Huge amount of grinding / brainless grinding for lvl up

2

Comments

  • ouriel125
    ouriel125 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    @llsymourll By lack of content he meant for the end-game content, the raids and instances.
    And yes, octarone have quite good point there, most of the MMO's who want to cover their lack of content is by forcing you to grind.

    Leveling curve is by far imbalance how it goes on higher and higher levels, also not to mention that from the starter levels the leveling is so easy that you can hit 30 in a day.
    This was the same with BoI and after you hit 49 and BAM!, the grinding starts.

    @harkend Blizzard removed the reputation grind 2 years ago, and now farming gold is much more easier.
    Also, I don't see many people get bored in WoW once they hit 85, because it have so much to offer.
    (in4 I get flamed)


    However, to catch the cap for 6 months is stupid, 1 or 2 months and 3 for the casuals I'll accept, but 6 months no thank you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ylanday69
    ylanday69 Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i think we have what they call an "elitist jerk" on our hands here, who just wants to conquer everything the game has to offer asap...

    this game aint gunna have premium raid progression like your "westernized" game, so the longer it takes the better. you complain about content lockout, which i understand but even tho not end game im finding more content for each level range than i can poke a stick at... so who cares about end game till i get there? theres so much do i can barely stick to the main quest chain, i went to the city at level 10, continued the main quest chain at about lvl 25 running around doing lvl 10 quests...

    did you really expect pwe to be bang on with everything they said about a game they have virtually no control of? and even then, this game is still way more westernized than any asian game ive tried. think of character models, anime, stupid voice overs, crazy flashy animations and other ***** oriental ****..... i am physically unable to play asian games, yet im into this one. its westernized enough for me.

    you know this game is gunna have end game content issues, so why rush? id rather there be a dungeon i havent got to yet than be waiting for one to be released. theres nuthin worse than rushing to max level as fast as you can just to raid and get geared and then quit and look for a new game, you know how it is. you could just bypass this whole game and go to the next if all you want is to conquer everything right away.
  • rix
    rix Posts: 18
    edited March 2011
    harkened wrote: »
    Relatively speaking, reaching the level cap here requires far less effort than any other F2P MMO's. FW really isn't that much of an Asian grindfest, comparatively speaking that is. It becomes more of a matter of who's been playing longer and does all their daily questing, well, daily. Far better than killing a thousand mobs or more, if you ask me.


    To be honest, Loong has the fastest leveling of any F2P, that I have seen so far. Can reach cap in around 2 weeks, if some daily events were "fixed" it would be a lot less, the cap is level 90. The game has excellent combat mechanics (except the stat system)... but that's it, everything else makes you go "What the hell....?". And the fact it's run by Gamigo....




    Anywho, I personally do not mind grinding for levels, as long as the grind is smooth but not a hassle of taking a minute to kill a monster or having to spam potions every 2 seconds.

    So far from what I have seen, the grind in FW is about the same in grindfest games. It's just quest grinding, not monster grinding. Tons of quests, but like in ESO, most lack an XP reward that's worth while, need to do some research to find the right ones to do.
  • sekkurel
    sekkurel Posts: 46
    edited March 2011
    Why is no1 ever positive here ???
    I mean yeah some things are wrong and they "suck" but havent you people heard of constructive criticism ??

    I mean yeah lvling can be a **** in this game leaving you hanging between key lvls ( before lvl 30 there is almost no quest to lvl you and after lvl 30 you get to 32 within a day )


    I havent heard 1 post/topic saying somewere along the line:
    Yeah that system is good but you should change that because not all or all of us dont like it.
    What i hear/read is
    THAT SUCKS CHANGE IT OR I QUIT!!!

    You know when you yell at some1 and tell him that he sucks he wont do nothing to unsuck all he will do would be to say fk off faglord and then completely ignore you
    But when you talk to him calm and say something like : man that thing ain't so great but you can change it into this which can be better that person will most likely change and do what you want it to do

    Also complaining about the grind in a MMO is kinda idiotic. Its like complaining that a video game is played on a PC or console ....
  • billygoat79
    billygoat79 Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I quit Jade Dynasty to come here because it was a HUGE grind here kill 50000 monsters to get 1 item to finish a quest for **** xp ENJOY. I do not want to super level either as that gets boring fast I thing so far the game is right on.
  • carowe27
    carowe27 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    You wanna be high lvl? YOU GOTTA WORK FOR IT!!!! end of story

    close thread.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gustavomesquita
    gustavomesquita Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    carowe27 wrote: »
    You wanna be high lvl? YOU GOTTA WORK FOR IT!!!! end of story

    PvE addicts tends to think like that, all right. Since they rely mostly on grabbing the ultimate gear and sitting their arses In the most important town again until boredom/new content comes up.

    Repeat, etc etc.
    [Add smth cool here]
  • apply1
    apply1 Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Jade dynasty- they give u an esper which is basically a legal bot for grinding, im playing that game for over 2 years, and i didnt reach the cap yet, they made it up to lvl 150, then a reset then up to 150 again but lvling up is 3 times harder, im @ lvl 145 after reset, would be nice if they did that here, cuz me and my wife dont like doing quests 24\7 it will get to a point when we'll go.. meh not worth it
    think bout it
  • dapyx1
    dapyx1 Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    ylanday69 wrote: »
    haha, your wrong... you cannot level cap a new mmo within 2 weeks and expect quality end game, specially in these kind of mmo's. even wow had no end game for months after release...

    Exactly my point, it's no fun to grind months to reach lvl 70 which seems to be the cap in OB. All that is interesting happens at level cap.

    octarone wrote: »
    As much sense as repeating same stuff for several months just to level and "get there". Levels split communities, unlike endgame, where you only improve stats and such (and no
    t so massively). Leveling is like "the work before the grind (endgame) and fun".

    You don't learn anything by staying at a level for 4 days, doing the same stuff just to see a bar at the bottom move up a little. When more than 10% of people quit before level cap means the game is badly designed.

    Exactly, leveling is just a means to learn the game. If you level in 2 weeks, a month, I find it OK. Perfection and competition happens only when you do endgame. And PvE players play to conquer tough instances, kill tough bosses, have best gear. They play for competition.

    I believe you are the only person on this thread who played other games besides asian grinding games.

    No, PWI, S.U.N., BOI and even Aion, aren't good games for western audience when it comes to leveling and content. Think more of WOW, Warhammer, LOTRO, DOD, AOC, Lineage 2, Rift and even ROM and Allods.

    Compare this game, please, with Rift. Can you?
  • dapyx1
    dapyx1 Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    octarone wrote: »
    In the interview long ago the guy clearly said Forsaken World is "all about endgame content" and that they "made a easily reachable level cap for everyone".

    That put my hopes up and I'm going to be in for a huge disappointment, am I not? The 2nd part is already false.


    Seriously? If that is what he said, this is a big disappointment. Endgame content at this moment is Welkin. I borrowed a friend's account (I'm only 35, he's 50+) and played Welkin. If that is endgame content ,which it is at this lvl cap, I better go play other games.

    And all people who like western type MMOS or who like PvE content. If you are only into PvP, it may be OK, though.
  • dapyx1
    dapyx1 Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    xsuicidez wrote: »
    Grind Reliant = people complain spending 5 hours hitting the same mob to gain 20%
    Quest Reliant = people complain there's not enough fighting
    Mixture (FW) = people complain it takes too long to move from place to place

    FW offers so many things other game doesn't. First of all, it has an auto route system, allowing to player to move from npc to npc (for questing) w/o effort. You can literally read manga, watch anime, or even study for your test while your character automatically moves himself. There are also afk activities (fishing, quest, etc) the further allow players to gain exp without much effort. Compared to other games of the same category (Aika, Flyff, etc) the exp rate is amazing. Sure, it might take some time, but grinding in those other games will net you about the same exp/hr while requiring you to constantly click on enemy mob.

    My God, I don't believe it! If you say that autoroute is the best feature FW is going to offer, that is a big fail! Many games offer autoroute via addons. This is good for players too lazy to read the quests and think. I don't call this a feature.

    Leveling from 1 to 30 takes 6-7 hours, but leveling from 30 to 70 is going to take months. And let me put this way: even in WOW you can reach cap in weeks and let's do compare FW with WOW: until lvl 70 WOW do offer lots of content. In this, content from 1 - 60 is very scarce and from 1 - 70 will be scarce too.
  • bunnypirates
    bunnypirates Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dapyx1 wrote: »
    Seriously? If that is what he said, this is a big disappointment. Endgame content at this moment is Welkin. I borrowed a friend's account (I'm only 35, he's 50+) and played Welkin. If that is endgame content ,which it is at this lvl cap, I better go play other games.

    And all people who like western type MMOS or who like PvE content. If you are only into PvP, it may be OK, though.

    This is the closed beta, the game obviously isn't nowhere near the maximum. Honestly if you don't like the PvE this game offers why don't you just quit QQing and continue PvPing or move to a new game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • progus
    progus Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Yeah Dapyx1! Don't be so negative all the time, go play other games if this doesn't not satisfy you. Why does half of the people think this game is finished with all the "end game" stuff, it's in CB4! But I think it already has very neat content :)
  • dapyx1
    dapyx1 Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    This is the closed beta, the game obviously isn't nowhere near the maximum. Honestly if you don't like the PvE this game offers why don't you just quit QQing and continue PvPing or move to a new game.

    Well, I may try to play this and I may try to move over. I didn't make my mind yet. But I tempted to either go play ROM and Allods, either go buy Rift.

    I'm not QQ-ing. If I'm going to play this game, I want it to be better so this is feedback, not rants or QQ.

    I don't simply criticize them, I just say: "try to make it better so you will have much more paying customers than with your other games and do realize that if you say this game is for western audience, western people do have some preferences when it comes to MMORPGs".

    Of course, they may listen to what I and others like me have to say. Or they may not. But is better for their pockets if they do listen.

    Few hundreds euros which I'm going to spend in the time I may play this game (I typically play MMOs for 1-2 years) it's not a big amount of money. But try to multiply that with 10 000, 100 000, 200 000 or even more, potential paying customers who won't play if they don't like the game.

    Let's say that I'm going to use CS. I'm maybe going to pay 250 euros / year to help me with the gear, but this isn't go to make me OP.

    Paying for Rift is much cheaper and Rift does offer what western audience wants.
  • progus
    progus Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dapyx1 wrote: »
    Well, I may try to play this and I may try to move over. I didn't make my mind yet. But I tempted to either go play ROM and Allods, either go buy Rift.

    I'm not QQ-ing. If I'm going to play this game, I want it to be better so this is feedback, not rants or QQ.

    I don't simply criticize them, I just say: "try to make it better so you will have much more paying customers than with your other games and do realize that if you say this game is for western audience, western people do have some preferences when it comes to MMORPGs".

    Of course, they may listen to what I and others like me have to say. Or they may not. But is better for their pockets if they do listen.

    Few hundreds euros which I'm going to spend in the time I may play this game (I typically play MMOs for 1-2 years) it's not a big amount of money. But try to multiply that with 10 000, 100 000, 200 000 or even more, potential paying customers who won't play if they don't like the game.

    Let's say that I'm going to use CS. I'm maybe going to pay 250

    Well I hope you like this game and I haven't either made my mind but I'll give it a shot :)
  • wertoret
    wertoret Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dapyx1 wrote: »
    Well, I may try to play this and I may try to move over. I didn't make my mind yet. But I tempted to either go play ROM and Allods, either go buy Rift.

    I'm not QQ-ing. If I'm going to play this game, I want it to be better so this is feedback, not rants or QQ.

    I don't simply criticize them, I just say: "try to make it better so you will have much more paying customers than with your other games and do realize that if you say this game is for western audience, western people do have some preferences when it comes to MMORPGs".

    Of course, they may listen to what I and others like me have to say. Or they may not. But is better for their pockets if they do listen.

    Few hundreds euros which I'm going to spend in the time I may play this game (I typically play MMOs for 1-2 years) it's not a big amount of money. But try to multiply that with 10 000, 100 000, 200 000 or even more, potential paying customers who won't play if they don't like the game.

    Let's say that I'm going to use CS. I'm maybe going to pay 250

    euro symbol is criminal in these forums, it cuts off everything after it...

    but I get the idea.
    "lol" - Anonymous
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dapyx1
    dapyx1 Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    ylanday69 wrote: »

    you know this game is gunna have end game content issues, so why rush? id rather there be a dungeon i havent got to yet than be waiting for one to be released. theres nuthin worse than rushing to max level as fast as you can just to raid and get geared and then quit and look for a new game, you know how it is. you could just bypass this whole game and go to the next if all you want is to conquer everything right away.

    So you're basically saying that you know endgame content will sux and therefore why rush? Is OK to grind 6 months to lvl 70 because when you reach lvl 70 you'll only have to do 1 or 2 id.iotic instances which you can finish in 20 mins?


    So you'll have 6 nice months of Henrys and GTs. That is fun, indeed. And if you are bored of Henry and GT, you can go grind mobs to help leveling. :D

    Generally speaking, when people do say "western MMO" they mean it takes at most a month to reach endgame. And endgame is where the fun starts. Many, many tough and challenging instances, bosses and raids. And no, this isn't boring, people are competing against each other at endgame. The highest instance in this is Welkin, and it isn't fun at all.

    Asian games lacks content. All is about grinding. This game is, too. If this would be a western game, actual lvl 60 would be lvl 30 and reachable in few days, lol.

    No content, no quests no anything. Even the map is small. Just grind, grind, grind. And don't tell me this is better than Flyff, Aika, PWI, BOI etc, cus it is. Instead prove to me that this is better than ROM or Allods, prove that this is comparable in quality of gameplay to WOW, Lineage 2, DOD, AOC, Warhammer, LOTRO, and why not, Rift. Can you do this?

    But this is still an asian grinding game, not a western style game as advertised.

    I hope I'me wrong and they will double, triple, quadruple the content until OB starts. :D
  • sekkurel
    sekkurel Posts: 46
    edited March 2011
    I just love it how some people consider themselves soooo important that they need to make the game "there way" and if they dont make it that way them and "others" will leave and wont invest a dime

    Hello ? Get off your high horse please

    First off let me show you some statistics
    there are close to 7 billion people on the planet. lets say that 4.5 billion have internet acces in which 2 billion are MMORPG players. WoW has its fair number of players that being 20 million or so and that just the official servers. Anyway i think it all comes down to a few MILLION possible "investors" in FW. Do you think even for a second that you are some hotshot ? or that they will actually DO what you suggest them to ?

    Let me tell you something and this is not just for you this is actually for the whole community. When they decide to make something or to add something to the game they have to present there idea to there "bosses" and if they give the ok thumbs up sign its implemented if not well back to the drawing board. Now the decision of the bosses is based on statistic such as work time work cost overall performance and how many will actually like it. If there actually up to the designers and programmers we would be swimming in new content every week i bet. So yelling on the forum may get them to actually look at your opinion but as long as they dont get a dime out of it i hardly doubt they will ever implement it.

    There aim as i see it now is the middle class of the gaming world. Im talking about people that play games like 3 4 hours a day after they come to work. That i think is there target audience and for that they have to make it somewhat easy but also challenging to keep the players playing and investing. The "veterans" and "hardcore" part would ofc be dissapointed in some aspects but honestly its f2p people....that and the fact that no1 is forcing you to play it or invest cash in it.

    Also another thing in there favor is that the have 6 games yeah 6 games that are up and running and some of them are award winners i think if not at least among the top 5. So using simple logic we assume that they know how to make a good game and by now FW is there best creation as i see it.

    But what do i know right ? Im just another random person on the internet giving his 2 cents....
  • harkened
    harkened Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Alright, why the need for a rather lengthy level cap?

    First, it's letting people settle into a learning curve, so they know how to play their character properly.

    Second, it's a timesink, to give the developers enough time to come up with that new content, you oh-so-love.

    Before you get into comparing this f2p MMO with all these great "western" games, realize the fact that they have had both time and funding to release that great expansive content you enjoy.

    They've been out for years and have had a great deal of planning and time to bring out content people enjoy. More importantly, they have a consistent, profitable cashflow that allows them an excellent staff that can work on providing more to their paying customers. They also have experience and free-rein on their games, PWE is a publisher, not a developer. They can give those developers in China all the feedback players give, but in the end, it's not really up to them to make these changes and expansions to the game they release for free.

    You have people reaching the level cap quick, they won't have enough time to schedule obtaining the patches from China then translating it for people. It's a free service really, and this lengthy level cap buys them the time they need to add new stuff and release for everyone.

    In the end anyway, you're still doing the same things. You'll be using these slightly different skills, to kill the slightly different mobs, who give you slightly different drops, at a slightly different map. It's a simple change of scenery, if you ask me. The trick here is learning to change your perspective. Whether it's level, gear, or gold you're grinding for, it's still the same repetitive, mindless activity that you do to either keep up or beat down people.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bunnypirates
    bunnypirates Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    sekkurel's post's first lines pretty much say what I was thinking.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • sekkurel
    sekkurel Posts: 46
    edited March 2011
    sekkurel's post's first lines pretty much say what I was thinking.
    yey got a fanboy... or girl...
    please be a girl :D
  • bunnypirates
    bunnypirates Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    wthplz.png
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    *CB1 player, herp-a-derp.*
    forsakenworldart.deviantart.comJOIN
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  • dapyx1
    dapyx1 Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    sekkurel wrote: »
    First off let me show you some statistics
    there are close to 7 billion people on the planet. lets say that 4.5 billion have internet acces in which 2 billion are MMORPG players. WoW has its fair number of players that being 20 million or so and that just the official servers. Anyway i think it all comes down to a few MILLION possible "investors" in FW. Do you think even for a second that you are some hotshot ? or that they will actually DO what you suggest them to ?

    Let me tell you something and this is not just for you this is actually for the whole community. When they decide to make something or to add something to the game they have to present there idea to there "bosses" and if they give the ok thumbs up sign its implemented if not well back to the drawing board. Now the decision of the bosses is based on statistic such as work time work cost overall performance and how many will actually like it. If there actually up to the designers and programmers we would be swimming in new content every week i bet. So yelling on the forum may get them to actually look at your opinion but as long as they dont get a dime out of it i hardly doubt they will ever implement it.

    There aim as i see it now is the middle class of the gaming world. Im talking about people that play games like 3 4 hours a day after they come to work. That i think is there target audience and for that they have to make it somewhat easy but also challenging to keep the players playing and investing. The "veterans" and "hardcore" part would ofc be dissapointed in some aspects but honestly its f2p people....that and the fact that no1 is forcing you to play it or invest cash in it.

    Also another thing in there favor is that the have 6 games yeah 6 games that are up and running and some of them are award winners i think if not at least among the top 5. So using simple logic we assume that they know how to make a good game and by now FW is there best creation as i see it.

    But what do i know right ? Im just another random person on the internet giving his 2 cents....

    You are, of course, wrong. Let's say that much less than 1 billion people have internet access. 4.5 billion is science fiction. :D

    Let's say that, generally speaking, the westerners are paying the largest amount of money for playing MMOs. This means EU, US. And we maybe add Israel, Kuwait, the Emirates, Australia, Canada. Those are people who have money and pay.

    WOW has currently 8-9 million of paying customers, which is less than they use to have but is much more than all paying customers of all asian MMOs. Rift has at launch a little more than 1 million paying customers and it seems it will overtake WOW.

    Want to add DDO, Lotro, Lineage 2, EQ2, Eve, Warhammer, AOC, Guildwars and so on, and so on? All with paying customers.

    Imagine that even f2p game Runes of Magic had more players than any PWI game. Maybe more than all PWI games together in the west. But it is a game targeted at western audience, even if it's made by coreeans.

    You say this is targeted at casual players who wants to play 3-4 hrs after they come from work. I say to you, why waste those 3-4 hrs and why can't you play a quality game.

    You say this is f2p. I say to you that so are ROM and Allods.

    I thought this PWI game will be better, I hoped that as advertised, it will feature quality content and will target western audience.

    Until now it seems and it feels like Perfect World with better graphics.
  • sekkurel
    sekkurel Posts: 46
    edited March 2011
    The average number of people in a family can be 3 or 4 and if they have 1 computer with internet acces you have 3 or 4 people WITH internet acces

    You also forget net cafe establishments and so on in which any possible human being has internet access so dont bullsh1t be for that 1 bilion thing ok ?

    Also even IF all other games had around the same number as WoW players or lets just say they have half there more then 100 million players out for FW. Hell even 1 million is more then enough to make your arguement look like a **** in a tornado storm

    Yeah i say its F2P. So if you tell me that those games are also free 2 play then why the hell are you still here ???

    You say its PWI with better graphics. Sorry dude but its made by the same company ofc there will be similarities between its products duh ! Also if you dont like it why dont you just leave ?

    Like i said i trust PWE to deliver a nice game. Not something that will blow every1's mind or something that will go down in history. It would be nice but still they dissapointed me in some occasions so im not THAT optimistic about FW.

    Like i said they have 6 other games that in there time were great and maybe still are playable or even more then that. That shows they know there stuff and people that complain about GRIND in a MMO of ANY kind should get there brain checked cause its the same as complaining about chicken tasting like chicken....
  • ouriel125
    ouriel125 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Some people are so narrow minded. -.-

    Yes, leveling means increasement on your charcter skills and how well you know to play your character, but leveling for 6 months is not a good thing.
    Once you reach the cap and starting doing raids or PvP, you advance your skills and it's where the fun begin.

    @ylanday69 So, if you know that there will be no content, then why play something when it have nothing to offer?

    @sekkurel If it's a game by the same company doesn't need to have similarities. One thing I know for sure is that all their games look the same and have things with different skins.
    Another thing about PWE, they release new games every 6 to 12 months.
    If they were so familiar with that, they wouldn't release that much games and would learn some things, but obviously, they still learnt nothing.
    The more games you have, the harder to control it.
    One more thing about the internet you mentioned with the family, it's still one PC, not 3 or 4!


    Tho., this game is far from being a westernized game.
    The leveling curve is not balanced and I noticed that by the first levels.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jakegold
    jakegold Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    A westernized game DOES NOT mean reatardedly easy leveling, sorry.
  • dapyx1
    dapyx1 Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    jakegold wrote: »
    A westernized game DOES NOT mean reatardedly easy leveling, sorry.

    Call WOW, AOC, EVE, Rift ****. I rest my case.

    ouriel125 wrote: »
    Once you reach the cap and starting doing raids or PvP

    What raids? This game barely has a few bad designed 6 people instances and that's all.
  • fireroseneko
    fireroseneko Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dapyx1 wrote: »
    What raids? This game barely has a few bad designed 6 people instances and that's all.

    This game isn't even finished yet. So a rather trivial point. You have no idea what it may end up in a year, or two years, or three.
  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    dapyx1 wrote: »
    Call WOW, AOC, EVE, Rift ****. I rest my case.




    What raids? This game barely has a few bad designed 6 people instances and that's all.

    and this is why people keep telling you to go back to your precious perfect games >.>
    [SIGPIC]http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=15047437000&dateline=1290559725[/SIGPIC]
    Made by me ;D

    -> I'm no longer in that guild but I'm a bit lazy to change my sig which I made anyways.
  • carowe27
    carowe27 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    lol this is CB max lvl 60...... you complain about lvl 50 gear when obviously this game goes to lvl 80+

    yet again i state to all you wining babies who dont like to grind "i want everything to be easy and i dont want to have to work for anything it should just be given to me."

    GO play private servers and leave the real servers to the adults.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This discussion has been closed.