The cancer that will kill FW

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Comments

  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    kyosuken wrote: »
    You don't have to be a business major to understand these numbers either:

    In the 3rd quarter of 2010, PWE showed a 30% decline in profit. In the 4th quarter, they showed a 54% decline. And that's pretty funny, since everything goes on sale during the 4th quarter with so many holidays. And millions of spoiled kids and eager parents are willing to throw money all over video games during this time. How did they manage to LOSE money during that time frame?

    It's because the vast majority of the playerbase is no longer responding to their cash shops, in any of their games. You can fool some people sometimes, but not everyone every time. Surely if everyone thought like you, PWE should be making MORE money than Nexon by now. PWE has been here long enough to be able to rival Nexon, just from the sheer size of the competitive PvP playerbase in Western countries. But it's not. I wonder why...


    Edit:

    This made me lol. People like you are the very reason PWI can't be saved. Because you already admitted defeat and decided to deal with the broken gameplay. And now, PWI has been so broken for so long, nothing can reverse it anymore.

    Want us to succeed? Stop posting and go back to PWI. Those of us who are still willing to fight shall continue to fight.

    Dude, we are not the reason why PWI can't be saved. Do you really think that 10,000 more ppl posting on forums chanting "save PWI, down with OP cash shop items" will save any PWE games? I know you're frustrated but don't blame us realists. Do you think any developers look at what goes on in forums ever? The moderators are ppl that volunteer, like you and me, to keep the forum in check. Frankly I don't even understand who would take such a job. Anyway, if the company's upper management want short term profit, there is nothing you, I, or even the entire PWE client base can do. We don't have a vote.

    Also, a drop in profit isn't a loss, just pointing that out.

    Keep fighting, I don't believe in you!
  • tyanara
    tyanara Posts: 734 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Crabclaw actually redirects stuff to devs so that point is false.

    Now if they listen or not is another story...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Dude, we are not the reason why PWI can't be saved. Do you really think that 10,000 more ppl posting on forums chanting "save PWI, down with OP cash shop items" will save any PWE games? I know you're frustrated but don't blame us realists. Do you think any developers look at what goes on in forums ever? The moderators are ppl that volunteer, like you and me, to keep the forum in check. Frankly I don't even understand who would take such a job. Anyway, if the company's upper management want short term profit, there is nothing you, I, or even the entire PWE client base can do. We don't have a vote.

    Also, a drop in profit isn't a loss, just pointing that out.

    Keep fighting, I don't believe in you!
    PWI is that way ---->

    Feel free to return to it.


    Everyone who actually cares, let's get back to the discussion.
  • haseopkker
    haseopkker Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I've been playing since Cbt1 also, and agree with your statements and concepts. Thank you for taking your time to express them in this thread. Hopefully the people in power will be able to take this into account, and take some type of action.
  • bosth
    bosth Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    4000$ to max a mastery yo.
  • harkypoo
    harkypoo Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Was thinking about playing open beta and perhaps pursue the game past it's final release point.


    Now I'm not so sure. Obviously f2p games cost more than p2p games in the end, but the ability to "take a break" without paying has always lured me in. But if it's going to cost THOUSANDS of dollars to make a respectable high level character, count me out. I can think of THOUSANDS of more things to spend every penny on. ;)

    The one doubt I have though is this idea that it will in fact require that much money if you are willing to be patient. Perhaps the system was designed with this in mind. To slow people's "god" progress unless they are willing to pay out the rear for it. In which case, I have no problem with it. This scenario exists in almost every single f2p game in existence.

    If you want to be good extremely fast, you pay for it. If you're willing to play the game at the speed it was intended for, you pay little.

    Let me ask you all this. At anytime, did you feel you were incapable of leveling or progressing inside the game without the need for a tremendous amount of cash shop "coinage"?
  • xstaticstrata
    xstaticstrata Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    Was thinking about playing open beta and perhaps pursue the game past it's final release point.


    Now I'm not so sure. Obviously f2p games cost more than p2p games in the end, but the ability to "take a break" without paying has always lured me in. But if it's going to cost THOUSANDS of dollars to make a respectable high level character, count me out. I can think of THOUSANDS of more things to spend every penny on. ;)

    Does Boat, car, House, US Battle Navy Ship, Moon include those thousands?

    The one doubt I have though is this idea that it will in fact require that much money if you are willing to be patient. Perhaps the system was designed with this in mind. To slow people's "god" progress unless they are willing to pay out the rear for it. In which case, I have no problem with it. This scenario exists in almost every single f2p game in existence.

    It costs around 20k+ to max your masteries and maybe resistance as well, 4k per mastery that 4k could be put to use to buying something alot better, say a PS3, xbox, psp. DS + games. So yea my preference to spend 4k to max a mastery could be used to buy me multiple forms of enjoyment I would take it and do such.

    If you want to be good extremely fast, you pay for it. If you're willing to play the game at the speed it was intended for, you pay little.

    This is how CS are supposed to work not break the damn game at its core

    Let me ask you all this. At anytime, did you feel you were incapable of leveling or progressing inside the game without the need for a tremendous amount of cash shop "coinage"?

    Progression in this game is quest based so CS cannot affect that, tho the laziness involved in the making of these "fed ex" quests is a HUGE turn off

    yea reply in quote
  • tyanara
    tyanara Posts: 734 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    Let me ask you all this. At anytime, did you feel you were incapable of leveling or progressing inside the game without the need for a tremendous amount of cash shop "coinage"?
    Leveling is not the whole point of a MMO, unless you're one of those types that reaches cap and quits as it is "game over" for such people.

    I agree CSers need an advantage of time but the costs of M/R are just incredibly ridiculous, would take years to get enough coins for them, or tens of thousands of dollars (this is ridiculous too, you know)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    Was thinking about playing open beta and perhaps pursue the game past it's final release point.


    Now I'm not so sure. Obviously f2p games cost more than p2p games in the end, but the ability to "take a break" without paying has always lured me in. But if it's going to cost THOUSANDS of dollars to make a respectable high level character, count me out. I can think of THOUSANDS of more things to spend every penny on. ;)

    The one doubt I have though is this idea that it will in fact require that much money if you are willing to be patient. Perhaps the system was designed with this in mind. To slow people's "god" progress unless they are willing to pay out the rear for it. In which case, I have no problem with it. This scenario exists in almost every single f2p game in existence.

    If you want to be good extremely fast, you pay for it. If you're willing to play the game at the speed it was intended for, you pay little.

    Let me ask you all this. At anytime, did you feel you were incapable of leveling or progressing inside the game without the need for a tremendous amount of cash shop "coinage"?

    Nah lol, this game has more dailies than Brad Pitt has girlfriends named Jennifer. Lvling to 45 took me about a month, although there was a pretty large spike in exp needed from I think lvl 36 to 37, but even the 13-14 mil exp required for 45+ wasn't so bad with the dailies. So lvling won't be a problem. The problem is that you go out of safe for a quest, and once in a while someone with red hands will one hit you, which I can live with.
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    Was thinking about playing open beta and perhaps pursue the game past it's final release point.


    Now I'm not so sure. Obviously f2p games cost more than p2p games in the end, but the ability to "take a break" without paying has always lured me in. But if it's going to cost THOUSANDS of dollars to make a respectable high level character, count me out. I can think of THOUSANDS of more things to spend every penny on. ;)

    The one doubt I have though is this idea that it will in fact require that much money if you are willing to be patient. Perhaps the system was designed with this in mind. To slow people's "god" progress unless they are willing to pay out the rear for it. In which case, I have no problem with it. This scenario exists in almost every single f2p game in existence.

    If you want to be good extremely fast, you pay for it. If you're willing to play the game at the speed it was intended for, you pay little.

    Let me ask you all this. At anytime, did you feel you were incapable of leveling or progressing inside the game without the need for a tremendous amount of cash shop "coinage"?
    That's actually an interesting question for this game. Well, let me tell you this:

    95% of the tradeable coin we earned from CBT phase 3 onward, originated within the cash shop. There is a quest called "Midas Touch" which requires an item called the Mercury Statuette, which can only be purchased from the cash shop. Because we all had free CS currency in phases 3 and 4, the market suddenly BOOMED with gold to trade, where in the previous phases gold was much harder to farm.


    I dunno if that's good or bad. Naturally, there were people selling the statues for a bit less than the quest reward, so technically everyone didn't have to CS for them directly. But the point is, the CS is what gave the market its massive power in p3-4. SOMEONE had to pay into it to get the ball rolling, and that already is a pretty questionable system.


    The real issue, however, is just that the Mastery and Resistance training grants HUGE percent-based bonuses to damage dealt and damage reductions, provided they follow through on it. And its crazy expensive; so no 100% free player can keep up with it, even if he devotes his life to buying and selling statues or leaves from the other players. We ran the numbers and we're quite certain it would take years to accomplish, and that's probably a best-case scenario.

    Meanwhile, someone with enough IRL cash can swoop in and get it done in record breaking time. If he maxes his resistances, his ability to reduce damage will be so extreme that the best geared character on the server still can't kill him, unless he can raise his mastery up high enough to rival it. But he can't do that unless he too spends a fortune on the game. Which would mean we then have two people who abused the system in order to be strong.

    It can only get worse from there. That's why we're trying to stop it before it starts.
  • harkypoo
    harkypoo Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    tyanara wrote: »
    Leveling is not the whole point of a MMO, unless you're one of those types that reaches cap and quits as it is "game over" for such people.

    I agree CSers need an advantage of time but the costs of M/R are just incredibly ridiculous, would take years to get enough coins for them, or tens of thousands of dollars (this is ridiculous too, you know)

    Leveling might not be the whole point of a MMO to YOU, but everyone plays MMOs for different reasons.

    For me, I actually enjoy grinding levels and meeting good folks from around the world. I've grown from wanting to "be the best" a long time ago. I'm the type who likes to simply have a respectable character that can do the tasks the game is designed with. I don't care to be the best, because I know I'll never be the best ... there's always a bigger fish with more time and more money than I'll ever have. So what ... you can have the highest lvl character with the most uber gear in the world with a personality of rock. That doesn't make you the "best" player ... it just makes you the biggest b!nghole.

    PEOPLE always have and always will make a MMO what it is. I'd rather "game" with a lvl15 who I enjoy conversing with than a lvl1000 with a god complex, ya know?


    Honestly, I appreciate this thread a lot ... but some where along the way this thread became more of a p!ssing match and doomsday prediction than an insightful one. Some are claiming they're "trying to save the game" but the banter is pushing people like me away from it.


    Having to spend tens of thousands of dollars to max out a character is ridiculous ... period.
    But it sounds like many people would STILL enjoy the game if they aren't hung up on being the "ub3r 3l1t3".

    That's something that some of you seem to be overshadowing with all of this and have newcomers like myself thinking twice. (Which certainly wont help the game succeed either)
  • tyanara
    tyanara Posts: 734 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    For me, I actually enjoy grinding levels and meeting good folks from around the world. I've grown from wanting to "be the best" a long time ago. I'm the type who likes to simply have a respectable character that can do the tasks the game is designed with. I don't care to be the best, because I know I'll never be the best ... there's always a bigger fish with more time and more money than I'll ever have. So what ... you can have the highest lvl character with the most uber gear in the world with a personality of rock. That doesn't make you the "best" player ... it just makes you the biggest b!nghole.
    I agree with what you said but there's a difference between wanting to be the best and wanting to be able to compete and not be totally annihilated with no chance at all.

    As for rest of your points, you don't know if they will implement a dungeon hard enough that you can't do without huge mastery and resistances. It happened in PWI, they changed HH and made it very hard and challenging but only for the best geared, so low gear ones don't stand any chance.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    Leveling might not be the whole point of a MMO to YOU, but everyone plays MMOs for different reasons.

    For me, I actually enjoy grinding levels and meeting good folks from around the world. I've grown from wanting to "be the best" a long time ago. I'm the type who likes to simply have a respectable character that can do the tasks the game is designed with. I don't care to be the best, because I know I'll never be the best ... there's always a bigger fish with more time and more money than I'll ever have. So what ... you can have the highest lvl character with the most uber gear in the world with a personality of rock. That doesn't make you the "best" player ... it just makes you the biggest b!nghole.

    PEOPLE always have and always will make a MMO what it is. I'd rather "game" with a lvl15 who I enjoy conversing with than a lvl1000 with a god complex, ya know?


    Honestly, I appreciate this thread a lot ... but some where along the way this thread became more of a p!ssing match and doomsday prediction than an insightful one. Some are claiming they're "trying to save the game" but the banter is pushing people like me away from it.


    Having to spend tens of thousands of dollars to max out a character is ridiculous ... period.
    But it sounds like many people would STILL enjoy the game if they aren't hung up on being the "ub3r 3l1t3".

    That's something that some of you seem to be overshadowing with all of this and have newcomers like myself thinking twice. (Which certainly wont help the game succeed either)

    That's nice. But, I'm sorry to tell you, but FW is overrun with competitive gamers. We might not necessarily aim to be "the best" but most of us aim to compete. Even on the PvE servers, I'm pretty sure there's gonna be people competing to be the first ones to get a guild base, or even to boast the best win ratio in guild wars.

    That being said, the M/R system (and to a lesser extent, the CS gems) will pretty much kill the sense of competitive gameplay and will simply encourage competitive spending. That's not fun for us.
  • harkypoo
    harkypoo Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    kyosuken wrote: »
    The real issue, however, is just that the Mastery and Resistance training grants HUGE percent-based bonuses to damage dealt and damage reductions, provided they follow through on it. And its crazy expensive; so no 100% free player can keep up with it, even if he devotes his life to buying and selling statues or leaves from the other players. We ran the numbers and we're quite certain it would take years to accomplish, and that's probably a best-case scenario.

    What about someone who is simply trying to keep up with the game and doesn't care what other players are doing?

    Do players HAVE to spend cases full of cash in order to play the game (level/boss/etc) or do they have to spend cases full of cash simply to compete in pvp matches against "elite players".


    Two COMPLETELY different things IMHO.
  • xstaticstrata
    xstaticstrata Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    What about someone who is simply trying to keep up with the game and doesn't care what other players are doing?

    Do player HAVE to spend cases full of cash in order to play the game (level/boss/etc) or do they have to spend cases full of cash simply to compete in pvp matches against "elite players".


    Two COMPLETELY different things IMHO.

    It seems you have not tried a PWE game yet, try one of them sir, you'll know what we mean. Their CS model gets WORSE as the game ages and in time it WILL affect PvE. check em out, youll know
  • fusionultima
    fusionultima Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Second OP's Post.. Except For The Bad Handling Of The Beta.

    Actually I Quit My Last Game Because It Was SO HORRIBLE.

    And It Got Even Worse After Release..
    Seriously, Don't Ask About The Caps. It's A Habit. If It Bothers You, Disregard My Posts.
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    What about someone who is simply trying to keep up with the game and doesn't care what other players are doing?

    Do player HAVE to spend cases full of cash in order to play the game (level/boss/etc) or do they have to spend cases full of cash simply to compete in pvp matches against "elite players".


    Two COMPLETELY different things IMHO.

    Again, that's nice. But all that really means is that this thread isn't for you.

    We're here to call attention to a threat to a balanced, equal, gameplay experience for ALL players. Not the small minority of players who never engage in any kind of competition (and trust me, you are in a small minority in this community).

    But yeah. The issue poses a threat to the rest of us, and therefore it will prevent the quality of having an equal experience for all. Thus, it's a problem. Maybe not for you, but for us definitely.
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    What about someone who is simply trying to keep up with the game and doesn't care what other players are doing?

    Do players HAVE to spend cases full of cash in order to play the game (level/boss/etc) or do they have to spend cases full of cash simply to compete in pvp matches against "elite players".


    Two COMPLETELY different things IMHO.

    Well let me actually answer your question. No, up to lvl 45 I did not have a need to cash shop in order to do dungeons/bosses/dailies. The job dailies give you free potion/food. Many dailies give you plenty of soulcoin, which can be used to buy pots. Instances give you shards that can be exchanged for equipment, dim bris/recharging shards to fortify gear, scroll of sage/the stone tablet thingy to identify gears, and gems to imbed gears with. They even have good pets that can be acquired in an instance called Creekbank Valley. So no, cash shop is not required if you enjoy casual gameplay.

    And to the other guy, stop deeming yourself the majority and other ppl minority. I don't think there has been an official census taken on the player attitude on FW or PWI so please don't think that just because your friends, your guild, and the ppl that you hang out with are competitive, the majority of the ppl do. The majority of ppl you come in touch with isn't an equal representation of the entire player base. I'm not saying that it isn't, but just that I don't have any information to back up that claim and neither do you.
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    And to the other guy, stop deeming yourself the majority and other ppl minority. I don't think there has been an official census taken on the player attitude on FW or PWI so please don't think that just because your friends, your guild, and the ppl that you hang out with are competitive, the majority of the ppl do. The majority of ppl you come in touch with isn't an equal representation of the entire player base. I'm not saying that it isn't, but just that I don't have any information to back up that claim and neither do you.

    Just cause you don't believe it doesn't make it not true. Try hanging around the FW forums for the next few months like I've been doing since before phase 1. And try hanging around the PWI forums since PWE first launched them. The vast majority of the active posters here have at least a semi-competitive mindset. Same thing on PWI, that's why everyone asks about the "best builds" or the "best weapon choices". They want to compete with their peers, even if its only from a PvE perspective.

    They might not be aiming to be the best, or any better than anyone else. But they want to know what it takes to succeed on a comparative level. And that's called being competitive, even if its passively competitive.

    Edit: And don't try saying "thats just the forums lol." People do the same thing in world chats in-game. People do the same thing when they ask their friends for advice in-game. They're asking so they don't "**** up their builds." Because they want to make sure they can at least compare to their peers. Most people don't want to be on the bottom of the rung. Which again, is called being competitive.
  • harkypoo
    harkypoo Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I don't get the semi-hostility. (perhaps I'm just misjudging there)

    First you say that this unbalance will effect all players, even PWE itself (which can be very true) ... then you're saying this thread is not for me. Well if it effects my game play (i.e. games closes) than obviously this thread is for me.

    I came into this thread to get answer from people who played CB to decide if it's worth a shot or not. I didn't come here to start another p!ssing contest or get an eye full of sarcasm.

    You like to compete ... I get it ... I really do. I like to "compete" too, just not hung up on being "uber elite" (especially if it's going to cost tens of thousands of dollars :eek:)


    The fundamental question I'm trying to get answered here is how will this "unbalance" ultimately effect the average mmo joe .... who wants to be competitive (respectable char) ... but doesn't care if he's in the Top 10, 20, 50, 100, whatever.

    What percentage of players do you think will be willing to spend massive amounts of money in order to be godly ... and will THAT percentage be high enough for everyone else to ultimately care? I don't care if I'm not a "1%er" ... I DO care that I'm at least least a "51%er". (Meaning I can develop a char that's as good if not better than the majority of players)
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    I don't get the semi-hostility. (perhaps I'm just misjudging there)

    First you say that this unbalance will effect all players, even PWE itself (which can be very true) ... then you're saying this thread is not for me. Well if it effects my game play (i.e. games closes) than obviously this thread is for me.

    I came into this thread to get answer from people who played CB to decide if it's worth a shot or not. I didn't come here to start another p!ssing contest or get an eye full of sarcasm.

    You like to compete ... I get it ... I really do. I like to "compete" too, just not hung up on being "uber elite" (especially if it's going to cost tens of thousands of dollars :eek:)


    The fundamental question I'm trying to get answered here is how will this "unbalance" ultimately effect the average mmo joe .... who wants to be competitive (respectable char) ... but doesn't care if he's in the Top 10, 20, 50, 100, whatever.

    What percentage of players do you think will be willing to spend massive amounts of money in order to be godly ... and will THAT percentage be high enough for everyone else to ultimately care? I don't care if I'm not a "1%er" ... I DO care that I'm at least least a "51%er". (Meaning I can develop a char that's as good if not better than the majority of players)

    You're perceiving a lot more hostility than whats actually being thrown at you. Personally, I don't consider anything I've said to you to be even remotely hostile. But if you took it that way, then I'll try to be a little more careful with my choice of words.

    The reason why I'm saying this thread isn't for you, is because you expressed a disinterest in any and all forms of competition, even the lesser/lighter forms, when you asked stuff like "do you really need to CS to play?"

    The answer is, technically no. If you just want to log in, go explore, and level at a non-competitive pace, then no you do not. But the thing is, if thats all you care about, then you need not worry about balance in the first place, because it would have so little effect on you anyways.

    My point is that most of the people here aren't that carefree. Even the hardcore cash spenders like Trev are calling PWE out in this one. And Trev is a man who single-handedly dropped 5-digit figures on his PWI characters... and yes I said characters, cause his entire account might be more than that.


    If you just want to log in and play, with zero level of competition, you can still do so. The game probably won't ever be so dead that you'd be the only one logging in, I'm sure. But for the rest of us, we'd end up taking our business elsewhere.
  • harkypoo
    harkypoo Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Well let me actually answer your question. No, up to lvl 45 I did not have a need to cash shop in order to do dungeons/bosses/dailies. The job dailies give you free potion/food. Many dailies give you plenty of soulcoin, which can be used to buy pots. Instances give you shards that can be exchanged for equipment, dim bris/recharging shards to fortify gear, scroll of sage/the stone tablet thingy to identify gears, and gems to imbed gears with. They even have good pets that can be acquired in an instance called Creekbank Valley. So no, cash shop is not required if you enjoy casual gameplay.

    Thanks for answering a question.

    Don't get me wrong ... I actually cash shop in games. (it's good to support the people who provide you entertainment) But I certainly won't be spending tens of thousands of dollars any time soon. ;)

    Sounds like this game might still be enjoyable to me as I don't really care if I'm in the top 1% of a server. Unless I'm completely underestimating how many people will be willing to spend thousands of dollars on a f2p game.
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    Thanks for answering a question.

    Don't get me wrong ... I actually cash shop in games. (it's good to support the people who provide you entertainment) But I certainly won't be spending tens of thousands of dollars any time soon. ;)

    Sounds like this game might still be enjoyable to me as I don't really care if I'm in the top 1% of a server. Unless I'm completely underestimating how many people will be willing to spend thousands of dollars on a f2p game.

    Eh. While it will only start out as an elite group, its just a matter of time. PWI is in the broken-down money-driven state its in now, because EVENTUALLY people wind up getting left in the dust if they don't drop some dough.

    It's hard to run Nirvana on PWI because farming the instance takes ages, and people only want the best of the best (5.0 APS characters) to do the majority of the killing. Magic classes often get left out because they can't compete with the 5.0 melee guys.

    That's just one example. PWI is loaded with elitism over whether or not you spent enough to be one of the best DDers around. And the instances at high levels are honestly so hard to farm that SOMEBODY has to be trying to be elite to get the job done in anything less than several hours.

    FW will end up the same way if something isn't done about it. We're all calling this one early.
  • harkypoo
    harkypoo Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    kyosuken wrote: »
    You're perceiving a lot more hostility than whats actually being thrown at you. Personally, I don't consider anything I've said to you to be even remotely hostile. But if you took it that way, then I'll try to be a little more careful with my choice of words.

    The reason why I'm saying this thread isn't for you, is because you expressed a disinterest in any and all forms of competition, even the lesser/lighter forms, when you asked stuff like "do you really need to CS to play?"

    The answer is, technically no. If you just want to log in, go explore, and level at a non-competitive pace, then no you do not. But the thing is, if thats all you care about, then you need not worry about balance in the first place, because it would have so little effect on you anyways.

    My point is that most of the people here aren't that carefree. Even the hardcore cash spenders like Trev are calling PWE out in this one. And Trev is a man who single-handedly dropped 5-digit figures on his PWI characters... and yes I said characters, cause his entire account might be more than that.


    If you just want to log in and play, with zero level of competition, you can still do so. The game probably won't ever be so dead that you'd be the only one logging in, I'm sure. But for the rest of us, we'd end up taking our business elsewhere.


    I don't know where you're coming from.

    I said I don't care if I'm "godly" ... never said I don't like to compete.
    I said I don't want to spend "cases full of cash" ... never said I won't use the cash shop.

    Both couldn't be farther from the truth. If I wasn't willing to spend some cash on this game, I wouldn't care if it's gone tomorrow (and I wouldn't be showing concern).



    What is your definition of competing?
    - Being a well rounded tough character who can beat the majority of people on a server

    - Being a character who "most know and fear"


    If it's the first one, then are you telling me it will take thousands of dollars in order to compete with the majority of players? (Then I'm no interested)

    If it's the second definition, we share different definitions and this game might be enjoyable to me.
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Check the post right above yours. If I'm still missing the mark for you, its probably cause I'm a bit tired.


    to respond to your last post...
    Essentially we're saying the first one will happen eventually.
  • xstaticstrata
    xstaticstrata Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    I don't know where you're coming from.

    I said I don't care if I'm "godly" ... never said I don't like to compete.
    I said I don't want to spend "cases full of cash" ... never said I won't use the cash shop.

    Both couldn't be farther from the truth. If I wasn't willing to spend some cash on this game, I wouldn't care if it's gone tomorrow (and I wouldn't be showing concern).



    What is your definition of competing?
    - Being a well rounded tough character who can beat the majority of people on a server

    - Being a character who "most know and fear"


    If it's the first one, then are you telling me it will take thousands of dollars in order to compete with the majority of players? (Then I'm no interested)

    If it's the second definition, we share different definitions and this game might be enjoyable to me.

    you aren't reading his replies properly. He answered your question and provided additional detail that it WILL affect everyone casual or not as PWE tends to make their games CS dependant after a year or so. So yea
  • kyosuken
    kyosuken Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    you aren't reading his replies properly. He answered your question and provided additional detail that it WILL affect everyone casual or not as PWE tends to make their games CS dependant after a year or so. So yea

    Correct. And once this habit begins, PWE's usual habit is to try to compensate for it by adding even more power-grabbing options to the CS. Which ultimately results in an even wider divide between the groups.

    The natural result of so many broken characters walking around is that the instances will seem too easy, because the players running it are so over-geared for it.

    PWE (or should I say in this case, the parent company in Beijing) will usually attempt to over-compensate for this by introducing harder instances.


    But what's the problem with creating PvE instances specifically for the elite? That's right. The average can't finish them. That's why the upper-tier Twilight Temple instances, and the Nirvana instance are so damned hard to run without taking godly CSers in with you. (PWI again)

    Edit: So the moral to the story is, there is a legitimate possibility that the imbalance of FW's cash shop could snowball on the rest of the community. It will start with the elite, but it will spread from there. Naturally, we don't want this to happen. PWI has already become a joke to a decent size of the MMO community for western audiences. We want to keep FW from being the punchline.
  • harkypoo
    harkypoo Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    So you foresee a time when in order to maintain a decent character capable of competing with the majority of players, you will have to spend thousands of dollars?

    That's insane. 1, that they would do that to their community. 2, that people are willing to go along with it and play that kinda game with the CS. :eek:

    I mean ... if no one but a few are willing to keep throwing tons of money at them, you'd think the playing field would maintain somewhat even for the majority of players.
  • xstaticstrata
    xstaticstrata Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    harkypoo wrote: »
    So you foresee a time when in order to maintain a decent character capable of competing with the majority of players, you will have to spend thousands of dollars?

    That's insane. 1, that they would do that to their community. 2, that people are willing to go along with it and play that kinda game with the CS. :eek:

    I mean ... if no one but a few are willing to keep throwing tons of money at them, you'd think the playing field would maintain somewhat even for the majority of players.

    ever heard of BOI? they lied about not making CS OP and look what happened to it lol.

    1) they WILL DO IT, no ifs and buts they WILL and its out of GREED.
    2) check out BOI lol pet madness

    lmao you really don't know PWE dont you? they dont care, ESO was nice they jacked it up with OP pet skills and a requirement for end game gear in a CS lottery box lmao. Then to make things worse they make another bot area, ignoring the community's requests for non bot quests.

    This company does NOT care, other companies are stepping up their game, don't worry FW won't matter much after 1 year or so when you get like +10 F2P mmos and GW2? lol

    I casual like you, in ESO I got good gears without much CSing, I CSed only for Fash, believe it or not and I still got stuff for endgame. But that gear in CS kills it and they are making it WORSE.
  • gustavomesquita
    gustavomesquita Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    You forgot to point out some other things:

    1- Game Is badly optimized.
    2- Getting a shitload of gothics due to the "dark'y" content.
    3- Pinoys.

    Hoshi- I said it.
    [Add smth cool here]