Advantage of being a healer/tank still here in FW?

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  • storiessaveus87
    storiessaveus87 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    devonty wrote: »
    Priests here still have the highest cost per instance

    Everyone has mana problems in FW; that's not specific to priests. My sin goes through an exorbitant amount of mana pots per instance--and I honestly can't remember an instance run where I haven't had to use at least a few health pots, as well as the kindred hp leech skill.
  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Err priests are one of the least mp consumption classes amongst the caster classes...

    You should really try vamp. You may complain about priests spamming 100 pots in an instance, but how would you feel if pot cooldown can't keep up with mp consumption. LOL
  • devonty
    devonty Posts: 0
    edited March 2011
    Everyone has mana problems in FW; that's not specific to priests. My sin goes through an exorbitant amount of mana pots per instance--and I honestly can't remember an instance run where I haven't had to use at least a few health pots, as well as the kindred hp leech skill.

    way to quote half a sentence
    octarone wrote: »
    Err priests are one of the least mp consumption classes amongst the caster classes...

    You should really try vamp. You may complain about priests spamming 100 pots in an instance, but how would you feel if pot cooldown can't keep up with mp consumption. LOL

    talking more like higher lvl world bosses or being a priest lvling in random parties then mp has problems keeping up with pot cooldown
  • vindicon
    vindicon Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    octarone wrote: »
    You should really try vamp. You may complain about priests spamming 100 pots in an instance, but how would you feel if pot cooldown can't keep up with mp consumption. LOL

    Oh yeah, I play a vamp and I constantly have to keep an eye on the mp bar. If by chance I get carried away for more than 10-15 seconds (like when smamming skills in vampire mode) all my mp are gone, and I have to stick to my auto attack untill I can get it up to respectable levels again... I'm constantly "Yeah, I'm beating this boss big time, and... NOOO, my mp pot's cooldown has ended 3 WHOLE SECONDS now and I STILL haven't used it!" And the worst part... I haven't even gotten past lv30 yet...
    But, still, it could be worse... Bards and Mages have to spam health potions as well. Vamps leech their foes and priests heal themselves, so they only need mp pots, unless they are taking some serious beating.

    To the thread's point... giving any advantage to healers and tanks would make no sense anyway, since the majority of classes are either tanks or healers, in one way or another. I mean, I once even ended playing as the party's main tank with my vampire and having no real problem (aside from the fact that my hp was constantly going from full to almost 0 and back again in a flash, which made for the most frightening boss battle I've ever been into). The current system for loot distribution is very good, there is no reason to change it into smething else.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Do u have idea how boring a priest is to play. All we have is 4 attacks, the rest of the skills are heals/buffs/rez. We don't get an aoe until lvl 45. Mages have flashy aoe and high damage, sins have amazing DPS, vamps can nuke, heck even warriors have a great variety of skills. MM is one of the highest DDs in the game, and bards can use melody to buff their attack, etc. Priests SUCK. If they don't gain an advantage as far as playing the game goes, I, and probably some other ppl wouldn't want to roll such a selfless class.
  • littlepwny2
    littlepwny2 Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Protectors and priests may not be required for a run but after running instances with my bard I can see why they would be preferred. Been on runs with warriors tanking, they don't hold agro as well as a protector, on my bard I would much rather a protector be front and center than anyone else, too easy to pull agro of anyone else.

    I love my bard, but for more than 10 years, since the original 3D mmorpg that started it all, my wife and I have played tank/healer combo in various games. We enjoy the classes, we can rely on just each other when **** hits the fan, we can create groups quickly and easily, and we have vastly more mmorpg grouping experience than 98% of the people playing. Which by the way is painfully apparent in FW, some of the dumbest (and newest) player base I have ever seen. But that's the problem with F2P games, too many children who know way too little and assume way too much. I hope FW's blacklist is bigger than PWI's.

    With my bard when I apply to an instance it can take a while for a group to auto form, when my wife and I apply on the protector and priest it's instant. Two seconds after I apply party the accept group window pops up, now that's awesome. But like random groups for FCC you get some serious tools this way, it's easy to see who is skilled and who is not. Looking forward to servers going live so I can start building a friends list of decent players.

    Protector/Priests required? NO (but any DD will tell you they ARE better at the job)
  • fenrina
    fenrina Posts: 336
    edited March 2011
    If they don't gain an advantage as far as playing the game goes, I, and probably some other ppl wouldn't want to roll such a selfless class.

    While I agree Priests could use some fixes, changing the drop system is the worst way to do it by far.
  • xsparkx
    xsparkx Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Seems to me that people need to learn how to use mana efficiently. I play vamp and dont run out of mana too fast. Why? Cuz i prioritize my spells and rotation. Most pots i use is 5 per run. Easy enough to pace yourself and aa mobs, dont always have to nuke, ur not doing a run solo. the trend the game creates tho does promote heavy farming of food and pot matts. I kinda anticipate some sort of vigor/energy recovery things in the cash shop.
  • bladexm1
    bladexm1 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Superbig... They do not. Its up to the people in the party. Maybe if they go with guildies or friends. With a party outside of a guild or not with friends... fat chance... your on your own. Thats what you wanted to know correct?
  • lushyyy
    lushyyy Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Do u have idea how boring a priest is to play. All we have is 4 attacks, the rest of the skills are heals/buffs/rez. We don't get an aoe until lvl 45. Mages have flashy aoe and high damage, sins have amazing DPS, vamps can nuke, heck even warriors have a great variety of skills. MM is one of the highest DDs in the game, and bards can use melody to buff their attack, etc. Priests SUCK. If they don't gain an advantage as far as playing the game goes, I, and probably some other ppl wouldn't want to roll such a selfless class.

    If this is the case then clearly you have no business rolling a priest in the first place. People shouldn't be playing healers because they want some type of incentive or advantage over other players in dungeons and instances, they should be playing the class because they WANT to! I could care less about having an advantage in instances, I play priest because I ENJOY healing, I like feeling useful in parties without having to attack monsters, I'm able to give buffs that everyone benefits from, heal people who otherwise might die, and resurrect fallen comrades. If you're complaining about a priest because of lack of attack spells then go roll a mage or another DD class. You're argument is completely moronic and I wouldn't want you or anyone else for that matter to roll a priest just because you want some type of advantage over other players. Play a class because you like it, not to get ahead. /end rant
    When the world all around you is crumbling and you have nothing left but your faith...
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  • madmodz
    madmodz Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Well then, have fun all you fair and generous internet players, I, on the other hand will be rolling an assasin, who contributes **** to parties but will get the same share of loot. see u in autogroup!

    hemadgaiz
  • doo13
    doo13 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Wow, what an interesting mindset regarding "advantages" for certain classes. I've been playing a tank in every MMO for the past 15 years, including pwi, and I have never ran into this concept. From my experience tanks and clerics are really good folks and play the class simply because they like to help.

    Maybe it's just me and the times are changing but people should only play a class because it's intrigues them, not for some ingame "advantage" in order to put themselves above someone else. That within itself sounds selfish. I don't mean to sound preachy but if you guys are that competitive, you should really use that edge in real life with sports or business, it'll be a lot more productive. :)

    If PWI had that "advantage" for tanks and clerics, then that game was a lot more broken than i thought it was.
  • hidden30
    hidden30 Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    doo13 wrote: »
    Wow, what an interesting mindset regarding "advantages" for certain classes. I've been playing a tank in every MMO for the past 15 years, including pwi, and I have never ran into this concept. From my experience tanks and clerics are really good folks and play the class simply because they like to help.

    Maybe it's just me and the times are changing but people should only play a class because it's intrigues them, not for some ingame "advantage" in order to put themselves above someone else. That within itself sounds selfish. I don't mean to sound preachy but if you guys are that competitive, you should really use that edge in real life with sports or business, it'll be a lot more productive. :)

    If PWI had that "advantage" for tanks and clerics, then that game was a lot more broken than i thought it was.

    Good point ^_^
    "Peace is not a relationship of nations. It is a condition of mind brought about by a serenity of soul. Peace is not merely the absence of war. It is also a state of mind. Lasting peace can come only to peaceful people."
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  • lushyyy
    lushyyy Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    doo13 wrote: »
    Wow, what an interesting mindset regarding "advantages" for certain classes. I've been playing a tank in every MMO for the past 15 years, including pwi, and I have never ran into this concept. From my experience tanks and clerics are really good folks and play the class simply because they like to help.

    Maybe it's just me and the times are changing but people should only play a class because it's intrigues them, not for some ingame "advantage" in order to put themselves above someone else. That within itself sounds selfish. I don't mean to sound preachy but if you guys are that competitive, you should really use that edge in real life with sports or business, it'll be a lot more productive. :)

    If PWI had that "advantage" for tanks and clerics, then that game was a lot more broken than i thought it was.

    ^ This.
    When the world all around you is crumbling and you have nothing left but your faith...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lushyyy
    lushyyy Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I just wish that there were special privilege giving to the most needed class, but to lvl 50 so far that is not the case. I guess asking a bunch of ppl who probably know less than me is not rly a good idea, especially when they all probably were bitter DDs that got the smallest slice of pie in PWI.

    Your argument is completely moot. It makes NO sense, every class has the same chance as other classes to receive loot specific to that class. If assassin gear drops, only assassins can roll on it, same with priest gear and protector gear. Seeing as how you are the ONLY one in this topic that feels certain classes should get advantages over other classes just to make more people play the class, I would say that you are clearly the one who knows less, not us. If you need an advantage over other players just to roll a class than you have no business playing that class at all. Play a class that fits your play style or that you find fun.

    Honestly, I'm amazed at the stupidity of people. I can't even fathom how someone can be that moronic, I really hope this is some sort of pathetic attempt to troll.
    When the world all around you is crumbling and you have nothing left but your faith...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tyconnolly
    tyconnolly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Protectors and priests may not be required for a run but after running instances with my bard I can see why they would be preferred. Been on runs with warriors tanking, they don't hold agro as well as a protector, on my bard I would much rather a protector be front and center than anyone else, too easy to pull agro of anyone else.

    I play a tank warrior and yes, at lower lvls, Warriors suck at tanking but, if they tome right, they get much better. I can out-tank some protectors my level and I'm only 35. Warrior game play may be simple when compared to others but we still need to have the right stance and attack combo and know how to use them and when. Usually when I'm running an instance with my friends (including a bard), I hold aggro fairly easily. I may lose it for a few seconds (usually to my friend's mage) but I can get it back with one or two attack skills.

    As for this drop system, I personally love it and think it's much better then most. I would rather get a weapon or piece of armor I can use then one I can't and just end up having to sell or take up space until I get a chance to ask my friends whether or not they need it. Even if I'm not running the instance with my guildies or friends, I don't mind that the other players gets the item because it means the next time I end up in a run with them, they'll probably have better gear, pots, whatever which means we'll be able to go through it more efficiently and quickly.

    I also think all the classes have something to contribute to a party, whether it being DD, heal, debuffs, or tank. True, I'd rather have a priest in my party then a couple vamps or bards, but it's not like it'll be total fail if we don't have one.
  • vorpe
    vorpe Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I'll play as a cleric because i like it, as i would play any other class. I like the feeling it gives when i heal people, and thats all i need to play this class.
  • kyoshisama
    kyoshisama Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Well the main issue behind the idea of superbigfatpanda that Prot and Prie need more money to keep up instance its a mistake and its not the case in FW.
    In PWI its true that the same game empowers that kind of behavior but at FW I tried already pretty much all the classes and protector up to lvl 60 and in my experience the expense rate of all the classes its very even among all the classes.

    The repair cost of a full set on higher runs for the protector might be a little higher but check how much the rest of the characters paid for their own repairs, pots, food and so on even when the protector did his job inside the instance.

    This game IS NOT PWI and therefore the idea to empower a reward just for been an especific class seems wrong and baseless plus the game creators made a really good effort to prevent that kind of thing.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    tyconnolly wrote: »
    I play a tank warrior and yes, at lower lvls, Warriors suck at tanking but, if they tome right, they get much better. I can out-tank some protectors my level and I'm only 35. Warrior game play may be simple when compared to others but we still need to have the right stance and attack combo and know how to use them and when. Usually when I'm running an instance with my friends (including a bard), I hold aggro fairly easily. I may lose it for a few seconds (usually to my friend's mage) but I can get it back with one or two attack skills.
    a warrior cannot keep aggro at all especially in timed runs. i've seen mages and marksman doing a much better job at tanking than warriors. lots of warriors told me that they keep aggro just fine to get party invites but i lost count of how many times parties were messed up coz mobs attack everything else but the warrior.
    the only time that parties like that, with replaced tank/healer works, is when the people in group have good or very good gear or they outlvl the instance

    about the topic, there are small incentives for tank/healers.... they dont require the best weapon or highly refined weapon to do their work. good DD's cant be replaced either... you will always want to invite a gread DD with very good equipment
  • artsy23
    artsy23 Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    ursumtl wrote: »
    No there isn't any advantage and thanks God and PWE developers for that. I'm tired of Cleric/Barb having a "first choice" in mats because hey, they have 30k repair bills or mana cost. This bullcrap was nothing but a greedy artificially created system based on the stupidity of the TT drop and gear logic that made a lot of barbs and clerics very rich for no reason other than their simple existance.Barbs and clerics saw the could get away with it and the profited to max.
    Now there might be some posts around the idea of " before 5 aps repairs cost xxxx". All I have to say to that is: yeah, and the mats were at least 3 times more expensive than they were after 5 aps.
    Sir I think you are a bloody barmy, berk, manky, plonkers, poxy prat. first of all as a lvl 87 barb in PWI was a pain in the **** You have no idea how much sacrifice I put in to that character. I have spent over $400 pounds just for chamrs and other essentials items. People like you who blabber about nonsense should be excuted in front of the world.. The moral of this is you don't know **** about anything.
  • juno
    juno Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Protectors and priests may not be required for a run but after running instances with my bard I can see why they would be preferred. Been on runs with warriors tanking, they don't hold agro as well as a protector, on my bard I would much rather a protector be front and center than anyone else, too easy to pull agro of anyone else.

    I love my bard, but for more than 10 years, since the original 3D mmorpg that started it all, my wife and I have played tank/healer combo in various games. We enjoy the classes, we can rely on just each other when **** hits the fan, we can create groups quickly and easily, and we have vastly more mmorpg grouping experience than 98% of the people playing. Which by the way is painfully apparent in FW, some of the dumbest (and newest) player base I have ever seen. But that's the problem with F2P games, too many children who know way too little and assume way too much. I hope FW's blacklist is bigger than PWI's.

    With my bard when I apply to an instance it can take a while for a group to auto form, when my wife and I apply on the protector and priest it's instant. Two seconds after I apply party the accept group window pops up, now that's awesome. But like random groups for FCC you get some serious tools this way, it's easy to see who is skilled and who is not. Looking forward to servers going live so I can start building a friends list of decent players.

    Protector/Priests required? NO (but any DD will tell you they ARE better at the job)


    I truly agree with this.
    As one who has rolled a priest class in all MMOs I played, I can smell a good tank vs a bad thank right off the bat.
    In FW, Warrior will always be second to Protector when tanking.
    Boss tanking never was and never is about staying alive despite the hits.
    What it is about is getting all the agro on yourself, thereby preventing all other partymates from sustaining damage (especially the magic classes). A good tank will taunt and mass taunt on a regular basis, keeping the priest free to focus on a single heal target.
    That said, a pure Protect build Stoneman will always excel at tanking over other Stonemen builds or warriors in general.
  • skuallpw
    skuallpw Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    ehm prots have taunts and mass taunts.....

    however aegis warriors have tricks :P

    u have 150% hate generation (based on AP)

    evil ward is a taunt :)

    in combat stance assault becomes better and u generate extra hate

    now surv skills

    divine uphold CD reduced

    lots of %healt bonus

    life guadian CD reduced + every time u are hit 3% healed

    reducing 20% of enemy MAX AP is AWESOME

    are prots better tanks BASELINE? hell yes no doubt

    can Aegis warrios tank? no doubt

    having 2 classes to tank is better than 1 :)
  • arkenea1
    arkenea1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    artsy23 wrote: »
    Sir I think you are a bloody barmy, berk, manky, plonkers, poxy prat. first of all as a lvl 87 barb in PWI was a pain in the **** You have no idea how much sacrifice I put in to that character. I have spent over $400 pounds just for chamrs and other essentials items. People like you who blabber about nonsense should be excuted in front of the world.. The moral of this is you don't know **** about anything.

    I'm guessing you're British, as in the European nationality whose native language is English...Am I right so far? If not, that explains a lot.

    Just because you pay money doesn't make you more important than others. In FW, certain classes will use up way more pots than the tank or the healer. Do you mean to say that they now get more drops than you because they used more money, or are you going to say "I'm a tank, so I should get more drops"?

    "People like you who blabber about nonsense..." You're arguing with him about said "nonsense" and say he be executed over such "nonsense"...?

    What is this? I don't even...
  • tyconnolly
    tyconnolly Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    kenlee wrote: »
    a warrior cannot keep aggro at all especially in timed runs. i've seen mages and marksman doing a much better job at tanking than warriors. lots of warriors told me that they keep aggro just fine to get party invites but i lost count of how many times parties were messed up coz mobs attack everything else but the warrior.
    the only time that parties like that, with replaced tank/healer works, is when the people in group have good or very good gear or they outlvl the instance

    Then you must not have known any GOOD aegis warriors. And yes, if you go ahead of the tank, something's going to attack you and the warrior doesn't have any aoe taunts so it's going to take a bit for them to get aggro off you at lower lvls when they don't have any taunts period. I do think I had good gear (all saphire gear fortified to at least +3 and with at least lvl 1 gems embedded) but I also didn't have a problem when I hadn't had it all fortified or embedded. A non-aegis warrior is not going to be able to tank at higher lvls period. The only instance I really had problems with is Lighthouse (omg I hate that instance) but that was also partly because the first time we went through we had a **** vamp who thought they were all that and left half way through and we had to figure out things on our own. After we figured out what the hell we were doing, it was a lot easier and I pretty much tanked everything. The only one I couldn't tank was the second boss and I had to kite it a little bit to give time for pot and heal cooldowns.
  • xxjugernaut
    xxjugernaut Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ok, I didn't read anymore than the first page of responses and thought I'd throw in my input. In my opinion healers and tanks still do have advantages over dps.

    First of all you will always need a tank and healer in runs so you are in demand and will get put into groups quicker. As a tank and healer you take up 2/6 slots. 4 dps get to fight for which classes you take. 99% of the time you will be the only protector or only priest in a run so there is an advantage to that.

    Secondly, I'm not too sure about prots but I know for priests the gear on average is far cheaper to buy from vendors/AH than most dps classes because there is a high supply and less ammount of people playing the class. This isn't a direct advantage to runs themselves but when it comes to gears buying good gear for cheaper because of your class is always an advantage.
  • ursumtl
    ursumtl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    artsy23 wrote: »
    Sir I think you are a bloody barmy, berk, manky, plonkers, poxy prat. first of all as a lvl 87 barb in PWI was a pain in the **** You have no idea how much sacrifice I put in to that character. I have spent over $400 pounds just for chamrs and other essentials items. People like you who blabber about nonsense should be excuted in front of the world.. The moral of this is you don't know **** about anything.

    being an idiot is no excuse. 400 pounds for charms and essential items? roflmaowtf? really, really, being an idiot is no excuse.

    Lvl 87 in PWI? lolnoob. 87. roflmao.
  • heresy009
    heresy009 Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    In instance runs it's best to have such a setup:

    1 prot
    1 priest
    1 bard

    rest goes for DDs, however it's also great to have a war as an offtank. And then, boss aoe, debuffs and so on - best to have ranged DDs. I think no class has a particular advantage. However, I do feel that Sins are at a disadvantage in instance runs being a squishy melee who is always in range for some aoe or other.
  • ursumtl
    ursumtl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    yeah, but they have the highest dps ingame from what I understood (didn't play one myself) so it's kind of a trade off. Highest dps comes with some risks. A bit lower dps and you get the range advantage.
  • sekkurel
    sekkurel Posts: 46
    edited March 2011
    They only advantage they really have over other classes :
    a) they can get into groups faster
    b) they can get into guilds faster
  • puredesire
    puredesire Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    artsy23 wrote: »
    Sir I think you are a bloody barmy, berk, manky, plonkers, poxy prat. first of all as a lvl 87 barb in PWI was a pain in the **** You have no idea how much sacrifice I put in to that character. I have spent over $400 pounds just for chamrs and other essentials items. People like you who blabber about nonsense should be excuted in front of the world.. The moral of this is you don't know **** about anything.

    dude...executed in front of the world?....its a game, chill. Nobody told you to spend $400 on it -laughzandpoints-
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