"Ele Warriors" v.s "Venom Sins" -----> who is statistically superior?

paragon1337
paragon1337 Posts: 27 Arc User
edited October 2011 in Class Discussion
I want to hear from both sides to get a better picture of the advantages and disadvantages of each lategame.

The context is a blend of PvP and PvE.

As I see it:

-Warriors have a bit of AoE with long recharge times (not spectacular)

-Warriors have BoR (soon to be nerfed?)

-Warriors look better



-Venom Sins will have higher DPS even after mutilate nerf. (how much higher?)

-Venom Sins have better defenses (I am assuming that Ele Warriors in frenzy stance have megabad HP and defense and evasion, so bad that his heavy armour becomes in effect leather armour)

-Venom Sins have stealth (is bugged to 30s now, but will be fixed I'm sure so that
permastealth is no longer possible in Forsaken World)



Mutilate will be nerfed so I'm not taking into account the Venom Sin's single target damage against bosses.

These are both melee DPS classes. From my limited viewpoint, the Venom Sin seems better because besides a few feeble AoEs, the Ele Warrior is weaker both offensively and defensively in terms of sheer stat.

-Plz give an estimate of how much Attack/HP/defence an average lvl 70 Ele War or Sin will have.

-Plz don't say "it all depends" or "there is no best class". Such a statement is respectable but uninformative.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!
Post edited by paragon1337 on

Comments

  • DeltaTroop - Storm Legion
    DeltaTroop - Storm Legion Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I don't know about damage wise, but you're completely wrong on venom sins having better defenses. Frenzy stance doesn't affect HP at all and reduces evasion by 24 and defense by 54, which is more then made up for in comparison to sins by the warrior armors much higher defense stats.

    As for stealth, I think its working as intended. Stealth only lasts until you attack or get hit, and can't be entered in combat, and doesn't work in pve, so it doesn't much matter if you 'permastealth'.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • paragon1337
    paragon1337 Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Warriors generally have lower evasion, so I made the assumption. Do you know what a 70ish Ele warrior should have for defense and HP, and what a 70ish Venom Sin should have?

    There is a sin skill that allows combat stealth xD
  • DeltaTroop - Storm Legion
    DeltaTroop - Storm Legion Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Warriors generally have lower evasion, so I made the assumption. Do you know what a 70ish Ele warrior should have for defense and HP, and what a 70ish Venom Sin should have?

    There is a sin skill that allows combat stealth xD

    My 74 ele warrior has 25k HP unbuffed and 620 defense.

    Yes sins get shadow protection, but it doesn't last that long, has a 3 min cooldown, and resets the cooldown on regular stealth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • paragon1337
    paragon1337 Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    and how much hp and defense would a sin have at 74? Sorry to ask such a Question but I can't make the comparison without knowing that to.
  • Okiemute - Eyrda
    Okiemute - Eyrda Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    usually 15khp+. def i forgot. but my def was a little more than 500 at lvl 71
    only 2.2k-2.4k acc with VI buff, that's all and i have only 13chroma. But you can't compare a lvl 74 ele war to a lvl 74 venom sin because they likely gear differently. unless you compare them without gear on. But it's high probable(with personal experience) that a same gear/lvl ele War and Venom. Venom will likely win. Wars have long cast skills perfect for pitch. and with having high hp also our DoT and Seed of Agony comes very handy for it and also def debuff. there are ways to getting over obstacles like high hp and def. Each class/tree is made to counteract other classes/trees
  • Julia_VII - Storm Legion
    Julia_VII - Storm Legion Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Sins will say they are superior, and so will Warriors. I've played both so I have a better view.

    Sins are squishy. They say they aren't because they have no experience with other classes, but after you play a warrior, and you try a sin, you feel like your armour is made of butter. Even if you are elemental, warrior has way superior survavability.

    Sins have uber fast cooldowns, but the damage per skill is lower compared to warriors. They make up for it with speed.

    Venom sins aren't made for PvP. It is possible to PvP with them, but you will not be as effective as an Edge sin. Whereas elemental warriors are a tree that do good in both pvp and pve. Not many trees in this game can do good in both, its interesting to say the least.

    Warriors have way less eva simply because they don't stack eva. Its not necessary for them. Defense has immediate effects, whereas evasion is either all or nothing. Eva makes no difference until you stack a shtload of it. There are very few eva warriors out there, and unfortunately from my experience they aren't that good.

    Elemental warriors also have two eva debuffs on their tree, which is Rain of Blood (with bloodsoak mastery) and Threatening Roar. If you max both talents, thats -95 eva pressing two buttons. If you also stack accuracy gems, and use those skills, you will never have a problem with eva builds.

    Sins are orb reliant, its kinda annoying in my opinion but you get used to it. Warriors dont have any clutter on their screen, but you still have to follow a strick skill rotation if you want to be effective.


    Now if you want to be wanted in instances, you should consider a venom sin. It requires no skill (no offense) to trigger the mutilation effect, and ANY venom sin 75+ is wanted for instances/world boss hunting. Elemental warriors aren't wanted in general. Only very good elemental warriors, known for beeing skilled with their class, will be always wanted, but same happens with other classes and trees.

    Sorry for the wall of text, thats pretty much as far as my experience goes.
  • Okiemute - Eyrda
    Okiemute - Eyrda Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    well. lol. i'll agree to dissagree on the comment on venom sins not made for pvp. since everyone has their own opinions and until a dev of high authority comes out and say a venom or any other class tree is made to do a certain role and only that will i believe. I've explained why a venom is good for pvp. if you face a good one you'll also know. other than that it depends on your experience and game play preference. some like edge some like dark for pvp and some like me can't play those because it's just not my style of pvp and stick with venom. we don't have 2 silence skills to silence mobs now. an Edge has 1long silence skill. it's not spam able because u only get it from a finisher and can't spam a finisher.

    Now, each class/tree both have strength and weaknesses. It depends on what you prefer in strength/weakness ratio.

    Every class is orb reliant. if you don't collect orbs you usually lose if your enemy collects them. the game pvp is based around getting orbs.




    @Paragon1337

    A Venom sin has low def and hp compared to a equally geared war. But if Hp,def and attack is the only way to win in pvp everyone will be rolling prots because they have all these characteristics. Since it's not, you can see a Bard beat a prot, etc.
    >.< "there is no best class"

    I as a Venom sin have more problems with prots and Dark vamps than i do against priests and water bards or Ele Wars. MMs(without too much eva) if equally gear is the easiest class for me to beat.
    But like i said before it depends on the situation and play style and gear of each person/class. Sometimes I get **** by an MM or Bard or Ele war because of situation, play style and gear style of each player. It would probably be the same with an Ele war, they are the closest to being a tank apart from prots and also have the downside of being one also. If you don't like playing an assassin or an Ele War. it's because of your preference in pvp. it's not the class or the skill tree that sucks. Not everything can be good for everyone.

    If you're going on a pve server i recommend a Venom sin. If you are going on a pvp server, go Ele War or Edge sin because if you decide to not like the tree for any reason you can always go Venom or dark :D, you have 3 options to choose from in pvp since assassin is a "pvp class" with. if it's was a pve class our stealth would work against mobs, all of venom's -%hp reduction damage skills would be reduced and would work on world bosses since it's really not a controlling skill like the bosses' buff states.




    Lmao, i had to edit and add this. :D.

    [IMG]Lmao, i had to edit and add this. :D.[/img]think-big-think-big-problem-fail-life-demotivational-posters-1318677027.jpg
  • Julia_VII - Storm Legion
    Julia_VII - Storm Legion Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I meant the orbs interface, agony and blast orbs, they are annoying as fck. Regular wrath collectible orbs are a must for anyone.
  • Okiemute - Eyrda
    Okiemute - Eyrda Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Ah, ok. It was anoying for me too when i started playing assassin also.lol
  • Okiemute - Eyrda
    Okiemute - Eyrda Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    I have an advice for you Paragon. I have a Dark vamp also. and the best class i know 100% that can **** a war is a Dark vamp(or probably any vamp at that since i was a hybrid blood/dark vamp). Another class that i feel is OP, is a Water bard although i haven't played one, from my experience against them when i played edge and Venom it was still hard to take them down.

    Dark vamp : when i was lvl 60 Edge sin, Vamps were the easiest class to beat. But now my lvl 74 Dark Vamp friend seems to **** all kinds of sins. with his lvl 65+ talents. >.<. they are getting very OP.I also know a Blood vamp that's also OP. because she stacks alot of hp and eva gems, and the lvl 65 skill(+certain amount of def and hp buff) is doing all vamps Great things . She made me take back what i thought about blood vamps lol.If i didn't like playing a sin and lvled him to 60 first, i would've rerolled on my vamp permanently.

    so if i had a choice between Venom and War, i'll choose a Dark vamp(very likely), or a Water bard(feminine guys isn't for me) lol.