aggro.

    Thanks ^-^
  • Yin - Eyrda
    Yin - Eyrda Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I dunno why everyone hates on Aegis so much, sure I'd never want to be one, but I see no reason to put down people who want to do something different.

    I've tried it (from 69-75 or so?), and it's not very viable.
    Defense does nothing in pvp, and wrath scales your DAMAGE heavily - something aegis doesn't have.

    People hate on aegis because it's a low tier, waste of character talent tree.
  • raginhomosapien
    raginhomosapien Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Just so you're aware, this thread is about AEGIS wars, not ELE. fyi, I'm 10 levels lower with 200 more def and about 8k less health, ijs. Never get on a pedestal thinking you can go outside of your predetermined role in a party. YES Ele can offtank to a degree, but ONLY in a half-way decent group. If you want to tank for real, aegis is the only clear way to go. I don't have a single bloodstone gemmed btw, if you're wondering about the health. Wait, I have ONE bloodstone I gemmed. everything else is solarflare/mistshroud.

    Anywho, take the ele discussion to an ele thread please, my intent for this thread was to set those wanting to go aegis in the right direction.

    I've solo tanked every instance in the game so far. Thank you. I do it better because my damage actually matters.

    You have 200 more defense than me because that's how much more defense an aegis gets. Completely useless.
  • raginhomosapien
    raginhomosapien Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    zazzles wrote: »
    i forgot to quote it, i was referring to the people saying " i have 3k attack and i tank fine" it was stating the point that aegis is infact the tank spec >.> if i wanted to tank with low defense id spare myself the ele endgame aoe and throw 8 points in aegis tree to get treat bonus on high attack with ele tree

    was actually thinking about the option of 8-11 points into aegis since the slash storm spell is kind of a joke.

    but how is 1k defense low? I'm not even nearly fully gemmed out and have little to no problem tanking patrick and kluer.

    The problem is that all of the elemental warriors stack attack instead of defense and then they don't think that elemental can be a tank class. Those elementals can't tank, they die too fast, they don't have enough defense.

    The defense penalties in elemental are easily dealt with , the answers are warded armors and solarflare gems. I've been doing it since level 40 and I have had zero complaints from any healers.

    Protectors are a luxery class. I pull mobs with blood soak, pop blade of reflection, use my aoes and I can keep agro on the mobs long enough for the aoe class to kill them.

    If elemental can't be a tank, then why do people keep asking me if I am aegis?
  • raginhomosapien
    raginhomosapien Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Your hp and attack are both way too low. You should have 4200 atk with brute force, and the bare minimum hp is 25000 - though ideally you want no less than 30k.

    Your def is way too high. Def is useless. Utterly. Useless.
    Combat stance is also useless unless you're aegis (which is the useless spec).

    Anyways, aegis is completely trash in pvp, def is useless in pvp. the -6% damage is not bad but it's still **** considering you lose like 20% dps by not being a better tree.
    At 75 the -300 mastery skill does reduce 30% damage, but it's not worth the craptastic dps you trade off. And ele/blood are perfectly viable single-target tanks as you have the highest hp in the game.

    You go ahead and pass me the gems to get that 4200 attack and I'll be sure to write you a thank you letter.

    I'm not sure how defense is useless when it increases my effective hit points by a flat amount.

    I ONLY use combat stance when there is no priest and the bard can't keep up with healing.

    Reduced damage = more effective hit points.
  • raginhomosapien
    raginhomosapien Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    It is just plain 'shocking' how these Ele Crusaders cannot leave well enough alone.

    You guys do know that you've made your points often enough that we know them. All of them. You also seem to be about as dense can be because at this point it should be rather obvious that we have no interest in them. If I want to respec, I'll respec. Right now, I'm enjoying being a main boss tank for my guild (teaming with prots for adds) and am more interested in discussing how to get better at it with my fellow aegis warriors than listening to the same old tired arguments from people who are incapable of understanding that this game has different trees for a reason.

    And before you try to argue with me, read the post again. Don't waste our time. I've seen and read all the arguments, and have no interest in seeing them spammed again.

    I'm just saying that I'm elemental and I tank just as good if not better than you.
  • noxshadow1
    noxshadow1 Posts: 184 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    So...I started reading through this thread as a Bard...and have to say it's extremely amusing.

    Right now I'm a lvl76 Light Bard, I have a small warrior I play on the side for fun...and I will tell you here and now to all those Elemental Warriors thinking they're so bad ****...you're not. It doesn't matter how much damage you can do when you're rooted to the ground, or out of mana, or dead. I'm all for the damage dealers in the group, so long as they realize if they do something stupid like "Get a huge ego and try to tank something they shouldn't..." I have no qualms leaving their lifeless body on the battlefield.

    Everyone instantly talks about PvP...however there's about 10x more PvE content in this game than PvP. Just because you're awesome verses players doesn't mean you're awesome in instances...and for those people who DO reference instances, have you ever stopped to wonder how much the healers have to work to keep you alive because you want to be some Super Warrior who can do everything?

    The ORIGINAL point of this topic was to discuss Aegis Warriors...the ones designed to tank WHEN THERE IS NOT A PROTECTOR TO TANK. So before all of you spout off **** about "Roll a Prot" or "Roll a Mage or MM if you want aggro" perhaps you should actually listen to what the OP was getting at ^^;